Last week I put a deposit down on an 04 TL 5AT/NAV with several accessories at Stevens Creek Acura in San Jose, CA. The salesman said MSRP (w/o accessories) is $35,190, no negotiation. I said I wanted my deposit back if no negotiation and showed him Consumer Reports Wholesale Price of $31,257. He made a copy of my documents, talked to his sales manager, and said: " Let's just order the car and talk about prices when the car arrives'. The TL will be delivered in 8 weeks.

I would like to know how much Bay Area owners of 04 TL w/ NAV paid for their cars. Do you think Stevens Creek will negotiate in 8 weeks? And what are your experiences with this dealer? Thanks for any advices and inputs.

TLSS

 

I think that's ridiculous. I have seen posts before where people were getting $1000 off MSRP from Stevens Creek. Good luck.

 

Who is your salesperson at Stevens Creek? I would deal with the Internet managers if I were you. They don't work off of commissions.

 

Who is your salesperson at Stevens Creek? I would deal with the Internet managers if I were you. They don't work off of commissions.

Lore,

The salesman was Jeff Vo. I'll deal with the Internet manager then. Thanks for the tip. BTW, my TL / 5AT / NAV on order is also an Anthracite / Ebony

 

TLSS: Check your PM.

 

Hi TLSS -
How do you feel about these guys? Do you get the feeling that they're up front with you and that they won't try to take advantage of you when the car finally comes in? Stevens Creek is a big volume dealership. This can be good and bad depending on the situation. Good because they get a large allocation, have a large customer base, and they've likely got more wiggle room for negotiations. Bad because they probably don't need you as a customer as much as a smaller dealership might.

I'd suggest letting your gut guide you. If you don't have a good feeling about these guys, I'd suggest talking to Hopkins Acura in Redwood City. I just closed a deal with them on a TL and I've had the best car buying experience ever. They're not a big dealership, and you might not get the absolute best deal from them, but they are competitive and most importantly, they are honest, up-front, no hassle, and live up to their promises.

Bottom line: I believe that timing is everything in this business. If the car you want is on the lot, or the dealer can get it for you easily and you're ready to buy, then you have some leverage and can probably strike a good deal. If not, then I think you're pretty much at the mercy of the market. If you order a car at MSRP and then try to negotiate when the car comes in, I think the dealership clearly has the upper hand - after all, you clearly want the car and you've been waiting for it for two months. If they want to take advantage of you, they will. If not, they'll work with you. Hopkins worked with me after I put in my order and I think it ended up being win-win deal for both of us. And I think that's the best deal of all.

 

I felt the same way as rokdok101 for a while and started shopping at other dealerships. However, I realized soon after that _none_ of the other dealerships would come anywhere close to the price I had negotiated with Stevens Creek's Internet managers -- and that's not even including the free accessories that I got out of it.

That said, I think it's not so much the dealership as a whole (although this definitely plays a large role) but the salesman that you're working with. Peter Chu (Internet sales) at Stevens Creek treated me well and didn't jerk my chain at all. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about all of their other salesman, but at least Peter treated me right.

 

Lore:

Funny, I talked with Stevens Creek's internet guys and couldn't get past MSRP. They said they'd work with me on a car in the lot, but not for an order. This was back in December and the car I wanted (WDP/parchment, NAVI 6MT) was nowhere to be found at the time (not one in all of Calif. in fact). No one was taking orders at below MSRP except for Sunnyvale, who quoted $300 under MSRP for a car they didn't have (they could have promised free for that...) and I was unclear if they would really take an order for less than MSRP when push came to shove. Was the car you purchased on the lot, or did they get it in a trade - or did you get a factory model that you ordered?

Mine ended up $700 below MSRP - not nearly as good a deal as yours, I know, but I think it was pretty decent given the market here. Plus I feel great about the way I was treated (I don't really have the stomach for hardnose negotiation), and I have (or will get on Wed.) a factory fresh car (no dealer trade - not that there's anything wrong with that...).

What was your secret? (By the way, I love Anthracite, too, but the wife nixed that color...)

 

hi,
i got my tl about a month ago. it was a non navi so i dont know how much more negotiable it is but i got a few extra stuff (etching, protection package, all weather stuff) and paid 1000 over invoice.

i hope this helps.

it all depends on how you haggle I think. you should try making some phone calls to LA area and marine acura. compare then purchase the cheaper one. make dealers truely earn your business.

 

hasema:

I think I'll wait til 4/1 (when my TL arrives) to go shopping at other dealers to create some leverage. I might have to look at dealers outside the Bay Area.

rokdok101:

I think my salesman expects MSRP. But I don't mind haggling. I would come into the dealership in the afternoon and start to negotiate from Consumer Reports Wholesale Price. I would go hardnose after about 2-3 hours into the negotiation. I think car salesmen would be more likely to budge after they had spent that much time late at the end of the day. And if they don't budge a little or the negotiation does not go my way, I don't have a problem getting up and leave. I never rush when buying a car. I have no feeling for car salemen.

 

I put down a deposit for Stevens Creek on 12/8/03, got the car on 1/4/04. There was actually one car that came in mid-December but I was out of town and could not get that one.

Anyway, my secret is hard negotations and willingness to walk (although I did not necessarily indicate that to them). I also realized that no other dealer would come close to $1200 off MSRP so I had to go with them. Which Internet guy did you talk to?

Mine was factory fresh.

 

I bought on 12/15 from SUnnyvale Acura and paid MSRP for car + protection package. They had the exact car which I wanted came in that day. Tries to negotiate hard but there were two other buyers waiting to test drive and buy it.

 

consumer reports is also non-navi. http://www.acura.com/bap/bap_step1a.asp?module=tl msrp for navi is 34,650 + 545 dest. charge = 35195 so in actuality, he's giving you 5 dollars off of msrp

 

I bought my car from Sunnyvale ACURA 12/14/03 Anthracite Ebony 5AT w/NAV protection package (body side molding, splash gards) only $200 under MSRP. Place my order on 11/2/03.

 

I bought a TL automatic, no navigation for $1900 off MSRP from Marin Acura. I think the most important factor was that I was shopping on December 30--year-end seems to be very important to car dealers.

I first test drove four cars -- Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan Maxima, and the TL. The Serramonte Acura dealer offered $1,000 off list; I walked so I could shop around. I then e-mailed a few dealers in the Bay Area, offering to purchase the car that day if they met my price. That really only caused a few sales people to call me to give me the hard sell. The "Internet sales manager" at Marin Acura said, "Oh, they only go for full MSRP," so I told him to get lost (figuratively, of course). Half an hour later, the sales manager called and asked what price I was looking for, and I repeated that I'd buy it that day if he met my price (I had offered $2400 off MSRP). He said he could do $1,900 off list. I then called Serramonte--because I felt it was fair to offer it the opportunity to beat it. The sales manager there said he couldn't even match it, so I called Marin back and said I'd be there to buy it that evening.

Another couple of things I learned: One, the models with navigation weren't as negotiable as the ones without. Two, one salesperson I talked to at Marin said that so many buyers are so well informed and so well-equipped these days--thanks to the Internet--that it's tough for sales people to wring big margins out of people these days. Which makes me think that car manufacturers are probably increasing invoice prices to compensate.

 

You should try to get a quote from Acura of Pleasanton....they got good service...check em out

 

Los Gatos Acura and Sunnyvale Acura will give $500 below MSRP no questions asked. I would go with Los Gatos though because they have exemplary service and are very pleasant to deal with. Sunnyvale on the other hand was the epitome of incompetence. I know Vffr1 bought from Los Gatos and was very happy.

 

Has anyone tried going back to Stevens Creek and seeing what their max off MSRP is? Being a volume dealer I find it hard to believe that they won't beat the discounts other dealer are giving.

 

Stevens Creek had the car I wanted, Anthracite / Quartz / Navi / 5AT on the lot this weekend. Apparently the person who had the deposit on in backed down. They were unwilling to go beyond $250 off, in fact the internet manager was saying MSRP! They were very unpleasant to deal with, and were acting as if the car still was not on the lot.

 

ryder1650: wow, that is seriously depressing to hear. Who did you work with? Ben, George, or Peter?

 

Here are the dealer invoice prices of every '04 Acura TL:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/acur....num5.0.acura*

The dealer has more than $3k of profit built into the sticker and he gets a holdback from Acura on top of that...:wow:

 

I called Stevens Creek and talked to Peter, one of their Internet managers. I expressed my frustration with their current pricing that their Internet dept is offering Acura-TL readers and he told me he's doing his best but the upper management isn't letting them discount as much anymore. I have some numbers right now but he told me to call back after their big meeting later this week so I can get firmer numbers.

I told him that if he could beat other Bay Area dealers by a significant amount he will be able to sell many cars to active users of this board.

PM me if you are interested in placing an order for a TL w/ navi at Stevens Creek and I'll see about getting you guys a good price. If I have some names of people who I can send Peter's way he'll be able to talk to the sales manager a little more.

(They just got a new sales manager who may want to run things differently, but I know this guy through my own transaction so I can work on him a little too.)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Holdback from Acura on a TL with Navi and Summer Tires is $1,046

 

Wow...so the dealer has more than $4K worth of profit built into that car.

$500 over invoice still puts more than $1,500 into the dealer's pocket.

 

I asked for Peter, but he was not in, so I spoke with Ben. They were not even willing to deal on a car they had on the lot!!! In fact, they had another deposit dropout and they were willing only to go down $250 below MSRP, which is ridiculously high. Futhermore, when I called the number the person who picked up the phone was very rude and condescending (this was at 7:00 PM and the normal receptionist was not there). I believe that unless they can wow me with an awesome deal, I will stay away from this dealer at all costs. Thanks for your help, though, Lore.

 

I don't like Ben at all. He gave me the wrong impression when I was there at the dealership working with Peter on my transaction. He's a young salesman with the wrong attitude, in my opinion.

Regardless, if you see what I wrote above, I can get a better price than what Ben's offering you through Peter. I'm still working on him and will have more info for you shortly. What would be a price point that you are willing to pay? I figure if we can group our buying power together the salesmanager will be more flexible to what Peter's throwing in his face.

 

Lore, check your PM

 

Yeah I sent one back to you too... keep me posted please. Thanks!

 

TLSS - While you're waiting, you might want to call around occasionally to other dealerships and check their inventory. Perhaps you'll get lucky and "your" car or one similar may land in the lot unsold. This happened to me. Another Bay Area dealership, but one a good distance away, got the Navi car I ordered in stock and offered me a reasonable discount over what I was going to pay my local dealer for the one I had on order. I was able to use this as leverage and got my local dealer, who has a reputation for not discounting their cars much, to agree to match the lower price.

With regard to invoice prices and the profit the dealerships are making - I'm not sure that invoice means much around here for the Navi model. It really looks like a seller's market and most everyone I've heard from, save a few, are paying MSRP or only a few hundred less for Navis. Maybe that's why Stevens Creek is getting stingy with their discounts - they know that they don't have to discount much to sell them even if they could afford to. Hopkins, which is a small dealership that doesn't usually discount much, if at all, can't keep up with demand for Navi models, and current orders are backed up until May, I believe.

I wish you the best with your negotiations - maybe Lore can work his magic for you!

 

A great point -- and yes, I'm going to do my best to help you guys out. I figure since I have a past working relationship with them they would be more willing to take my word of "I'll get you a buyer" vs someone who says "I'll buy from you" when they're actually shopping 5 different dealers around the area.

And I agree, they may have realized that they don't need to discount as much, but we'll see. Ideally if you can commit to a car color AND throw down a deposit at the dealer over the phone I can try to get you a decent deal and have the paperwork confirming the price/accessories sent to you...

 

TLSS -

How did you learn that "Holdback from Acura on a TL with Navi and Summer Tires is $1,046?" That's good info. I went to edmunds.com and couldn't find it.

Thanks.

 

charleybrown,

I got the holdback amount from Consumer Report New Car Price Report. The report cost 12 bucks. On the TL, you get 9 pages of info on how to deal/negotiate with the car devilship, ugh, dealership. Their web site: http://www.consumerreports.org/cr/new4/

 

Lore,

Below are the accessories I want on my Anthracite/ Ebony/ 5AT/ NAVI, for which I already put a deposit down:

- Rear wing spoiler
- Trunk tray
- Wheel locks
- Half nose mask
- Splash guards
- Backup sensor OR MDX backup camera

See what you can do. Appreciate what you are doing for fellow members.

rokdok101,

Thanks for the tip. I'll call around when I can find some time. I realize it's seller's market right now. It sucks...

 

TLSS:

So you've already put a deposit down at Stevens Creek with Jeff Vo, right? And you've not settled on a price yet, right? (If so, they're probably hoping that you will be so eager to get the car when it's here you'll pay MSRP)

Let me talk to Peter and see what the best price I can get for you out the door on the car and the accessories are. You're getting pretty much the same exact car I got (except for your choice of accessories).

I can already tell you that the trunk tray, wheel locks, and splash guards will be free. I can probably get you the all weather mats too, if you want.

That said, the wing spoiler I know will run about $600 with installation, not sure about the nose mask but that is something I would buy online since it'll be cheaper and does not require professional installation.

I don't have a firm price on what Peter can do on discounts yet but I'll find out soon enough after he has his meeting with management. I have a friend who wants to buy the TSX too so we might drop by the dealership on Saturday -- and at that time I can bring up the pricing of the TL.

 

dealers are getting 3% of msrp as holdback ... and since the tl's arent usually on the lot for more than a weekend, they're getting all of the 3%

so they're making .. about 3k off msrp and 3% off holdback

the navi manufacturer also ran out of navi's ... which is killing supply, thats why the dealers are not doing much ... combined with increased interest after all the auto shows and they dont really need to offer much.

getting mine tomorrow from los gatos acura ... woohoo

 

Okay, after a few hours of negotiating and work at Stevens Creek Acura I have some numbers to throw everyone's way, if you are interested in throwing down a deposit for a 2004 TL w/ Navi.

The market conditions in the Bay Area have changed drastically since the time I bought my car in early January. Discounts range from $0-$500 under MSRP with NO accessories (not even the protection package anymore), depending on who you talk to.

However, I was able to do a little better for you folks, but you have to PM me and tell me you're interested in putting down a deposit and I can give you the rest of the information including who to call and what to mention.

I hope this helps everyone who is interested! Just PM me.

I know that someone mentioned they got $1100 off MSRP from a Sacramento-region dealer -- I'd stick with that dealer if they come through. That is an amazing discount considering market conditions in this area, and I'm willing to bet that no other dealer will match that.

 

I just don't see why so many people are putting up with dealers' demands for full sticker. At certain times with certain unique, just-introduced models, sure -- for example, the Mazda Miata when it first came out, or even the Mini. I've owned a TL for three months, and I think it's a very good car, but it has plenty of strong competition, and if dealers hadn't budged, I would have been just fine with an Infiniti G35.

Doesn't it occur to anyone to just walk away and wait?

 

PeeCeeAl:

Of course that's the best option if you want to save money... and Peter even told me that if people wanted the price that I got ($1250 under MSRP + a slew of accessories) they should wait until May for more cars to come in.

But many people want these cars before then, and I'm trying my best to help that category of people out. Want to save? Wait until the 05s come out and the dealers want to get rid of any 04s they have on their lot.

 

Yeah, I know, and I'm guilty of crowing over getting $1900 off sticker. But I've burned myself a couple times in the past -- notably, with a 1990 Acura Integra -- by simply having to have the latest and greatest, and it irks me to no end knowing that to car dealers, taking advantage of people and their eagerness is a game.

 

Nice, $1900 off sticker for a navi unit! Which dealer and when did you buy yours? What color? Any toys come with yours?