tim-in-ca

In comparing NAVI vs Non-Navi I am at an impasse. As everyone knows, NAVIs are next to impossible to get (especially here in So. Calif) and when you can, you pay full sticker $35195. I can get a non-Navi thru CarsDirect or thru negotiation for $31699 ... that’s a difference of $3496. I plan to lease for three years so this price delta will translate to about $100 per month difference and re-sale value is not a factor.

I am drawn to the Navi due to the bling-bling factor. I don't really need the navigation features of the system, but I do like the GUI for the HVAC and Audio sub-system. Now, other than the obligatory comments like "Navi's Rock" and "Non-Navi's Suck" can I get some constructive input from you all? Are the HVAC, Audio and Voice recognition systems of the Navi VERY useful? Is it REALLY worth $100 / month? Is my cash better spent on the Non-Navi and have the extra $100 for gas (which is now $2.49/gal for premium ouch)

Your constructive input will help me in my decision.

moreace

tons of usefull comments
manny long discussions
try the search tool for old threads

roadman

We have in in one our MDX but decided not to in the TL, especially because of the high premium over a non-Naci TL. The one in the MDX offers more because it also has the rear backup camera which is very usefull. It is not only cool but is can be helpful if you use it. My wife is a real estate broker and many times must go from house to house then change directions and go someplace completely different, in this case the NAVI is very much needed for her work.

Having one car with it and one without, I never miss it in the TL, save the $3,500

Skeedatl

Navi amounted to $3000 more in my purchase. I skipped it since I have it in my 98 RL and hardly use it. It would have been nice to get the voice commands, but IMO it's not $3000 nice. The main voice command I wanted was for the phone and you get that even with non-Navi. I'm plenty happy with my portable iQue 3600 PDA and the $2400 in my pocket.

Vffr1

Can you afford the Navi?

If so get it, if not pass. Also you mention a "deal" on the non -navi car and show full price for the navi car. I think you can get the navi car for $1000 under MSRP, so now navi is $2,500.

Again, can you afford the navi? It's reall that simple!

Mike Smeezy,

PetesTL

If your're leasing the car and don't need to use the Navi.....well, don't get it....no need to make you're monthly payments any higher. If later on, you decide that you need a Navi, you can always buy one of those portable aftermarket ones.

UminChu

HVAC is not integrated into the navi, but the way they set it up is better anyway. You see all of your AC settings at all times without having to use alternate screens or get fingerprints on your navi to make adjustments.

clutchcargo

This has come up a few times and the pitch I have is for rational behavior.

I wanted a nav car, they were about $3K more in my market when I was looking (end of 03). They sold the nav car I was looking for and I grumped for an hour then took a non nav car.

With the coin I saved (an a bit more) I got a new 64 bit PC with a 20 inch lcd, a new lap top and a wireless router/print server. This added up to way more cool techno points than a nav unit I would use once a month (I still like the nav units though).

You will have fun with the car no matter which version you go for.

EluSiOn

that was my point.... with $3k.... you can buy a very nice tablet pc and buy some manual mount hardware to mount it in your tl and you can take your tablet pc anywhere you go....

http://www.tatung.com/tabletpc/about.htm

it only cost US$ 1600

rets

1. Wishful. I wanna have my first Navi-equiped vehicle instead of using portable Navi device.

2. Useful. Like to travel by car.

3. Large. Like this large LCD layout.

4. Extensible. May add rear-view camera or other computer/ipod related connetion together.

5. Affordable. Rather than buying another costly car without these features, I have saved $$$ by having 04TL instead.

:facelick:

TLGator

There are several other similar threads you should search and read through.

No one can decide for you if the Navi is worth $3500. I will say that is the steepest difference I have heard. But $3500 is not $100/month on any kind of reasonable lease deal. More like $70.

The Navi cost me abut $2400 - $2000 difference in the MSRP plus $400 difference in the magnitude of discount I could get. That translated to about $50/month in my lease payment. To me, that was just about the limit I would consider paying. In the end I went for it.

But no one can decide for you. We each have our own value systems. Good luck. Either way, you'll be happy with the TL.

neuronbob

I have a navi because a) I actually use it and b) the center of the dash is more cohesive with it. Those made it worth $2G to me.

OTOH, as noted above, the HVAC controls in the navi model are not integrated, but their placement around the navi screen is quite intuitive. The audio controls integrated into the navi are more useful, but not required. In all, in your situation the navi is not required. If you don't need it, why buy it?

Xpditor

If you want a trip to Florida (or Philly), we will hook you up with a Navi in your choice of color and you will save enough to pay for your plane tickets and a week or two in a beach side hotel (or whatever Philly has) and have money left over.

lindros2

I would argue it's not $3500 expensive.

On a lease, it turns out to be less (at least over 42 months) than the $2000 increase in price.

On a purchase, the car will be worth more at resale. It also makes it more desirable.

and I got it because I just really don't like the standard display.

Xpditor

Huh? They're integrated on my Navi. I use voice commands to change temp, etc and the display is in the extended display that comes with the Navi located above it on the instrument panel. There are 23 voice commands to operate all aspects of the HVAC.

Are you referring to the display on the Navi screen?

Kooz

I have to admit, I got a Navi unit, because I thought it was cool. But after having the car for less than two months I find it incredibly useful.

I live in a large metro area (NYC\NJ) so it might be more useful to me than others. I mean in the scope of one week I used it to:

-Pick up a buddy at his new apartment. Just got the address punched it in and got there. One of the best things is it knows the direction of the streets. Sucks to get somewhere only to find out you can't make a right turn and have to go a few blocks out of the way. No big deal right? Well in NYC, a few blocks could take hours.

- find the nearest parking garage. I was almost running late for a date. Couldn't find parking. At a red light I used the Nav system to find the nearest parking garage. Worked like a charm.

-Took a road trip to Montreal. Really nice having that system, since the road signs in Montreal are in French. While getting to the hotel a road was closed for construction. Made a left turn an it recaculated and got me where I was going.

Also it saves time. I mean if I didn't have it I probably would have spent some time on mapquest figuring out the best way, getting printouts of local maps etc. I used mapquest a lot. Now I will wind up using it rarely. Not to mention it saves time in not getting lost from poor directions from mapquest or friends with no sense of direction.

So for me it was definitely worth it. It added around $50 a month on the least. To me it will probably make up that difference each month with the time and aggravation it saves. I guess it depends on each persons preference and weather you will run into enough situations to make it useful.

Hope that helps.

Matt

caball88

what they mean is the climate control does not display in the lcd screen. the voice commands work and the extended display shows the temp and settings but not in the main lcd.

NOX 3.2

If you never had it, you probably can live without it (you won't notice it) - for me, this is my 3rd NAVI TL, and I can't buy another car without it...
I just got used to it too much, I used it every time I want to find a new place for lunch, and for emergencies - saved my cousing by letting me find a hospital very fast.

It's like cell phones, once you start using them, you kind of 'need' it, and find all kinds of excuses and benefits to keep you cell phone, but you 'really' don't need it if you can find a public phone, or if you can borrow somebody else's.

I just love to be alive to enjoy all this new technology, my father wasn't that lucky...
2k-3k is nothing compared to saving somebody's life. besides I make it up in computer consulting fees, the faster I get there, the more hours I can invoice.

kadams64

Firstly, my Navigation system didn't add $3500 to the price of my car, more like $2500 (in Canadian money, no less).

Secondly, I initially wanted GPS/Navigation for no real practical purpose. I'm a techno-geek, and I always wanted to have a navigation system in my car to play with. But I've been very surprised at how useful it is. Case in point: I went to visit a friend the other day. They live in one of these housing subdivisons that are all little dead ends: they described it as very confusing to get there. I punched in the address and the directions got me right to the door, no problem. Then we went for a drive and dinner- I followed confused directions from the friend, who wasn't sure where we were going. After we finished dinner my friend had no idea how to get back to their home. I punched a couple of buttons on the Nav, brought up the last address I had navigated to (their house), and asked it for directions. It led us back without a hitch. When the visit was all over, I said "Go home"...and got home, no fuss, no frayed nerves.

That all said, is the Navi worth it to *you*? I'd suggest that, if you are asking the question at all, it may very well not be. If you buy it because some geeky friend says its cool, and for no other reason, you may regret it. I followed my own heart, and am very happy.

PetesTL

In my opinion, the TL's great Navi is one of the biggest selling points of the car (along with the engine). If the Navi wasn't as good or not even offered, I doubt if I would have even considered a TL........it's that important to me.

EluSiOn

anything that navi can do... this webpad can do..



this one has a smaller LCD screen(8.4") compare to the Tatung Tablet PC (12.1") and it is absolutely mobile.... you want voice command.. Window CE can do it without a problem!

caball88

nice toy but too much of a hassle. even if that thing can have navigation installed try mounting the darn thing. unless you plan on holding it the entire time while driving. it might be able to take voice commands but it has to be trained. i saw a demo of microsoft's voice recognition software at a trade show and it ummmm sucks. try having that thing change your radio station or climate settings...don't think so. if you want the navigation get the factory one. i would not suggest jimmy rigging some alternative solution. it will be not as good and most the time cost just as much. how much is that web tablet anyways?

EluSiOn

are you sure that acura nav system is not running windows or Linux? they are computer programs after all! I am doubtful that honda will write their own OS just for the nav system

the pics shows that it can mount nicely in the car!

caball88

the acura navi has to be running some OS. not sure which one it is but why is that revelant to the web tablet? my point is that you cannot integrate the web tablet with the car's functions like radio and climate.

Mindcrime

I would pass on the Navi if you are just getting it because its cool. Save the money and put it into your retirement account, you will be grateful for that move down the road.

EluSiOn

That media pad only cost $800 and for that I lose the control of controlling the radio (which can be done from the stirring wheel controllers) and also climate control (which just few inches away, I am all for that mediapad.

I like my NHP 04 TL, it just that I am really a believer that the Acura Navi system is really overpriced. There are tons of alternatives you can achieve the same functionality and pay 1/3 of the price! I like my car but I don't worship Acura and believe everything from Acura is good.

fast-tl

Pete's YL wrote:
In my opinion, the TL's great Navi is one of the biggest selling points of the car (along with the engine). If the Navi wasn't as good or not even offered, I doubt if I would have even considered a TL........it's that important to me.
--SNIP--

I certainly agree. I have Navi in my '00, and I probably wouldn't have gotten this model if not for Navi. The TL is a great car with or without, but the Navigation makes it a completely different vehicle. People talk about Mapsco's, mapquest, etc, but those can't tell you on the fly where the nearest gas station is. They can't quickly get you to an ATM or hospital, and they certainly won't auto-recalculate a route for you if you decide to/have to make a detour. The TL with Navi is a much more capable vehicle all-around. I say get NAvi, get to know it, and like a cell-phone, it'll be hard to turn back. Versus the '04 TL, I was looking at the Pontiac GTO, but not even 350hp and RWD make up for the lack of Navi compared to my current car. If you can afford the Navi, get it and use it. IT's that simple.

AnthonyTek

FYI I bought my Navi last week for $33200 with 2 miles on the car. Still had the white paint protection transport layers on it. I had to drive 2 hours to another dealer to get the car since my local dealer didn't negotiate. Anthracite/Quartz auto.

I love the nav system. First one I have owned. My wife and I use it everytime we go out. The ability to find places by category works well for trying new things and resturants!

Especially if you ever leave town, finding the nearest Subway in a new place is easy with Nav. I also feel that it will add resale value later. It's hard to find 'em now, i imagine it will be a similar trend down the road.

EluSiOn

Those all are software!

with a simple search on google and I found this software..

http://www.deluo.com/Merchant2/merch...tegory_Code=GS

there are tons navigation software can do much better job than acura nav system or mapquest

with more research...

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...03-04BMWpr.asp

Microsoft Technology Hits the Road in BMW 7 Series

here is a lame video from M$
http://www.microsoft.com/automotive/...carnet132k.asx

-=¤willhaven¤=-

im a young guy with a bad sense of direction who has just moved to a place where the road layouts are insane and i dont know anything off the 4 or 5 main roads i have travelled. ive used mapquest and maps on us many times and i still have been confused sometimes because i have a very visual brain.

i am also really lazy and need to find a good mexican resturant here. as soon as i get my TL/NAV, it will make learning this new place easier, it will encourage me to get out more (god knows i havent moved much from this screen for the last 8 months), and it will be peace of mind on longer trips where i dont know where ATMs and gas stations are. i've been in trouble before on a low tank of gas and dont know if this particular exit will contain a gas station within the next 300 yards or the next 5 miles.

the NAV system is a must for me. any car that doesnt include NAV is out of the question at this point. and any car that i have to pay much more for nav is also out of the question.

its more expensive, yes. but i feel that it will be worth it and will save me lots of frustration in the long run.

also, my girlfriend is planning to move here with me. and she is a VERY timid driver when she doesnt know exactly where she is and exactly where she is going.

NAV is the ONLY way to go with the TL in my opinion. if you are in the market for a luxury-style car, a $2500 option that performs as many useful functions like the NAV seems like a no brainer to me.

but thats just my opinion, i could be wrong.

NOX 3.2

Are you sure ?
it seems you don't know enough about the new TL...NAV

can it do this?

- display all 12 or more XM satellites on the screen...
- Display solar position (not saying it's usefull for me)
- Control your A/C based on the solar positon...
- Control NAV and your A/C with voice commands
- Change wheel ratio from 17 to 18 inch for trip computer...
- show trip computer information (mpg, etc)
- display XM radio information on the screen
- Display graphics and control 8 speakers separately...
- 3 input options: buttons, touch and voice recognition
- display cell phone operation alert screen
- Anti-theft integrated (don't have to worry about leaving in the car)
- No cables or battery connections visible
- Can you leave your pad in direct sunlight everyday?
- display/change clock in DST changes and as you move across time zones.
- compass built-in.
- Altimeter built-in.

we are not talking about what could potentially be added, all this is already there.

I got tired, I'll take a break... :smokin:

Badkharma

Can the Navi system play DVD's? Or can it be "altered" to play DVD's??

TLover

Man, now you made me feel bad that I didn't get Nav.

caball88

when it all comes down to if you think the extra cash for the Nav is not worth it don't get it. but from past experience i know that trying to add something after the fact never works out to be "as good". that web pad looks like a cool toy to have but certainly not a replacement to my navigation. i am not saying that the factory navigation is the best thing since sliced bread. but if you are looking for a nav system, the acura nav is what it's designed for and integrates things nicely into the car.

EluSiOn

acura navigation system uses Windows CE!.... after digging more about acrua nav.... i found..

http://www.clubtsx.com/bbs/showthrea...oto=nextoldest
it lists the window CE API for the vehicles... which means... that MidasPad can do anything of the OEM nav system because it is the trip computer which supplies those info and display on the NAV

kadams64

The whole "replace the beautifully integrated, custom designed and coded navi with some kludgy thing that has no farking clue what kind of car its in" debate, I have to ask...

How do you get your Navi to display trip computer information?

And how to you get your Navi to display compass headings?

Thanks!

caball88

cool but i still don't get the point even if it is windows ce. you are not going to be able to install it in that web tablet. are you going to write the software for the web tablet? how on earth are you going to get the vehicle information into the web tablet in real time? i am a developer and would love to tamper with the nav system and write my own program to just mess. but to modify/create a navigation application to integrate with the car's factory sensors is insane. if you put a dollar value on my time that i have to spend doing this it's way more than 3500 bucks.

Cdn04TL

I decided to buy a TL with non-navi because i felt i did not need this feature and instead i wanted the A-Spec body kit and 18" wheels/tires.....the navi to me would just be a toy and a conversation piece.

rets

Good choice for your preference.

digital_b

elusion is utterly clueless when attempting to compare 3rd party gps to the integrated and feature packed acura nav system. one of the car mags [I believe autoweek] did a recent story on how INACCURATE mapquest maps and hand held garmin 'nav' systems actually are in real use. if you dont want to pay for the nav then dont. but dont make stupid inaccurate arguments against it.