Acura Jeff

Josh, lets stop throwing smoke screens and address the points at hand. Your inability to answer some of the questions or prove them otherwise indicates you are unable to argue with someone who has the real world experience that you dismiss as copying something from the internet... that is the furthest from the truth as you will learn.

Discussing profitability is one way that I can discredit you and your claims... I will let Dave handle the technical points as he is doing one hell of a great job as a one man army. The cost break down reveals the fact enthusiasts are paying way too much for the pulley. I didn't hear anyone deny the profit margins I suggested. You know why? Because they know I am right. And you have to fight like hell to protect this confidential information from leaking to your audience. You know very well people don't like to get scammed or pay way too much. Do you think a $150 profit on a $200 pulley is reasonable?

This is just another way (in addition to the technical discussions with Dave) to prove how the pulley people can gouge our enthusiasts.

Let me offer some proof (something you seldom do) without even citing my credentials or experience.

I had one of my engineers contact Mike at UR. Mike made it clear UR outsources the pulley work from time to time and the cost is less than $50 to make the pulley. Now what kind of overhead is involved when all the work is outsourced? This statement cleary supports my position that these guys are making $150 profit on a $200 sale. I think anyone would love that profit margin.

My intention is certainly not to get Mike fired for disclosing that confidential information, but it proves my calculations are in line. I think it is right that the enthusiasts on this site know the truth. You can continue to play with Dave and all the technical trickery, but please don't attempt to insult the audience by hiding the truth about the profit margin by lying. A little honesty will go a long way with folks. Many of us are interested in good, reasonably priced mods. Don't sour your reputation by making false claims... we need a rep that we can work with and trust. Thank you.

Acura Jeff

Yes, Dave is absolutely correct. We require our supply base to maintain the tooling for at least ten years to support the aftermarket demand. In addition, the piece price is typically locked in at program award. Guys, this is industry standard.

Therefore, the comment about OEM purchased part prices going up is completely not true. Please do not attempt to BS the guys that do this for a living with years of experience.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Let's keep this discussion on topic please and leave 'profits' out. It has nothing to do with the debate.

Acura Jeff

With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.

How do you explain this behavior?

What is your experience?

Acura Jeff

While I respect your comment, the postings concerning profitability are directly related to the debate. If you can reasonably show the person is lying about a topic close to home, it is fair to say he is also lying about other claims. I think we all want to trust someone that we seek for guidance on performance gains.

For example, I trust my suppliers that are design responsible. If they loose integrity, they loose business.

Majofo

I'm not pulling one way or the other.. but I think everyone knows the profit margin here. This is no different than Acura charging $500 to change brake pads or $300 to change plugs while paying the tech $15 /hr. The low demand requires higher margins because of the market -> supply vs. demand <- Catering to a smaller market requires a balance between actual costs to produce the product and all associated overhead -> marketing, middle men margins, warranty claims, etc..

So any margin on the UR Pulley is really small in comparison and in no way should determine the honesty & integrity of a supplier / vendor. It's up to the consumer to determine if they're willing to pay the high margin for the product or not. I think CleanCL gave a profound statement to the reliability of the pulley that I think we should revisit. Whether or not this adds to the performance or not really isn't an issue. We can place the UR pulley in the same category as the sprint booster.. the fact is that consumers are happy with it.. and if they're not they can swap back to the stock pulley and sell the UR Pulley to someone who will enjoy it.

Jester61

First off what does profitability have to do with this discussion? Absolutely nothing. Dave, still hasn't answer all my questions and has done a piss poor job proving that the factory crank pulley is able to provide effective torsional damping. As I said weight is an important factor in counteracting crank twisting. Not only that the rubber mass must be supported properly and must be interference fitted to the crank. So I'll say again how is the factory crank pulley getting lighter and using less damper material and making a lot more horsepower?

Really. UR gave you that info. I find that hard to believe. I'll see if I can get them to comment on that.

Jester61

Really? suspicious? I have to be a long time member to say something? I could easily say the same about you and dave. 60mph? I only have 5 post. How am I aligning myself with anyone? Just posting what I know. target you and Dave? You not really but your comments are becoming more ridiculous and off topic. Dave, just disagreeing with him.
LOL. how do i explain my behavior? WTF does that mean?

NedShneebly

you mean like a G35 owner that rolls hot into a thread concerning a well respected performance part for Acura TL J-series engines and immediately begins to defecate all over said product? You're right, that is suspicious.

Dave_B's got 400+ posts in his profile but I've been an active member since 2005 (I read much more than I post, so don't make this a 'size' thing) and he's certainly not been an active 'performance parts and modifications' poster.

Dave_B

Most of my posts have been in your Racing Forum. I'm an advocate of keeping the racing off the streets and taking your cars to the strip to get real numbers. I actually have a sticky thread in the Racing forum which outlines how TL owners can get the most out of their cars at the strip. Contrary to what a select few of you believe, I'm not here to trash talk your cars and I'm not a brand fanboy. I'm only trying to offer up my automotive knowledge/experience relating to this particular part.

I have said everything that needs to be said to support my argument regarding UDPs/lightened non-dampened pulleys. This thread is steering itself off track, getting a bit heated, and personal. I'd rather the thread not get locked and wiped out because I think there's a lot of good debate on both sides for a potential buyer to read and make their own informed decision. If anyone wants to discuss this topic further, they can PM me and I will respond.

Bearcat94

Profitability has little (if anything) to do with the technical merits of the product. The same way your posts have little (if anything) to do with explaining "profitability".

Talk about integrity.

Majofo

Sorry to get off topic but Bearcat.. You're a Mega Mod now.. damn.. lol. .. and I concur that profits have nothing to do with technical merits.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

This is how I feel everytime I read this thread now.



It's not even worth replying anymore because it's like the blind leading the blind. Anyone who has any common sense can see past the nonsensical assertions by these two.

Acura Jeff

I think Dave and I attempted to be very patient with you mechanics. I even attempted to educate you by detailing supporting facts from the pulley supplier that supports my arguements and discredits your character and integrity.

If you choose to simply dismiss relative comments from enthusiasts with advanced degrees, real world automotive industry experience and certifications, then that is your choice. I sense many will re-think their purchases after reading this thread. I only hope you consider being more honest with folks.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Sorry this is getting further off topic, but these words are so far from the truth. I've been dealing with Josh (Excelerate) for 5 years, me as a customer, he as a vendor. I've been involved with the aftermarket community for over double that length of time. I can tell you that I've come across many performance shops that are dishonest and have poor integrity.

With that said, I never hesitate to call up Excelerate for not only a price on a part, but his opinion as well. I don't just hand out trust to people, they have to earn it. After 5 years, he is the first I go to because of his service, experience, and honesty.

I've put a lot of parts to real life tests on my 2G CL, and I relay my experiences and own research. As I've said, I've had these motors open on benches with engine builders who ONLY work on Honda motors for high horsepower applications. No offense, but I tend to believe the guys with grease on their hands, not a pencil pusher.

Acura Jeff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acura Jeff
With all due respect, it seems very suspicious someone new with only a couple of postings jumps into a debate that is going 60 MPH. Even more interesting is the fact you immediately align yourself with the supplier and target Dave and myself. Seems a little odd since you claim you are just thinking about picking up a TL.

How do you explain this behavior?

What is your experience?


For some reason you continue to evade my questions and throw up smoke. What is preventing you from answering the questions?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I wasn't clear in my last post.

Stay on topic. You all have been warned. Next post about 'profits' gets a 2 week temp ban.

Acura Jeff

I am sorry to hear that you feel that you learned nothing in this thread. Many realize you failed to address the questions posed and just asked a question back or threw up smoke.

With all that aside, several have taken time from their families to educate you in hopes that you would learn something.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Here I was thinking that all of us have been very patient with you engineers. Just FYI I have a Bachelor of Science in Business Management; I learned how to work on cars because I enjoyed installing my own parts and I love to learn but you guys have gone far beyond the scope of anything I have seen. Trying to assert that there is a correlation between profitability and a pulley being a damper is pretty desperate sounding if you ask me. Anyways, sad to see this once informative thread come to this.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

If anybody has anything significant to add to this thread regarding the topic, PM me or one of the other mods and we will add it to the thread since it is a thread from the 3G Garage.