swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Man...the "lost some low end" made me lose my damn woodie !!!

how bad was the low end loss? I wish you had dyno's before and after....can you still get a dyno done? I think I can still compare it to either Sonnick's or Justin's to get an idea of how much low end was lost...

on a different subject, you will be able to gain some back with a pnp job on the heads and if you raise the CR

I am thinking of raising the CR by 2 points (0.5 being 1 point)....I am thinking of going to 12:1 since I want to be able to run 91/93 octane....guessing this will boost some torque

bouncer07

I like to always say that you're faster on the street than you would on the track. If you don't track regularly, you need the right set up for that track. I would almost guarantee that most track prepped is a well equipped shoes - slicks. Many people do well on G-Force tires and for you to pull a 2.3 is almost like you are just slamming the pedal down without using some clutch to get some grip down, or you may be launching too high.
But I'm more concern on your timing. I live where the track is 1,100 above sea level so if were to run in California where it's under 100 above sea level, I could well be just as fast as the pro's stock by pulling .2 off my time.

Sonnick

Intack: What track was it? And don't take offense to this, but 98mph, even in 2500ft DA is nothing spectacular. When corrected, that's 101. Maybe it's just a slow track, I don't know. I know Island Drag would be a far drive for you coming from near Albany, but check it out online. It's a great track. I was consistently going 103.5 - 103.9 in 1350ft DA before my 4" CAI.

Hard work pays off man. Congrats on the house and I hope everything goes well. Totally understandable that a dyno may not be a priority at this point. If you get it, that's great, if not, your house is much more important I swear lol.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

Intact - just to reinforce, nobody is trying to shit on your times - I think everyone here came in and saw the weather conditions from your track run, and the fact you were running 19's, and we all asserted that the car is in fact capable of being in the 13's.

also nobody attacking you for not having a dyno - just wishing we had one before cams because it adds more information to the pot once you get the after-dyno.

swoosh - nobody is shitting on the thread with speculation - just trying to keep expectations realistic.

I've got plenty of hard information coming. My car is apart right now, actually. I fronted Gerzand 3200 bucks for his j32a3 heads and intake runners 5 months ago - now that his new project has started coming to fruition, I finally got his heads in the mail. I have had them flow benched, I also have my stock type-s heads being flow benched today, I've got the rocker ratios measured, I have stock type-s cam measurements because I paid for a 2nd set of cams to be sent off to Hondata to measure (purely in the interest of bringing more information into the community, mind you), and once I see flow charts of Gerzand's j32 heads next to the j35, I'll be making a determination of whether I'll use his heads or port and do some minor decking on my j35 heads. Custom cam spec will be forthcoming regardless.

I have a shitload of information coming, I've already put thousands and thousands of dollars into this project, but it takes time. Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll be able to get cams back from Web (not working with Bisimoto, going straight to the grinder).

Trust me, there will be plenty of info about cams and heads. I fully expect more good information to come from your build as well.

In the meantime, I see no problem with all of us discussing cams and heads in this thread, with moderate speculation to keep interest alive as more of us complete our builds.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

please post everything in this thread? or PM me the link with the new thread LOL

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Me also.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

New York International Raceway Park. I punched in 14.43 @ 98 MPH at 12:54 PM, 6/22/13 on Dragtimes DA calculator and got this:


Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines
13.943 @ 101.498 MPH



DA was 2828, but don't forget he had his brother in the car, so I bet he can go low 13.80's @ 103 in ideal conditions with no passenger, on the same sixty foot. Not too shabby! With a tune, 104 mph is plausible.

IntactACK

iTrader: (1)

ESTA drag strip which is considered Sh*t compared to NYIIRP. Like I stated everyone was not having a good day on the track....I'm not worried about it either way. I was launching very well trust me I've dragged for years, guys that pull 1.5 60 times were around 2.0 on this day and track. I will get out again soon! I'm in the process of looking into some headwork myself

IntactACK

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like some great plans ahead looking forward to seeing your results and research!

GLAD WERE ALL FRIENDS AGAIN

bouncer07

Where's all the E85 guys?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

With people saying possible 103's that is sounding much better.
98mph in the 1/4 is a dog,and I'm hoping to see that in the 1/8 sooner or later.

Although I've never used a calculator to try to figure a faster time I've always gone by whats on the slip. Since what's on the slip is what it did run.

I could say on a mid day in october with a nice tail wind I could run 118+ but if it's not on paper it's just is not true.

Not trying to keep you down, just trying to separate fact.
fact is you ran 98mph and you say average which has me to believe you ran slower as well.

get your bother on the sideline and run it again.

Only vid I took with the cams I had installed was burning 1st to the end of 2nd when i left off.
The cams did have more power once rpms got up but the loss of low end was not worth keeping them in. At least with out upping compression or using them with some sort of Boost.

http://s899.photobucket.com/user/acu...126d8.mp4.html

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

LOL, I didn't know you went to ESTA. Earlier in the thread you said you were going to NYIRP. Esta is bad, but I heard they paved the first part of it?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

I keep checking to see if the discussion is back to cams...but no...

NvrDwn

Well then, I have the solution. Delta has received my stock cams to see if they can regrind them for (i hope) at least half the price that bisi charges.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Bisi is going to be pissed

NvrDwn

Oh well. Delta already charges like half for the same thing bisi offers on other honda engines. Actually more than half off. it was 93 a cam for the d series.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

hmmm....i need to hit up Julio and Delta...

spade0698

Just remember, you get what you pay for....

pohljm

your paying for a middleman

bouncer07

Imagine Drag Cartel cams in your J32/J35...

NvrDwn

Delta does awesome work. Read about them. Also it's a regrind it's hard to mess up.

bouncer07

Delta's regrind is a weld regrind to the camshaft. But it will be a good taste as to say once it's done that Cam A made more power than Cam B. Keep us posted.

NvrDwn

Actually no. A cam regrind is when they take metal away from the base of the cam. They never add metal. Google it for some good explanations.

I'm expecting a phone call today from them. Hopefully I won't mess their call while at my second job.

NvrDwn

Intactack,

Did you have to readjust the rockers after installing the cams? Was anything adjusted, or did you guys just throw them in there?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Going with the welded might be better because you can make the lobes higher.
I wonder which process with have longer life re grind vs welded grind.

What kind of specs are you having them make or are they making a design for you ?

IntactACK

iTrader: (1)

Yes that is the last thing you want to do....if your are unsure of the install I would recommend having someone who knows what they are doing present, you can't just slap them in. Double check everything, I believe we turned the motor over so each cylinder was tdc and bdc while adjusting and checking them when they were under load and not. Don't qoute me on this for some reason my brain is shot today.

NvrDwn

It would be a bisi stage 2 clone. You can't add lift to our engines by welding metal on top. We don't have the room for it.

Here is a previous post on another forum.

"Can regrinding is common in the racing world. And yes, it does involved having a smaller "base circle" profile. Most, if not all, engines have a maximum amount of clearance that limits the max lift available for a given engine. This is usually determined by the size of the cam bearing (typical for cam-in-block arrangements.) To get more lift and duration, the heel is ground closer to the centerline of the camshaft. This becomes the baseline for the closed valve and increases the difference between the closed and max lift points. The slack is take up by either longer pushrods, lifers, or the normal adjustment method for the followers. In high bucks racing, teams may use many experimental shafts that will be reground on the way to a final profile which can be supplied by the manufacturer as a new part once the final specs are determined. Some extreme camshafts are ground from billets with no reliefs between the lobes since the smaller base circle tends to weaken the shaft and allow flexing. I never heard of any cam being welded. I suppose it's possible, but being one of the most highly stessed parts in an engine, and relatively less expensive than most of the other hardware, I don't see why anyone would. Aside from the aformentioned billet steel shafts, most are cast iron, which is VERY difficult to weld properly not to mention pricey in itself.

Hope this was helpful.

Jay"

And for those that don't understand since the bottom of the cam is ground away the rocker is adjusted to reach lower. Which means that when the cam turns to the lobe side it now has more lift, again, because the rocker was adjusted.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Their has to be a little to add.
You could go just about as big as the journal size.
The regrinds I had could've had taller lobes no problem and they were just about the same specs of the level 2's.
I believe on the regrinds their was room for 1.5-2mm more.

NvrDwn

Nope. Here, straight from bisi.

http://s31.photobucket.com/user/Boos...ions2.gif.html

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

Please let us know what Delta has to say!

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

yes I agree but, what I'm saying is there was maybe 2mm less lobe height over 08 tls cams so you can make a higher lift and longer duration cam than whats offered by just regrinding. Obviously you would need different springs to reduce the chance of coil bind and float going more agressive.
I did regrinds and had a few different cams in hand and do my own engine work.
I would do cams based off the 08 tls made as big as possible before any grinding how ever they needed to be made.

Hope the regrinds work out for you guys.
If someone can show graphs where the cams don't lose power I would be wanting some too. Again

I just had no luck with slips to back the fail.

NvrDwn

If you allow 2mm more lift doesn't the rocker hit something? I read somewhere that we can't add lift and thats why we have to get regrinds. If anyone knows about what i'm saying whether it be false or true please speak up.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

people say you can't add lift because if the lobes are bigger than the cam journal it won't slide in the head.
The rocker won't hit anything.You might have do do a little grinding to the head for rotational clearance for the higher lobes but you can see where it's already machined from the factory for clearance.
The only problem I see would be having the correct geometry where the adjuster sits on the valve correctly.
And as long as theirs enough clearance between valve and piston the rest would be only cam timming and tuning

NvrDwn

Ok I see. So most of the power will come form the duration. The best way to get power without having to do things to your head is to add lift by grinding the bottom of the camshaft and then slightly flatten the top of the lobe for duration. This way it fit's fine, has more lift and duration. I was thinking of making a custom cam with this profile. Those who really understand this let me know what you think..

Stage 2 bisi 0.415" valve lift on the intake and 0.423"exh; 255 and 236 deg duration on intake and exhaust at 0.050", respectively.

Stage 1 bisi 0.394" valve lift on the intake and 0.395"exh; 246 and 234 deg duration on intake and exhaust at 0.050", Respectively.

My custom cam 0.415” valve lift on the intake and 0.423”exh; 250 and 235 deg duration on intake and exhaust at 0.050” Respectively.

It's my understanding that the duration is what makes a car high end or low end powered. Here I have given the same lift as stage 2 but shorten the duration to allow for a little less low end loss. Thoughts?

bouncer07

Be nice to have them come in here and do a little chit chat on their regrinds. I hear from other Subies that they weld regrind cams. But will go by what you said.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

It depends on the cams and what car it is going into. some subby have SOHC some have DOHC.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

being how mine reacted in the motor I would say a shorter duration might be better as well

NvrDwn

Agreed. I don't know if we have the RPM to be able to use that big of duration. Didn't someone say with stage 1's the powerband started dropping off at 6500rpm? The custom grind I showed should be arounf 7k rpm.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

NVRDWN !!! you the man !!! let me know how this cam does for it....

are you sending in a Type S core or a Base Core? I might get the same profile down the line as well....

NvrDwn

I heard by youngen you can't do it with the type s cams. so i sent in some j30a4 cams. They have them today and I will be calling them later this afternoon to see what info they may need if they need any.