1995hoo

Advance warning....this is a LONG POST!

My 2004 TL, NBP, 6MT with Navi, purchased in August 2004, hit 20,000 miles yesterday afternoon in the Scranton area while I was driving home to Virginia from Ottawa after a ski vacation at Mont-Tremblant. Seems like a good time to post my thoughts on things I particularly like, things Acura could improve, and general thoughts on the car; also, this was my first road trip, a 1,533-mile drive in total, since I replaced the stock EL42s with a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero M&S, so it's a chance to update my thoughts on those as well. (My original thread on the Pirellis is on the tyre board.)

All in all I love this car. It's comfortable to drive, great for cruising on long trips but fun when you want to open it up, good in the twisties, and fine for the daily commute in urban traffic.

Particular likes

The engine has sufficient power to accelerate well and pass most people I encounter on the highway without having to downshift, even in 6th gear, except occasionally in the mountains (which is understandable). Top-gear acceleration is good even with the car fully loaded. Acceleration when I hit "Resume" on the cruise control is good too—it doesn't take all day to get back up to speed.

I love the driver's seat. Buttprints are a minor annoyance but are not something about which I get bent out of shape because I don't see them—that is, I'm either driving the car or not near the car (except when I'm washing it). The reasons I love the driver's seat are several. My prior car was a 1997 Accord EX Coupe and it seemed like I was constantly fiddling around with the seat trying to get it to the right position. Every time I went in the back seat for something, I'd have to readjust the driver's seat. So the memory seat is a godsend. The memory was also nice while I was on vacation this past week. I was frequently wearing a pair of boots because of the snow on the ground and I found it harder to get into the car with the seat in my usual position, so I put the seat further back to get in; unfortunately, this meant I couldn't step on the clutch, but hitting the memory button solved the issue. I know to other folks who have had memory seats on other cars this is trivial, but for me it's one of those "how come more cars don't have this" type of things. (I do have one negative comment on the seat, posted below.)

The seat heaters are nice for the sort of weather we get in the DC area. I generally do not wear a coat when I drive because the combination of the seat heater and the climate control makes it warm enough. This is a positive because I generally find that the bulk of a coat is annoying when driving.

The cruise control is much improved over older Hondas and Acuras (this is my fourth Honda-built car, after a 1982 Accord, a 1986 Legend, and that 1997 Accord). I don't get to use it much in Virginia because there's just too much traffic. On my vacation, however, I used it a lot. On the way north to Montreal once I was north of the Woodbury toll barrier on the New York Thruway I set the cruise control at 80 mph. Knocked it down to 75 mph on the Northway. Yesterday on Ontario 416 I set it at 110 km/h because there weren't many other vehicles around and because radar detectors are illegal; I bumped it up to 130 km/h on Ontario 401 but had to turn it off due to traffic. I then set it at about 79 mph after crossing back into the USA and heading down I-81. The big improvement in my mind is that the cruise control doesn't "hunt" as much on hills. That is—in the '82 Accord in particular, the car would slow down on uphills and speed up on downhills to the point where using the cruise control became annoying. That has NOT been an issue in the 2004 TL, even going through the Adirondacks on I-87.

I also like the "Cancel" button on the cruise control because you don't have to hit your brakes or the clutch. My '86 Legend had it but the '97 Accord didn't; in that car, you had to hit both "Set" and "Resume" at the same time, and that's a nuisance. I didn't realize how much I missed that button until I started driving the TL. One reason I like that button is that you can be less conspicuous in shutting off the cruise if the radar detector picks up something.

I LOVE the navigation system, especially the voice controls. Some folks say they don't use the commands except to show off. I've found that it's a bit of a mix for me. In rush-hour traffic in the DC area, I've found that being able to use the voice commands can be very useful in terms of not having to look away from the road. They also make it easier to operate the climate-control functions located on the passenger's side of the car (the defrosters in particular). Friday on Quebec Route 148 we passed several rather stinky paper mills, so I kept turning off the climate control. For me it was easier to say "Fan Speed 3" once we were past the smell rather than hitting the buttons.

As for the navigation itself, it does come up with some odd routings from time to time (e.g., in Scranton it wanted me to take the I-380 exit, then re-exit from that ramp to re-enter I-81 south; I ignored it and let it recalculate). But on the whole, the benefits when driving in an unfamiliar area, or driving somewhere where you know the exits come up suddenly (east shore of the St. Lawrence near Montreal, for example), outweigh this inconvenience.

Gas mileage with the 6MT is pretty darn good on the highway. Yesterday on the drive down from Ottawa I got 27 mpg at an average speed of 70 mph for the first 390 miles (Ottawa to Frackville, PA, which is where I was getting low). For the remaining 201 miles home I got 30 mph at an average speed of 69 mph. Mileage numbers on the northbound leg were similar. The cruising range on the highway seems to be roughly consistent with my 1997 Accord—around 400 miles. I could probably go further since I usually find I put in 14 gallons when I fill up, but if I'm somewhere where I don't know the road that well and don't know what gas options are ahead—such as last night on I-81 when I stopped in Frackville—I think prudence dictates stopping for gas rather than taking a chance.

I love the second power plug in the armrest for my cell phone charger. The Bluetooth can sap the power, so a travel charger is key. This power plug eliminates the need for a two-plug adapter from Radio Shack.

Things Acura could improve

As you've gathered, I travel to Canada periodically on ski trips. A gripe I have with all Honda-built cars is that the metric portion of the speedometer is hard to read. I know what all the speed equivalents are, but I think it's annoying that the km/h scale is illegible. It should also be in 10 km/h increments. My other car is a 1988 RX-7 and its speedometer is much better in this regard. If I have the chance, I'll take a picture and post it for comparison. The TL's gauges are much nicer overall, but Honda has always been deficient in this area.

I also don't think it makes sense that the MID cannot be switched to metric at the push of a button. There is no real reason why this feature could not be added, given that the MID is all electronic; it's just a case of programming in the proper conversion equations. I've driven Cadillacs and Jaguars in which a push of a button switches both the odometer and the trip meter to kilometres. This would be nice when you're driving on a road where all the signs are metric. Moreover, the navigation system CAN be switched to kilometres, and I do this when I cross the border into Canada so that the directions will roughly match the highway signs. It's kind of dumb that the MID cannot be switched to match the Navi so that when the voice says "in one kilometre, exit right onto.....," you could look at your odometer for confirmation of the distance.

The seat heaters are perhaps not strong enough for very cold weather. This might just be a function of the fact that if it's really cold, you often wear heavier clothes. I had the seat heaters turned on at Mont-Tremblant, but generally did not feel them. I'm sure that part of this was that on several days I had on a Spyder ski suit and long underwear, so the heat didn't penetrate. On Friday morning, however, the MID readout showed what is displayed below; I was wearing a pair of LL Bean polarfleece-lined jeans and I didn't feel the butt-warmer. (BTW, is this a new forum record for lowest temperature shown on the MID?)



The negative comment on the seat that I mentioned earlier is that I'd like two improvements (aside from the seat heater issue). First, on long trips I'd like to be able to raise the front of the seat just a bit higher than is allowed. It would provide a bit more leg support. Second, I'd prefer a dual-zone lumbar support that would allow for independent adjustment at the top and bottom of your back.

Accessing the main power outlet (in the drawer below the radio) is a nuisance because the outlet's cover always wants to close automatically. You have to hold the thing open while you plug in your radar detector. To me this is a bit of a big issue because it's illegal to use a detector in Virginia; thus, I keep the thing stashed under the seat and put it up once I cross into Maryland or North Carolina. It's hard to do while driving in this car because of the power outlet cover. The cover should be like the one in the center armrest—when you open it, it stays open.

In general I love the HFL, especially since it is illegal to use a hand-held phone in DC (and stupid, too, since I drive the 6MT), but I think Acura could do a better job of integrating it with the Navi. I suppose it's possible to enter all your phonebook entries as personal addresses in the Navi and then use "Send" to dial them, but this seems like an unnecessary extra step. I think it would be nice if you could just create a phonebook, with voice-recorded names, on the Navi screen, and then just tell the Navi "Call Domino's" (or whatever). This would have two benefits: (1) Entry of information into the phonebook would be easier because (with the exception of the voice-name) you could type it in using the touchscreen or the joystick; (2) I find that the Navi's voice recognition is better than the HFL's (hence another reason for benefit #1). The Navi seldom misunderstands me, even at highway speed with the fan going. The HFL often misunderstands me, even when I'm stopped with the fan off. Integrating the HFL and the Navi might eliminate this. (Of course, I understand why Acura wants to keep the two features separate, because the HFL is available on all TLs, even those without Navis.)

Comments on the Pirellis

As noted above, my initial comments on the Pirellis are in another thread that I've linked at the beginning of this post. This post gives me a chance to comment on them after driving over 1,500 miles in the past ten days.

Dry traction and ride are excellent. Road noise was generally no worse than other tyres I've had over the years (noisy on concrete, as is to be expected).

I've only driven in the rain once since I've had the Pirellis, and those comments are in the other thread.

Driving in the snow was a mixed bag. On January 21 we got 25 cm of snow at Mont-Tremblant, and the condo at which I was staying has an unpaved car park. I got the car stuck three times that day in that car park in unshoveled parking spaces. The picture below was taken two days later, after the management had cleared the snow. On this sort of surface, the car did fine. (More on snow after the picture)



In deeper snow, the Pirellis are still eager to spin. Rocking the car helped a few times, but one time we simply had to push the car out. Bottom line—the P Zero Nero M&S is still an all-season tyre and is not a substitute for snow tyres if you live in a snowy climate. The fellow who works at the condo who helped us push out the car considered the Pirellis to be summer tyres.

With that said, on PACKED snow, of the sort shown in the picture above, the Pirellis were fine. The Pirellis were also fine on fresh powder that fell on the roads (say, the 5 cm snowfall we had on Wednesday)—they just didn't deal well with bigger moundings of fresh snow. On one of the days when we weren't skiing I drove around to the far side of the mountain and was in the empty car park shown below. I decided to attempt to turn a donut in order to see if the car would slide. It did NOT slide. (I wasn't able to push it to see when it WOULD start to slide because Ms1995hoo was not amused at the one donut I did turn.) BTW, that is not snow reflected in the paint; it's all gunk all over the side of the car. I'm going to wash it today, even though there's rain in the forecast, because in this picture the car is clean compared to how it looks now.



In the end, I am glad I got the Pirellis. As I said in the other thread linked above, what made me decide to do it was the EL42s' lousy performance in heavy rain. I do not regret keeping the EL42s for 18,000 miles because I don't like the idea of spending money on new tyres when I have a perfectly serviceable set, even if they aren't great. As other people have said, however, the TL is a very different car—for the better—on the P Zero Neros. If I lived in a desert climate, like most of Arizona, where it doesn't rain that much, I might say that the EL42s were fine. My only real gripe with them was their performance in the rain (I never did drive them in a major snowstorm). However, the Pirellis are significantly better ALL-AROUND. I recommend them to anyone who does not live in an area where snow tyres are needed in the winter. As I said above, the P Zero Nero, including the M&S variant, is NOT an adequate substitute for proper snow tyres for folks up North. But if you live in an area like I do where you get a few minor snowfalls, the occasional massive snow dump every few years, and mostly rain, and you only periodically travel to areas with lots of snow, the P Zero Nero should do the job, as long as you're rational about what to expect and as long as you're properly prepared to push the car out or otherwise deal with being stuck if you get a big snow dump.

neuronbob

Awesome review. I totally agree with your comment on how difficult the km/h markers on the speedometer are to see. Luckily, I can translate speed pretty quickly when I'm in Canada, but shouldn't have to.

Your comments on the Pirellis are helpful, too.

We need more long-termers to post their experience!

trancemission

wow what a great review, yeah thats got to be the lowest Ive ever seen the MID...

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

great indepth review, totally agree with the MID and navi

what is the navi like in canada??? ive seen that the navi only extens just a bit into canada

GUMP

Great review...wouldn't turning off the VSA help in getting out of the snow you were stuck in? I always turn it off to help spin the wheels to free the car. Did you do that?

TCMS

Great post!


My only big time complaint, short of some rattles, is that the car needs more power.

jimmyjet

You CAN do this. I have an 05 and I've programmed my favorite pizza restaurant (Domino's??? ), a few business partners and my immediate family. I hear ya on the HFL system misunderstanding you. I'll ask for my aunt and it'll respond with my dad. I had to come up with come alternative commands like, "Call my dad." I've had to repeat myself more than once.

Unless this was a new feature for the 05 TL, you should be able to press the button and say "phonebook". Then say "store", give it a name, a number and lock it in with the command "enter." Storing all the names and numbers in the Navi system is helpful if you drive to those places a lot, but that's a lot of joystick work just to press the "send" button.

I met an engineer from IBM that helped Honda develop the HFL. He said they (Honda) got cheap on the microphones. If Honda used a digital mike, the system would work a lot better. Regardless, I'm happy with it. It's better than the voice system my dad had on his Lincoln a few years ago. My wish is that the navi screen would turn into a keypad so I can dial my phone with my finger - this is especially helpful when calling my bank or credit card company.

The Navi system does a better job with voice recognition because it has less to decipher than the HFL. There are set commands and it knows what to listen for. HFL is not as good because it's easy for the system to misunderstand single words like "eight" and "three" The soft "th" isn't picked up by the microphone at speed. Living in Chicago makes things hard. "Dial 312" comes back with "812" more than enough. If you think 3 an 8 sound different enough, don't forget that IBM and Honda had to account for local dialects when they developed the HFL. Those of you in the Great White North will know what I'm talking aboot.

As for your selection of tires, I first thought the Pirelli's were not a good choice. I lived in Louisiana and Georgia for a few years, so I always knew of the P-Zeros as a summer wet-dry tire. I checked out your choice on Tirerack.com and I'll probably get a set for myself when the time comes!

Thanks for the great review!

1995hoo

That didn't even occur to me. I'll have to try that next time. I was so busy making sure that I didn't slide into any of the other parked cars that I forgot about the VSA.

(I suppose I was concentrating on the right thing in that respect!)

Tecciztecatl

Yeah, works on mine ...

I am just respoding because of Mont-Tremblant ... great place to ski, although when I was up there ...hmm maybe 18 years ago, it was cold as a mother, but the skiing was great!

I also have the PZero Neros M+S, but put the Dunlop M3s on in the winter.

I hope the skiing was good!

1995hoo

It was great for Montreal and Ottawa, and for guiding me home from downtown Ottawa (fine coverage down the 416 and 401 to the Thousand Islands Bridge). It was worthless for most of the area in between. The coverage ends a short distance up Autoroute 15 northwest of Montreal, and it resumed somewhere east of the ferry across the Ottawa River to the east of Ottawa. I've got a ton of breadcrumbs for the rest.

The new Navi DVD (last year's) adds Quebec City, but I don't know how much else it adds, including whether any of the other major highways are on there as unverified roads (example: Autoroute 15 and Quebec 117 from Montreal northwest past Mont-Laurier on to Val d'Or; also ANYTHING in the Maritimes, which are completely missing). If someone has a 2005 or 2006 TL and would be willing to zoom in to give us an idea of coverage, it might be helpful.

1995hoo

I've done this; my point is just that the HFL misunderstands me so it requires programming and reprogramming until it's correct. I suppose it would require a bit of a rejiggering of the Navi to make my idea work—perhaps a separate "Phonebook" button below the screen and a separate set of commands relating to it.

Your comment on the nuisance of putting stuff into the Navi is why I haven't done it (with a very few exceptions)!

1995hoo

See the picture in my original post regarding the temperature. Most of the week it was warmer than that. Last Sunday the MID said it was zero degrees Fahrenheit when I went out to go skiing, but it didn't feel particularly cold to me. Of course, I was also wearing gloves, a face mask, goggles, and a hat.

1995hoo

My original post said the following:

Upon re-reading it, I realize that I never finished the discussion because I got focused on what I liked IN THE PAST WEEK. I noted, in the "things to work on" section, that I would like to be able to raise the seat higher and that I'd like a dual-zone lumbar support. With those things noted, I need to add that I do like the amount of butt space in the TL's seats. Put differently—my father used to have a 1991 Accord EX (he traded it towards a 2004 TSX shortly before I got my TL). The seats in his Accord gave adequate BACK support, but inadequate butt support in the sense that the lower cushion didn't extend far enough down your thighs. It felt like you were trying to act like a woman who is daintily perching on the edge of her seat at tea-time, rather than acting like an adult male driving a car. The TL does not suffer from this problem. If anything, there is almost TOO MUCH butt space, in the sense that my TL has a few wrinkle marks in the leather from my left leg from working the clutch in traffic. I would rather have this problem than have too little support, however.

Just had to clarify my original post.

1995hoo

Mega thread bump here because I remembered my long post up above from January 2006 to start this thread. Today marks 20 years to the day since I bought my TL. It’s still going strong. I have to get the Virginia emissions inspection done sometime in the next few weeks so I can renew my registration, but I have some time on that.

I re-read this thread to see whether I thought my comments from 18 years ago were still valid and I think they are, other than that I now have Continental tires on the car (primarily because I got a good price on them last time I needed tires). The car is on its second clutch and its third timing belt; I’ve had the spark plugs changed twice, the extra time because of an engine misfire. I still love driving the car. I don’t put nearly as many miles on it as I used to because I telecommute—tomorrow is actually going to be the first day I’ve been into the office this year. After 20 years, I have a mere 149,170 miles (thus averaging a tick under 7500 a year). Part of that is also that my wife has a 2015 TLX, which has become our primary car for longer drives. The last longer trip so far on which we used the TL was in February 2023 for a trip to North Carolina for an outdoor NHL game—I was concerned about the TLX's tires being rather worn and I refused to drive it that far. We also don’t drive to Florida anymore when we visit relatives—last couple of trips we’ve flown and rented a car.

The three main things about the TLX that I miss in the TL are the backup camera, the proximity sensors (which go hand-in-hand with the backup camera), and the adaptive cruise control. Those are relatively minor on the whole, though, and no matter how much I drive the TLX, getting back into the TL always feels like coming home.

The only notable thing that’s broken on the TL is the cover for the front cupholders. Not sure what happened, but the cover that slides in and out mysteriously broke, but at least it was in the open position so I can use the cupholders. A few of the dashboard button/switch lights are burned out. And the red idiot light for the passenger airbag comes on when the front passenger seatbelt is fastened. The buckle needs to be replaced. It was supposed to be done under warranty once, but my wife took the car in for me and then told them not to do it (evidently, she didn’t understand there was no charge). I reamed her out a bit for not having them do the work I asked to have done. But in the scheme of things, that’s a relatively minor annoyance.