Ok, was replacing timing belt and water pump and when I pulled the crank pulley off the woodruff key got stuck in it. I didn't notice this until after I rotated the cams to their timing marks. The crank encounters resistance at the two points on this picture when moved by hand now. How do I set the cams and crank back in time so I can check for damage and do a compression test. 2008 type s 5at. Currently have the plugs out to move the crank freely.

 

Don't know why pics inserted in the middle of my post :/

 

Just curious, did you plan on adjusting the valves as part of this TB service?

 

I fixed the post for you.

You certainly are not the first person to do this, there are a few threads on odyclub and pilot forums that have good info:

https://www.piloteers.org/threads/am...-issue.165355/

You can verify crank position by putting a wooden dowel in the #1 cyl via spark plug hole and make sure it's at TDC.

EDIT: tag removed

 

I did the valve adjustment and valve cover gaskets right before I blundered into this situation 🤣

 

Thank you for this link, I'm heading over to read now. Since the crank is encountering resistance at those two points do I move the cams to allow the crank to move too TDC? I do not want to power through the resistance and I also have an inspection camera that *should* work to tell me if the front left cylinder is at TDC. I know these engines are different as the cam indexing is on the front head which is cylinders 4-6

 

Well, if you don't mind doing the valve adjustment again, you can 'entertain the thought' of the process I outlined in post #25 of timbo53's thread on the 2G TL side?
It will get you out of this mess; however, it will also cost you a 'little more time'?

 

I'll head over there and look into it, I'm not afraid of putting more time into it also I feel I'm competent enough to manage most things. One way or another I need to get this back in time and where she sits I can't move the crank without binding.

 

After loosening the cam holder bolts will I need to readjust the valves? And how much would I loosen those bolts to prevent the pistons from hitting valves when hand turning the crank?

 

Looking at the 07-08 TL Helms, it does not say, per se, that you HAVE to adjust the valves after loosening the rocker shaft bolts, at least that I can find.
Though in step #6 below in the process headlined, it states to 'loosen the valve adjusting screws'.
If one were to do that then a valve adjustment would be necessary, obviously.
Therefore, if you loosen the rocker shaft bolts just enough to let the valve springs raise the valves up out of the way, you would have to keep an eye on things. As long as you don't remove the rocker arm assembly, the rocker shaft mounting bolts will keep the rocker arms on the shafts.
Once you find that the shafts have been loosened enough to adequately raise the valves, then the camshafts can be turned to their proper TDC timing mark alignment(s).
Then you would gently turn the crankshaft to its proper TDC alignment on the oil pump.
After those steps have been completed, then you can start to retighten the rocker bolts, as indicated in Step #9.
You will have a lot going on, so keep an eye out for maintaining TDC on the camshafts, making sure the rocker arms are properly positioned on the valve stems and not binding on the valves. This can be made easier by removing the spark plugs. Torque the rocker shaft bolts to the indicated spec once everything looks good to you.
Then you can go forward with now reattempting to install the TB, since you put everything back in time at TDC.

When I did mine, I had not already adjusted the valves yet, because I wanted to get the bigger job of replacing the TB done & over with.
It's entirely up to you as to whether or not to readjust the valves.
Theoretically, once you follow step #9's instruction and there is no binding, perhaps a valve adjustment would not be necessary, though for 'piece of mind', at least recheck them with the feeler gauge. That process would rotate the crankshaft enough to make evident anything going forward before reassembly and ultimately restarting the car, at least in my mind. Your call!

 

Seems like that's my next endeavor, fingers crossed I didn't damage anything when rotating by hand. I've actually got some great machine shops in my small heartland town so if it comes down to it I can have the head redone and new valves installed. I really hope that's not necessary but we will find out. When setting time from scratch how do I know if I'm on the intake or exhaust stroke? Also the cam gears are indexed on the front pulley do I go by the number 4 cylinder or number 1 on the rear head.

I just want to also say thank you to this community, incredibly helpful and intelligent responses. Makes this whole fiasco way easier.

 

First, untighten the rocker shaft bolts (following the numbered sequence on the diagram above) one head at a time, enough to have the valve springs naturally lift the valves up & out of the way of the pistons across each head.

As you proceed with this, you will be able to observe how far you'll have to go. Once you are satisfied, try and move the camshafts (clockwise) to their respective 'timing marks' correlating with the marks on the 'A' pulley and 'B' head backing plate as shown below.

Front head use #1 to get to TDC.
Rear head should look something like the pic below?
You want to match the yellow arrow on the rear camshaft to the yellow arrow area on the rear backing plate.


Once you get the camshafts in their proper alignment place, as shown above, then you go to the crankshaft timing belt drive pulley, making sure the 'key' is in place between the crankshaft & TB drive pulley.
Gently turn the crankshaft clockwise until the pulley timing mark 'A' aligns with the 'B' mark on the oil pump housing as shown below.

Everything, front and rear camshafts & crankshaft, should be in time at TDC.

Now you can begin to slowly retighten the front & rear head rocker shaft bolts, one head at a time, in the numbered sequence in step #9 previously shown above.
This will lower the rocker arms against the valves to their respective height as each respective rocker shaft tightens down.

At this point, you can then go back to reinstalling the TB, all the while trying to keep all the timing marks in alignment.

P.S. Some may argue that this is a lot of overkill; however, when one finds themselves, like I did, in this particular position and does not know how 'wacked' out of timing the pullies are, IMHO, it's best to FULL STOP, not force anything, as timbo53 did and potentially bend valves. YMMV
Good Luck!