mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

And the Eaton blower is just a portion of the $5K. Scalbert's long post which was reproduced here did a good job of breaking down the total costs of the kit. Significantly more R&D went into this kit than in previous J-Series kits. The ACM does much more than the ESM ever did. The ESM was simply a voltage clamp whereas the ACM can adjust pulse width, cam phasing (i think), VTEC engangement, and timing.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

You continue to completely ignore everything I say. Dismiss it all as a "half truth" and then continue to litter your irrelevant information across this thread. You're making claims you can't back up. Everything you've challenged me with I've responded to. Instead you've resorted to "kid" as your come back.

This is getting boring.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

acura101west
Car Salesmen
Sells parts other people make on the side
Has drag racing experience
Never owned a supercharged by Comptech Acura
Basing all information off experience with other cars/internet websites (Kenne Bell, etc)

mrsteve
Has owned 2 CL's one automatic and one 6-speed
Both supercharged by Comptech
Combined mileage on blowers ~ 60K
Over 60 combined runs at the track on both cars
Has witnessed first hand what other supercharged and turbo charged Acuras can handle (6 friends that own boosted RSXs, 4 friends with boosted CLs/TLs)
Been on this site since May of 2003 to see the development of forced induction on the 2nd Gen CL/TL.

Hrmmmm who would be the one more likely to tell a "half truth"

trancemission

excellent video steve....

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. The blower came off a few days ago. I miss it

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Just a little FYI. One of the two guys who designed the turbocharger setup on the Acura CL-S is an engineer at Garrett. You know, that really large and popular turbocharger manufacturer. His own personal car (CL-S 6MT) runs a Garrett GTR35 on stock internals and stock clutch.

Are you finished here or should I go on?


7psi dyno for that car on 91 octane fuel.

acura101west

you love to come at me with stuff that doesnt matter, you never answer my questions
thats why i call you half facts
first in point, your nitrous one,you said nitrous cant be used unless w.o.t
then i proved you wrong
then you came back with some crap about rev limiter,what does rev limiter have to do with when nitrous turns on????
what i have for you is call any turbo company or motor builder and ask why internals have to be replaced for forced induction
or my favorite, when you said no one makes pistons for a 3.2 motor,
you keep proving what you dont know,so stop it
you can get pistons and rods made for any motor out,,
stop it,you have not came back with anything worth crap

try to bring up something i said that you do have answer to ????
not half facts
my statement is this kit is not worth 5 grand
not for a car with problems
nor for a kit with a crappy eaton(heat monster)
4psi is not safe just as much as 12psi,what i mean is i have seen a turbo at 6psi make more power then a supercharger at 12psi,psi doesnt matter its the stress that it causes at any psi
do you understand
now dont say turbos make more then superchargers,sounds like something you will say,if you beieve that ask kenne bell,he makes more power with a supercharger the turbo kits out there

Smitty

plenty of people tracked their cars... mine was a weekend warrior... high 13 secondS is respectable in a 3500lb car... I have never had a clutch issue is my point.

THIS THREAD BETTER GET BACK ON TOPIC REAL FAST... TAKE IT TO PM.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

You're twisting words pal. The most common, low budget off the shelf nitrous kits... the type you initially said would be a better alternative to the Comptech supercharger and could be purchased for just a few hundred dollars WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SPRAY AT ANYTHING OTHER THAN WOT.

Second if you want to be safe and if you're smart an rpm window switch will be used so that the nitrous will stop spraying before redline. This will prevent you from spraying during the fuel cut at the ECU's rev limiter. If you didn't do this you would blow the motor instantly. It has nothing to do with when the nitrous is "turned on" however it has everything to do with when it is turned off to save the motor.

I never said that. I said it's all custom ordered parts. You can't just all up JE and say hey I need you to grab those 9.0:1 pistons off the shelf and ship them to me. It's been dealt with before and covered over and over again. Any sort of internal upgraded part for the J-Series is a custom order part. Period. That's what I said before. Don't twist my words. You implied that if an aftermarket company makes a piston for a 3.2L motor it would automatically fit in the J-series block whether it be the J30A1, J32A1, J32A2, etc, etc. That's just not the case.

That's entirely your opinion and not a fact.

I never said that nor did I ever imply that. But AGAIN YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE MUSTANG! This is an Acura forum and we are discussing the Acura TL. Why the apples to oranges argument over and over again? Is that really all you have?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It is on topic. We're discussing the TL S/C kit. Or at least I am. Someone else keeps bringing up Mustangs and Kenne Bell blowers.

acura101west

mrsteve your funny read your posts yes you did say those things ,no words twisted




i will state my facts again,forced induction kills stock motors,just cause you been on lucky side,thats good
i never said mustang i said call any motor builder and he will tell you whats safe

my fact is comptech with any psi level or any other forced induction will not last 100k on a stock motor,vortech makes samre claim but people know its not true

i love to defend my self we im correct

my last statement(cant be fact only opinion)
5 grand is a rip off for a crappy eaton(that is fact,there are lowest grade of supercharger due to how much heat it creates )that comes with comptech kit

and lastly tl is not a good car to start modding with more hp due to its fact of tranny problems,thats asking for trouble
so all im stating is facts here,and thats good some cars lasted long them they should have,but you guys know your on borrowed time
i have done that my self too,due to money or just not caring

p.s smitty all i asked is how long did it last? nothing mean
a correct responce is its still going or not ,if you took that the wrong way im sorry

your intitled to your opinion mrsteve ,but you know what i have put here is correct
and again nothing to due with a stupid ford
have a good day all and you too mrsteve

2_FastTLs

Indeed what I said. Eaton caters to the oem market by offering their M45-M112 units which can be easily adapted to the motors of Ford, GM, etc. The car companies engineer the motor knowing they will use a Eaton unit, so in essence they are designed to work together, and designed for max efficiency and durability while obtaining the performance gains of the air pump.

The Comptech kit simply throws a unit on top of a motor that was not engineered to accept such. It will most likely work, but will not be as durable, and will not last. as long as it should.

E-luzion

Foced induction kills stock motors that are not properly tuned right... Depending on the computer / chip is what prolongs motors. I know this topic is about Acuras... but I know multiple people that have turbo'ed / Supercharged NON BUILT motors and have no problem what so ever....why... b/c they are properly tuned.

I asked the question in another post if anything has to be done to the ECU to compensate for the induction... b/c i don't know. Should we run colder plugs? Items like that make a large difference in prolonging a non built- forced induction vehicle.... properly tuned....

If the TL's computer adjusts for all the loads... then no changes need to be made... I just want to make sure..

E-luzion

The Ford Lightning was engineered and built specifically for a S/C.... I used to have one... and guess what... some people would snap rods, and their trucks were UNMODIFIED....

Recently a stock lightning block, went turbo....and went 10.999... stock block...
Every engine is slightly different....Its all in the tuning....

zax123

This really has been an interesting thread to read and because I read through the whole thing, I feel like writing something about it.

I think what this whole issue comes down to is personal preference. The Comptech supercharger kit will obviously be as well built (if not better due to additional research) than any of the other kits they've come out with. There is no arguing that. Whether it's worth the money is up to the buyer. If I choose to spend $10000 on a home theater, noone can tell me it's WRONG or it's TOO MUCH MONEY. It's up to me to spend my money on what I want.

I think what this thread turned into was a debate. And I LOVE debating! In high school (LONG TIME AGO) I was a national champion. So if I were to give my on this thread and the quality of debating, I would have to hand it all to mrsteve. His arguments were consistently logical and clear, whereas acura101west's arguments were erratic, very repetitive and often off-topic. Perhaps acura101west had some good points but they weren't delivered in a way I can understand them and so I have to side with mrsteve.

In the end, I've got to say that I was considering a supercharger for my TL, but I've reconsidered after hearing all this. Both mrsteve and acura101west agree that the stock motor will not last as long in a supercharged configuration (regardless of the quality of the supercharger), and that scares me. I have a 160,000km extended warranty on my car but I doubt it will be respected if I drop in the Comptech SC.

But thanks for the debate guys, I definitely learned a lot about the topic!

theaccurateghost

So lets see here....

dan k
themainevent
theaccurateghost

So far there will be 3 supercharged 3rd gen TLs on the street. (acurazine members)

I'll let you guys know how fun and reliable the kit will be when the time comes. How does that sound?

chill_dog

I'll be waiting to hear about it (as I'm sure many others will)...that and waiting for a winning lottery ticket!

jdm_98r

Now here is a subject that I can sink my teeth into. I've been building turbo Honda's and Acura's now for 10+ years now, and grew up w/ my fathers 71 392 Hemi Cuda (I know the motor is mismatched, but by father had too many tickets during his youth to purchase an original 426, and now they're just too expensive).

Let me start off my saying ANY car can be FI'd (forced induced).

Second, you cannot compare turbochargers to superchargers. You really need to decide what application is best for your needs. You can't just go based on what HP someone made @ a certain PSI in two totally different cars.

I'll let you guys in on a little secret. If a car makes 250 whp (wheel horsepower) w/ zero boost, @ 1 bar of boost (14.7 lbs) that same car will make 500 whp. It doesn't matter if it is supercharged or turbocharged, both will result in the same outcome. Now, if you compare a built supercharged mustang making 700 hp @ 14.7 lbs, to a turbocharged honda making 400hp @ 14.7 lbs. You will now kinda understand how they made that kind of power. You really need to compare a fully built mustang to a fully built mustang, and vice versa. Also each motor will still yeild different results do to build and tollerances.

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You will usually find V8 1/4 mile racer using superchargers, rather than turbo for two main reasons:

1. Off the line HP. Superchargers don't have as much lag as turbo's do. Which means lower 1/4 mile times.

2. Superchargers are cheaper on V8. If a race supercharger kit runs $5-8000 on a V8, it would run about $10,000+ on the same car to have the same results. This is because everything has to doubled on the V8 (2 turbos, 2 manifolds, 2 downpipes, 2 wastegates, etc.)

Hope this helps

jdm_98r

Also, people considering boosting the stock motor should be cautious. The stock motor has a compression ratio of 11:1, which limits the room for error. I would be a little more optomistic if the kit included an aftercooler of some sort. Those of you that live in areas that sell 93 octane gas are less at chance of problems. For the rest of us that use 91 octane and have long commutes, we are actually more @ risk. Especially if you live in areas that have EXTREME summers (95+ degrees). This is just something to think about before buying a kit.

neffster

I don't know if this was pointed out... (I actually got tired of reading) but the whp DOESN'T change in the numbers crunched above. If it had 260 whp in the first scenario, it STILL HAS 260 whp in the second scenario. Remember, Acura is just playing games with bhp numbers. This game has NO EFFECT on whp.

neffster

Again, I haven't gotten all of the way through this thread, but wouldn't this statement about putting power to the ground further support the argument of adding a Centrifugal (CF) Super Charger (S/C) instead of a Roots type S/C?

Vortech (a CF S/C) has a linear power band and works kind of like a traction control system. It allows for you to take off in 1st and 2nd gear and not be hitting full boost until near redline. This would allow you to have more boost at higher rpms. Much better for those back roads where people like to keep the rpms a little high, no?

Just a thought...

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Meh... Not really. Watch the video link I posted. I mean if you're shifting at redline you're going to be in the upper RPM range the entire time and I'm breaking loose with the roots blower. Adding even more power is only going to make that worse. Watch the video. I start at like 10MPH and there's on wheelspin at all until the top of 1st gear, then I roast the tires when I slam 2nd gear, and then finally find traction before I need to shift into 3rd.

Also, there's no room at all on the left side of the motor for a blower so you'd still need to run a long jack shaft across the front of the motor. That gets more complex with a centrifical blower because of how you'd need to sit the blower.

The addition of 60whp will make this car a blast to drive without causing the tires to go up in smoke every time you stomp on it in the lower gears. My car made a lot more power than what the 3rd Gen TL will make. The 2nd Gen CL/TL is a better platform and has more potentional because it doesn't have the exhaust manifold design like the 3rd Gen TL.

2_FastTLs

So, for those who ordered you should have received it by now, that is of course it actually started shipping on Nov 1 as some have posted here.

So, who got the SC?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

They said "In November" not "November 1st"

invincible569

The RSX I posted about earlier with his new Comptech S/C sounds really good in this clip!! Love that whistle! By the way.. if you purchase a S/C, does it need to get tuned like what this guy did?

http://www.stevensrsx.com/Files/CTSC.avi

Here's what he posted about this clip:

CAR GETS TUNED

Place: Autologic, Houston, Texas
Tuner: Jason (St00pid)
Car: 2005 Comptech Supercharged RSX-S Tuned with Kpro


Showed up around 3pm, Jason decided to built my map from scratch rather than use any hondata base map... After half an hour of playing on the computer, Jason starts the car and starts to tune AF and ignition...

He builds his map, focusing on the low cam first, and then switches to the high cam... He then starts to build his composite map by testing 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 degree cam angles...

The itr cams DO LOOSE BOOST, we never broke 7 psi on the 3.3 psi pulley. However as some of you know, PSI isn't everything.... We finished with 283 whp @ 9000 rpms at 6.8 psi.... The itr cams do loose boost, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing when you have a good tuner


Thanks to Jason for great work. Thanks to Branden, Jeremy and Ryan for riding Jason's ass to make better power numbers...

283 whp is fun...

ricksvt

Me personally, I would rather see Kenne Bell or Whipple produce the supercharger for this car. Also, is there going to be an intercooled version, I dont like putting hot air into the car....Eaton = HEATON...

Rick

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Good luck getting Kenne Bell or Whipple to do anything for a car like this.

Additionally, there have been rumors of a possible aftercooler that drops into the blower outlet manifold. Won't drop IAT by an amazing amount but 50-60F wouldn't be an outrageous goal without dropping blower efficiency by more than .5-1 psi.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

No he's using K-pro. There's nothing like that available for the J-series motors.

trancemission

Hey guys, Ron A and I have decided that this thread has lived past its life limit. If you feel the need to keep this disucssion going feel free to start another supercharger thread but I must ask that you please stay on topic.