I hate cars

I agree with your choice to let the dealer replace and then switch to type F.

What I absolutely can't stand is the dealer saying he had never seen a flare before. Unbelievable. And now he wants to send a snapshot to corporate over a simple flare.... This is basic elementary transmission failure, no need whatsoever to send this off for a decision. All it's going to show is an incorrect gear ratio when comparing two sensors in the power flow, one before and one after the failing clutch pack.

Anyway, what you're seeing is the normal failure mode. Shudder is the clutches slipping and grabbing, sometimes several times a second. Once the shudder wears the clutches enough, they no longer slip and grab, they just slip which is the flare you're seeing. Most of the people that switched the the Type F when they felt shudder stopped the wear at that point and increased the holding power which stopped the shudder, but you can see why I'm surprised there have not been more failures even on the type f since once you feel the shudder, the clutches are worn and one step from a flare and bad slippage. Was that a run-on sentence lol.

One thing you might want to run by them is a reminder to flush the cooler since there's a lot of clutch material floating around and hopefully they do the switches too.

turtlecivic

iTrader: (2)

I have a question has anybody tried the new Honda DW-1 transmission fluid? I'm near my 60k mark and I just want some feedback on the fluid if not I'm going with D4.

I hate cars

Several people have. Search.

turtlecivic

iTrader: (2)

Thank you for the quick reply. I have one more question is it better to do 3x3 with Redline or can I do 2x2 with Honda dw1 and then 1 fill with Redline or it doesn't matter?

I hate cars

You can mix any of these fluids but it's a waste of money to use one as a stepping stone. The primary purpose of DW1 is fuel economy. It might get you .5mpg if you're lucky. It's a thinner fluid to meet the increasing demands of CAFE. There are a couple reasons to think it might have less FM which is a good thing but no one knows for sure.

But here's the thing, even D4 is a stepping stone, IMO there's no reason to run it in a TL when you have the racing fluid. Sure, D4 is much better than Z1 or DW1 but why use that when you can reduce wear even more with the racing fluid.

If the only choices are the Honda fluid or D4 I would do 100% D4. It doesn't have to be Redline, any of the DexIII fluid will work well.

turtlecivic

iTrader: (2)

I would like to say thank you for providing a lot of information about TL transmission. I'm going to go with Type F fluid instead. I'm just using the Honda tranny fluid just to put in and flush. So let me rephrase what I wanted to say. Should I fill and flush with Redline 3 times or just use fill and flush twice with Honda tranny fluid and fill with Redline? Does this make sense?

LaCostaRacer

^ Here's what I did last Saturday. I just did a single drain and fill with Redlline Type-F. The original fluid was Z1 like you and the shifts are noticeably better now. My change interval is 20K so I do another change at 60K miles in my case. The answer to your question might depend on how old your fluid is. If you have 40K+ on one fill, I would probably do a 3x3 with Redline to get the Z1 crap out of the tranny. If you have less miles, then a 1x3 at 7-10K intervals may be an economical compromise if you're working on the car yourself and doing the motor oil anyway.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

IHC, do you think:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...___#fragment-1

Is ok? Similar to D4? Basically Mobil 1 "Synthetic" ATF. Reason I ask is because I had a AAP coupon and would like to use it.

I hate cars

They're both DexIII equivalents so shift feel will be somewhat close between the two.

Timb227

iTrader: (3)

Not sure if this has been answered, but does the car have to be level when draining out the old?

I hate cars

Level or slanted toward the driver's side would be best.

jda123

After 20K of using this I had no wear on my drain plug. It might not be as good as the F, but it sure is a lot better than the Z1.

I did a 1x3 with the RR to see for myself which is better and the shifts are the same as the Mobil 1 except for at WOT.

I hate cars

Agreed.

Inaccurate did a direct comparison when he switched from M1 to type F at the beginning of this thread.

While it might not be the "best", it's so much better than Z1.

CubanLynx84

iTrader: (2)

don't you mean jacked up on the driver's side considering the plug is on the passenger side of the tranny? assuming it's a 5AT of course.

Also I just picked up the switches, I'm at 35K so I figured I might as well do it as preventive maintenance.

FirePR2002

plug is on the driver side on the 2G TL, fwiw.

CubanLynx84

iTrader: (2)

^^I meant it for the 3G...sorry for not stating that before.

FirePR2002

why would you - this is the 3g forum. i was simply stating it for the 2G readers here - many of us are learning from you guys on things like this.

Inaccurate

After just one fill (1x3) with the Racing, you will not feel too much difference. The bulk of the difference is felt after the second fill (2x3).

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ. I noticed a difference after my very first fill with Racing. Prior to it I had 100% Honda-Z4. I noticed less of a difference after the second fill. But then again, I'm talking about differences in everyday driving situations -- basically I noticed quicker gear engagement... and no more shudder!

Inaccurate

jhumbo,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I will amend my previous statement to say the first or second fill will provided the biggest difference.

I based my previous comment on both times that I have changed fluid types in my TL.

Back when my car was less than a year old (I purchased it new), I changed the oem fluid to Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. I remember that I noticed the biggest change after the second fill.

And the second time I switched fluid types was when I started using the Redline Racing ATF. The biggest change for me was after the second fill.

So for other readers - based on jhumbo experiences and mine, the first or second fill will provided the biggest difference.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Thank you IHC for the response.

One last question. I went to AAP today and saw Valvoline Type F ATF at a ridiculously low price of $4.19 a quart. Is it really "Type F" aka no FM? Or did they just name it that?

Inaccurate

^ Yes. It is really a Type-F with no FM.

Type-F ATF can be either regular petroleum or a synthetic. Just like engine oil can be either petroleum or a synthetic.

The Valvoline Type-F ATF is not expensive because it is a petroleum fluid. Whereas, the Redline Racing ATF is an extremely high grade synthetic fluid.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Oh ok.

Is there a noticeable difference between a petroleum fluid and synthetic in a tranny?

Reading this thread, most cause of concern for our trannies was the FM. I don't want to go to "Petroleum" fluid if it will harm the tranny. I was just curious and if it was similar in quality to the Redline F.

Inaccurate

The oem Z1 ATF is a petroleum fluid. And most likely, the Valvoline Type-F ATF is a better quality petroleum fluid than the Z1 petroleum fluid. Thus, the Valvoline Type-F ATF should be ok based on conjecture.

Is there a noticeable difference between a petroleum fluid and synthetic in our tranny? I do not know. The only way to see is to use the Valvoline Type-F ATF for several thousand miles and then look at the drain plug. We know that the Z1 usually produces metal needles on the drain plug. I would expect (based on a hunch) for the Valvoline Type-F ATF to offer better protection than the Z1. But, the Redline FOR SURE is offering the maximum protection possible. Thus, the reason for the Redline being double the price.

If you want to give the Valvoline Type-F ATF a try, I am fairly certain that it will not harm your trans. At the worst, the Valvoline Type-F ATF might exhibit drivability issues (such as shudder). But, you can drain the Valvoline out without any permanent damage.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Oh I see. Thanks Innac. How did you like the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF? I am in the same boat as you were a while back by goin to the local AAP store for ATF. Was shifting similar to the Racing ATF?

Thanks!

Inaccurate

If you are concern about the long-term life of your trans, the Redline Racing makes a huge difference over the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF.

Before using the Racing ATF, I was running pure Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF for many miles and many years.

But after seeing *the lack of* worn-away clutch material on the magnetic drain plug (seen as black slime) compared to what I normally seen on my drain plug with Mobil 1, the Redline Racing made me a firm believer.

With the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, I never had metal needles on the drain plug. However, there was still clutch wear.

Although Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is better than Z1, the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF still allows some wear on the clutches. Off the top of my head, I would estimate that the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF would reduce the clutch wear (compared to Z1) by half. So if you use Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, the clutches are wearing at half of the rate.

However with Redline Racing fluid, little to no clutch wear is occurring. I would estimate that Redline Racing fluid reduces approx 90-95% of the clutch wear compared to Z1.

I highly recommend that you forego the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF and get either the Redline Racing fluid or Valvoline Type-F ATF. Because the biggest issue with our trans is to stop that clutch wear, and only a Type-F can do that.

Difference in shifting between Redline Racing and Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF? Night and day difference. Although I had thought that the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF was the cat's meow (compared to Z1), I now know that the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is nothing compared to the shifting performance of the Redline Racing.

To express how I feel that each fluid had improved the shifting performance of the trans, I offer this below to express my feelings -

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF has 30% quicker shifting speed than Z1.
Redline Racing ATF has 75% quicker shifting speed than Z1.

If I am understanding you correctly, then let me add the following. You mentioned that you want a fluid that you can purchase at your local auto parts store. Because you want to change the ATF periodically? If this is the case, I would recommend that you spend the money to get the Redline Racing (3x3) and never change the fluid again.

With Redline Racing ATF in your trans for the next 200,000 miles (without ever being changed) would still be MUCH better than having either the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF or Valvoline Type-F ATF being changed every 3,000 miles. That is how great the Redline Racing is

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Wow. Thanks for all the information. Well screw local auto parts stores, Redline Racing ATF here I come! You made me a firm believer. Now let's hope everything goes well. Ordering it today. Did you order it off Amazon? Was planning to do a 3x3 then waiting about 3k miles to do a 1x3 to assure that all old fluids are gone!

Inaccurate

Several people mentioned that they got theirs from eBay (with mixed results).

I have always ordered mine directly from the RedLine website.

RedLine Website (click here)

What is better than a 3x3? A 4x3. Good plan

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I may check there authorized dealer list to see if they have Racing

ArthurL

iTrader: (4)

Is there a noticeable difference if you did a 4x3 compared to a 3x3?

boomersooner02000

Some posted a couple of pages back u can get it here http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Red-.../64914/Cat/140 for $119 shipped. Look online for $5 coupon code to use. This is cheaper than Amazon, but not sure about ebay. I haven't looked there in a while. I'm ordering some later today when I get home and it's going to replace the D4 that I put in about a year ago.

Inaccurate

No difference after Fill #3. Beyond Fill #3, it is purely psychological comfort in knowing that you have a high percentage of the good stuff in your trans.

Fill #1 and Fill #2 produced the bulk of the changes.

Fill #3 made a small difference, notably making the shifts quicker during light throttle.

I am still on Fill #4. I noticed no changes when I did the Fill #4.

However, it should be noted that I previously had 100% Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in my trans before switching to the Redline Racing ATF.

So for me going from Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF to Racing, I reaped all of the benefits by doing a 3x3.

For someone going from Z1 to Redline Racing, would they get the full benefits from the Racing fluid after just a 3x3? Probably a 3x3 would do it..... with a small chance that it would take a fourth fill (4x3) to get that crappy Z1 out of the mixture. If it was me, I would do a 4x3 to make darn sure that all of that FM from the Z1 is out of the trans. On the other hand, I will not be completely happy until I reach 100% Racing. Just for the psychological benefit. I have another 6 fills to reach a 100%. I will be doing a fill every time I do an engine oil change.

SpiderX1016

So after 2,500 miles. This is my last 1x3 of the 3x3.
I'm kind of surprised at how much material was on the drain plug but I'm not too worried about it.

Fresh23

iTrader: (2)

With the car jacked like that did you get out 3 quarts? I was planning on putting jack stands all around, but if that worked for you then I might have a change of plans.

Inaccurate

I would attribute this to the 35% of old fluid remaining in the trans at the time that you did this drain. This old fluid still has worn clutch material being held in suspension.

Or another way of saying it - At the time of this drain, you still had 35% of the old crude (worn away clutch material) still in the trans. And, it found it way to the drain plug due to the magnetism.

SpiderX1016

I usually jack up one side cause it's more convenient for me then I lower the jack after I get the drain plug off so the car is level.
I use just one jack stand for safety.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So I wasn't too worried about it. Hopefully next time I'll see better results.

LaCostaRacer

My guess is the wear is normal. The magnet attracts wear material but it will work best with the car stopped. There is a bunch of old fluid in the Torque Convertor that the magnet won't attract. The only way to get all the wear out is to do a complete 3x3 change. My guess is the plug will get better and better every change and especially with the Redline in it.

joelmatt89

iTrader: (1)

just did a 3x3 today with redline type f, i didn't notice any metal on my plug there was a little of that black material. I think it was because the fluid was just changed 17k ago but it was always done at the dealer so it was z1. I got the type f fluid from race mart if anyone else is looking for somewhere to by they were cheapest I could find and their standard shipping was cheap and it came in only two business days. I also changed my filter and 3rd and 4th gear sensors. Like everyone else said it shifts like it is brand new now. You can notice it shifting when the radio is off just by hearing rpms drop but with the radio on and not looking at the rpms it is very hard to tell. Thanks a lot everyone who contributed to this thread.

Inaccurate

"Shifting like it was new" is an insult. The TL shift terrible when new or otherwise (unless it has Redline Racing). I know that you meant to communicate that the car shifts much better. But, I couldn't resist pointing this out.

I hate cars

Good to have you back in this thread. Agreed on your last 50 posts or so lol.