Good aftermarket clutch
03-21-2010, 05:38 PM
#1
Good aftermarket clutch
Ok, in preparation for installing the turbo kit I am looking for an aftermarket clutch that can handle the increased power better that stock but have the durability to last. I know some members were running the CM LW flywheel set up and having problems, but is anyone running just a upgraded disc and how is it working out?
I would like to avoid the LW flywheel just to save $$$ but if it increases the holding power or longevity I am willing to do it. Any help or advice would be great.
I would like to avoid the LW flywheel just to save $$$ but if it increases the holding power or longevity I am willing to do it. Any help or advice would be great.
Last edited by Hi speed; 03-21-2010 at 05:40 PM.
03-21-2010, 05:45 PM
#2
No such thing as a good aftermarket clutch.
There are literally 1 or 2 3G'ers on here that have good aftermarket setups, but it was a pain to get it to work. They had to use their stock PP, on an aftermarket unit.
To me, this isn't a "good" aftermarket setup. But, maybe they'll chime in and give you more info.
I say ride your stock unit until you need to replace it (although it might not be too long, if you're going turbo).
There are literally 1 or 2 3G'ers on here that have good aftermarket setups, but it was a pain to get it to work. They had to use their stock PP, on an aftermarket unit.
To me, this isn't a "good" aftermarket setup. But, maybe they'll chime in and give you more info.
I say ride your stock unit until you need to replace it (although it might not be too long, if you're going turbo).
03-21-2010, 09:44 PM
#5
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Have you tried a SPEC or ACT clutch?
I installed an ACT kit in my brothers RSX Type S and he loves it.. performance street ceramic disc.
For an FI application, I'd go with a 6 puck dic, but you may have some chatter, as with all 6 puck setups.
With Spec, I suggest at least a stage 2+ kit.. I had a Stage 3+ kit in my Mazdaspeed 6 and loved the feel. Grabbed so hard, and had NO increased tranny vibration/noise issues.
I hope to have a thread up in the sponsors/for sale section with a whole bunch if clutches, flywheels, kits, etc in the next week or two.
I installed an ACT kit in my brothers RSX Type S and he loves it.. performance street ceramic disc.
For an FI application, I'd go with a 6 puck dic, but you may have some chatter, as with all 6 puck setups.
With Spec, I suggest at least a stage 2+ kit.. I had a Stage 3+ kit in my Mazdaspeed 6 and loved the feel. Grabbed so hard, and had NO increased tranny vibration/noise issues.
I hope to have a thread up in the sponsors/for sale section with a whole bunch if clutches, flywheels, kits, etc in the next week or two.
03-21-2010, 10:21 PM
#6
Spec=trash. (It's basically a fancified OEM style clutch). No Spec clutch has EVER worked on a TL past ~ 2 months, IIRC.
Regarding ACT, I don't know if they have a TL specific application or not. This is what the site displays when you input: '06 TL:
http://www2.advancedclutch.com/produ...app_id=1432641
But, even if they had an application for us, I doubt it's worth anything. Numerous members on here, including myself, would've made the swap already.
Regarding ACT, I don't know if they have a TL specific application or not. This is what the site displays when you input: '06 TL:
http://www2.advancedclutch.com/produ...app_id=1432641
But, even if they had an application for us, I doubt it's worth anything. Numerous members on here, including myself, would've made the swap already.
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03-22-2010, 08:39 PM
#9
Xiomaro and TL2Slow both have CM clutches that I believe were purchased with the correct tooth count on the flywheel. Then I remember another post about 04 being different than 05-06 with regard to the flywheel even though the factory part number is the same for those years.
I'm not sure how they are holding up but Xiomaro must be doing ok with the turbo installed.
I also remember one or both had adjustment and/or master/slave cylinder problems which I guess was from increased spring tension on the PP. Could also be an installation problem because I think both had them installed by a shop instead of DIY.
I planned on going CM when the time comes.
I'm not sure how they are holding up but Xiomaro must be doing ok with the turbo installed.
I also remember one or both had adjustment and/or master/slave cylinder problems which I guess was from increased spring tension on the PP. Could also be an installation problem because I think both had them installed by a shop instead of DIY.
I planned on going CM when the time comes.
03-22-2010, 09:45 PM
#12
That p2R site is very hard to use. Rodney has a clutch on his site but I am not sure what the deal is.
Phee if you could post a link to the p2R clutch that would help alot. As far as cm and the lightweight FW it suck to have to pay $1200 for the whole kit when a clutch disc would work.
Phee if you could post a link to the p2R clutch that would help alot. As far as cm and the lightweight FW it suck to have to pay $1200 for the whole kit when a clutch disc would work.
03-22-2010, 10:03 PM
#13
That p2R site is very hard to use. Rodney has a clutch on his site but I am not sure what the deal is.
Phee if you could post a link to the p2R clutch that would help alot. As far as cm and the lightweight FW it suck to have to pay $1200 for the whole kit when a clutch disc would work.
Phee if you could post a link to the p2R clutch that would help alot. As far as cm and the lightweight FW it suck to have to pay $1200 for the whole kit when a clutch disc would work.
03-26-2010, 01:27 AM
#17
Here's a good link.....
http://powerrevracing.com/site/index...tid=1:hot-news
I might consider this one.
http://powerrevracing.com/site/index...tid=1:hot-news
I might consider this one.
first off, it doesnt say what type of material its made of, but judging by the pic it looks to be ceramic. if so, coupling this with a stock PP might not be a good idea. ive seen this combo grenade inside the tranny, ruining the FW, PP and disc. installing a hi-po clutch disc with a stock PP doesnt make any sence to me =/
the diaphram used for the stock PP, wasnt designed to take this kind of power and will shatter if your hard on it. thats why a stronger PP IS A MUST!! sadly, CM is the only co. to step up and make one available for us
03-26-2010, 08:50 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
^^^ that I'll disagree with , the pressure plate however wasn't made for high clamping force agreeded, but we have yet to grenade a disc setup and ever since I've started turbo project I haven't installed a cm kit , I've always used an upgraded disc with stock components , the typeS does have a cm kit in and to be honest I still would use the disc along with stock pp , I know this topic will educated most of us so I'm glad it's been brought up ......
Yes I did break the manual trans after one full year of abuse and almost 40 k miles,& I still believe if I'd leave the 20" wheels of I'd still have trans working ,the part that actually failed was third gear which that is the gear I pull the car in the most so it was expected , but then again I keep pushing the limit and exceeding the power level at which we know there's going to be consequences.
Yes I did break the manual trans after one full year of abuse and almost 40 k miles,& I still believe if I'd leave the 20" wheels of I'd still have trans working ,the part that actually failed was third gear which that is the gear I pull the car in the most so it was expected , but then again I keep pushing the limit and exceeding the power level at which we know there's going to be consequences.
03-26-2010, 12:48 PM
#19
^^^ that I'll disagree with , the pressure plate however wasn't made for high clamping force agreeded, but we have yet to grenade a disc setup and ever since I've started turbo project I haven't installed a cm kit , I've always used an upgraded disc with stock components , the typeS does have a cm kit in and to be honest I still would use the disc along with stock pp , I know this topic will educated most of us so I'm glad it's been brought up ......
Yes I did break the manual trans after one full year of abuse and almost 40 k miles,& I still believe if I'd leave the 20" wheels of I'd still have trans working ,the part that actually failed was third gear which that is the gear I pull the car in the most so it was expected , but then again I keep pushing the limit and exceeding the power level at which we know there's going to be consequences.
Yes I did break the manual trans after one full year of abuse and almost 40 k miles,& I still believe if I'd leave the 20" wheels of I'd still have trans working ,the part that actually failed was third gear which that is the gear I pull the car in the most so it was expected , but then again I keep pushing the limit and exceeding the power level at which we know there's going to be consequences.
rodney, ive seen it happen.
need i say more??
$1000 comptech FW bit the dust,
all those little gadgets which is part of the self adjusting feature, has no business being there with any high horsepower applications.
he had a 6 puc ceramic disc when this carnage happened.
couple questions for you,
1. how many times have you tracked your car?
2. how many times have you hard launched your car using either DR's or slicks??
3. have you made a vid of soft launching your car in first and WOTing all the way to 4th?
thats why i opened the other thread, so you can post up some vids. im really curious to see how your car handles and puts down all that power. my feelings is that you get nothing but tire smoke all the way through 3rd
i know i keep repeating myself, but traction will break parts, slipping tires wont!
03-26-2010, 02:09 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
^^^^^ the pic and brand explained it all SPEC clutch never known of them to work on any application properly I bought a clutch kit from them for Evo when i converted it from 6spd to 5spd clutch didn't last either , I already threw away my old pp and upgrade disc ................
I said it earlier unless you're about to drag the car or put some slicks on then the upgraded disc shouldn't give a problem and further more it maintains the comfortable clutch pedal ................
Now most of us I'm sure are not tracking or dragging these cars when you start to do that you know it's time to upgrade a lot of parts with our weight and power we are making forced induction ( supercharger or turbo charged ) tracking the car will need a lot of parts to be upgraded addressed or replaced ....
That is why most people build a seperate track car and prep it also, taking your 340++ dd fwd to the track without prep work or upgraded parts I think we should expect failure .
Please don't take this in anyway than it was intended it's just a discussion which will and probably lead to solving problems and making choices .....
We haven't focused on the racing side of things as yet due to the time and process testing takes it haven't allowed us to venture as yet but we are planning to drag and track both cars we get everyone parts delivered and we feel comfortable due to fact dragging and tracking the car requires attention and expectation of the worst and lastly it cost $$$$$$$$$$$......
I said it earlier unless you're about to drag the car or put some slicks on then the upgraded disc shouldn't give a problem and further more it maintains the comfortable clutch pedal ................
Now most of us I'm sure are not tracking or dragging these cars when you start to do that you know it's time to upgrade a lot of parts with our weight and power we are making forced induction ( supercharger or turbo charged ) tracking the car will need a lot of parts to be upgraded addressed or replaced ....
That is why most people build a seperate track car and prep it also, taking your 340++ dd fwd to the track without prep work or upgraded parts I think we should expect failure .
Please don't take this in anyway than it was intended it's just a discussion which will and probably lead to solving problems and making choices .....
We haven't focused on the racing side of things as yet due to the time and process testing takes it haven't allowed us to venture as yet but we are planning to drag and track both cars we get everyone parts delivered and we feel comfortable due to fact dragging and tracking the car requires attention and expectation of the worst and lastly it cost $$$$$$$$$$$......
03-26-2010, 02:17 PM
#22
The disc I was looking to go with is the one Rodney has on his website. I don't think the 6 puck would suit my driving style. I see no point is slaming gears, with all the power.
I don't drag race my car , so I might run DR's but only for autocross.
Can I get just the pressure plate and clutch disc and forget the flywheel? Also has CM worked all the bugs out of their kit. $1400 is alot of money to have to change out the ring gear.
I don't drag race my car , so I might run DR's but only for autocross.
Can I get just the pressure plate and clutch disc and forget the flywheel? Also has CM worked all the bugs out of their kit. $1400 is alot of money to have to change out the ring gear.
03-26-2010, 10:27 PM
#23
^^^^^ the pic and brand explained it all SPEC clutch never known of them to work on any application properly I bought a clutch kit from them for Evo when i converted it from 6spd to 5spd clutch didn't last either , I already threw away my old pp and upgrade disc ................
I said it earlier unless you're about to drag the car or put some slicks on then the upgraded disc shouldn't give a problem and further more it maintains the comfortable clutch pedal ................
Now most of us I'm sure are not tracking or dragging these cars when you start to do that you know it's time to upgrade a lot of parts with our weight and power we are making forced induction ( supercharger or turbo charged ) tracking the car will need a lot of parts to be upgraded addressed or replaced ....
That is why most people build a seperate track car and prep it also, taking your 340++ dd fwd to the track without prep work or upgraded parts I think we should expect failure .
Please don't take this in anyway than it was intended it's just a discussion which will and probably lead to solving problems and making choices .....
We haven't focused on the racing side of things as yet due to the time and process testing takes it haven't allowed us to venture as yet but we are planning to drag and track both cars we get everyone parts delivered and we feel comfortable due to fact dragging and tracking the car requires attention and expectation of the worst and lastly it cost $$$$$$$$$$$......
I said it earlier unless you're about to drag the car or put some slicks on then the upgraded disc shouldn't give a problem and further more it maintains the comfortable clutch pedal ................
Now most of us I'm sure are not tracking or dragging these cars when you start to do that you know it's time to upgrade a lot of parts with our weight and power we are making forced induction ( supercharger or turbo charged ) tracking the car will need a lot of parts to be upgraded addressed or replaced ....
That is why most people build a seperate track car and prep it also, taking your 340++ dd fwd to the track without prep work or upgraded parts I think we should expect failure .
Please don't take this in anyway than it was intended it's just a discussion which will and probably lead to solving problems and making choices .....
We haven't focused on the racing side of things as yet due to the time and process testing takes it haven't allowed us to venture as yet but we are planning to drag and track both cars we get everyone parts delivered and we feel comfortable due to fact dragging and tracking the car requires attention and expectation of the worst and lastly it cost $$$$$$$$$$$......
its not all about racing/dragging your car,. its about getting all that power to the ground regardless of the situation. i know that you dont personally race or drag your car, but i have a feeling these guys purchasing the TC kit might. throwing just a hi-po clutch disc in there without adressing the pp is just a bandaid fix IMO and will most likely fail, IF you find a way to get it to the ground.
you keep bringing up the 20' wheels, which to me, has no barring on being hard on the clutch or transmission. UNLESS they give you 100% traction. thats why i keep asking you how well your putting the power to the ground, but you keep avoiding question. =/ ive asked you that a few times in the past already, including my previous post. im just really curious that all. post a vid already! lol
03-26-2010, 11:44 PM
#24
Clutchmaster's is the only option right now for the Base TL M/T; the TL-S doesn't have any options yet. If you are going FI I'd recommend the Stage 3 or 4. We have pricing on the website if interested: http://store.excelerateperformance.com
On a side note, we are working on a clutch setup also. We are using a company to manufacture a setup for us that we use to make clutches for our high hp German customers. We should have our prototype in a month or so.
On a side note, we are working on a clutch setup also. We are using a company to manufacture a setup for us that we use to make clutches for our high hp German customers. We should have our prototype in a month or so.
05-03-2010, 12:35 AM
#25
I'm in the market for a new clutch. I've decided to go with Clutchmaster FX100 ($1164 shipped... Thought about getting the Stage 3 FX300 (Only $125 more), but didnt think it was necessary since I dont have any serious mods.
How much should I expect for labor?
How much should I expect for labor?
05-03-2010, 12:25 PM
#28
BUT!!!!! DO NOT OPT FOR THE SEGMENTED KEVLAR!!!!
for the stage 3,. clutchmasters has a new option for us which is a full face 8 puc made out of fiber tough OR ceramic. i opted for the fiber tough, which doesnt have the harsh engagment characteristics of the ceramic, but is more durable in the long run. you also have to be REALLY carefull of how you break in the ceramic material too, otherwise it wont last either.
the kevlar is ok for short term, but doesnt have good longevity. ive gone through enough of these disc's to know this.. i worked with them to get something else made, cause the kevlar just wasnt cutting it =/
heres a pic of my newest kit. stage 3, with 8 puc fiber tough sprung hub disc, stage 3 PP and LWFW.
just to compare, heres a pic of my kits in the past with the segmented kevlar disc. worked great, but was only able to get a good 20k out of it each time.
Josh, you may want to start recommending the fiber tough option, for the ones interested in the kit
05-03-2010, 03:04 PM
#29
^ +1
BUT!!!!! DO NOT OPT FOR THE SEGMENTED KEVLAR!!!!
for the stage 3,. clutchmasters has a new option for us which is a full face 8 puc made out of fiber tough OR ceramic. i opted for the fiber tough, which doesnt have the harsh engagment characteristics of the ceramic, but is more durable in the long run. you also have to be REALLY carefull of how you break in the ceramic material too, otherwise it wont last either.
the kevlar is ok for short term, but doesnt have good longevity. ive gone through enough of these disc's to know this.. i worked with them to get something else made, cause the kevlar just wasnt cutting it =/
heres a pic of my newest kit. stage 3, with 8 puc fiber tough sprung hub disc, stage 3 PP and LWFW.
just to compare, heres a pic of my kits in the past with the segmented kevlar disc. worked great, but was only able to get a good 20k out of it each time.
Josh, you may want to start recommending the fiber tough option, for the ones interested in the kit
BUT!!!!! DO NOT OPT FOR THE SEGMENTED KEVLAR!!!!
for the stage 3,. clutchmasters has a new option for us which is a full face 8 puc made out of fiber tough OR ceramic. i opted for the fiber tough, which doesnt have the harsh engagment characteristics of the ceramic, but is more durable in the long run. you also have to be REALLY carefull of how you break in the ceramic material too, otherwise it wont last either.
the kevlar is ok for short term, but doesnt have good longevity. ive gone through enough of these disc's to know this.. i worked with them to get something else made, cause the kevlar just wasnt cutting it =/
heres a pic of my newest kit. stage 3, with 8 puc fiber tough sprung hub disc, stage 3 PP and LWFW.
just to compare, heres a pic of my kits in the past with the segmented kevlar disc. worked great, but was only able to get a good 20k out of it each time.
Josh, you may want to start recommending the fiber tough option, for the ones interested in the kit
I'm also working with another company on a setup too.
05-03-2010, 06:55 PM
#30
OP might find some helpful info right here on CL side.
we have the same tranny
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/first-glance-6-speed-clutch-combinations-770172/
we have the same tranny
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/first-glance-6-speed-clutch-combinations-770172/
05-18-2010, 09:11 PM
#37
oh! u got me...
It grabs and works fine, but we're finding that with the LW flywheel keeps the motor spinning to quick and is somehow interfering with the smoothness of shifting, even after we just had a complete go through on the tranny.
It's like CM made an almost good setup. its just aggravating that no one can get it right
In my opinion just go to a more aggressive disc and save yourself a bunch of time and $
It grabs and works fine, but we're finding that with the LW flywheel keeps the motor spinning to quick and is somehow interfering with the smoothness of shifting, even after we just had a complete go through on the tranny.
It's like CM made an almost good setup. its just aggravating that no one can get it right
In my opinion just go to a more aggressive disc and save yourself a bunch of time and $
05-19-2010, 04:30 AM
#39
oh! u got me...
It grabs and works fine, but we're finding that with the LW flywheel keeps the motor spinning to quick and is somehow interfering with the smoothness of shifting, even after we just had a complete go through on the tranny.
It's like CM made an almost good setup. its just aggravating that no one can get it right In my opinion just go to a more aggressive disc and save yourself a bunch of time and $
It grabs and works fine, but we're finding that with the LW flywheel keeps the motor spinning to quick and is somehow interfering with the smoothness of shifting, even after we just had a complete go through on the tranny.
It's like CM made an almost good setup. its just aggravating that no one can get it right
In my opinion just go to a more aggressive disc and save yourself a bunch of time and $ya? dont know what your talking about when it comes to the LWFW interferring with smooth shifting, cause mine shifts like butter. maybe its the driver?
if you really think the stock dual mass FW and PP is a good combo with an aggressive AM disc, than more power to you. like i said, its a bandaid fix IMO and if you drive really aggressively like me, it will grenade on you sooner or later. ive seen this first hand
with pictures to prove it. the self-adjusting diaphram on the stock PP, just wasnt designed to withstand that kind of power and abuse. sure guys like rodney and the other recent turbo cars are running just a disc and holding up fine, but ive yet to see anyone of them hard launching with some sticky tires or getting any sort of traction for that matter, to really put it to the test. the CM kit is proven to hold up under these conditions, but the longevity of the kevlar material is a fail for us, which last an average of 15-20k hard driven miles.i would NEVER go back to using the stock FW and PP with this kind of power under any circumstances. which is why i havent gave up on CM yet. yes its frustrating, but i have faith with this new disc design, which is also available in ceramic which is even stronger, but is much harsher and you have to be EXTREMELY careful to break it in very nicely for it to last.
chatter is a shutter feel you get ONLY as the clutch is engaging from a stop. after it gets going, shifting through the gears is fine. thats one of the drawbacks of having an aggressive non-fullfaced clutch disc design.
Last edited by 04accordcpe; 05-19-2010 at 04:35 AM.
05-19-2010, 11:22 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
The cm kit needs more engineering in my opinioin but then again a lot might disagree or agree which is fine but what we rcommend with turbo setup is stock components with an upgraded disc , haven't failed us to date , the cm kit lasted probably 4-5 k on xiomaro car and it's an headache , the advantage to me using this kit is you do away with special tools needed to install oem clutch correctly ,which can be done without it but I wouldn't recommend ........
Lastly traction isn't an issue for us , what is an issue is getting options such as clutches , and gears and as nva av6 pointed out the casing too if we do manage to get gears , launching these cars with the tq numbers I'm putting down on slicks would be absord ,we all know the trans wasn't built to handle no where in the range where were at , now the power level at which kit is delivered isn't bad, but at almost 500 lb tq I wouldn't or plain and simple I won't , I think we all know what a broken trans looks like ...
Lastly traction isn't an issue for us , what is an issue is getting options such as clutches , and gears and as nva av6 pointed out the casing too if we do manage to get gears , launching these cars with the tq numbers I'm putting down on slicks would be absord ,we all know the trans wasn't built to handle no where in the range where were at , now the power level at which kit is delivered isn't bad, but at almost 500 lb tq I wouldn't or plain and simple I won't , I think we all know what a broken trans looks like ...