UR Crank Pulley info 3G Garage #A-098
#321
The Real Truth
What does profitability have to do with this debate anyways? You guys are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'd like to know what you make an hour? I think you can take a pay cut actually and then after the pay cut contribute half of your salary to charities. Clearly if you have the time to ramble on these forums about profitability you have more time than is necessary and you are making too much money.
I mean this is the most ridiculous debate. That being said, b/c neither of you can think outside of the box so here is some real world info:
1. The only reason the OE part is so cheap is because the car is in production. When they change to the next gen or make a motor change that pulley will become $150 to $200. You will see.
2. So it costs less because it weighs less? Wow, what would happen if we made it out of titanium? I guess it would cost even less!
Let’s see. After UR does their R&D they have rent, office insurance, liability insurance (of which I confirmed like my own shop they carry 2,000,000.00). Then there’s heat, electric, machine payments, tooling costs constantly as they were out, advertising costs, inventory costs, salaries, health care costs, accountant costs, state taxes, federal taxes, inventory taxes, corporate taxes, unemployment taxes, etc. All I can say is you are pretty far off on pure manufacturing cost, then you need to double the raw manufacturing costs just to cover all the other costs then there is the 1/3 of profit which has consistently fallen due to an almost tripling of material costs since UR has started.
I mean this is the most ridiculous debate. That being said, b/c neither of you can think outside of the box so here is some real world info:
1. The only reason the OE part is so cheap is because the car is in production. When they change to the next gen or make a motor change that pulley will become $150 to $200. You will see.
2. So it costs less because it weighs less? Wow, what would happen if we made it out of titanium? I guess it would cost even less!
Let’s see. After UR does their R&D they have rent, office insurance, liability insurance (of which I confirmed like my own shop they carry 2,000,000.00). Then there’s heat, electric, machine payments, tooling costs constantly as they were out, advertising costs, inventory costs, salaries, health care costs, accountant costs, state taxes, federal taxes, inventory taxes, corporate taxes, unemployment taxes, etc. All I can say is you are pretty far off on pure manufacturing cost, then you need to double the raw manufacturing costs just to cover all the other costs then there is the 1/3 of profit which has consistently fallen due to an almost tripling of material costs since UR has started.
Josh, lets stop throwing smoke screens and address the points at hand. Your inability to answer some of the questions or prove them otherwise indicates you are unable to argue with someone who has the real world experience that you dismiss as copying something from the internet... that is the furthest from the truth as you will learn.
Discussing profitability is one way that I can discredit you and your claims... I will let Dave handle the technical points as he is doing one hell of a great job as a one man army. The cost break down reveals the fact enthusiasts are paying way too much for the pulley. I didn't hear anyone deny the profit margins I suggested. You know why? Because they know I am right. And you have to fight like hell to protect this confidential information from leaking to your audience. You know very well people don't like to get scammed or pay way too much. Do you think a $150 profit on a $200 pulley is reasonable?
This is just another way (in addition to the technical discussions with Dave) to prove how the pulley people can gouge our enthusiasts.
Let me offer some proof (something you seldom do) without even citing my credentials or experience.
I had one of my engineers contact Mike at UR. Mike made it clear UR outsources the pulley work from time to time and the cost is less than $50 to make the pulley. Now what kind of overhead is involved when all the work is outsourced? This statement cleary supports my position that these guys are making $150 profit on a $200 sale. I think anyone would love that profit margin.
My intention is certainly not to get Mike fired for disclosing that confidential information, but it proves my calculations are in line. I think it is right that the enthusiasts on this site know the truth. You can continue to play with Dave and all the technical trickery, but please don't attempt to insult the audience by hiding the truth about the profit margin by lying. A little honesty will go a long way with folks. Many of us are interested in good, reasonably priced mods. Don't sour your reputation by making false claims... we need a rep that we can work with and trust. Thank you.
#322
Another Claim Proven Wrong.
Therefore, the comment about OEM purchased part prices going up is completely not true. Please do not attempt to BS the guys that do this for a living with years of experience.
#323
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Let's keep this discussion on topic please and leave 'profits' out. It has nothing to do with the debate.
#324
Unusual Behavior
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
#325
Integrity
For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.
#326
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
While I respect your comment, the postings concerning profitability are directly related to the debate. If you can reasonably show the person is lying about a topic close to home, it is fair to say he is also lying about other claims. I think we all want to trust someone that we seek for guidance on performance gains.
For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.
For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.
I'm not pulling one way or the other.. but I think everyone knows the profit margin here. This is no different than Acura charging $500 to change brake pads or $300 to change plugs while paying the tech $15 /hr. The low demand requires higher margins because of the market -> supply vs. demand <- Catering to a smaller market requires a balance between actual costs to produce the product and all associated overhead -> marketing, middle men margins, warranty claims, etc..
So any margin on the UR Pulley is really small in comparison and in no way should determine the honesty & integrity of a supplier / vendor. It's up to the consumer to determine if they're willing to pay the high margin for the product or not. I think CleanCL gave a profound statement to the reliability of the pulley that I think we should revisit. Whether or not this adds to the performance or not really isn't an issue. We can place the UR pulley in the same category as the sprint booster.. the fact is that consumers are happy with it.. and if they're not they can swap back to the stock pulley and sell the UR Pulley to someone who will enjoy it.
#327
Discussing profitability is one way that I can discredit you and your claims... I will let Dave handle the technical points as he is doing one hell of a great job as a one man army. The cost break down reveals the fact enthusiasts are paying way too much for the pulley. I didn't hear anyone deny the profit margins I suggested. You know why? Because they know I am right. And you have to fight like hell to protect this confidential information from leaking to your audience. You know very well people don't like to get scammed or pay way too much. Do you think a $150 profit on a $200 pulley is reasonable?
This is just another way (in addition to the technical discussions with Dave) to prove how the pulley people can gouge our enthusiasts.
Let me offer some proof (something you seldom do) without even citing my credentials or experience.
I had one of my engineers contact Mike at UR. Mike made it clear UR outsources the pulley work from time to time and the cost is less than $50 to make the pulley. Now what kind of overhead is involved when all the work is outsourced? This statement cleary supports my position that these guys are making $150 profit on a $200 sale. I think anyone would love that profit margin.
My intention is certainly not to get Mike fired for disclosing that confidential information, but it proves my calculations are in line. I think it is right that the enthusiasts on this site know the truth. You can continue to play with Dave and all the technical trickery, but please don't attempt to insult the audience by hiding the truth about the profit margin by lying. A little honesty will go a long way with folks. Many of us are interested in good, reasonably priced mods. Don't sour your reputation by making false claims... we need a rep that we can work with and trust. Thank you.
This is just another way (in addition to the technical discussions with Dave) to prove how the pulley people can gouge our enthusiasts.
Let me offer some proof (something you seldom do) without even citing my credentials or experience.
I had one of my engineers contact Mike at UR. Mike made it clear UR outsources the pulley work from time to time and the cost is less than $50 to make the pulley. Now what kind of overhead is involved when all the work is outsourced? This statement cleary supports my position that these guys are making $150 profit on a $200 sale. I think anyone would love that profit margin.
My intention is certainly not to get Mike fired for disclosing that confidential information, but it proves my calculations are in line. I think it is right that the enthusiasts on this site know the truth. You can continue to play with Dave and all the technical trickery, but please don't attempt to insult the audience by hiding the truth about the profit margin by lying. A little honesty will go a long way with folks. Many of us are interested in good, reasonably priced mods. Don't sour your reputation by making false claims... we need a rep that we can work with and trust. Thank you.
First off what does profitability have to do with this discussion? Absolutely nothing. Dave, still hasn't answer all my questions and has done a piss poor job proving that the factory crank pulley is able to provide effective torsional damping. As I said weight is an important factor in counteracting crank twisting. Not only that the rubber mass must be supported properly and must be interference fitted to the crank. So I'll say again how is the factory crank pulley getting lighter and using less damper material and making a lot more horsepower?
Really. UR gave you that info. I find that hard to believe. I'll see if I can get them to comment on that.
#328
With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
LOL. how do i explain my behavior? WTF does that mean?
#329
practicing nihilist
With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
Dave_B's got 400+ posts in his profile but I've been an active member since 2005 (I read much more than I post, so don't make this a 'size' thing) and he's certainly not been an active 'performance parts and modifications' poster.
#330
Burning Brakes
you mean like a G35 owner that rolls hot into a thread concerning a well respected performance part for Acura TL J-series engines and immediately begins to defecate all over said product? You're right, that is suspicious.
Dave_B's got 400+ posts in his profile but I've been an active member since 2005 (I read much more than I post, so don't make this a 'size' thing) and he's certainly not been an active 'performance parts and modifications' poster.
Dave_B's got 400+ posts in his profile but I've been an active member since 2005 (I read much more than I post, so don't make this a 'size' thing) and he's certainly not been an active 'performance parts and modifications' poster.
I have said everything that needs to be said to support my argument regarding UDPs/lightened non-dampened pulleys. This thread is steering itself off track, getting a bit heated, and personal. I'd rather the thread not get locked and wiped out because I think there's a lot of good debate on both sides for a potential buyer to read and make their own informed decision. If anyone wants to discuss this topic further, they can PM me and I will respond.
#331
AZ Community Team
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N35°03'16.75", W 080°51'0.9"
Posts: 32,488
Received 7,771 Likes
on
4,342 Posts
While I respect your comment, the postings concerning profitability are directly related to the debate. If you can reasonably show the person is lying about a topic close to home, it is fair to say he is also lying about other claims. I think we all want to trust someone that we seek for guidance on performance gains.
For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.
For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.
Talk about integrity.
#332
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Sorry to get off topic but Bearcat.. You're a Mega Mod now.. damn.. lol. .. and I concur that profits have nothing to do with technical merits.
#334
I think Dave and I attempted to be very patient with you mechanics. I even attempted to educate you by detailing supporting facts from the pulley supplier that supports my arguements and discredits your character and integrity.
If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.
#335
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (4)
I think Dave and I attempted to be very patient with you mechanics. I even attempted to educate you by detailing supporting facts from the pulley supplier that supports my arguements and discredits your character and integrity.
If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.
If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.
With that said, I never hesitate to call up Excelerate for not only a price on a part, but his opinion as well. I don't just hand out trust to people, they have to earn it. After 5 years, he is the first I go to because of his service, experience, and honesty.
I've put a lot of parts to real life tests on my 2G CL, and I relay my experiences and own research. As I've said, I've had these motors open on benches with engine builders who ONLY work on Honda motors for high horsepower applications. No offense, but I tend to believe the guys with grease on their hands, not a pencil pusher.
#336
Failure to Answer Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acura Jeff
With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
For some reason you continue to evade my questions and throw up smoke. What is preventing you from answering the questions?
Originally Posted by Acura Jeff
With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.
How do you explain this behavior?
What is your experience?
Really? suspicious? I have to be a long time member to say something? I could easily say the same about you and dave. 60mph? I only have 5 post. How am I aligning myself with anyone? Just posting what I know. target you and Dave? You not really but your comments are becoming more ridiculous and off topic. Dave, just disagreeing with him.
LOL. how do i explain my behavior? WTF does that mean?
LOL. how do i explain my behavior? WTF does that mean?
#337
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Maybe I wasn't clear in my last post.
Stay on topic. You all have been warned. Next post about 'profits' gets a 2 week temp ban.
Stay on topic. You all have been warned. Next post about 'profits' gets a 2 week temp ban.
#338
With all that aside, several have taken time from their families to educate you in hopes that you would learn something.
#339
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
I think Dave and I attempted to be very patient with you mechanics. I even attempted to educate you by detailing supporting facts from the pulley supplier that supports my arguements and discredits your character and integrity.
If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.
If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.
#340
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
If anybody has anything significant to add to this thread regarding the topic, PM me or one of the other mods and we will add it to the thread since it is a thread from the 3G Garage.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MrHeeltoe
1G TSX Tires, Wheels, & Suspension
20
02-23-2023 01:54 PM
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
MrHeeltoe
2G TSX Tires, Wheels & Suspension
3
09-29-2015 10:43 PM
MrHeeltoe
3G TL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
0
09-28-2015 05:43 PM