TL|GTX

What the fly wheel effect. And im really inspired about the tl diet. I just leased my 08 base tl. So i dont want to take anything off if i cant put it back on. Can u plz give me couple more suggested, much aprecaited.



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I hate cars

Rotating mass like rims and tires count as more. You're taking off the actual weight plus the power it takes to get them spinning.

Inaccurate

Because you are leased, we need to take off stuff that is VERY easy to put back on the car. Looking over my list, I would recommend these things -

Lightweight rims (17" rims weighing 14-15 lbs each). Don't get large rims (18"+), they kill performance.

Remove the spare tire and jack.

Buy just enough gasoline to last two days. I buy gas every other day, which is usually 4.0 gallons. This leaves me with "0 miles Remaining" on the MID when I buy gas again.

Remove floor mats (if you have no children).

Remove the Owner's manual from the glove box.

Replace oem battery with a Braille battery.

Remove all personal items (aka, ballast) from the car such as tools, flashlight, golf clubs, books, coins, etc.

Bearcat94

Hmmm. Now I understand something that happend a couple weekends ago.


Both chill_dog and I were installing the IM Gaskets. He has an '05, I've got an '07.

During our conversation (we did the installs independently) I mentioned that I was surprised how light the Intake Manifold was. He says, "Really? I was surprised how heavy it was."

Now I know why. His is Aluminum, mine is the Mg Alloy. (I'll take a wild ass guess and say mine weighed ~8 pounds.)

Inaccurate

Regarding the 2007 intake manifold...

I just took a quick look at the price for the parts.

Looks like it would cost around $500. The intake maifold is $132, but the top cover is $376.

Looks like the 2006 top cover will Not fit the 2007 manifold (by viewing the schematics). And, the 2007 top cover only (?) comes as an assembly which includes a few other parts which raises the price.

Eoanou

Oh that gets me all giggley inside, I'm hoping to look for 5lbs weight reduction. Maybe I can close the weight ratio to 60:40 instead of 64:46

Eoanou

What exactly is the "top cover"? But anyway I expected it to be $500 or so, as long as I don't need a new TB I can put up with it.

Eoanou

Don't think so, however the FSB for the Accord V6s fit the 3G TL and they should weigh a few lbs less as they have holes drilled through it specifically to serve that purpose.

Aman

how about new brake pads and rotors? I was amazed at how heavy they are.

Do you notice any significant handling differences with the smaller tires?

chill_dog

BC - Yep, what we talked about the other week makes a lot of sense in light of the new evidence. Very interesting. I would venture a guess that my IM weighed about 20lbs. You'd definitely (or at least I would) have to find a used one on the cheap...$500 is a bit pricey for just the IM and top cover, simply to save a few pounds.

csmeance

Though of some great weight reduction, have you thought of removing those two lower grilles that are black? Those should weigh a pound or two each, and help reduce the weight in the front end.

Eoanou

I would also go as far as to modify the front grill as well, remove the whole assembly and logo from the middle part of that grill.

Eoanou

The Stoptech 2 piece rotors weigh 6lbs less than the stock A/T rotors.

About the tires, a narrower tire will yield better traction in the snow as it has a smaller "footprint" but it will hinder dry weather performance, acceleration, braking, and handling.

Eoanou

Well I was completely wrong about this, the stock TL FSB is hollow and seems to be made of a light weight metal, most likely aluminum.



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Inaccurate

I am glad to see fellow TL'ers shedding a few pounds.

As such, I feel compelled to share the following information with you.

Do Not use the Butt Dynometer to measure the performance improvements from your TL Diet.

There is a weird, inexplicable phenomenon that happens with the TL Diet. I can not explain how or why this phenomenon occurs! But from my experiences with removing weight from my car (from small chunks to big chunks), the phenomenon is real.

Let's begin by describing a Butt Dynometer. This is the amount of g-force that you feel against your human body. You just added that G-Wiz powerbooster to your car, and you take a test ride. You are judging the performance increase by if the car accelerates "harder". In other words, you are looking (feeling) for an increase in g-force against your human body during acceleration.

With the TL Diet, the OPPOSITE will occur!!! You will feel LESS g-force. You will feel less g-force during acceleration, braking, and cornering.

WTF ??? Right, this is the same reaction that I had and still do have. So, let me repeat...."I can not explain how or why this phenomenon occurs !" But to me, the phenomenon is real. This phenomenon is what I had come to love about the TL Diet and I am currently addicted to this feeling.

After removing as much weight as I have from my TL, I feel (perceive) nearly no g-forces against my body during WOT, full ABS-engaged braking, and drifting thru turns. Don't get me wrong. The car and my body are encountering a lot of g-force...but I don't feel it in the slightest. When I brake hard (near ABS engagement), I see the seat belts in the empty passenger seat fly forward and stay suspended in the air as if a ghost is holding the straps away from the seat... but I don't feel the braking force in my body. I release the brakes, the straps fall back into the seat, and I feel nothing in my body. It is a surreal experience. I have no perception of the car experiencing the g-force either. The car does not nose-dive or misbehave in any way. I have no perception that the brakes are in ABS other than the pulsing pedal. You say "perhaps your car is too light to grab the road." LOL.... nope, that is not the answer to this phenomenon. I DO see the speedometer drop like you unplugged it and I see my surrounding come to halt in a surreal fashion. I do see any loose objects in the car began to magically fly in the air. I even had to pin open my sunroof shade so that it would not slam closed from the braking. But, I have no sensation of my body being thrown forward from the braking, nor do I feel that the car is experiencing that force either. I sometimes change lanes while ABS is engaged. No problem, no drama, no stress. It feels very comfortable with no g-force disturbing your concentration.

The same applies with cornering and acceleration too. I perceive nearly no g-force. I have purposely drifted thru corners just to test the car's limits. I have no perception of the g-force. The car does not lean (no body roll) and surprising the car has no yaw (front and rear slide equally and at the sametime). I only discover that I had been slightly drifting after the tires grab again and I feel a slight shake (re-gained traction). But, I feel nothing in my body indicating the g-force and I feel nothing thru the steering wheel (not like you are abusing the car to make it corner too fast). I suppose this is what people mean when describing any light car as "toss-able".

With the two examples above, I have attempted to illustrate how you will feel less g-force with the TL Diet. So please don't use the conventional Butt Dyno to evaluate your weight-reduction mods.

Here is another interesting point to show how bewildering, perplexing and baffling that this phenomenon is. On weekends, I drive the wife's 2003 Acura RL. That car is HEAVY compared to my car. When I drive the RL, I notice the heavy weight immediately, even as I pull-out from the driveway. While driving the RL, I apply brakes and I feel the massiveness refusing to slow down. I apply throttle, and I feel the massiveness preventing the acceleration. I take a turn, and I feel like a sea captain steering a boat. Strangely, I do feel a lot of g-force compared to my car !!! I feel a lot of g-force in the RL during normal braking, normal corning, and normal acceleration. Go figure...... How in the hell does someone explain that....

This is why I am addicted to the TL Diet. I have come to love this "lack of g-force" feeling. The car will eagerly do amazing feats, and I hear myself and the car say "What?....ain't no big thing".

In conclusion, please look for a reduction in inertia when judging your TL Diet mods. Do Not look for an increase in g-force. The car should become more toss-able in turns. You should begin to wait longer before applying your brakes. And to judge the acceleration, look for how far behind the other traffic is based upon the given amount of throttle that you applied. Do not use the sensation of g-force... it won't be there... and that is a good thing.

P.S. – I see other people experiencing this phenomenon very frequently when they get the UR Pulley. Most people comment that after they installed the UR Pulley that the car does Not feel faster (Butt Dyno) but they very much notice how quickly the engine pulls thru the gears. And, they rightfully conclude that the car must be faster because the RPM raise show much quicker. This is the phenomenon manifesting itself. IMO, the gains from the UR Pulley in not from any HP gains, but instead the gains from the UR Pulley are from the loss of rotating mass.

Cheers

corpsdawg

I didnt know you were a psychiatrist. J/K . I'll defend the butt dyno. Lets compare it to a "real" dyno. Its cheaper, alot more convenient and doesnt involve physics or silly calculus. My motto is, less math, better results.


For those of you that didnt catch on, i'm completely joking.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Here's a picture of the lexan windows I installed. Costed me $93 for the lexan, and 7 1/2 hours of my time to install it. It's something I plan on never doing again. Honestly if I could do it all over again, I'd pay someone to do it for me.

The roll cage comes in sometime next week. So once I'm done installing that, I'm going with the appropriate harness, and safty nets (NASA/SCCA certified) to replace the front two door windows.

Maybe something for you to think about. As long as you don't change the front windshield, it's street legal.

Inaccurate

Cocoa,

I love the low-luster paint job on your ride.

And the rims match very well too. It has an evil menacing persona.

I seen you here in 3rd G section more often than usual. Thinking of getting a 3rdG ?

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

^ No sir. Just bored out of my mind over in the 1st gen area.

Had that Satin Black paint job done about 2 weeks ago. Redid it 3 times because I was trying to mimic this other color, and failed. Finally got tired of it and just stuck to my original plan of satin black.

The rims are Work Emotions. Have an aggressive offset to widen the stance, hence the fender flares.

Inaccurate

Cocoa,

Thanks for sharing the pics. I really do like the look of your ride.

I hate cars

X2. I've never seen or even thought about a satin black paint job but it looks good. Is it easier to keep clean than normal black?

Does it have a wider track than stock? The wheels from the rear shot look like they stick out more. Much more aggressive looking. Somewhat similar to mine with the wider tires.

As for the lexan, have you run into problems with scratches?

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

^ Yes sir, I widen the track base for better cornering abilities.

So far just your typical scratches on the edges of the lexan from working on it. But the distributor I bought it from (Allied Plastics) has some solvent that states it can take the scratches off. I have yet to have bought the product though. I just bought 2 large pieces of lexan, cut it myself, and so on.

The paint job I've only had for 2 weeks, so as far as maintaining it compared to glossy paint, I don't know yet. My car also sits in the garage 99% of the time (hasn't been a daily driver for about 2 years now).

I still have a lot of work ahead of me though. I'm shooting to have something real nice for everyone to see by late August.



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Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Both sides together came out to 32 lbs.

I shattered one window by accident. And I failed to take the picture of the weight of one side, which was 16 lbs. I was too slow. Didn't care to take another one.

Inaccurate

Cocoa,

I was just "eye balling" this window regulators (window motor and mechanism) in the service manual before getting on the forum. Timely pic. Thanks for the pics.

Inaccurate

How does the TL Diet compare to the CompTech Supercharger in the usable RPM range without twisting the tach beyond 6500 ?

Below is the advertized gains as published by Comptech -


I averaged the HP figures in the range of 4300 to 6500 RPM. These figures were choosen because the auto trans shifts at 6500 RPM and the rpm drops to 4300 with each shift.



The S/C makes 14% more HP than CatBack.
The TL Diet makes 22% more HP than the CatBack.
The TL Diet makes 7% more HP than the S/C.
The S/C makes an average of 29 HP more than CatBack.
The TL Diet makes an average of 45 HP more than CatBack.

I wish to thanks Snookynibbles for supplying the CompTech graph.

TL|GTX

Bro your TL is freaking light and sweet. Please add a supercharger and make some youtube videos i would priase you.

Eoanou

Make note that the TL HP figures with the diet is not actually HP output from the motor, rather it indicates how much WHP an ordinary TL would have to see similar performance.

jchcmax

"The TL Diet makes 7% more HP than the S/C."


Prolly costs cheaper. This makes it all worth it. Mad props to you! This mod isn't for everybody, but for those who dare...it's a rewarding testament of power to weight ratio gain!

1meand

iTrader: (1)

I'm a little confused. How can making a car lighter increase the power the motor is putting to the wheels? I can understand making it lighter makes it faster, because of a increase in the power to weight ratio.
Help me understand whats happening here.
Thank you,
Dan

csmeance

It's not putting more power to the wheels, the figures that were created are meant to show how much power a TL would need at stock weight to move the car as fast as the one with reduced weight.

Inaccurate

It is not real HP. It is just a point-of-reference for the sake of comparison.

HP does not make a car quick. It is the HP to weight ratio (HP/Lbs) that makes a car quick. Nearly everyone concentrates on just one part of this equation (HP) while totally ignoring the other half of the equation (Lbs).


Mathematically, it looks like this below.

HP/Lbs = Quickness Factor

My TL Diet is
258 HP / 2922 Lbs = 0.0882 Factor

The Oem TL is
258 HP / 3580 Lbs = 0.0720 Factor

To get the same Quickness Factor, how much horsepower would the Oem TL need?
316 HP / 3580 Lbs = 0.0882 Factor

I hate cars

And as you've mentioned, that power is from idle to redline which is what makes it much better than the blower.

And as we've said before, the braking power can be multiplied by the same factor.

Not to mention wear and tear on every drivetrain and suspension part is reduced which is in contrast to the blower that puts more stress on the drivetrain.

If anyone wanted to see how an RSX with TL drivetrain would perform in a straight line, here you go...

And thanks to this thread, I'm just going to strip the GN to it's shell and only install what I want to reinstall. I think this is the best approach in my situation.

corpsdawg

Inaccurate? every get to take out the sunroof assembly? Also, you should probably check out this link for inspiration

Inaccurate

<--- The sunroof .....soon

rajin_2.3cl

wow that s2k is nuts...800lbs lighter FTW !

Inaccurate

UPDATE

I GOT ANOTHER 58 POUNDS OFF OF THE CAR !!!!!

:gheywave::gheywave:

















This carbon fiber sunroof plug is Not a vinyl sticker nor a single cosmetic layer of carbon over cheaper fiberglass. This is a true CF part made entirely of 5 layers of real carbon fiber and high grade epoxy. It weighs 2.3 lbs.

The entire oem sunroof weighs 33.5 lbs. Itemized, the sunroof glass weighs 12.5 lbs. and the sunroof frame assembly weighs 21.0 lbs (incl drain tubes and bolts).

Including a few extra small items, I was able to remove 36.7 lbs from the roof of the car. According to various sources, any weight removed from the roof will have added handling benefits because the weight is removed from the highest part of the vehicle (favorably affecting the vehicle COG).


Below are pics of the "xm antenna delete". This was done mainly for aesthetics not diet.









Below is a photoshop side-by-side comparison of the "xm antenna delete".







Below is a pic of the "radio delete". Surprisingly, I was able to retain the oem appearance because the lightweight faceplate unscrews from the radio head unit.






In place of the oem sound system, I have installed a light-weight "iPod Integration System". The complete "iPod Integration System" weighs just 7 ounces.



By the way, I highly recommend these Skullcandy Titan Earbuds ($49). Awesome bass (compared to typical earphones) while retaining crisp highs that aren't overly bright.

If you wish to debate the safety aspects of listening to an iPod thru headphones while driving, here is an excellent place for you - "No Driving While iPodding" (click here)




Below is a pic of the glovebox delete. I hated looking at that bulky glovebox. Gone and good riddance.






Below is a pic of the footrest delete. This is a heavy, thick-gauge metal plate.











Weight Reduction Since Last Update
-----------------------------------------------
21.0 Sunroof frame (incl drain tubes and bolts)
12.5 Sunroof glass
13.5 Radio delete (incl amp, door speakers, and dash speakers)
3.4 Glovebox
2.5 Innovative Mounts (engine mounts)
2.0 Grab handles
2.0 Roof console
1.5 Floormat driver-side
1.4 Footrest
1.2 Misc (airbag brackets & antenna booster)
0.5 Xm antenna
<2.5> Added carbon fiber sunroof plug (2.3 lbs) and adhesive
<0.5> Added "iPod Integration System"
--------------------------------------------
58.5 lbs NET TOTAL REMOVED






Thanks for allowing me to share my TL Diet with you !!!





"I'll be back"... to terminate more weight !!!









ITEMIZED LIST OF WEIGHT REDUCTION
-----------------------------------------------------
84.0 Racing Seats and racing restraint system (see Warning #3 below)
40.0 Reduced fuel (buy just 4.5 gallons at a time)
40.0 Rims
36.0 Rear seat delete
34.0 Spare tire (use lightweight 12V air pump)
31.0 Sunroof delete
27.5 Braille battery
23.0 Trunk panels
17.5 Parking brake and lever (see Warning #1 below)
17.0 Front bumper
16.0 Rear bumper
13.0 Radio delete
13.0 Personal weight loss (attributed to this project)
10.0 Front seat kick panels
9.0 Side curtain airbags (see Warning #2 below)
8.5 Mid muffler delete
8.5 Seatbelts for rear seat
8.0 CAI
7.5 Front damper
7.0 UR Crank pulley
6.5 Floor mats (now incls driver's too)
6.0 Engine bay panels
6.0 Rear seat arm rest
5.5 Subwoofer speaker
5.5 Ground effect panels
5.5 Rear deck
5.5 Center console armrest
4.0 Reduced wiper fluid (use 1 pint at a time)
3.7 Rear seat insulation
3.7 Rear speakers
3.5 Engine cradle damper
3.5 Small airbags in front seats (see Warning #2 below)
3.4 Glovebox delete
3.0 Megan pipe replacing oem 3rd cat
2.5 Glovebox plate
2.5 Innovative Mounts (engine mounts)
2.4 Owner manual
2.0 Roof console
2.0 Grab handles
1.8 Hood insulation
1.5 Trunk damper
1.5 Splash guards for front brake rotors
1.4 Kick panels under front dash
1.4 Footrest
1.2 Xm radio reciever
1.2 Misc (airbag brackets & antenna booster)
1.0 Exhaust heat shield
0.5 Coin holder & sunglass holders
0.5 Xm antenna
------------------------------------------------------------
539.2 Lbs TOTAL



DYNAMIC WEIGHT REDUCTION
----------------------------------------------
492 Static weight loss
105 Dynamic weight loss from UR Pulley
120 Dynamic weight loss from rims
---------------------------------------------
717 Lbs DYNAMIC TOTAL



ESTIMATED WEIGHT
------------------------------------
3580 - 539 = 3041 Static
3580 - 717 = 2863 Dynamic



EQUIVALENT HP INCREASE
------------------------------------
(3580 lbs / 2863 lbs) x 258 hp = 323 HP (equivalent output)
323 hp - 258 hp = 65 HP (equivalent increase)

Note: This is not just a peak hp increase. This is
a 25.0% increase across entire rpm range
for both the HP and TORQUE power curves.



Warning #1: Parking brake is mandatory to pass state inspection in many states.
Warning #2: Tampering with oem airbags is illegal in many states.
Warning #3: Use of aftermarket seats and/or seatbelts can cause injury or death.






-------- The TL Diet: Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!! --------

Inaccurate

------ A Photo Essay ------

Inaccurate

Here is an updated comparison between the TL Diet and the advertised HP gains of the S/C.





Wow... sorta looks like the TL Diet is equivalent to TWO superchargers !!!

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

Wow..thats awesome, I wish I had the balls

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Damn. You're positively insane and I commend you for it.


Any plans to ditch the stock cat back and J pipe? There's some solid weight loss plus more true WHP. I still can't help but wish you'd done this to a 6MT. That would mean another 100 lbs and ~15 WHP.


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