Inaccurate

sure

Give me a day or two to compose the info.

CCColtsicehockey

thank you I appreciate it

Inaccurate

No mounting brackets (or other mechanical methods) were used. I felt that using just adhesive to hold the CF panel in place would be adequate. All oem windshields and rear windows are held in place using this same method (adhesive only). Since installing the CF panel, I had my car up to 100 mph on many occasions, and up to 120 mph twice. The panel hasn't been sucked out yet. And, no leaks.







Because I was relying on just the adhesive to affix the panel, I choose the adhesive carefully. I felt this particular product (in the two pics above) would give the best performance. I ordered the adhesive online because no local stores stocked it. I ordered several small tubes (2.7 oz.) and one large tube (Loctite PN# 59375) for the caulking gun (which I primarily used).







With the glass removed, you can see (in the two pics above) the sealing surface that the oem rubber seal presses against. This lip is approx 1/2 inch wide. I constructed the panel to have a matching lip, approx 1 inch wide. The pic below shows the lip (before sanding the edge smooth).





So that once the panel is in position (see pic below), the two opposing lips would form a gap to be filled with adhesive.






Below is another pic showing the gap before filling it with the adhesive.




Before placing the panel in place, 80-grit sandpaper was used to prepare the surface of the panel lip and the roof lip . The sanded areas were then wiped with alcohol to leave a oil-free surface.

Styrofoam blocks (in pic below) were used to support the panel while applying the adhesive and until the adhesive cured.



Before applying the adhesive, the styrofoam blocks were carefully positioned to make sure that the panel was flush with the roof (see pic below).




Below are two pics showing the adhesive up-close.

HQTL6SPD

i say have a shop prep the roof for painting, then overlay cf over the entire roof with a good clearcoat

I hate cars

Out of curiosity, have you tried triple digit speeds with the windows down?

Nice craftsmanship. It looks better than a lot of body shops would do.

Is noise about the same?

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure if he put wings on it .. it would definitely fly away.

Inaccurate

The runs were with the windows up. Thanks for the compliment on the craftsmanship. I spent over two hours just smoothing out the silicone bead for appearance sake. A lot of work went into it.

Surprisingly, the sound is identical to the glass. There is NO increase in sound in any manner. I am not aware that the glass is replaced with cf when driving the car. I thought that I would miss the view, but I don't. When it rains, the cf panel does sound different - like being in a metal-roofed building when it rains.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

put some dead skin on the cf panel and then put the same kind of material thats on your headliner on the dead skin, will quiet down the noise a bit and make it look cleaner

Inaccurate

There is NO increase in sound in any manner. I have no problem with sound.

omarb420

have you noticed gas improvement? if so how many extra miles are u getting. and what do u usuaully get to a full tank>

Inaccurate

Gas milage has improved for sure. I would estimate between 3 to maybe 5 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving (my daily commute).

Can't say how many miles to a FULL tank. I NEVER by a full tank - too damn heavy. I buy approx 4.0 gal every other day. At the end of that second day, the MID say "0 miles to empty".


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Aman

Just curious if the MID compensates for the extra mileage generated by less weight?

I hate cars

It should.

While it doesn't know the weight of the car, it knows how much fuel is being used vs miles driven. Assuming it's tied into the engine management computer, it's probably more accurate than calculating it yourself using mileage vs gallons at fillup.

Bearcat94

I think he means it'll change the tone when raining - from rain on a metal roofed building to ... uhhh .... something else.

Inaccurate

Thanks ^

The rain is not loud. I rather like being able to hear the rain hitting the roof.

Sorta creates a cozy feeling when it rains.

Inaccurate

I agree with I HATE CARS.

I HATE CARS - Thanks for taking the time to explain.

CCColtsicehockey

thanks for the details on how you installed this. Im really contemplating this as a winter project. Since it is completely reversible its really tempting.

Aman

thanks for the explanation.

Inaccurate: Have you considered lightweight brakes? Wheels and tires? suspension? CF hood? Jusdt a few ideas.

rp_guy

i have an idea for you. i took off my 2G mirrors and they weight about 2-3lbs each. there's a big heavy chunk of metal in them that holds the mirror in place when you fold it.

you can replace it with something like this:


and you can probably replace the auto dimming rear view with something that doesn't have a motor in it

Walshstl

Damn that looks like alot of money for a little bit of lbs. Would look cool though and match your Moonroof.

I hate cars

Just a little weight but it is at the highest point of the car so it probably helps with the CG more than it would seem.



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Inaccurate

<--- 65 lbs dynamic equivalent .....soon

In a few weeks. Nothing major, but it should bring my total to 28% dynamic weight reduction, and put me in the 2700's lbs category (2797 lbs dynamic equivalent). And bring the equivalent HP output (percieved) to 330 HP.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

holy shit, about 1000lbs. that thing must freaking FLY

joed40

We have all seen that 4x4, the one that is lifted 24", the one with the bumpers that are now 24" higher than intended. That truck will get fined for having an unsafe bumper height for the other vehicles on the road.

I realize that a bumper system is meant to absorb and transfer energy throughout the vehicle to decrease the impact of a crash. Don't you think the same system would also lessen the impact to another car as well? Instead of having a well braced and engineered bumper system t-boning your car, you now have a bare piece of frame puncturing your driver door. He may be comfortable making the modifications, but how about the person he will crash in to? I realize I am no engineer but this only makes sense.

Inaccurate

UPDATE

I GOT ANOTHER 26 POUNDS (66 dynamic lbs) OFF OF THE CAR !!!!!

:gheywave::gheywave:



Weight Reduction Since Last Update
-----------------------------------------------
22.0 Lightweight tires
4.0 Buy just 3.0 gallons at a time instead of 4.5 gallons
--------------------------------------------
26.0 lbs NET TOTAL REMOVED















Got lightweight tires. I got the Michelin PS2 because they are designed to be lightweight. Plus, the PS2 is highly rated for performance and very sticky.

I went with the 235/40-17 size to get the smallest diameter and lightest weight (24.4 inch and 21.0 lbs.). The small diameter tire has the following advantages:

1) Improved braking performance - the rotor has increased leverage against the road.

2) Improved holeshot acceleration - more favorable effective gearing.

3) More favorable Moment-of-Inertia - mass is located closer to the rotational axis (less flywheel effect).

4) Less weight - removing unsprung weight and greatly reducing dynamic weight.

Basically, it is just the opposite of the complaints that you normally hear regarding the performance-robbing 20-inch wheels.

As a side note, the oem rim + oem tire weighed 51.0 lbs. My current rim + PS2 tire weighs 35.5 lbs. That differnce will teach anyone of the value in reducing unsprung weight.

Regarding the fuel purchases. I had been buying gas every other day. Now, I buy gas each morning, every day. I moved recently and my daily commute increased from 50 miles to 75 miles per day (round trip). I did Not want to carry 50% more fuel and it's 50% more weight. Instead, I just switched to buying gas daily and reaping the slight weight savings.



Below are the numbers

From my "Why you should get 255/40-17 tires" thread, my oem tires weighed 26.5 lbs.
The 235/40-17 Michelin PS2 tires weigh 21.0 lbs.

26.5 lb oem tire - 21.0 lb Michelin PS2 tire = 5.5 lbs per tire
5.5 lbs per tire x 4 tires = 22.0 lbs static weight reduction
22.0 lbs static weight reduction x 3 Dynamic Factor = 66 lbs Dynamic weight reduction

For documentation purposes, I need to compare these lightweight tires to the oem tires. However for me, my weight reduction is more (off the record). My previous tires (when new) weighed 28.5 lbs per tire. So, I am saving 30.0 lbs static and 90 lbs dynamic.

Here is an interesting link (click here) of others discussing tire weight. So, it ain't just me.

Also found this little gem too at the same forum where the Porsche guys have their "Porsche Diet" (click here).


Thanks for allowing me to share my TL Diet with you !!!


"I'll be back"... to terminate more weight !!!






ITEMIZED LIST OF WEIGHT REDUCTION
-----------------------------------------------------
84.0 Racing Seats and racing restraint system (see Warning #3 below)
44.0 Reduced fuel (UPDATED = buy just 3.0 gallons at a time)
40.0 Rims
36.0 Rear seat delete
34.0 Spare tire (use lightweight 12V air pump)
31.0 Sunroof delete
27.5 Braille battery
23.0 Trunk panels
22.0 Lightweight tires
17.5 Parking brake and lever (see Warning #1 below)
17.0 Front bumper
16.0 Rear bumper
13.0 Radio delete
13.0 Personal weight loss (attributed to this project)
10.0 Front seat kick panels
9.0 Side curtain airbags (see Warning #2 below)
8.5 Mid muffler delete
8.5 Seatbelts for rear seat
8.0 CAI
7.5 Front damper
7.0 UR Crank pulley
6.5 Floor mats (now incls driver's too)
6.0 Engine bay panels
6.0 Rear seat arm rest
5.5 Subwoofer speaker
5.5 Ground effect panels
5.5 Rear deck
5.5 Center console armrest
4.0 Reduced wiper fluid (use 1 pint at a time)
3.7 Rear seat insulation
3.7 Rear speakers
3.5 Engine cradle damper
3.5 Small airbags in front seats (see Warning #2 below)
3.4 Glovebox delete
3.0 Megan pipe replacing oem 3rd cat
2.5 Glovebox plate
2.5 Innovative Mounts (engine mounts)
2.4 Owner manual
2.0 Roof console
2.0 Grab handles
1.8 Hood insulation
1.5 Trunk damper
1.5 Splash guards for front brake rotors
1.4 Kick panels under front dash
1.4 Footrest
1.2 Xm radio reciever
1.2 Misc (airbag brackets & antenna booster)
1.0 Exhaust heat shield
0.5 Coin holder & sunglass holders
0.5 Xm antenna
------------------------------------------------------------
565.2 Lbs TOTAL



DYNAMIC WEIGHT REDUCTION
----------------------------------------------
496 Static weight loss
120 Dynamic weight loss from rims
105 Dynamic weight loss from UR Pulley
66 Dynamic weight loss from lightweight tires
---------------------------------------------
787 Lbs DYNAMIC TOTAL



ESTIMATED WEIGHT
------------------------------------
3580 - 565 = 3015 Static
3580 - 787 = 2793 Dynamic



EQUIVALENT HP INCREASE
------------------------------------
(3580 lbs / 2793 lbs) x 258 hp = 331 HP (equivalent output)
331 hp - 258 hp = 73 HP (equivalent increase)

Note: This is not just a peak hp increase. This is
a 28.2% increase across entire rpm range
for both the HP and TORQUE power curves.



Warning #1: Parking brake is mandatory to pass state inspection in many states.
Warning #2: Tampering with oem airbags is illegal in many states.
Warning #3: Use of aftermarket seats and/or seatbelts can cause injury or death.






-------- The TL Diet: Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!! --------

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

Jesus your ride is looking like a tl with a lift kit lol

I will definitely be stealing some of your weight reduction items

ChucksCL-S

Fantastic, but you gotta lower that thing!



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Inaccurate

My car is not really that high. It just appears that way because of the small diameter tires. I recently checked my ride height after reading a thread here on the forum discussing TL-S suspension height. Mine was not to too far off. Measuring from the ground to the fender lip, my front is 26-1/2”, and rear is 27”.

I am keeping all of that valuable suspension travel. Why ? Two words: “Rally Car”. If there was one form of racing that would apply to fast driving during daily driving, it would be Rally Car racing. This valuable suspension travel was a by-product of the TL Diet. I have zero body roll thru fast cornering (drifting even). I’m keeping the travel. Ever seen how “not so fast” those guys with lowered cars go. LOL. Lower does look cool to a lot of folks, but I am not concerned about impressing friends and more interested in raising hell during my daily commute.

chill_dog

Nice job!!

I was wondering how 235's would look on those wheels (I'm still trying to decide on a tire/tire size for mine). Funny thing is, the weight was one of the first things I've checked on each tire I've looked at. Guess I'm not insane (or at least not the only insane person).

By the way, cute pup. Looks like he'll be a big one when he grows up.

ACCURATEin

Tein coilovers weigh less than the oem suspension!!


Also, i'm currently running the oem exhaust system, but i've cut the mufflers off. It sounds really good and the mufflers weigh a good amount, not sure of the exact weight. So if you're looking to terminate more weight, think about doing that!

I hate cars

I think you're on the right path keeping the suspension travel for a daily driver. I would put your diet car up against any coilover lowered car on real streets any day. Heck, I would put a stock TL against a slammed TL on real streets.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

How much has your gas mileage increased?

TL|GTX

Dammit, im going crazy, i want to see a vid so bad of u doing some runs, whats holding u back ARGGGGG

I hate cars

I've been meaning to ask, do you find that the ABS or VSA holds the car back with it's newfound limits?

Inaccurate

I hate cars,

Probably won't ever get a SC. I say "probably" because the SC is tempting. I refrain for various reasons - weight and I have always been a N/A type of person.

I do understand why you ask about the ABS and VSA. I too imagine that the TL Diet might be pushing some of the parameter boundaries (mapping) of the ECM/VSA/PCM programming. But, so far, the ABS and VSA have been performing outstandingly.

ABS works great. I never engaged ABS when the car was oem. As the TL Diet progressed, I felt more comfortable to toss the car around, including ABS engagement. With worn tires, I was engaging ABS very often. The ABS works great, having a very comfortable feeling to it (even at 80 mph). But never having used ABS with my oem car (full weight), I am not able to make a comparison.

VSA is outstanding. I never turn it off. It gets engaged often. With the Diet, it performs the same as when the car was full weight. Well, there is one difference. With full oem weight, VSA would only activate heavily (versus a slight flicker) while taking-off quickly on wet roads. With the Diet, it kicks-in heavily on dry roads with the slightest provocation - 1/8 throttle from dead stop, 1/4 throttle from 5 mph, full throttle from 20 mph.

Inaccurate

Mr. ThinJim,

Sorry for the late reply. Surprising, the mileage has not increased as much as one would expect from the 28% reduction in dynamic weight. With an average of 32 MPH (mile per hour) enduring Houston rush hour traffic, the mileage is 26 MPG. Before the Diet, it was 24 MPG under the same conditions.

During the summers when school is out for the summer, there is much less traffic jams during rush hour. Then, I usually get 30 MPG.

Sitting in traffic really kills the mileage. I can get over 35 MPG doing 70 MPH on the freeways although.

Majofo

InAcc.. You're Loco! You might want to take Accuratein's suggestion and reduce weight with an aftermarket suspension.

Much props on the project. Did you remove the cats?

I'm definitely subscribed. The project has come along well since my last visit. I can't wait to see a trap speed on the 1/4! or at least a street vid showing body roll.

I can't believe you lost weight for this project.. lol.. NBC should call you for a Spin-off: Biggest Loser: 3G Edition. I'm sure by the end of the year it'll be CF body, Your steering column, no dash, no radio / navi.. just a milk crate box for you to sit on and a "oh shit we're going to die handlebar" on the inside to grab onto.. lol..

spiike

Inaccurate you know your exhaust weighs a hell of a lot. How about getting a magnaflow mini muffler after the cat? Might be a lil loud, but hey.. that's extra weight you're dragging along right now...

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/02race.asp

Sort of like a stage 3 with out the mufflers.. haha...

Inaccurate

ESTIMATED WEIGHT (As previously posted)
------------------------------------
3580 - 565 = 3015 Static <--- Reaching a momentous milestone. Say "Goodbye" to this old 3,xxx lb range! .....soon




P.S. - Sorry for the late reply.

Majofo

Hey InAcc..

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past 20+ pages but what about swapping the stock rotors out.. I believe the OE brembos are much lighter almost 10 lbs each! (I think brembos are 9 lbs & stock rotors are 18 lbs). The caliper probably weighs a bit more but you'd still shed like 15-18 lbs. I'm sure there's also other setups which will give drastic weight reduction.


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