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wow sorry to hear all the news man, i hope it all turns out well asap. i'm a little confused on how the grounds hurt the car though. a lot of people do a big 3 upgrade (including myself) and upgrade a lot of the grounds and i don't see how it could have started all the electrical issues, unless somehow the connection wasn't good, or insulated enough, and something shorted out. any thoughts?
If you have a bad or non-existent ground, the energy will find *something*. And following the path of least resistance, if that happens to be a wire back to the ECU . Or if it follows a path back to another electrically driven component (fan, compressor, ???) that isn't diode protected or fused, .
Friggin' electricity man! It's witchcraft I tells ya'.
There was a Puzzler a couple weeks ago on Car Talk that was sort of similar. In that instance, the car kept breaking the pull-cable on the cable operated clutch pedal. The root of the problem was a missing ground strap from the engine block. The electricity in the car found it's own ground path, through the clutch cable, and over a period of time would corrode the cable due to nerdy science reasons.
There was a Puzzler a couple weeks ago on Car Talk that was sort of similar. In that instance, the car kept breaking the pull-cable on the cable operated clutch pedal. The root of the problem was a missing ground strap from the engine block. The electricity in the car found it's own ground path, through the clutch cable, and over a period of time would corrode the cable due to nerdy science reasons.
RAY: A guy came into the shop with his Volvo on the back of a tow truck. He says the clutch cable has broken five times in the last five months. I asked what happened, and he said, "I had a new clutch put in six months ago. When they put the new clutch in, they advised me to put a new cable in. I said go ahead. A month later they closed up shop and headed for some unknown Pacific Island when the clutch cable breaks."
The guy puts a new clutch cable in, thinking the one that the shop put in was defective. A month later that cable breaks. Another month goes by and that cable breaks. By this time, he says, "I was at my wit's end. I figured the clutch had to be defective, so I brought it to another shop and, what? They install a brand-new clutch. And, of course, what? A new clutch cable.”
A month later the cable breaks again. I asked him under what circumstances it breaks.
He says, "I start the car, I go to drive it away, I step on the clutch or I go to shift it into gear. I get to the corner, for example, and I shift into neutral. I wait for the light to turn green. I step on the clutch and the cable breaks."
I said, "Oh, my God." I asked him if the car starts now.
He said, "I don't even bother to start it. Since the cable was broken, what was the sense?"
I say to him, "I bet it won't start." He said, "Why shouldn't it start? It started yesterday; it has nothing to do with the clutch."
Anyway, we go out to the car and turn the key: dead. He asks, "What does that have to do with my clutch cable breaking?" I say…
TOM: Everything.
What’s wrong with the Volvo?
Originally Posted by Answer
RAY: Well, what had happened was when the original guys put the clutch in, they failed to put in a little tiny piece of wire that goes from the engine block to the body of the car. It's the conductive path for electricity that goes from the battery to the starter motor, through the block, through the body of the car and ultimately back to the battery.
In the absence of this cable, the electricity must find a new conductive path to get from the battery, through the starter and back to the battery. Because this cable is missing and there is no other conductive path, it uses the clutch cable, and it burns it up. It makes it brittle. The cable breaks and then it won't start.
We put in a new clutch cable and a 25-cent piece of wire, for which we charged him $80, and he was on his way. Who's our winner this week?
There are 3 important ground cables in the TL that I know of, maybe more. From battery negative terminal to chassis (short cable, insulated, black), one near engine side mount (bare wire) and another near tranny mount (also bare wire). As the cables and connectors (bolts, washers, etc.) corrode over time you get contact resistance which results in heat and a voltage drop, degrading the ground connection which needs to be low impedance. Replace cables and connecting bolts as needed, and clean both battery terminals (both the posts and cable connectors). Beyond that be sure to visually inspect all wiring under the hood for any shorts/melted wires. Sometimes we forget to secure a wire back after working on the car - or the plastic holder simply breaks - and if the wire makes contact with other items the insulation can melt and you can get an electrical short or arc, reaking havoc.
So what would happen if said person that owned car previous to me...say,
used speaker grade thin copper strand wire (likely an ebay grounding kit, mind you, still 1 or 2awg) to
REPLACE THE GROUNDS IN THE CAR AT THESE LOCATIONS...
rather than adding those to the existing grounds?
Would that potentially cause new owner of said vehicle some headaches?
Especially ones that might present themselves during a period where the car is being pushed hard during prolonged periods for the sake of datalogging?
What do you mean grounds were replaced? Did they remove the OEM ground cables, replace those cables with that speaker wire, or left OEM cables and added more ground points with the speaker wire?
What do you mean grounds were replaced? Did they remove the OEM ground cables, replace those cables with that speaker wire, or left OEM cables and added more ground points with the speaker wire?
Exactly what I said...they were not added in addition to OEM grounds. The guy removed the oem grounds and put these shitty quality speaker wire thin strand wire in PLACE OF the oem grounds...side mount ground, battery ground, and transmission bare ground were ALL this shitty cable instead of oem.
Hence the slow deterioration and finally once they failed...
car was having trouble starting and battery keeping charged...probably a month ago...take car for a ride, datalog and drive hard for 20 minutes...bam...fried ac compressor...
Just took some...
both were blue originally...when new ecu was put in, the one started arcing/smoking and turned black. That was the one to the transmission...should have been bare wire...
I still have one from engine to side mount area...I ordered the oem one, but it hasn't gotten here yet.
i was picturing something else, but i guess if you replace the oem wire completely that's where it goes south. i have something similar to what you showed (i used my leftover 4ga amp ground wire - 100% OFC) but i added it to my oem wires like some other Big 3 write ups i found on the forum.
Conceptually, it's not bad, so don't write it off completely J. it was just poorly implemented. i.e. in this case, the previous owner used cheap aluminum wire. If he were to have used decent copper wire or even CCA (Copper clad aluminum), it would have not been bad.
Poor quality components + good idea (Big 3 upgrade) = poor results.
thoiboi, that's what i was thinking, i think it was just messed up in the type of wire used but overall that should work for upgrading the grounding system. but i do think it's better to leave the oem wires there and also to place them in the correct order (i think i researched a while back put the larger wire on the bottom?). i saw the pics above and i was like damn that looks like mine! haha but i used high quality grounding wire in addition to oem
^^ yea that's why i was confused, i bought high quality OFC and all of my wiring is silver...just because it's silver doesn't mean it's aluminum. i know because i did the same ground upgrades myself and i tinned all the ends to be able to crimp them together. my only difference is i used it in addition to oem, but honestly i don't think the wires by themselves would have done what happened here to J...there may be a bigger issue
Yes guys but none of this should replace your oem quality thick strand (hard to bend) copper grounding.
If the one hadn't started smoking and melting, my buddy might not have even known to look for the issue...he said new ECU in...car still won't start. Then he said..."what have you touched under hood"...I was like, derp vavle adjust...
NOPE..."upgraded" ground wires. Which makes me wonder just how upgraded the RDX tires really are.
Get all that wire out of your car and go OEM. I've always been skeptical of aftermarket grounding systems. Yes they can improve the ground in theory, but they can also change/introduce new paths to ground not accounted for in the OEM design, and if the OEM points are compromised or poor connection weird things can happen. Also check your alternator and its connectors make sure all is well. After this I'd give hondata another go.
but I agree, Ivo...and thank you for pointing me in that direction...you were spot on with your analysis.
Where is your side mount grounded to in your car...since we have the same motor mounts? I ordered that OEM one.
Also, new alternator, new starter, new grounds, new ecu, new ac compressor all going in.
I also already decided not to return flashpro...I'm giving it another shot...the car feels like a sluggish pig in comparison now...especially with heatsoak...and the rev bump is back. Been emailing with Dom.
Thanks again for the push. Now if only hondata would reply to me about unlocking my stupid flashpro from the original ECU that I can't plug in for them to unlock now...
06-28-2016, 10:45 AM
. Or if it follows a path back to another electrically driven component (fan, compressor, ???) that isn't diode protected or fused, 
Pretty much. I started writing it out but figured there might only be one other person, that isn't me, who would find it remotely interesting.
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