You're exactly right. The J32 VTEC switches cams sooner than the J35 because the J32's torque falls off sooner because of the lack of displacement. VTEC is a technology to give the engine a bigger sweet spot in power. The J32 has less of a torque curve than the J35 so power begins to fall off sooner hence having to switch to the "hotter" cam profile sooner. This is why we J32 powered TL owners feel more vtec surge than Type-S TL's do. Type-S has a fatter tq curve so there wouldnt be as much vtec surge. This all being said the K20/24 H22a4/H23 VTEC surge is even more pronounced than the J32 for the same reason that the difference of the J35/32. If i've lost you guys on all of this it's cool...lol.

 

The earlier 3G guys are probably in the same situation as the 04-06 TSX: even if a flash pro came out, you'd still need a newer ECU and have a dealer set it up to work with your car. These costs look like 450 + 110 + 695, so there's your real cost before you even pay a tuner, etc...

 

I'm living it out in real life. Temps dropping into non-South Florida range and the idle is getting worse. Until I save up enough to start doing the internals, I'm going to start reading and experimenting with the idle in these colder conditions.

 

Do you have this issue all the time, or just before the engine has reached operating temperature? There is a warm-up enrichment table you can make changes to.


If the problem is all the time, you can adjust the VE table for idle.

if you don't have a wideband, get one. Closed loop operation is key. You can make slight changes to the target AFR table to help as well. If you are not sure what changes to make, get VE analyse live and have it do the work for you!

 

Not sure how the MS3 setup works, but the J32 and J35 engines all have wideband O2 sensors from the factory.

 

Yup. understand all you mention. It's all the details I want to fully know. VE Analyze isn't a start and go process. Tried it already and it does more bad than good unless you know how to limit it's range. I was just making a statement.

The sensors are wideband but are interpreted by the factory ECU and there is no external controller that an MS3 can use. You need an aftermarket unit.

 

I feel stupid but what is this all about? a tune or ECU flash or something?

 

The JnR Tune is starting to look promising ... but running for over 1k ...

 

dude, lol - thread here: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/group-buy-jnr-ecu-dynos-gains-12-23-%3B-prices-posted-1-7-a-841554/, I can't stress enough that you should sift through it before you even consider JnR, especially considering the high price of entry.

 

really? explain worse? i had my coldest start to date the other day (38F) and the idle acts the same as it did in the summer. yea its still hunting but the weather hasnt changed it.

but like i told you a while back, as soon as i trip the output speed sensor cel, the car drives so much better lol (steady idle at 1200) and it becomes very easy to move from 1st gear with the twin disk

curious, what are your plugs gapped at?

 

Mine was hunting very little, maybe 100rpm at a traffic light during the summer at around 900rpm. It is still generally well behaved but I notice it hunting in extreme's of 500rpm or more on occasion with the colder air after warmup enrichment is met. While warming up, I notice it is idling higher than before so it's working. It is very inconsistent but I haven't bothered to work on it since I am going to be changing a bunch of stuff over the winter.

I am pretty sure it's the factory ECU tweaking the plate and depending on what I do to cause the instability (brake, tweak steering, AC, etc). I would like to see if I could just remove the factory ECU from the idle control and also waiting to see what bmeyer comes up with a IACV.

Overall the car is running fine but I am running very rich and my gas mileage is suffering. After I decide what I am going to do to the engine, I'll take it to a local tuner for the final tweak. I have a LONG winter to look forward to but it will give me time to think about it. We already have snow @ 3000ft so it's not far from the valley now.

It's been so long since I set my plugs, I honestly don't remember. I'm thinking .025? I'll see if I can find a post I made on that.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to clamp the IAT and ECT signal going to the factory ECU to stay 80 degrees. This should trick the ECU from trying to engage a cold start up correction. However you would have to get a external IAC for cold conditions.

 

I won't know this year because once the snow flies and the salt goes down, I won't be driving the TL. Right now, I come out of warmup enrichment so fast that I don't know if the factory ECU is interfering.

What I would like to do is to figure out how to disable the idle control circuit that is sensing alternator, ac and power steering actions. I think that is throwing the MS3 into fits when I need to idle after being out of warmup enrichment.

 

I just looked at the diagrams and the ECU controls everything. I was thinking about some way to fool the electrical load sensor however that might keep your alternator from kicking on as the ECU controls that we well. I believe the TL throttle pedal still use a cable that connects to the APP sensor. Any chance or converting to a cable throttle?

 

Gerzand is supposed to be working on a DBW delete.

The hunting is definitely the idle circuit. I was sitting at a light and rolled my window up, started hunting.

Started more logging tonight and decided to drop the req fuel a full point. Cruising is now in the low 14's.

 

Any video of this hunting?

 

can you log absolute throttle position from the ECU?

do you have a wideband dedicated for the MS3? AEM, Innovate LC-1, etc?

 

I do have a log from last night where I had the hunting. Haven't looked at it yet. All parameters are logged with the MS3 and if the factory idle circuit is moving the throttle plate, it should show in the logs.

Was reading that someone is seeing A/F swing a lot and I seem to have this happening as well so I need to read more and check into that.

And yes, I do have a W/B and the MS3 is using it. It's the AEM unit.

 

It's doesn't appear to be the idle control circuit. The only thing I can see is the afr load is moving with the rpm change. Going to have to keep digging. I only let it oscillate one cycle before blipping the throttle.

 

Looks like this guy was right, hondata was indeed making a flashpro! This is a big "in your face" statement to a lot of doubters lol

 

^ homeboy was right. lol

 

so can you swap ecu from the 08-05 tl ?

 

^ you should read the hondata flashpro thread