i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

honestly this is the the next thing i'm gonna try. I'm not giving up on the bucking issue and when my bonus drops next month, the first thing I'm buying is a 3.7 TL throttle body to replace my ZDX and see if that helps, because you have always mentioned that you don't experience the same problems that we do with our ZDX tb's

sucks that it's a more expensive TB if you buy the 3.7 TL one, but at this point I'd rather try it as opposed to continually being angry every time I drive my car

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ thats what I have been thinking....

if you can get an wiring diagram of the connectors it would explain better....

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

can you confirm the part number?

I'm looking at 16400-RK2-A01

jauman

iTrader: (4)

honestly I don't think it's the wiring, I really think it has to do with the black box on the side of the body. I think that they're just set up differently on the inside.

I wondered if I would be able to take the black Box off of my 3.2 body and swap it on to the 3.7 throttle body. Has anyone tried that yet?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

here was my order from Acura....

I believe I gave this list to sonnick and he has not had an issue as well:

16400-RKG-A01 2011 TL SHAWD Qty:1 - Throttle Body (includes MAP sensor, Oring washer, etc)
95701-08060-08 2011 TL SHAWD Qty: 4 - Throttle Body Bolts
17140-RK1-A01 2011 TL SHAWD Qty: 1 - Intake Manifold Cover (includes Bypass Valve, Bore Plate, etc)
17160-RK2-A00 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 1 - Intake Manifold
17181-RCJ-A00 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 1 - EGR Pipe
92900-06014-0B - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 2 - Bolts
95701-06035-08 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 2 - Bolts
95701-08065-08 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 7 - Bolts
90104-RCJ-A00 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 10 - Bolts
90201-P8E-A00 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 2 - Nuts
94050-08080 - 2011 TL SHAWD Qty 2 - Nuts

wilztlxs

iTrader: (8)

i have the ZDX TB and have been running this setup for nearly 3 weeks now with no issues with idle or bucking.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

interesting. I wonder if there's something to do with the fact that both you and Anil are on the base 3.2 platform and I'm on the 3.5 ECU ?

jauman

iTrader: (4)

[2UOTE=wilzrsx;14758698]i have the ZDX TB and have been running this setup for nearly 3 weeks now with no issues with idle or bucking.[/QUOTE]

I've been noticing throughout this entire thread that the people who own 2004-2006 do not have an issue, so to speak, with the the ZDX TB. However I also noted that most of the people who have 2007-2008 are having issues with the ZDX throttle body. That's only what I've noticed through this thread and other people that I have privately messaged. I'm not saying all this with a hundred percent certainty, but I'm starting to think this may be the case.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yeah I think that is something to thing about...

J-man...sending you a text in a little bit

jauman

iTrader: (4)

I am Not sure that the 3.7 TL TB will work on a 2007-2008 because I haven't met anyone that has put the 3.7 TL TB on their 2007-2008. Swoosh has a 3.7 TL TB, but again his is on a 2005 tl

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Can't be the difference.... I'm running a 3.2 ECU and am having the same issues your having, they are 3.2's without issues.... keep in mind I'm an 07-08.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

well i'm definitely gonna try it. 550 bucks down the crapper potentially, but I'm out of options at this point. My cams will run like shit if I go back to a 3.5 manifold/TB.

The electronic control code on the ZDX is different from the TL, so there is potential. GMD8B vs GMD8C

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

I have a ZDX TB on my 3.5 with no issues...

jauman

iTrader: (4)

I've been thinking about running new cams, what kind of cams are you running on your ride? Are they more for low end, mid range high end? how are aggressive are they?

anyway, back to the topic at hand. What is the electric control code about anyway?

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

that doesn't make much sense to me. we have the same car. either it works or it doesn't - this isn't something that would just magically vary across '07 type-s 6mt's. Our intake mods are basically the same, although that's somewhat irrelevant given the issue isn't at WOT but rather when cruising at a consistent speed with 1-3% throttle pressure and then bucking when letting off the gas pedal.

unless you have some magic in your FP tune - if you send me your calibration I can compare to mine.

you should probably check out my build thread, lol. Cam specs and dyno charts are in there - it is an aggressive profile "Stage 3", with torque matching the low-end of the stock cam, less in the midrange, and bananas above 5500. I redline at 7100 though. The car really comes alive above 5500.

the control code is just something I noticed being different between the 3.7 TL and ZDX throttle bodies. Whether or not it would make any different i have no idea.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Anytime I hear of "bucking" when letting off the throttle, the Idle Air Control Valve comes to mind. My personal experiences with the car jerking somewhat violently when letting off the throttle all came from a disgruntle IACV. It makes rev matching a nightmare. It's attached to the throttle body right underneath. Easy to get to, easy to clean.

Hope this helps.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Can you take a video of what you experience? I will take a video of me driving in all possible throttle scenarios so you can see the difference.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

WHOA! There was a fix for that?

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Normally you would be right. However, The 3rd Generation TL does not have a IACV.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

What's the link? I've been searching for it, can't find it. THanks.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

mmm, perhaps its vacuum related then. Double check the TB gaskets, maybe even use a little bit of sealant around the edges of the gaskets.


Is the TB a direct bolt on or does it require the P2R TB adapter?

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

The IACV is both mechanical and electrical. The valve inside sometimes becomes stuck (open or closed) from carbon build up, which a parts cleaner can fix. Just do not apply the parts cleaner to the electrical portion of the IACV. If cleaning it does not work, then buying a new one is the 2nd way to go. Its 2 screws that holds it underneath to the TB.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Had a smoke test done already, no vacuum leaks.

Yes the TB is a direct bolt on, not adapter required.

Secondly, there are way to many of us that have installed the NEW TB's and all of us have the same symptoms. There's no way we could all have vacuum leaks.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

With the ones of us that have all installed this same mod, there's no way that we can all have carbon build up on our new throttle bodies.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Correct ^ No way everyone would have the exact same vacuum leak.

I was referring to someone that had asked about the IACV carbon build up, which apparently does not apply to your generation engines.

Mmmm, I'll see what I can come up with. I'm curious myself now why everyone has this issue.

wilztlxs

iTrader: (8)

just throwing this out there, the ones having issues, do you have the EGR pipe installed?

i have it installed and noticed in swoosh's parts list, he has it as well.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Yes, I have the EGR installed. ... I am one of the ones with issues (ZDX TB) Swoosh has 2011 TL SHAWD TB. (just for clarification of thread.)

jauman

iTrader: (4)

What's the difference between:
2014 TL Base 3.7 TB (16400-RK2-A01 $142)
and what swoosh has
2011 TL 3.7 SHAWD TB (16400-RKG-A01 $505)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ difference is one works and one doesnt


j/k

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Can you unplug the Coolant Temp Sensor and see if you can replicate any of the following;

"If it still cold and you unplug it will probably die. Slowly with a lot of sputtering and coughing.

If its hot and you unplug it the idle will change a bit. I think it goes a bit higher than normal."

^ the above is not my wording but it was a form of testing to check if the idle screw was the culprit.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Actually both of the TB's listed in post 708 are 3.7 TB's but neither of them are the one I bought according to this thread (1st pg - ZDX 16400-RYE-A11 $195). The ZDX is the one that most of us are having the issues with.

The P/N I listed in 708 are from a 3.7 TL. Why are they different from each other?

BTW, What was the P/N of the TB you bought?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^

the one that i listed earlier on this page...

jauman

iTrader: (4)

As per I_Love_Cars qoute in post 678 the Idle Set screw was adjusted to the correct voltage .... still no change.

To get the whole picture it may do some good to read through this whole thread (of course skipping some of the Dyno Post....) Reading through will really help you get the true bigger picture.

Thanks for your input however. One extra brain is always better than one less.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Duh, I forgot you gave your parts list earlier ... Smack myself. lol.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

I'll admit, I sped read through the pages looking for key words. I'll take it slower and see what comes to mind. I'd assume everyone has checked the throttle position sensor as well then.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

Dang Swoosh, You spent a Grand on this Mod? I spent like $428. Guess you get what you pay for....

My Order (of course I reused quite a bit of nuts and bolts from my OEM setup)

$227.74 - 17160-RK2-A00 Manifold
$195.10 - 16400-RYE-A11 ZDX TB
$0.48 - 16176-RYE-A10 TB Gasket
$1.74 - 92900-08050-3B 8x50 Stud (2qty)
$1.86 - 95701-08060-08 8x60 Bolt Flange (2qty)
$0.38 - 94050-08080 8mm Nut Flange (2qty)

DomGSR-T

iTrader: (1)

From all the hours I have spent trying to fix the bucking issues, I came to some conclusions... It's NOT link to ZDX TB, the bocking/jerking occurs on high vacuum engine (from real modifications) for an unknown reason the AUTO TL are not affected by this... If I run my car with the stock 3.5TB I still have jerking issues. I could not fix this with the flashpro. Also my stock MAP sensors does not read below -23psi(inches mercury). The ecu shoots a small amount of gas while gas should be 100% closed on deceleration. I tried another MAP (hondata 4bar) and now it reads lower than stock and it's smoother once tuned with the flashpro... But I still get 20-25% jerking... better than before but still very annoying. Hondata finally found a solution to this problem from the 1.7.0 beta release:

[2006 Civic Si] Added parameter to enable full closure of throttle plate on deceleration&throttle opening vs flow table.[2012+ Civic Si, ILX] Added minimum throttle opening compensation table to allow for full closure of throttle plate on deceleration.

But it's not available for TL I'm confident that this will fix our problem and solve the rev hang at the same time...

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Here's some pics to describe it...

Butterflies in the IMT completely open - notice the set screws and the position of the brass stopper piece that sits underneath the gear (removed) that is driven by the IMT solenoid.



Butterflies in the completely closed position. Notice how the factory set screw sets the position of the completely closed spot, the rest of the seal around the butterflies is made with a spray molykote stuff (the grayish black stuff on the butterflies and on the backside of the throttle plate in the throttle body).



Here's a pic of where the set screw is on the ZDX throttle body, notice the half-rounded part just below it and how the end of that semi-circle meets up with the center of the throttle plate shaft. I'm pretty sure adjusting that screw is going to change the range that the throttle plate is physically allowed to move.



The electronic throttle actuator and throttle position sensor are inside the black box on the side of the throttle body.

The other electronic bits to this circuit, excluding the ECM are the APP sensor and the throttle actuator control module (is located behind the glove box).

I was trying to find last night where the .88V setting came from in the service manual and couldn't find anything. Doesn't seem to show how to calibrate that set screw on the throttle body at all.

Could always try doing the APP sensor adjustment in the service manual

This is a road I'll be crossing soon too myself once I finally install these parts if I end up with the bucking, I'm on an '05.

jauman

iTrader: (4)

That's not quite true. I'm having all the same issues with my '08 3.2 TL 5AT. As well as some others I know.

What baffles me is that some have installed the same parts with no problems from the get go. So if it's programing why are some cars affected and some aren't... wouldn't it be ALL affected until changed with FlashPro, Hondata, Hondata 4 bar etc?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

ROFL...yeah i ended up spending a grand on this LOL...

I did reuse most of my bolts as well but I just wanted to have new ones just incase....I ended up returning some bolts though....