My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
11-22-2013, 08:34 AM
#761
Senior Moderator
P384 is what your talking about?
http://www.powerrevracing.com/04-08-...ter-p/p384.htm
Like others have mentioned this is the reverse of what we are looking for. We want to bolt up our stock 3.2/3.5 TB to a 3.7 Manifold. ...so the P384 will not work.
Who ever mentioned it is right, P2R probably could make this since they already have made the reverse product and they already have the specs.
http://www.powerrevracing.com/04-08-...ter-p/p384.htm
Like others have mentioned this is the reverse of what we are looking for. We want to bolt up our stock 3.2/3.5 TB to a 3.7 Manifold. ...so the P384 will not work.
Who ever mentioned it is right, P2R probably could make this since they already have made the reverse product and they already have the specs.
http://www.powerrevracing.com/01-03-...old-p/p383.htm
This is on the 2nd gen TL (with a Blox 76 mm tb which uses the stock bolt pattern). The TB holes are the same as yours making your throttle body able to bolt up to the 09im
Last edited by fsttyms1; 11-22-2013 at 08:42 AM.
11-22-2013, 09:26 AM
#762
Burning Brakes
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awesome, thanks for the clarification on the bolt pattern for that adapter.
My parts arrive today, so if this works, the P2R adapter will be a great option for people with bucking issues looking to revert to a stock TB.
as long as I can source the hardware needed tomorrow, I'll be testing the adapter out right away tomorrow and will report back.
My parts arrive today, so if this works, the P2R adapter will be a great option for people with bucking issues looking to revert to a stock TB.
as long as I can source the hardware needed tomorrow, I'll be testing the adapter out right away tomorrow and will report back.
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11-25-2013, 12:53 PM
#763
Does the P383 comes with the thermal gasket?
After reading all 20 pages in one sit(took me a couple hours) i decided to go with just the 3.7 IM with spacer but i need to order the right part. Or who else make it.
After reading all 20 pages in one sit(took me a couple hours) i decided to go with just the 3.7 IM with spacer but i need to order the right part. Or who else make it.
11-27-2013, 09:29 AM
#764
Burning Brakes
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Overall good news.
Finally got my 3.7 gasket yesterday for the manifold side of the adapter, and went to work installing the adapter and 3.5 TB last night. Very tight squeeze to fit the adapter and TB in there along with my v2 intake.
The car is driving better already, and today during lunch I'm going to run the HDS on the throttle body. One thing I immediately noticed is that there is no more tip-in when cruising down the highway at 2-3% throttle, where the car would sometimes jerk forward.
First gear now feels like a normal first gear, where it's a bit buckish if you let off especially if the clutch is cold, but nothing abnormally violent like it was doing before. 4th, 5th, and 6th gear are now perfect when letting off the gas. 2nd and 3rd can still be hit or miss. We'll see what calibrating it does today.
Next week if I can i'm gonna get in for a dyno pull. May need to tweak the tune slightly. Not yet sure where AFR is at with being back on the 3.5 TB now.
Finally got my 3.7 gasket yesterday for the manifold side of the adapter, and went to work installing the adapter and 3.5 TB last night. Very tight squeeze to fit the adapter and TB in there along with my v2 intake.
The car is driving better already, and today during lunch I'm going to run the HDS on the throttle body. One thing I immediately noticed is that there is no more tip-in when cruising down the highway at 2-3% throttle, where the car would sometimes jerk forward.
First gear now feels like a normal first gear, where it's a bit buckish if you let off especially if the clutch is cold, but nothing abnormally violent like it was doing before. 4th, 5th, and 6th gear are now perfect when letting off the gas. 2nd and 3rd can still be hit or miss. We'll see what calibrating it does today.
Next week if I can i'm gonna get in for a dyno pull. May need to tweak the tune slightly. Not yet sure where AFR is at with being back on the 3.5 TB now.
11-27-2013, 02:31 PM
#765
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eager to see the results...
11-27-2013, 02:37 PM
#766
Suzuka Master
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I'm guessing it'll be well within the margin of dyno error, and probably 1whp in the real world. If he was running a 4" intake, it might be slightly more.
11-27-2013, 06:34 PM
#767
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He only gained 7 whp from the 3.7 manifold and TB together, so he's certainly not going to lose 10-12 just by switching back to the 3.5 TB.
I'm guessing it'll be well within the margin of dyno error, and probably 1whp in the real world. If he was running a 4" intake, it might be slightly more.
I'm guessing it'll be well within the margin of dyno error, and probably 1whp in the real world. If he was running a 4" intake, it might be slightly more.
i am scheduled for the dyno next week on Wednesday morning, btw.
recalibrated today and everything seems within the margin of what i expect for how the car is currently set up. I do know there are some things that the tuner at King was playing around with to try and fix the bucking with the 3.7 TB, so when i go in next week, I will have that re-evaluated, as well.
for now i'm just glad the damn tip-in is gone
11-27-2013, 08:32 PM
#768
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^^^ ILC do you mind listing all your mods? pretty please...
11-28-2013, 02:03 AM
#769
Suzuka Master
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correct. Power loss will be negligible. My v2 intake is the same diameter as the current TB that i just put on. Most of the gains I got were from the manifold because it's smoother and flows better to begin with compared to the stock 3.5 manifold.
i am scheduled for the dyno next week on Wednesday morning, btw.
recalibrated today and everything seems within the margin of what i expect for how the car is currently set up. I do know there are some things that the tuner at King was playing around with to try and fix the bucking with the 3.7 TB, so when i go in next week, I will have that re-evaluated, as well.
for now i'm just glad the damn tip-in is gone
i am scheduled for the dyno next week on Wednesday morning, btw.
recalibrated today and everything seems within the margin of what i expect for how the car is currently set up. I do know there are some things that the tuner at King was playing around with to try and fix the bucking with the 3.7 TB, so when i go in next week, I will have that re-evaluated, as well.
for now i'm just glad the damn tip-in is gone
I do have some minor annoyances with the 3.7 TB, but they're not bad enough to bother trying to rectify them. Still looking forward to seeing what happens with yours.
11-28-2013, 09:16 AM
#770
Burning Brakes
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mods related to engine performance, it's pretty straightforward.
flashpro
aem v2
3.7 manifold w/adapter for 3.5 tb
pnp runners (using an oem IM gasket, btw)
bisi springs/retainers
3/5 valve job intake/exhaust
stage 3 cam regrind from Web
pnp / decked j35a8 heads
rv6 pcd with "Jordan-proof bracing", as Richie put it, welded on the rear pipe
rv6 jpipe
atlp v2 quads
unorthodox UDP
xlr8 mounts
1 blown xlr8 ETD thanks to massive bucking
comptech short throw
yeah i mean once you stiffen up suspension and engine mounts, and especially if you haven't ever replaced the bushings for the transmission mounts for the manual, you're likely to have some of that jerking once the car is worked over on the engine side.
mine is still now driving way better than it was a few days ago. I'm no long concerned about having my PCD shear in half again anymore, lol.
flashpro
aem v2
3.7 manifold w/adapter for 3.5 tb
pnp runners (using an oem IM gasket, btw)
bisi springs/retainers
3/5 valve job intake/exhaust
stage 3 cam regrind from Web
pnp / decked j35a8 heads
rv6 pcd with "Jordan-proof bracing", as Richie put it, welded on the rear pipe
rv6 jpipe
atlp v2 quads
unorthodox UDP
xlr8 mounts
1 blown xlr8 ETD thanks to massive bucking
comptech short throw
I agree that most of the gains come from the manifold rather than the throttle body, and I think the gains are probably a bit higher for the 3.0 and 3.2. I think the 3.5 manifold probably flows a bit better than the other two to begin with.
I do have some minor annoyances with the 3.7 TB, but they're not bad enough to bother trying to rectify them. Still looking forward to seeing what happens with yours.
I do have some minor annoyances with the 3.7 TB, but they're not bad enough to bother trying to rectify them. Still looking forward to seeing what happens with yours.
mine is still now driving way better than it was a few days ago. I'm no long concerned about having my PCD shear in half again anymore, lol.
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12-02-2013, 09:09 PM
#773
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thanks brother....how does 320whp feel? 
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12-04-2013, 03:09 PM
#779
Burning Brakes
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F my life.
Spent several hours at King today, 1 hour on the phone with Matt over at Hondata.
As I noted earlier - going back to the 3.5 TB definitely fixed the tip-in issues I was having. The only real remaining problem was that when letting off the gas at certain RPM's from cruising speed - let's say 2500-3k rpm in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear, you would still get some abnormal jerking, over and above what you should expect from a manual trans car, which will inherently always have some of that.
After some data log inspection, it became very obvious where the issue lies - there is, on average, a 5% difference between the TPedal and TPlate levels. They should be in line with one another in a normal application, but the difference we're seeing is upwards of 8 or 9%. When the gas pedal is completely let off at 0%, the throttle plate is still reading 4-5%.
Upon closer inspection by Hondata, what Matt was seeing was that the plate would close just as it should when the gas pedal is released, however, it would then open back up. It's important to note that we had not adjusted any of the fuel injector overrun cutoff settings in Flashpro, now or in the past. It's all at stock settings. In fact tweaking that just makes things worse, lol.
We are waiting on Doug to take a look at the logs and respond in the next day or two.
Hopefully more info still to come.
Spent several hours at King today, 1 hour on the phone with Matt over at Hondata.
As I noted earlier - going back to the 3.5 TB definitely fixed the tip-in issues I was having. The only real remaining problem was that when letting off the gas at certain RPM's from cruising speed - let's say 2500-3k rpm in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear, you would still get some abnormal jerking, over and above what you should expect from a manual trans car, which will inherently always have some of that.
After some data log inspection, it became very obvious where the issue lies - there is, on average, a 5% difference between the TPedal and TPlate levels. They should be in line with one another in a normal application, but the difference we're seeing is upwards of 8 or 9%. When the gas pedal is completely let off at 0%, the throttle plate is still reading 4-5%.
Upon closer inspection by Hondata, what Matt was seeing was that the plate would close just as it should when the gas pedal is released, however, it would then open back up. It's important to note that we had not adjusted any of the fuel injector overrun cutoff settings in Flashpro, now or in the past. It's all at stock settings. In fact tweaking that just makes things worse, lol.
We are waiting on Doug to take a look at the logs and respond in the next day or two.
Hopefully more info still to come.
12-04-2013, 03:16 PM
#780
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there are 2 signals which go to our ECU...
1 is Throttle Position and the other is Relative Throttle Position....
I forget which one, but when you are off the throttle it reads a higher value....the other reads 0%....whereas when WOT (pedal pinned down), the one which read higher value now reads 100% and the one which read 0% now reads like 75 or 80%....you can see both these variables on the OBD2 port and via a BT dongle on torque/etc....
I will let you know the exact values and the signals tomorrow (am out of town and I get in later tonight, will drive my car from the airport to home and confirm)...
1 is Throttle Position and the other is Relative Throttle Position....
I forget which one, but when you are off the throttle it reads a higher value....the other reads 0%....whereas when WOT (pedal pinned down), the one which read higher value now reads 100% and the one which read 0% now reads like 75 or 80%....you can see both these variables on the OBD2 port and via a BT dongle on torque/etc....
I will let you know the exact values and the signals tomorrow (am out of town and I get in later tonight, will drive my car from the airport to home and confirm)...
12-04-2013, 03:24 PM
#781
Burning Brakes
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there are 2 signals which go to our ECU...
1 is Throttle Position and the other is Relative Throttle Position....
I forget which one, but when you are off the throttle it reads a higher value....the other reads 0%....whereas when WOT (pedal pinned down), the one which read higher value now reads 100% and the one which read 0% now reads like 75 or 80%....you can see both these variables on the OBD2 port and via a BT dongle on torque/etc....
I will let you know the exact values and the signals tomorrow (am out of town and I get in later tonight, will drive my car from the airport to home and confirm)...
1 is Throttle Position and the other is Relative Throttle Position....
I forget which one, but when you are off the throttle it reads a higher value....the other reads 0%....whereas when WOT (pedal pinned down), the one which read higher value now reads 100% and the one which read 0% now reads like 75 or 80%....you can see both these variables on the OBD2 port and via a BT dongle on torque/etc....
I will let you know the exact values and the signals tomorrow (am out of town and I get in later tonight, will drive my car from the airport to home and confirm)...
also, running the HDS HIM helped it a bit, but not terribly much. We did back to back logs before/after running it.
12-04-2013, 03:27 PM
#782
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cool...will let you know tomorrow bud
12-08-2013, 07:09 PM
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sorry for the delay but here you go:
I started the car and let her idle, thats the first pic....then I turned the car off (ign ON) and pinned the pedal and took the next shot....
dont mind the other gauges on there, I added 2 bigg gauges on a different page just for ya
hope that helps
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280790706/http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280790706/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/44051364@N00/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280741435/http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280741435/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/44051364@N00/, on Flickr
I started the car and let her idle, thats the first pic....then I turned the car off (ign ON) and pinned the pedal and took the next shot....
dont mind the other gauges on there, I added 2 bigg gauges on a different page just for ya
hope that helps
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280790706/http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280790706/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/44051364@N00/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280741435/http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/11280741435/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/44051364@N00/, on Flickr
12-09-2013, 10:11 AM
#786
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well am glad it does
so R THR or relative throttle is your TB butterfly and the Throttle seems to be the butterfly in the manifold....
so R THR or relative throttle is your TB butterfly and the Throttle seems to be the butterfly in the manifold....
12-09-2013, 12:51 PM
#787
Relative or learned throttle position. A throttle position sensor may never return to its minimum position, but instead closed throttle may always be greater than the TP Sensor’s absolute minimum. This throttle position gauge adjusts for this true closed throttle position. When the throttle is closed, this gauge will read 0% regardless of the details of the absolute throttle position. The relative position value is calculated as follows: Relative % = (TP output) – (TP output closed) X 100 (TP output max) Example: If the output of the TP is 1V when closed and 10 volt when wide open, an output of 5V would be: (5-1)/10*100 = 40% Note: This means that this gauge will likely never reach 100%
12-09-2013, 01:18 PM
#788
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umm yeah it will never be zero since the butterfly is never closed...at idle its ever so slightly opened and if you check the TB butterfly, its spring loaded and when you open it, it will never open completely as well....
again am just speaking from what I have seen, so please dont hesitate to correct me if am wrong....
again am just speaking from what I have seen, so please dont hesitate to correct me if am wrong....
12-09-2013, 02:03 PM
#789
umm yeah it will never be zero since the butterfly is never closed...at idle its ever so slightly opened and if you check the TB butterfly, its spring loaded and when you open it, it will never open completely as well....
again am just speaking from what I have seen, so please dont hesitate to correct me if am wrong....
again am just speaking from what I have seen, so please dont hesitate to correct me if am wrong....
12-30-2013, 09:40 AM
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anyone here logging anything from Torque or LM2?
I have been trying to see load and manifold pressure to tune the MS3 and the weird thing is, Torque shows manifold pressure as 2.7 (at idle) and Innovative LM2 via OBDII shows the MAP as 7.x at idle....
any clue?
I have been trying to see load and manifold pressure to tune the MS3 and the weird thing is, Torque shows manifold pressure as 2.7 (at idle) and Innovative LM2 via OBDII shows the MAP as 7.x at idle....
any clue?
01-01-2014, 09:50 AM
#795
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I tried converting from psi to kpa but its still off....
I might just go off the Load% for the tune...
I might just go off the Load% for the tune...
01-02-2014, 10:40 AM
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^^^ nice
we have been thinking of build an SHAWD MDX as the family car....
couple things I wanna do is:
turbo, port and polish manifold/TB/runners/heads, PCD's, Jpipe, Exhaust, Intake....
I bet the kids will never be late for a soccer game or school LOL
we have been thinking of build an SHAWD MDX as the family car....
couple things I wanna do is:
turbo, port and polish manifold/TB/runners/heads, PCD's, Jpipe, Exhaust, Intake....
I bet the kids will never be late for a soccer game or school LOL
01-25-2014, 03:31 PM
#798
I'm actually considering returning to stock 3.5 TB/IM. I don't understand how even after swapping back to the 3.5 TB you were still having the same issues. The biggest gripe I have of problems caused by the 3.7 setup is the sloppy shifting and how the RPMs don't immediately drop when I depress the clutch in between shifts. It feels sloppy and sounds like you're not taking your foot off of the throttle completely when shifting.
03-18-2014, 07:07 AM
#799
