bauermd

iTrader: (1)

So, as a few of you know I was having some "problems" with my '07 TLS a few weeks ago. Car was acting up heavily after driving for 15-20 minutes. Acted like it was in 4th gear unless I completely laid into the pedal. As mentioned though, would not always do this. I would say 95% of the time if I drove past 15-20 minutes.

Link to previous thread -> https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/problems-accelerating-913709/

I finally got fed up and took it to the dreaded dealership. I went ahead and made the trip to Pohanka Acura out here in VA. I have read GREAT reviews about them so I didnt want to risk anyone else touching the car. Dealership down the road from me now is extremely sketchy and offers to take cash on the side to get the work done.

Anyway... Dropped it off yesterday and they were very friendly. Informed me of the fees for diagnostics upfront and sent me on my way with a '14 TL SH-AWD loaner until they were ready for me. About 24 hours later I get a call from them (today). They could not duplicate the acceleration problem. OFCOURSE! This would be my TL going to pull this sh*t when I want to drop it off with the professionals. Regardless, they came across a few other issues.

-Oil pump leaking BAD (from what they say)
-Timing belt needs to be done
-Tranny fluid is not black anymore but not too bad
-3 O2 sensor codes are thrown
-Gas cap light (like every other '07/'08)
-Front left caliper bolt siezed (Cant get to the front left warped rotor)
-Ebrake needs adjusting
-Needs 4 new tires (ofcourse)

SO... All of this and the original issue I wanted to be corrected is most likely still going to happen.

I went ahead and gave them the go ahead on the Oil pump and all seals to go with it, Timing belt kit and Tranny flush. EDIT - They want 2150$ for all of this. Including tax / diagnostics charge.

I will still have the brake wobble from the warped rotor I can not currently get access to. I replaced the other 3 sides with stoptech pads and rotors. Still have the acceleration problem (Maybe?). If anyone else has had similar services done, what were your experiences?? With performance, driving, things of that nature...

pbook4g5

I think the first thing you should have done with the acceleration problem is replace your APP sensor. It's relatively cheap ($120 I think) and its easy to do yourself. Yes, it could be going bad and could be intermittently bad, at least from everything I've read on these forums.

Next I would go to your O2 sensors like Bukvaman mentioned he did in your other thread, especially if you have codes relating to your sensors stored.

You don't/didn't have a CEL on when you dropped it off?

And with everything else the dealership is doing, you probably won't notice anything other than maybe smoother shifts since they are changing the tranny fluid.

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like the car has just been overall generally neglected. Not sure what to tell you about the orignial issue you were talking about as I dident really understand the way you explained it. Was the trans slipping? The rest of the stuff with the exception of the oil pump is just from lack of routine maintience.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

I will be getting around to ordering this APP sensor as well. I don't make a whole lot, so this service is going to break me a little. Nothing a little time will fix though.

I came to the conclusion I will probably not feel anything different from the service being performed. Just a little peace of mind knowing it inst leaking oil anymore, I have a new timing belt, and fresh fluid in the tranny.

I will let you know how it feels tomorrow!
BTW, this '14 TL SH-AWD is pretty sweet!

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

The trans was not slipping. It just felt as if I had the car in 3rd or 4th when I was taking off from a stop. Extremely slow and sluggish. I thought it might be a tranny problem because it does not happen when the car is cold. But who knows...

The guy who sold me the car actually sold it to me really cheap. Did not mention all 4 rotors were warped, and a rim was bent. I guess that's shame on me for not noticing. Did not provide any service receipts except for an oil change.

pbook4g5

Yeah the timing belt service isn't cheap, especially at a dealership. My oil pump was leaking before I bought my car (I guess).... I think the invoice said it was 163 to replace the seals and put some honda bond (read permatex... like RTV) on it to seal it up.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

I would have taken 163 all day long. He quoted me 1840 for the timing belt and oil pump/seal replacement alone.

pbook4g5

Holy. Shit. I think you just got taken for a ride. Are they replacing your oil pump or just replacing the seals?

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

They are replacing everything related to the seals and with the oil pump. I got quoted from a few dealerships and they were all right at 1750-1900 range. So who knows...

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

Also for future reference, If you prefer bringing your car to a dealership Honda dealers are normaly signifigantly cheaper then Acura.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

Thanks everyone for the information. I will post tomorrow with an update. MY luck, the car will start bogging down again 2 blocks down the road from the dealer.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

If you are not making much, using and independent shop for all repairs is going to be a better idea. The dealership is a guaranteed huge bill and the quality of their work is often much more poor than a good independent Honda / Acura shop.

Jackass

In my area, the Honda dealership is about the same price as an independent. Which of course is about 40-45% lower than the Acura dealership.

No matter, unless you absolutely require/need the loaner, it is minor repairs, warranty work, or getting goodwill, there isn't much reason to use the Acura dealer over the Honda dealer. My local Acura dealer (Jay Wolfe Acura) is fantastic to deal with, but expensive. My local Honda dealer (Lee's Summit Honda) is 10 miles closer to me, just as clean, pretty easy to deal with, and costs quite a bit less for major repairs. The Honda dealer also told me I can bring my own parts if I wanted....especially for any of the Acura specific parts since they would have to order them from Jay Wolfe anyways.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

So I picked the car up today from Pohanka Acura. Got a new timing belt kit/oil pump and all seals associated/transmission flush.

Mechanic (in two days) was not able to replicate the power-loss. Ofcourse. So at this point I am out 2,150$ and the problem to my knowledge is still there.

I was not even 15 minutes down the road the this phantom power loss came back!

No matter how much gas I give the car, it will not change ANY bit the acceleration of the car. It just feels like its in a constant even acceleration in 5th gear from a stop. Until I am at the point to where the peddle is to the floor and the car downshifts and continutes the problem in the lower gear.

This is my theory. If I am taking off from a light, the automatic transmission should be in 1st gear. Why is it I have HORRIBLE acceleration until I floor it to where it downshifts. Then it hit me, why is my car able to downshift if I am at a DEAD stop just starting to move from a light. My transmission must be in a higher gear and not taking off in first.

What are your thoughts guys?? Could my 5AT be going out? I have no CELS related.

pbook4g5

Yeah sounds like you've identified at least a major part of your issue. Have you done a 3x3 fluid drain and refill?

Does it shift hard or is it clunky any other time?

Can you put your car into sportshift mode and manually put it in first when you come to a stop?

Alexns05

Think this is heat soak that has been talked about on here plenty of times. Just search for that phrase

pbook4g5

Heat soak does not cause misfires on an engine that runs correctly. If the car is running lean heatsoak could potentially cause misfires, but even then... long stretch.

I don't think this problem is related to heat soak. Heat soak is a general power degradation across the powerband when the engine is really, really hot.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

Transmission fluid has been changed every 20-25k miles. Car shifts completely fine, though. There is no hard shifting. If I use sport mode, the car will be in first, and not feel near as slow. Just really odd as this is not a 100% of the time kind of issue and wont happen when cold.

All of this started happening after a trip to Acura for an oil change. Different dealership from where I just had it serviced for timing belt/oil pump/tranny flush.

I thought it might be heat soak as well, but sometime the problem will start happening, and then 10-15 minutes later go away for a few minutes then come back.

pbook4g5

Definitely sounds transmission related. Since I have no experience with the AT, I'll let someone else chime in on what it could be.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

Acura data logged it for over 45 miles and did not notice 1 thing out of the ordinary. Go figure, right? I at least thought there would be some kind of CEL associated with a transmission going. Or at least some hard shifting or something of that nature.

On the brighter side, I got a new timing belt kit and new oil pump and seals!

YeuEmMaiMai

OK

if your caliper bolt has seized you can still remove the caliper

1. loosen lugs
2. jack car up
3. remove wheel
4. remove bolts that hold caliper onto caliper pin (#13) (#11 and #17 will remain on bracket)
5. remove caliper from bracket and hang on your spring
6. remove 2 bolts that hold caliper bracket to hub (#18)



7. Since Acura/Honda does not sell the caliper bracket separate from the caliper and they do not recommend reusing a bracket where a pin has seized, you will have to replace the caliper assembly (#7,8)

YeuEmMaiMai

no not really I had my CLS trans replaced and it never threw a CEL, the D5 light however blinked while going to work one day but ever returned after that. Acura stated Internal Transmission Fault and replaced it under warranty.

Instead of paying Acura to find it, buy a code reader like this one



and use it to monitor the engine and you should be able to determine what is going on and then you can use that information to troubleshoot

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

This is good information. It will buy me a few months until I can afford to get a new caliper on the left side. I will try it out and let you know how it goes on my next free day.

Again, thanks everyone for the advice and pointers. Currently the car is BACK at Pohanka Acura for another round of diag with no charge. Got a '14 TSX this time for a loaner. Too bad the AWD TL wasnt available. Although I am getting almost double toe MPG in the TSX.

I also noticed it will almost immediately happen when im driving to work with the A/C on, and I get stuck in traffic off I-95. Not sure what the two have in common. I am starting to lean towards some bad O2 sensors, but we will see.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

Now that I am looking at those drawings, I think #13 is the bolt that is seized. I normally only take off 2 bolts when changing my rotors/pads. Those seem to be the 2 bolts I remove. The bottom one is most likely cross threaded from previous owner which is why its not moving. I may be wrong, just looks to be from the drawing.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

Car is ready to be picked up. They are saying the only thing they can come up with after a week is bank 1 sensor 2 is showing bad. Which O2 sensor is this?

YeuEmMaiMai

if that bolt is stuck use a breaker bar on it. it will come loose. and remember one side of the car is backwards compared to the other.. driver side you push up to loosen and passenger side you pull down to loosen. hit it with some PB blaster

sensor 2 is behind the cat and I believe firewall side of car

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

I thought secondary O2's wouldn't cause performance issues. Although I am always learning so I could be wrong.

pbook4g5

Secondary O2 sensors provide data to the ECU, and based on that data, the ECU could pull or advance timing, add/pull fuel, etc.

Secondary o2 sensors can definitely cause performance issues.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

So for whoever has read this thread, here is another loop in the situation.

If it is cooler outside (under 70) the engine light will go off when I start the car and the car will run completely fine. Like this whole week (since im back on dayshift) I have to leave the house by 4:30 and its generally 60-63 outside. The car runs like champ. Pulls completely fine like I remember it doing.

When I get off its generally in the upper 70's or mid 80's and the engine light comes back on almost immediately and the car after 15 minutes or so goes back to running extremely sluggish like its stuck in a high gear (but its not).

Kind of odd to myself, but is there any sensors that would be effected by a cooler, denser air? Maybe O2 like stated?

If this is a stupid question please let em know because i'm always learning. Thanks guys!

pbook4g5

I haven't gotten an OBD II reader yet so I can read my MAP sensor values, but thats probably my next step. My mechanic suggested it next, although I haven't changed any of my O2 sensors, either.

Anyone care to chime in on MAP sensor possibility?

BukvaMan

secondary o2 sensors fixed my problem which had the exact same behavior like you explained. Trust me on that, just change them out and report back. They are not even that expensive. I changed out everything else before i got to them as i was also thinking that they didnt have anything to do with fuel trim and that they were only there for emission purposes but i was so wrong !!

DMZ

Did you have he car checked out by an independent mechanic BEFORE you bought it? Probably not.

.
.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

I have had the car since 51,000 Miles and the car is approaching 90,000 now. Other then the warped rotors the car has been completely fine to me. I had it checked 2 times from 2 different places prior to purchasing. Just normal wear and tear I suppose. Timing belt was replaced recently along with the oil pump and seals.

I am waiting onmy helicoil kit to get that warped rotor replaced.


I had Acura order me 2 new sensors for the cats so we will see what happens. Waiting on them to arrive.

pbook4g5

So you ordered the two downstream (after the cat) sensors?

That'll be interesting to see if it fixes the issue. At this point, I wouldn't mind replacing all four PLUS the MAP sensor, but thats money I probably don't want to spend.

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

I havnt paid for the Sensors from them, but they want 114 each. I seen at autozone for 65 each. Should I stick with acura or go the cheaper route?

pbook4g5

http://www.acuraexpressparts.com/aut...converter-scat

There are the list prices... $44 and $76 for the secondary ones. If the autozone ones were Bosch or something reputable, I'd go with those, too.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean the difference between primary bank and secondary bank, or downstream o2? the downstream o2s are for catalyst efficiency.

You can safely run with a bad or missing secondary (i.e. DOWNSTREAM or POSTCAT) O2 sensor forever and ever and ever.

It has no feedback for tuning or ignition advance whatsoever. The primary pre-cat sensor provides feedback for the ecu and can cause performance issues.

BukvaMan

I would not be so sure !!

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

if you think your car might be starting in a high gear, then why dont you try manual mode to see if theres a difference?

bauermd

iTrader: (1)

If I switch the car to manual mode it will run just a little bit better compared.

The car will have even acceleration no matter how far the pedal is down, until I am flooring it and then it downshifts. At points during acceleration I can feel the car pick up for a split second and stop kiind of like its not getting fuel, then for a split second it gets the correct amount. If that makes any sense.

As mentioned this wont happen in the morning(as far as ive noticed). If I am driving home in the evening and I turn on the A/C it happens instantly. Then it will not go away even if I turn the A/C off.

Wish someone was in the area to take on a ride along to show