UR Crank Pulley info 3G Garage #A-098
#241
Burning Brakes
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=pulley+dyno
Engine RPM
Baseline..........Final.........Gain
HP 180.73.......191.68.....10.95
TQ 150.77.......163.95.....13.18
Engine RPM Dyno:
Engine Speed:
Baseline..........Final.........Gain
HP 180.73......194.14......13.41
TQ 150.77......163.95......13.18
Engine Speed Dyno:
Also here's another from a TSX who got tons of low end torque from the pulleys:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=43
Engine RPM
Baseline..........Final.........Gain
HP 180.73.......191.68.....10.95
TQ 150.77.......163.95.....13.18
Engine RPM Dyno:
Engine Speed:
Baseline..........Final.........Gain
HP 180.73......194.14......13.41
TQ 150.77......163.95......13.18
Engine Speed Dyno:
Also here's another from a TSX who got tons of low end torque from the pulleys:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=43
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Now that your doomsday theories have been disproved please leave the Acura forums. Oh and just FYI we just installed a UR Ultra Sc pulley on a 3.5L Maxima and the guy loved it.
#242
Burning Brakes
Sorry this is off topic but you clearly don't know much about running your own business.
You would collapse if you knew how much most retailers mark up. I'm guessing 20% profit isn't net, but just the outright made on the part. Think about all of the other expenses involved.
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
#243
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (4)
I had some free time so I decided to do some searches:
"I have the UR lightweight crank, power steering and HBP pulley on my S/C'd CLS-6 and have had no issues, in their regards to performance. My blower has 60K on it so far, 105K on the car. No particular harmonics or vibrations have been noticed."
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/ur-pulley-lightened-pulley-boosted-applications-719204/
"I installed my ur pulley and drove my car across country! Did it in 48 hours...40 hours driving! Good gas mileage, more power"
"200,000 miles w/pulley on my '00 TL, 45,000 miles w/pulley on my 03 CLS, NO PROBLEMS"
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/ur-pulley-update-490770/
There are endless threads like this.
"I have the UR lightweight crank, power steering and HBP pulley on my S/C'd CLS-6 and have had no issues, in their regards to performance. My blower has 60K on it so far, 105K on the car. No particular harmonics or vibrations have been noticed."
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/ur-pulley-lightened-pulley-boosted-applications-719204/
"I installed my ur pulley and drove my car across country! Did it in 48 hours...40 hours driving! Good gas mileage, more power"
"200,000 miles w/pulley on my '00 TL, 45,000 miles w/pulley on my 03 CLS, NO PROBLEMS"
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/ur-pulley-update-490770/
There are endless threads like this.
#244
Burning Brakes
I had some free time so I decided to do some searches:
"I have the UR lightweight crank, power steering and HBP pulley on my S/C'd CLS-6 and have had no issues, in their regards to performance. My blower has 60K on it so far, 105K on the car. No particular harmonics or vibrations have been noticed."
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719204
"I installed my ur pulley and drove my car across country! Did it in 48 hours...40 hours driving! Good gas mileage, more power"
"200,000 miles w/pulley on my '00 TL, 45,000 miles w/pulley on my 03 CLS, NO PROBLEMS"
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490770
There are endless threads like this.
"I have the UR lightweight crank, power steering and HBP pulley on my S/C'd CLS-6 and have had no issues, in their regards to performance. My blower has 60K on it so far, 105K on the car. No particular harmonics or vibrations have been noticed."
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719204
"I installed my ur pulley and drove my car across country! Did it in 48 hours...40 hours driving! Good gas mileage, more power"
"200,000 miles w/pulley on my '00 TL, 45,000 miles w/pulley on my 03 CLS, NO PROBLEMS"
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490770
There are endless threads like this.
Originally Posted by Dave_B
There are hundreds of cases of Nissan VQs living with UR and lightened pulleys as well including my old VQ30 that lasted 30K miles and 40 1/4 mile passes with one.
#245
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
This is getting out of hand and while a health debate is good.. this seems to be going nowhere.. there's no need to bash each other. This is an open community and everyone has a equal voice. I don't think Dave_B has turned anyone off of the UR Pulley nor has anyone made a new argument to turn someone on to it.. almost everyone who has installed it has done their own research & can educate themselves without bias. The chances of the UR Pulley failing is almost negligible. I don't believe UR's stance is that their pulley is more reliable than the OE pulley so I don't see the problem. It's an inherent risk. Until someone pulls the crank, rods & pistons of J or VQ series with considerable damage.. We should put this debate to rest.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#246
practicing nihilist
You morphed your rehtoric and technical acumen regarding the elastomer ring in stock pulley's (which, at first, was informative) in to a declaration that engines will fail with this shoddy, ring-free aluminum UDP. Look back and 3 new tuners have decided against this mod after your ramblings. You could have done it in a much more gentlemanly fashion. Instead, your biblical, link infused sermons chose to reduce Excelerate to a company line towing idiot.
I've seen this scenario many times before on this site: this is just the first of many e-battles you'll be involved in and I'm sure if I searched some of your other forums I'd see the same trend. Ever heard catch more flies with honey? You can't come on an ram a philosophy down a groups throat that is happy with the product and believes it to be a quality part.
Ya know, a CAI is just a big noise maker but people like the way it sounds and feels - butt dyno effect. I bet you have one...c'mon, don't lie.
I've seen this scenario many times before on this site: this is just the first of many e-battles you'll be involved in and I'm sure if I searched some of your other forums I'd see the same trend. Ever heard catch more flies with honey? You can't come on an ram a philosophy down a groups throat that is happy with the product and believes it to be a quality part.
Ya know, a CAI is just a big noise maker but people like the way it sounds and feels - butt dyno effect. I bet you have one...c'mon, don't lie.
#247
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (4)
As I said earlier, threads I found with dyno numbers but no graphs because they are from 2002. I didn't post because I knew you would automatically dismiss them. You want use to believe every word you say, but you just find a way to shoot everything we say down. Twist it into your own little beliefs.
#248
Burning Brakes
I agree, I'm pretty passionate about cars. Over my 15+ years of wrenching, modifying, and racing cars, I've learned that a lot of aftermarket parts are junk and/or don't work as advertized. Everyone thinks they can outwit the automakers by removing or improving on a part or system because it looks weird, restrictive, heavy, whatever. I've learned that looks can be deceiving and you really need to research and understand why something is designed the way it is before you start screwing with it. Also, over the years I bought into the hype and stellar reviews of certain aftermarket parts only to be let down when I actually put them to real performance tests. I guess I don't want people making the same mistakes I've made buying into the hype. I demand a lot of supporting data before I believe that a part works as advertized. Call me crazy.
#249
practicing nihilist
You've disproven nothing and nor can tell me to go anywhere. I haven't violated any rules and you're not moderator. I'm sorry you find it offensive that someone has finally questioned this mod you strongly support. Welcome to the world of debate. As for that Maxima owner, there's sucker born.....you know the rest.
#250
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
#252
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I thought the point of this thread was to hear feedback from people that have it and want to learn more about the UR Pulley.. and post pics of install, etc..
#253
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Ohhh ya got me
Your first link doesn't have a single dyno plot. Your second link shows a TSX gaining an average of 4whp/4wtq across the powerband which even if that gain were legit, wouldn't make a squat of difference in the 1/4. There's only a before and after dyno which are spread across 3 months time. You really need at least 2 (if not 3) before runs and the same for the after modification runs. I also need to know correction factors because the higher the CF, the more skewed the data. Surely you know that motors don't dyno the same number everytime on back to back dynos. Usually you'll see a 3 to 5whp difference between back to back runs with no changes to the car. On turbo cars you could be looking at up near 20whp difference between runs. You could easily take the worst run and compare to the best run and claim waving your magic wand added 5whp.
You've disproven nothing and nor can tell me to go anywhere. I haven't violated any rules and you're not moderator. I'm sorry you find it offensive that someone has finally questioned this mod you strongly support. Welcome to the world of debate. As for that Maxima owner, there's sucker born.....you know the rest.
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
You've disproven nothing and nor can tell me to go anywhere. I haven't violated any rules and you're not moderator. I'm sorry you find it offensive that someone has finally questioned this mod you strongly support. Welcome to the world of debate. As for that Maxima owner, there's sucker born.....you know the rest.
Do you seriously think you are some sort of pioneer? An internet engineer like yourself pops up every month. We've gone over this hundreds of times. What I really can't understand is why a Nissan/Infiniti "expert"
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#254
Burning Brakes
Says the person that bases his whole argument and justification on what UR tells him. Yeah I got it. The fact that I'm a Nissan "expert" has nothing to do with this. What difference does it make. I've also owned and modified F-Bodies, Stangs, Hondas, and Subarus. I guess that means I'm an expert of those cars as well.
#255
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Wow, lots of animosity here. Let me preface this by saying Dave isn't trying to start any trouble here, nor trying to be the "grim reaper" but doing people a favor by warning them of the possibility, however slight that may be, that the pulley could in fact fail. He's correct in his assertation that the J/VQ engine designs are not all that different and he's far from being a TL basher, if that's what anyone thinks.
Personally, I have the stock diameter UR pulley on my car and I completely understand the potential risks associated with the mod. That's why I periodically give it a good visual inspection, as well as make sure it's torqued to spec. So far, so good. I also know that the "huge gains" are a crock, but I don't mind paying a couple hundred bucks for a couple HP. The threads of people installing one and then coming on here raving about how much harder the car pulls are good for a laugh; it's almost like a shared delusion.
Think about it. A stock 6MT TL makes 258 hp crank and let's say an average of 222 whp, which is highly efficient. That means only 36 hp is being consumed by the drivetrain, including the transmission and the front wheels and tires at what, around 45-50 lbs per wheel and tire? Does anyone honestly think shaving 5lbs off the crank pulley is going to free up a serious chunk of that 36 hp? In theory, you could just burn 2.5 lbs of tread off each front tire (yes, tires lose weight as they wear) and net the same result. The only difference in lightening the pulley is quicker revving in neutral.
As far as the Mag Moss Act, he is 100% correct in that any car manuafacturer's legal team would absolutely bury a plaintiff trying to reap restitution if said plaintiff's engine suffered ANY premature lower end failure and had an aftermarket pulley installed. People throw around the MMA like's it's some wonderful security blanket, but whatever Acura corporate deems "abnormal" you're screwed for the time being. And if you've thrown a bearing with the pulley installed, don't waste your money on an attorney.
Personally, I have the stock diameter UR pulley on my car and I completely understand the potential risks associated with the mod. That's why I periodically give it a good visual inspection, as well as make sure it's torqued to spec. So far, so good. I also know that the "huge gains" are a crock, but I don't mind paying a couple hundred bucks for a couple HP. The threads of people installing one and then coming on here raving about how much harder the car pulls are good for a laugh; it's almost like a shared delusion.
Think about it. A stock 6MT TL makes 258 hp crank and let's say an average of 222 whp, which is highly efficient. That means only 36 hp is being consumed by the drivetrain, including the transmission and the front wheels and tires at what, around 45-50 lbs per wheel and tire? Does anyone honestly think shaving 5lbs off the crank pulley is going to free up a serious chunk of that 36 hp? In theory, you could just burn 2.5 lbs of tread off each front tire (yes, tires lose weight as they wear) and net the same result. The only difference in lightening the pulley is quicker revving in neutral.
As far as the Mag Moss Act, he is 100% correct in that any car manuafacturer's legal team would absolutely bury a plaintiff trying to reap restitution if said plaintiff's engine suffered ANY premature lower end failure and had an aftermarket pulley installed. People throw around the MMA like's it's some wonderful security blanket, but whatever Acura corporate deems "abnormal" you're screwed for the time being. And if you've thrown a bearing with the pulley installed, don't waste your money on an attorney.
#256
Auto Industry Markup Allowance
Sorry this is off topic but you clearly don't know much about running your own business.
You would collapse if you knew how much most retailers mark up. I'm guessing 20% profit isn't net, but just the outright made on the part. Think about all of the other expenses involved.
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
Knowing that, if one of our vendors has a 20% markup, he is doing exceeding well... some just may not realize that since the information I am sharing with my fellow Acura friends is not readily known.
#257
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Just to put things in perspective, the Big 3 typically will not allow a total markup in excess of 15.3% from their suppliers. This total markup includes profit, selling, general & admin expenses, and end item scrap.
Knowing that, if one of our vendors has a 20% markup, he is doing exceeding well... some just may not realize that since the information I am sharing with my fellow Acura friends is not readily known.
Knowing that, if one of our vendors has a 20% markup, he is doing exceeding well... some just may not realize that since the information I am sharing with my fellow Acura friends is not readily known.
Anyways, this entire past few days of ramblings are non sequitur and this thread has quickly become not what it was proposed to be.
#258
Safety Car
#259
Appreciation
Wow, lots of animosity here. Let me preface this by saying Dave isn't trying to start any trouble here, nor trying to be the "grim reaper" but doing people a favor by warning them of the possibility, however slight that may be, that the pulley could in fact fail. He's correct in his assertation that the J/VQ engine designs are not all that different and he's far from being a TL basher, if that's what anyone thinks.
Personally, I have the stock diameter UR pulley on my car and I completely understand the potential risks associated with the mod. That's why I periodically give it a good visual inspection, as well as make sure it's torqued to spec. So far, so good. I also know that the "huge gains" are a crock, but I don't mind paying a couple hundred bucks for a couple HP. The threads of people installing one and then coming on here raving about how much harder the car pulls are good for a laugh; it's almost like a shared delusion.
Think about it. A stock 6MT TL makes 258 hp crank and let's say an average of 222 whp, which is highly efficient. That means only 36 hp is being consumed by the drivetrain, including the transmission and the front wheels and tires at what, around 45-50 lbs per wheel and tire? Does anyone honestly think shaving 5lbs off the crank pulley is going to free up a serious chunk of that 36 hp? In theory, you could just burn 2.5 lbs of tread off each front tire (yes, tires lose weight as they wear) and net the same result. The only difference in lightening the pulley is quicker revving in neutral.
As far as the Mag Moss Act, he is 100% correct in that any car manuafacturer's legal team would absolutely bury a plaintiff trying to reap restitution if said plaintiff's engine suffered ANY premature lower end failure and had an aftermarket pulley installed. People throw around the MMA like's it's some wonderful security blanket, but whatever Acura corporate deems "abnormal" you're screwed for the time being. And if you've thrown a bearing with the pulley installed, don't waste your money on an attorney.
Personally, I have the stock diameter UR pulley on my car and I completely understand the potential risks associated with the mod. That's why I periodically give it a good visual inspection, as well as make sure it's torqued to spec. So far, so good. I also know that the "huge gains" are a crock, but I don't mind paying a couple hundred bucks for a couple HP. The threads of people installing one and then coming on here raving about how much harder the car pulls are good for a laugh; it's almost like a shared delusion.
Think about it. A stock 6MT TL makes 258 hp crank and let's say an average of 222 whp, which is highly efficient. That means only 36 hp is being consumed by the drivetrain, including the transmission and the front wheels and tires at what, around 45-50 lbs per wheel and tire? Does anyone honestly think shaving 5lbs off the crank pulley is going to free up a serious chunk of that 36 hp? In theory, you could just burn 2.5 lbs of tread off each front tire (yes, tires lose weight as they wear) and net the same result. The only difference in lightening the pulley is quicker revving in neutral.
As far as the Mag Moss Act, he is 100% correct in that any car manuafacturer's legal team would absolutely bury a plaintiff trying to reap restitution if said plaintiff's engine suffered ANY premature lower end failure and had an aftermarket pulley installed. People throw around the MMA like's it's some wonderful security blanket, but whatever Acura corporate deems "abnormal" you're screwed for the time being. And if you've thrown a bearing with the pulley installed, don't waste your money on an attorney.
I realize some may resent the fact Dave B may be making us realize some things that we really had hoped were untrue. I find it difficult to find a reason why they would lead us astray. No offense against any vendor but they are naturally motivated to sell their products or they go out of business.
Thanks again for all the great discussion.
#260
Potential Gouging
I'm not sure who you're referring to when you talk about 15.3% in markup but I can tell you there is a huge markup at the dealership on OE parts. I know for a fact that Honda/Acura dealerships have at least 45-50% in profit margin in parts. I've seen an invoice before and there's a reason that places like www.acuraoemparts.com sells at 25% off of list. So not sure where 15% is coming from but if you want to say that the Big 3 only make 15% on their parts I'd be highly surprised; that being said if you're selling thousands of parts a day at a 15% margin then it's worth it b/c that's volume. But when you have to take time to make one sale on one part to one person and maybe that person doesn't even buy it but you took the time to speak with them a 15% margin is less than desirable, thus the reason a lot of shops are going out of business. You guys may have some idea on the corporate level what goes on but you're looking at billions of dollars in parts; at a local retail shop level 15% is acceptable (b/c unfortunately we're fortunate to get 15%) but it's NOT a great profit margin.
Anyways, this entire past few days of ramblings are non sequitur and this thread has quickly become not what it was proposed to be.
Anyways, this entire past few days of ramblings are non sequitur and this thread has quickly become not what it was proposed to be.
Raw material and purchased component costs
Labor
Burden
SG&A, profit, scrap and engineering costs.
Each OEM sets a limit on total markup allowed. This amount is determined by the Big 3's cost estimating organization and passed onto the purchasing group. Hence the OEM buyers prevent (or at least attempt to) greater than about 15% total markup. Granted, some suppliers like Bosch refuse to disclose detailed cost break downs and sometimes Ford tells them to pack sand... not always.
Dealerships typically fall into the service category instead of production and are normally handled by the aftermarket group. What dealers charge is up to them. Dealers are not Ford, Chrysler or GM employees. The point being is the supplying manufactures have limited profit margins, not auto dealers.
So, if:
1.) We know the OEM pulley sells retail for around $50 (per Acurazine member on this thread), we can reasonably and conservatively assume the OEM most likely pays less than $20 to the supplier to manufacture the OEM pulley.
2.) We know the lightweight pulley costs less to manufacture based on the fact it weighs about 5 lbs less (less raw materials) than the OEM pulley and requires less complexity to manufacture due to its simple design.
Therefore, the lightweight pulley should cost less than $15 to manufacture.
If our great vendor is telling us he only makes about $35 profit on a $200 pulley that costs $15 to make, that must mean his manufacturer is making a profit of about $150 on a $200 item. That is better than the diamond industry. But we are not in that industry guys.
I am not supporting that greed knowing many others are struggling to keep afloat in the auto industry. If I missed something please let me know. Thanks.
#261
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
This is a very informative thread, awesome discussions minus the squabbling, thanks guys
I think someone mentioned earlier in here (couldn't find the post) that the 4g pulley is lighter than the 3g, would it be possible to put the 4g pulley on the 3g? and if so, worthwhile?
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by skd2k1; 05-01-2009 at 07:52 PM.
#262
Burning Brakes
This is a very informative thread, awesome discussions minus the squabbling, thanks guys
I think someone mentioned earlier in here (couldn't find the post) that the 4g pulley is lighter than the 3g, would it be possible to put the 4g pulley on the 3g? and if so, worthwhile?
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#263
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
You have to be really careful because a lot of crank pulleys having timing marks/rings on them that the crank sensor uses to confirm engine timing. If the marks are different, your engine wouldn't be too happy. You'd also have to confirm crank fitment and crank oil seal clearance. Basically, I wouldn't recommend it. That 2 to 3 lbs weight different difference isn't going to make a difference in terms of performance.
Last edited by skd2k1; 05-02-2009 at 01:05 PM.
#264
All motor
A difference of 4whp/wtq across the powerband is actually pretty legit. You have to remember, those aren't peak gains, but gains you see throughout the RPM band. I'm sure it wouldn't make a huge difference in terms of 1/4 mile, but it would definitely improve both ET and trap speed.
#265
Burning Brakes
Could very well be the same motor, but I'd make damn sure that if the crank pulley is part of the timing system, that it's timing marks are correct.
#266
Burning Brakes
A difference of 4whp/wtq across the powerband is actually pretty legit. You have to remember, those aren't peak gains, but gains you see throughout the RPM band. I'm sure it wouldn't make a huge difference in terms of 1/4 mile, but it would definitely improve both ET and trap speed.
#267
Protect your hard earned Assets!
In a 3,600lb car, it's not going to make a difference. The biggest problem I have with that dyno though is that we don't know which runs they're using. Like I said earlier, the same car, on the same dyno, on the same day, sees different numbers between runs. I don't know about the TL, but I know that G35s/350Zs tend to gain about 3whp between successive runs. It's not uncommon for a G35 to dyno 10whp more after three passes than where it was on the first run and nothing was done to the car. My VQ30 Maxima usually was 5whp+/- between runs, overall. My Z28 was around the same too.
My take away from this thread is quite significant. It appears many of the claims (whether they are right or wrong) about the lightweight pulley is unsubstantiated. We need to ask ourselves a lot of questions:
1. How does the manufacturer substantiate their HP gains?
2. Are there before and after dyno charts with successive pulls?
3. How many dyno pulls where done before and after?
4. What variables where held constant for the dyno pull and which ones where not.
5. Who would want to purchase something that is proven out by the target audience (us test rats)? I think the burden of proof lies on the manufacturer to substantiate all claims through generally accepted industry standards, not consumers.
Quite frankly, it appears the pulley is approaching a $200 gimmick that many of us really hope for gains but just get quicker reving engines and a little more wear and tear on the engine. This is not what I would like to believe, but until the gains can be scientifically proven, forget about making the pulley guys rich.
Just like investing (think about Bernie Madoff), if it appears to be too good, it usually is. Of course, saying one has been in business for "X" amount of time means absolutely nothing... we need to dig deeper for scientific proof from the manufacturer... they are the ones making the claims and should be responsible to substantiate them.
#268
Thanks for sharing your experience. You have some good points that I think we all need to take into consideration before considering the purchase of an aftermarket lightweight pulley.
My take away from this thread is quite significant. It appears many of the claims (whether they are right or wrong) about the lightweight pulley is unsubstantiated. We need to ask ourselves a lot of questions:
1. How does the manufacturer substantiate their HP gains?
2. Are there before and after dyno charts with successive pulls?
3. How many dyno pulls where done before and after?
4. What variables where held constant for the dyno pull and which ones where not.
5. Who would want to purchase something that is proven out by the target audience (us test rats)? I think the burden of proof lies on the manufacturer to substantiate all claims through generally accepted industry standards, not consumers.
Quite frankly, it appears the pulley is approaching a $200 gimmick that many of us really hope for gains but just get quicker reving engines and a little more wear and tear on the engine. This is not what I would like to believe, but until the gains can be scientifically proven, forget about making the pulley guys rich.
Just like investing (think about Bernie Madoff), if it appears to be too good, it usually is. Of course, saying one has been in business for "X" amount of time means absolutely nothing... we need to dig deeper for scientific proof from the manufacturer... they are the ones making the claims and should be responsible to substantiate them.
My take away from this thread is quite significant. It appears many of the claims (whether they are right or wrong) about the lightweight pulley is unsubstantiated. We need to ask ourselves a lot of questions:
1. How does the manufacturer substantiate their HP gains?
2. Are there before and after dyno charts with successive pulls?
3. How many dyno pulls where done before and after?
4. What variables where held constant for the dyno pull and which ones where not.
5. Who would want to purchase something that is proven out by the target audience (us test rats)? I think the burden of proof lies on the manufacturer to substantiate all claims through generally accepted industry standards, not consumers.
Quite frankly, it appears the pulley is approaching a $200 gimmick that many of us really hope for gains but just get quicker reving engines and a little more wear and tear on the engine. This is not what I would like to believe, but until the gains can be scientifically proven, forget about making the pulley guys rich.
Just like investing (think about Bernie Madoff), if it appears to be too good, it usually is. Of course, saying one has been in business for "X" amount of time means absolutely nothing... we need to dig deeper for scientific proof from the manufacturer... they are the ones making the claims and should be responsible to substantiate them.
I agree...
No scientific proof, no need for us to damp $200 in a gimmick, useless item...
#269
Burning Brakes
I also find it terribly funny that I get knocked for comparing the VQ series to the J series in terms of the pulley designs and motor layouts, the only dynos provided "proving" this part works are for the TSX. Seems a bit hypocritical.
#270
Belts
I have a stock size diameter ur crank pulley...planning on installing the pulley sometime next weekend and i know i don't have to replace the belts but i was wondering why not since i'm under the car anyway. so what kind of belt is recomended and where can i get the belt or belts?
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#271
If it sounds to good, watch out
I have a stock size diameter ur crank pulley...planning on installing the pulley sometime next weekend and i know i don't have to replace the belts but i was wondering why not since i'm under the car anyway. so what kind of belt is recomended and where can i get the belt or belts?![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
If people continue to purchase items with no substantial proof, perhaps I should start selling items that sound like they offer performance gains. I could make a ton in profit and not have to do any product validation, testing etc... just outsource the manufacturing and sell the product to eager enthusiasts that are willing to field test the product free for me.
You may want to inquire into the manufactures background, education, experience etc. Being an entrepreneur and/or salesmen is one thing, but product design and validation are another.
Psychologically I guess we are always looking for something better and if it seems really good we ignore our common sense. We all do it. Think of all those duped by Bernie Madoff.
#272
practicing nihilist
Gates brand belts have been installed by more than a few and are recommended by UR [que Dave_B shootdown of this product] - check page 1 of this thread.
I remember some talk of Napa having the best price. It's affordable.
I remember some talk of Napa having the best price. It's affordable.
#274
It is a harmonic damper. You cannot balance harmonics. You can dampen them. The elastomer ring actually joins two seperate pullies as one. The elastomer is MOST DEFINITELY a damper for the crank. The ring is not there to reduce noise. I have no idea where UR ever came up with that theory. Most every car made after the mid 1990s comes with these crank dampers (ie elastomer ring sandwiched between two pulleys joined as one).
After reading everything posted all i can do is shake my head at all your mis-information. The factory crank pulley on todays cars have nothing to do with torsional damping. The rubber in a factory pulley is to reduce any audible engine noise from the accessories. The elastomer is a factory pulley is not only inadequate but cant even function as a torsional damper. For a dampener to help with torsional vibrations/twisting of the crank not it must have the proper weight to function properly and MUST be interference fitted to the crank snout. (pressed on). the factory pulley is bolted on and the rubber is sandwiched. It couldn't dampen because the part has so much play it couldn't do it. So much force is put on a true damper that on domestic motors the use them and make big power have problems from keeping the balancer from moving that they have to resort to additional methods of securing it to keep this from happening.
(you say that the factory pulleys are a proper damper but yet I can show you proof of early 90's cars that don't even have a rubber ring in them. what do you say to that? Also, since I mentioned that weight is in important factor in a proper balancer why is it the factory pulleys are getting lighter and using less damper material and making a lot more horsepower?)
BTW this is a proper balancer mostly used externally balanced motors.
![](https://www.jrmotorsports.com/Images/UploadedImages/Transmission_&_Drive_Train/PP_90005.jpg)
If you need one on toady's motors its usually due to high horsepower applications and high revving cars that go way beyond the factory design and limits.
It will most definitely void your warranty if your crank snaps because your UDP pulley fails. There have been 3 instances now of UR UDP failing on VQ35DEs (350Zs and G35). The pulley key slot breaks/chips which then fatigues the key, the pulley wobbles, seizes to the crank unbalanced, and blow the motor because it becomes wildly unbalanced. UR will claim the pulley was incorrectly installed which is laughable because the pulley only goes on one way and with a crazy amount of torque (180 ft/lbs+).
Also, maybe your UR pulley doesn't fail, but what if your Acura has a crank bearing failure or the motor starts consuming oil? You can be certain they'll point the finger at the pulley.
Also, maybe your UR pulley doesn't fail, but what if your Acura has a crank bearing failure or the motor starts consuming oil? You can be certain they'll point the finger at the pulley.
There are hundreds of cases of Nissan VQs living with UR and lightened pulleys as well including my old VQ30 that lasted 30K miles and 40 1/4 mile passes with one. That doesn't mean that reliability/longevity of the motor isn't being compromised. Do you really think UR or yourself would stand by your "will not cause an issue" statement if that key way happens to break and wrecks the motor or the motor spins a bearing? I having a suspicion that UR would only cover the cost of the pulley, not the $6K+ motor. Extended redlines or not, you're walking on egg shells with the lightened undampened pulley.
Million dollar question:
If removing the OEM damper wasn't a bad thing, then way do many factory race engines go with heavier fluid-filled crank pullies (ie Fluidampers)? Because they do a bang-up job quelling crank vibrations in motors operating in mid and high rpms and improve longevity. They also improve performance because they allow everything within the reciprocating assembly to operate more efficently, including the valve train.
If removing the OEM damper wasn't a bad thing, then way do many factory race engines go with heavier fluid-filled crank pullies (ie Fluidampers)? Because they do a bang-up job quelling crank vibrations in motors operating in mid and high rpms and improve longevity. They also improve performance because they allow everything within the reciprocating assembly to operate more efficently, including the valve train.
I've researched this and still can't find dyno proof of the UDP making power. Has anyone done a before and after dyno showing that the UR actually makes power or is everyone going off of what they've been told by UR? I know on my VQ30, I gained no power on the dyno and was no faster in the 1/4 mile. I'm not an inconsistent racer either with about 500 passes under my belt. I've also seen dynos of other VQ30/35 showing absolutely no gains with UR and other lightened pulleys.
I think the whole idea behind gaining power from lightened underdriven pulleys stems from the Mustang 5.0 days where adding a set of pulleys (crank, water pump, alternator) resulted in a very real gain of around 8whp. However, nearly all this gain came from severely underdriving the alternator and water pump. Since the J-series water pump is not driven by crank pulley, the gains won't be realized.
I think the whole idea behind gaining power from lightened underdriven pulleys stems from the Mustang 5.0 days where adding a set of pulleys (crank, water pump, alternator) resulted in a very real gain of around 8whp. However, nearly all this gain came from severely underdriving the alternator and water pump. Since the J-series water pump is not driven by crank pulley, the gains won't be realized.
Reduces noise from what Accessory noise? Seriously, that is a one of the stupid excuses I hear for UR (I know you didn't come up with that because that claim has been on their site for over a decade).
What ended up happening was the key way got chipped which allowed the pulley to move slightly which then made the key break more which allowed the pulley to wobble badly. The problem is in the design of the pulley, not the install. The pulley is a solid piece of billet. The OEM pulley is a very dense high carbon steel. The aluminum is soft and brittle and can't handle the excessive torque of the crank bolt. There's a good reason why the OEM part is steel. Strength. It would be far cheaper to make the OEM pulleys out of aluminum.
I'm just trying to inform you guys about the intended purpose of the crank pulley on most every late model car and give you a second opinion because much of what everyone knows about these pulleys comes directly from UR.
Because a lot of R&D and money went into designing the OEM pulley and it's actually a precision part. You would need some serious equipment to build one. UR and other pulley makers use relatively simple CNC and lathe equipment. You just can't slap the elastomer ring in there and call it good. It's placement and size is critical and well beyond the capabilities of what UR can do or even understands.
For a consumer it appears Dave B did some serious homework. It is always good to hear both sides of the story. Besides, I keep asking myself why don' the OEM's make the change to a lighter weight pulley and gain more HP? I sense there is a compelling reason for two reasons:
1. Cross functional OEM and supplier teams including engineering and purchasing hold VAVE meetings to identify ways to reduce part complexity and cost. If a lower cost material or less material can be used it would have been identified by now.
2. Every part on your vehicle goes through the AIAG PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) whereby the manufacturing supplier must document the part weight to four decimal places. Granted, identifying the weight is one very small element of the PPAP process. However, the point is everyone is concerned about part weight. Believe me if the team could pull five pounds from one part they would all get praised and most likely a spot award. So, knowing this potential part weight reduction has not been implemented, there certainly is a very strong reason why the OEMs do not use aluminum light weight crank pulleys. I admit since I am not on that team I am not sure what the reasoning is.
Bottom line for me, as much as I REALLY want to try the light weight pulley, there seems no way this mod is worth the risk for a thirty thousand dollar vehicle that I plan to keep for ten years or more and 200,000 plus miles. Besides, I really don't have the time or energy to get into a pissing contest with the dealer and end up in arbitration or trying to fight every warranty claim.
1. Cross functional OEM and supplier teams including engineering and purchasing hold VAVE meetings to identify ways to reduce part complexity and cost. If a lower cost material or less material can be used it would have been identified by now.
2. Every part on your vehicle goes through the AIAG PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) whereby the manufacturing supplier must document the part weight to four decimal places. Granted, identifying the weight is one very small element of the PPAP process. However, the point is everyone is concerned about part weight. Believe me if the team could pull five pounds from one part they would all get praised and most likely a spot award. So, knowing this potential part weight reduction has not been implemented, there certainly is a very strong reason why the OEMs do not use aluminum light weight crank pulleys. I admit since I am not on that team I am not sure what the reasoning is.
Bottom line for me, as much as I REALLY want to try the light weight pulley, there seems no way this mod is worth the risk for a thirty thousand dollar vehicle that I plan to keep for ten years or more and 200,000 plus miles. Besides, I really don't have the time or energy to get into a pissing contest with the dealer and end up in arbitration or trying to fight every warranty claim.
Those ugly boxes might serve a VERY important roll in delivering the best overall driveability and power delivery. Additionally, and most importantly to most of us gearheads, those plastic boxes might add power. It called resonance tuning. Not only does the box reduce induction noise, it helps pressurize intake tract, keeping up air velocity and reducing pressure drops. Just because the intake is louder does not mean it's making more power. On my old VQ30 Maxima, the inline intake resonator was responsible for boosting midrange power by nearly 8whp. Basically, you need to understand which resonators are there to solely reduce intake volume and the ones that there to improve power, driveability, and throttle response.
Aluminum is more expensive? You better check those metal prices. The OEM pulley is a high carbon steel which is far more expensive than the aluminum. Then there's all the cost to sandwich two pulleys together with the rubber ring plus all the R&D that has to go into desigining the pulley so that it adequately dampens the crank. UR takes a few measurements, plugs it into their CNC computer and 5 minutes later, a pulley is made. You really think that's a more expensive process There are guys making crank pulleys for Titan v8s and they're doing it in their off time. A one guy operation and 8 hours of measuring resulted in the crank pulley. That would be an R&D wet dream for Honda.
Where in the world do you get this info Have you ever worked on a domestic V8. Late model crank pulleys aren't pressed on. The LS Series and Ford Mod motor V8 crank dampers are keyed just like the J-series and slide off without the need of a puller. Same as my VQ30's crank pulley.
Interestingly, when I removed my UR pulley from VQ30, it required a puller to get it off. Yeah, that was scary. Clearly the pulley was showing wear because it had actually rotated itself slightly up against the key. When it was new, it slide right on.
Interestingly, when I removed my UR pulley from VQ30, it required a puller to get it off. Yeah, that was scary. Clearly the pulley was showing wear because it had actually rotated itself slightly up against the key. When it was new, it slide right on.
Oh no. You guys are now probably thinking why the hell are we paying anything more than the $50 the dealer charges for the OEM pulley that costs more to make. Someone is making a huge profit. If you are thinking this, your great mind has followed the logic. Smart guy. Now you know what kind of markups are involved. This type of education allows us to hold the supply base to reasonable profitability.
So, if:
1.) We know the OEM pulley sells retail for around $50 (per Acurazine member on this thread), we can reasonably and conservatively assume the OEM most likely pays less than $20 to the supplier to manufacture the OEM pulley.
2.) We know the lightweight pulley costs less to manufacture based on the fact it weighs about 5 lbs less (less raw materials) than the OEM pulley and requires less complexity to manufacture due to its simple design.
Therefore, the lightweight pulley should cost less than $15 to manufacture.
If our great vendor is telling us he only makes about $35 profit on a $200 pulley that costs $15 to make, that must mean his manufacturer is making a profit of about $150 on a $200 item. That is better than the diamond industry. But we are not in that industry guys.
I am not supporting that greed knowing many others are struggling to keep afloat in the auto industry. If I missed something please let me know. Thanks.
1.) We know the OEM pulley sells retail for around $50 (per Acurazine member on this thread), we can reasonably and conservatively assume the OEM most likely pays less than $20 to the supplier to manufacture the OEM pulley.
2.) We know the lightweight pulley costs less to manufacture based on the fact it weighs about 5 lbs less (less raw materials) than the OEM pulley and requires less complexity to manufacture due to its simple design.
Therefore, the lightweight pulley should cost less than $15 to manufacture.
If our great vendor is telling us he only makes about $35 profit on a $200 pulley that costs $15 to make, that must mean his manufacturer is making a profit of about $150 on a $200 item. That is better than the diamond industry. But we are not in that industry guys.
I am not supporting that greed knowing many others are struggling to keep afloat in the auto industry. If I missed something please let me know. Thanks.
You have to be really careful because a lot of crank pulleys having timing marks/rings on them that the crank sensor uses to confirm engine timing. If the marks are different, your engine wouldn't be too happy. You'd also have to confirm crank fitment and crank oil seal clearance. Basically, I wouldn't recommend it. That 2 to 3 lbs weight different difference isn't going to make a difference in terms of performance.
people do your own research. dont let internet mechanics with no experience in the field make decisions for you. These company's aren't in business for 10+ years because they make a BS product with invalid claims. the proof is out there. whether its pulleys, intakes etc..
Jester.
#275
btw. this is from UR's site and i think it worth reading as it might give a better understanding for people with questions.
Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some domestic V6 & V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley making them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress noise from the engine accessories; the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to realize in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda B & D Series engines, Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's just to mention a few. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement and frequencies of high amplitude. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as shorter stroke length, smaller displacement, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur. More importantly the actual tune of the engine, espcially with modified vheciles, is the biggest factor in potential engine damage. Poor tuning leads to detonation which is an engine killer that no damper can stop.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about solid crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand our crank pulleys better.
Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, precise quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the service life of your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving of engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some domestic V6 & V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley making them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress noise from the engine accessories; the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to realize in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda B & D Series engines, Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's just to mention a few. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement and frequencies of high amplitude. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as shorter stroke length, smaller displacement, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur. More importantly the actual tune of the engine, espcially with modified vheciles, is the biggest factor in potential engine damage. Poor tuning leads to detonation which is an engine killer that no damper can stop.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about solid crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand our crank pulleys better.
Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, precise quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the service life of your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving of engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
#276
Hi Jester61, I have been following this thread almost daily as I am one of those ppl deciding on the UR pulley and whether or not to go for it. Just out of fairness sake, I noticed you just joined Acurazine today? Have only 2 posts and both back to back in this thread. Can you let all the members know if you were solicited or invited by someone from the "for UR pulley group" to come on here? What is your background to provide info? Do you drive a 3G TL? Ppl have flamed Dave_B and asked him to leave the Acurazine forums as he does not drive an Acura. So I think the last question is important. Thanks for humouring me if you decide to answer the questions.
#277
Hi Jester61, I have been following this thread almost daily as I am one of those ppl deciding on the UR pulley and whether or not to go for it. Just out of fairness sake, I noticed you just joined Acurazine today? Have only 2 posts and both back to back in this thread. Can you let all the members know if you were solicited or invited by someone from the "for UR pulley group" to come on here? What is your background to provide info? Do you drive a 3G TL? Ppl have flamed Dave_B and asked him to leave the Acurazine forums as he does not drive an Acura. So I think the last question is important. Thanks for humouring me if you decide to answer the questions.
#278
he hasn't done anything but copy and paste what he read without understating it. Its nothing but cost. manufactures are not going to spend extra money on a part that cost more. If you're worried about warranty, don't do any mods (wheels, exhaust) to your car until the warranty's uppeople do your own research. dont let internet mechanics with no experience in the field make decisions for you. These company's aren't in business for 10+ years because they make a BS product with invalid claims. the proof is out there. whether its pulleys, intakes etc..
Jester.
Jester.
Keep in mind, the people who design and purchase parts for a living with years of experience are commenting within this thread. These are degreed folks (some with advanced degrees and have annual spends of more than $100 million a year). I think we are lucky to have this talent available to us enthusiasts.
#279
Quote:
For a consumer it appears Dave B did some serious homework. It is always good to hear both sides of the story. Besides, I keep asking myself why don' the OEM's make the change to a lighter weight pulley and gain more HP? I sense there is a compelling reason for two reasons:
1. Cross functional OEM and supplier teams including engineering and purchasing hold VAVE meetings to identify ways to reduce part complexity and cost. If a lower cost material or less material can be used it would have been identified by now.
2. Every part on your vehicle goes through the AIAG PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) whereby the manufacturing supplier must document the part weight to four decimal places. Granted, identifying the weight is one very small element of the PPAP process. However, the point is everyone is concerned about part weight. Believe me if the team could pull five pounds from one part they would all get praised and most likely a spot award. So, knowing this potential part weight reduction has not been implemented, there certainly is a very strong reason why the OEMs do not use aluminum light weight crank pulleys. I admit since I am not on that team I am not sure what the reasoning is.
Bottom line for me, as much as I REALLY want to try the light weight pulley, there seems no way this mod is worth the risk for a thirty thousand dollar vehicle that I plan to keep for ten years or more and 200,000 plus miles. Besides, I really don't have the time or energy to get into a pissing contest with the dealer and end up in arbitration or trying to fight every warranty claim.
he hasn't done anything but copy and paste what he read without understating it. Its nothing but cost. manufactures are not going to spend extra money on a part that cost more. If you're worried about warranty, don't do any mods (wheels, exhaust) to your car until the warranty's up.
For a consumer it appears Dave B did some serious homework. It is always good to hear both sides of the story. Besides, I keep asking myself why don' the OEM's make the change to a lighter weight pulley and gain more HP? I sense there is a compelling reason for two reasons:
1. Cross functional OEM and supplier teams including engineering and purchasing hold VAVE meetings to identify ways to reduce part complexity and cost. If a lower cost material or less material can be used it would have been identified by now.
2. Every part on your vehicle goes through the AIAG PPAP (Production Part Approval Process) whereby the manufacturing supplier must document the part weight to four decimal places. Granted, identifying the weight is one very small element of the PPAP process. However, the point is everyone is concerned about part weight. Believe me if the team could pull five pounds from one part they would all get praised and most likely a spot award. So, knowing this potential part weight reduction has not been implemented, there certainly is a very strong reason why the OEMs do not use aluminum light weight crank pulleys. I admit since I am not on that team I am not sure what the reasoning is.
Bottom line for me, as much as I REALLY want to try the light weight pulley, there seems no way this mod is worth the risk for a thirty thousand dollar vehicle that I plan to keep for ten years or more and 200,000 plus miles. Besides, I really don't have the time or energy to get into a pissing contest with the dealer and end up in arbitration or trying to fight every warranty claim.
he hasn't done anything but copy and paste what he read without understating it. Its nothing but cost. manufactures are not going to spend extra money on a part that cost more. If you're worried about warranty, don't do any mods (wheels, exhaust) to your car until the warranty's up.
The two points are from my twenty years experience leading cross-functional teams to launch forward model programs within the auto industry. I would encourage you to debate points that you have a concern with instead of just claiming it was copied. I would be happy to educate you.
#280
practicing nihilist
I think it's high time somebody with plenty of time at work make a phone call to corporate or contact a rep through the Acura America homepage and stress the importance of a reputable factory tech/engineer comment.
I'm not discrediting Dave_B's comments, I just don't like his attitude.
I have one, installed it myself and at the time it was the #1 mod that experienced tuners on this site wished they had done first. Guys that put this on a bone stock car with no other mods were greeted to definite response from the engine and not just a placebo effect.
My advice is to get it if you're on the fence. Just be sure to read ALL the DIY threads or get installed by a reputable mechanic (many dealerships have done the install, too).
Jester, prepare for death by hyperlink...
I'm not discrediting Dave_B's comments, I just don't like his attitude.
I have one, installed it myself and at the time it was the #1 mod that experienced tuners on this site wished they had done first. Guys that put this on a bone stock car with no other mods were greeted to definite response from the engine and not just a placebo effect.
My advice is to get it if you're on the fence. Just be sure to read ALL the DIY threads or get installed by a reputable mechanic (many dealerships have done the install, too).
Jester, prepare for death by hyperlink...