BG74

Maybe because a chinese license plate won't fit in the space designed for a US plate, thus the reverse lights had to be moved.

Imtheweezel

J-hawk

As far as AWD goes, that is not supposed to be introduced until the 09 TL Type S. My roommate from when I was in college works for Honda and is currently working on the next TL. I try to get updates as often as possible.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

This type of system has already been invented and built years ago. It's really hard to manage a separate hybrid system like that. And the main reason why we're not seeing it on production cars is due to the ENORMOUS R&D costs, materials costs, and production costs. Merely spreading it over two model line-ups will not justify the costs, especially on an Accord and a TL. Hell, Toyota is selling their hybrid Synergy system from the Prius to other car companies to justify the costs.

Look at the Accord right now. The hybrid version is considered top of the line and commands a premium of several thousand dollars over a similarly equipped gasoline engine Accord. Imagine if they went with the system you're suggesting; would you honestly buy a 40k-dollar+ Accord? No way. And even if some people did, what percentage of all Accord sales would that account for? Probably 1-2%, which will not come anywhere close to paying for the costs.

Mitsubishi has an operable system on a prototype Eclipse right now. Guaran-damn-teed that we won't see it in production for several more years, though, and it will be performance-oriented which means costs be damned (premium tags). It will be like another decade until we start seeing cost-efficient, affordable separate hybrid system like that.

ftam767

do you think the 07 TL will have daytime running lights and auto on/off headlights? that's what I would like to see on it...

dampfnudel

I don't know about auto on/off headlights, but I can guarantee you that DRL's will be on the 07 TL. I also have a feeling that the foglights will go to the bumper.

Chet03TL-S

No one knows if the 07 TL refresh will be shown at the auto show. Does anyone remember if they showed other cars going through their mid-cycle refresh at auto shows. I don't remember if the 06TSX refresh was ever shown at an auto show but I could be wrong.

AltecBX

My friend confirmed me, that the '07 won't be in the NYC show at 34st. They won't announce anything until July-August of '06. This is pissing me off, since I'm waiting to see the spec on it. I know it has to have more HP than the '07 Camry. I'm getting really close on just buying the '06 330i. I'm trying to be patient, but want a new car for the summer.

samkws

i only concern the power of the car, since the new camry will have 269hp and the 258hp TL will not be able to put them away

Mike_TX

Well, the first few tests of the new Camry don't suggest they'll be much competition for the TL ... at least 0-60mph.

Acura isn't as concerned with "putting away" Camry's as you are. They want to be competitive, but they're more concerned with cost and production considerations than just beating Camry's.

It's hard to imagine, but even making a small change to the intake or exhaust of a production car costs tons. And given the displacement limitation in the TL, they've wrung most of the "easy" hp out of it already.

Look for the next Gen TL to have the 3.5 liter engine used in the RL, since the 3.2 has about shot its wad.

Abbass Hassani

Look at what they did for the 06 TSX...they got 206 horsies outa the same 2.4 liter engine using the NEW SAE standard...before, on the 05 model they had about 200...using the old method of HP measurement. So technically it had about 185-190 HP on the old model and thats a good 20 HP increase by making some very modest changes...I think their is more power to get out of this 3.2 liter...expect 270-280 HP from the same engine using the NEW SAE standard measurement for 07...

Cheers

Fossil_TL

The M3 3.2 litter has over 333HP, so I dont see squeezing another 20 hp out of the current 3.2 liter engine to be very difficult for Honda. Look at the RSX, it has 100hp/ liter as well as the s2k

03CoupeV6

TOV noted back when the CL-S6 was released that the J32A2 was not even close to its potential output. The J32A3 in the 04+ TL only made 10 more HP than the A2 when it was released. They can probably get significantly more horsepower from the engine, but without force-feeding it, the torque level may be about to the maximum.

Saintor

Well, it may be more difficult than you think. The TL has a SOHC engine (and no i-VTEC).

With the 3.5 Odyssey engine (DOHC), probably.

Mike_TX

Yep, the M3 is totally different engineering. Even if Honda does squeeze a few more ponies out of the current engine, torque will only suffer more. The 3.2 has reached a deadend, and Honda knows it. Okay for Accords for awhile, but the TL will need more. That's why they didn't try to use it in the RL.

AltecBX

I hear that the '08 Accord will get the 3.2 to compete with the Camry 3.5. So in that case, is only right to get the 3.5 for the TL to compete with the G35, ES350 and the likes. The NYC auto show will have the new MDX and RDX, but not the ’07 TL. I guess is the year for the SUV’s there. I really want to see what the new TL will have, since that '07 Camry SE is looking really sweet with 18" wheels. Honda has made engines to get almost 100HP per liter, so is not hard to get almost 300HP from the 3.2. But the torque is another issue, increasing torque over 25% will make the TL to powerful for its' current FWD platform. I've driven a Maxima and G35 with its' VQ 3.5 back to back. What a difference that 3.5 engine makes when matted with a RWD platform. I really don't see the TL ever having more than 300HP without changing to RWD or AWD in the future (Hopefully in '09). The ’07 TL (258HP) should receive an additional 25-30HP as the Type-S did back in ’02 to stay shy from the ’06 RL (290HP). Torque should come up 10-15 from its’ current (233lbs) to shay shy from the ’06 RL (256lbs). Ideally the ’07 TL should be a 3.2VTEC 280HP & 246lbs-ft of torque, 18” Wheels with 245/45/18 all season, 6 speed Transmission, keyless entry, push button start, Side mirror turn signal, Ventilated rear disc, 4 piston fronts on Auto transmission, lower the drag from 0.29 to 0.28 for more downforce, Opt. AFL lighting, Opt. traffic NAV, etc…

AltecBX

I mean look at the '07 RDX, is producing 240HP and 260 ft-lbs of torque out of a 2.3 engine using a variable flow turbocharger to save on fuel. If they throw that in the TL, it will easily have 300HP with at least 280 ft-lbs of torque. Remember BMW 335i (302HP), will also have something similar to this using the current 330i (255HP) engine. BMW realized it, that having less than 300HP in this day in age for a 35K+ car is not the future. Honda, should step out of its conservative shell and start making product that consumers are requesting.

sweetride01

Altec, what you say about the drag coefficient does not really make sense. If you lower the drag coeff., you are lowering the cars' resistance to air flow per unit area. Adding downforce adds drag. You would not expect a land speed record car to be able to do much high speed cornering.
Ya can't have it both ways.

Also, 18s are fine, just as long as they are lightweight.

mlody

I wish '07 TL had this lighting.
BTW Any idea how to incorporate this RL lighting into TL?

TL CHROMETIDE

I didn't know the RL had that. Looks frikken nice.

AltecBX

The G35 has one of the lowest drag and it also has more downforce as well.

Mike_TX

Dude, the turbocharger isn't on there to "save on fuel" ... it's for power.

And all this talk of 100hp/liter is wasted as far as the TL is concerned. They aren't going to go forced induction of any kind on the TL just to get the hp closer to the Camry's. Face it, they already have a 3.5 liter engine, and displacement is the quickest, easiest and most reliable way to hp and torque. There's no reason to keep on trying to squeeze more hp out of the 3.2, especially when EVERYONE else has more displacement. Hell, even Hyundai has more than 3.2!

I for one am ready to see more displacement, since we'll get more torque instead of just upping hp at the expense of reduced torque.

shingles

The current 3.2 is hardly tapped out... or as another poster says "shot it's wad".
Intake, instake manifold, exhaust manifold design, the "y pipe", exhaust, ECU tuning, cam profile, compression, combustion chamber, can ALL be worked on for more power. If the purpose is the 11hp that it has less than the camry, then don't worry, you can find 11hp in the above items...

FWIW - Jeff at TOV mentioned that his sources mentioned that the current J series is hardly tapped out, yes SOHC and all.

Upping hp at the same displacement does not "reduce" torque... You make hp two ways... make torque or rev higher. So if Honda chooses to keep the redline the same, you can only make more HP by making more torque.

fuckleberry

just install a couple LEDs
I got mine from here www.dav-electronics.com

Mike_TX

Yeah, and you can strap on rocket boosters or use nitro fuel. But the point is that the engine has yielded all it reasonably can without giving up reliability, drivability, torque or something else. Otherwise, wouldn't they have done it, especially with the new SAE rating system that embarassed Honda/Acura?


Sorry, but it does, too ... after all, horsepower is nothing more than torque + time. Keep everything else the same and you can play with one or the other but one will have to change if the other one does. And the relationship is inverse (meaning one goes up, the other goes down).

Now, if you change something mechanically, you can sometimes change that relationship, but the displacement will always be the limiting factor on any given motor. Any old hot-rodder will tell you that.

And Honda doesn't "choose to keep the redline the same". The redline is dictated by the engine configuration; i.e., the number and size/weight of valves, the rotational mass of the crank and the valvetain, the cam profile, etc., etc. If Honda just "decided" to raise the redline, you'd start seeing engines blowing.

AltecBX

If you add new pistons, a revised intake system, electronic exhaust valve timing and a more aggressive camshaft to deliver more power, adjust the management system, you can definite increase HP and torque.

acura818

Hi all. Today I went to the dealer where I bought my new TL to get some all season floor mats and while waiting I asked their GM of 17 years with the company..."I keep hearing alot of talk that the next TL will be either RWD or AWD...can you give me your honest thoughts/opinions about that?". He laughed a little and said..."if I had a dime for everytime someone asked me that question...but seriously speaking my answer is a definite no...just take a look at our closest competator ( as he was pointing across the street at a G35 )...that 4 door 280hp engine can burn the crap out of the TL's V6 at any speed and you can get it in a RWD or AWD but our latest TL sales #'s in north america are showing that for whatever reason people are buying more TL's than G35's so would you tamper with something that's beating your closest competitor...no...you would just tweek it". Interesting point of view I wanted to share with you guys.

jmbnova

That is interesting... kind of makes sense too... but it also would be a money decision for them. To put out a RWD would be a complete redesign... the best I think we can hope for is when they redesign the RL, then they will probably take the SH-AWD system in the RL now and make it available in the TL..

JustinZ

if anything gets awd 1st im betting it'll be the accord or tsx first

SPIN

Any car manufacturer that sits still in today's auto market is moving behind. Acura would be making a big mistake if it did little to nothing to improve the TL. You have to keep up with the competition. Just about every major competitor of the TL has had major changes since 2004 while the TL has had virtually none. If the TL doesn't outshine the Accord or TSX, sales will drop like a rock. I can only assume that Acura knows this and I truly hope they don't get lazy.

fishacura

Yeah....check out Ford, GM, etc that have been tweaking and tweaking with new models etc and look where they are. It's not lazy but you don't mess with a model after a few model years. 5-6 is the right number in the business and then you re-design. This formula has worked well for Acura through the years. Not to mention, this specific issue is crazy. In today's world, just as many people would be turned off by a move to RWD as would buy for that reason. It's not all about 0-60 and handling...there are gas prices, bad weather patterns, etc. to consider.

jdb8805

I think TL will get SH-awd. It only makes sense. AWD is being seen more and more as a luxury/safety feature, it will please both crowds (RWD/FWD), and it won't require (as) extensive redesign.

SPIN

Ford and GM have had bad designs and engineering for years. That's why they are always tweaking their products. I don't see any of their models in competition with the TL other than the CTS. I have to add that change for Cadillac has been good. I'm certainly not arguing for RWD but Acura does need to improve the TL. A mid model refresh as they have done in the past is needed. As far as the redesign goes in around 2009, why do a redesign if your not going to change the car? I still stand by my original statement, any manufacturer that sits till is moving behind.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Here we go again.

Jesstzn

I currently have an AWD ( untill tomorrow that is ) and yes it is nice but you pay dearly every day for it.

1) Gas milage drops off dramatically ( 4/5 MPG )
2) extra weight.
3) Tire concerns .. destroy a tire when you have 70% tread left on all of them and you buy 4 new ones. You can't run more than 2/32 difference in tire size without a constant strain on the drive train which = wear and reduced milage.


Benifits in non-snow country

1) added traction in wet weather

Benifits in snow country

1) Will climb like a tractor
2) Expanded ability to use the accelerator to pull yourself out of problem situations in snow when cornering.
3) ESP is awesome compared to the ones in FWD.

Added intial cost up here is + $3000

chill_dog

Exactly what I was thinking...

sweatinmyac

i think that all of those who feel the tl is lacking upgrades etc. aka the constant complainers, are neglecting to realize the reason why they bought the car in the first place... considering all of the standard options and the price point, there is nothing that compares. this car is a low to mid $30k car not a $40k+ car. so if you're looking for awd, ventilated seats, adaptive cruise or whatever, get a different car. for the same reasons you bought a tl over an accord, step it up if you're not satisfied now with what the tl offers.

VelfarreClubber

If you want rwd/awd its gonna cost ya. sure the g35 is more "torqey" but my TL is getting much better mpg than his g35 so instead of filling up w/ 91 he sticks with 89 octane

3rd gen. TL = best overall design

neuronbob

And how many times do I have to tell you?

Dealers. Know. Nothing. They find out about this stuff a few weeks before we do.

Need I say more?

This thread is hereby merged into the 2007+ thread.

davenlei

From what I hear... and take it for what it is... an unproven source... but many of the features for new model vehicles from this source have been correct.

The '07 TL's are scheduled to have a 285hp type S model option (Engine:
3.2L SOHC HO VTEC V-6 (285hp @ 6200rpm)). I know many people say this is not happening but I do not see it listed as a cancelled manufacturing line item yet.
I also see from this source the '09 is to have an optional AWD choice.

You can say not true, etc. but I am just putting out what I have seen from this source. If I see pics, I will post them. So far, I do not see line items for the new model images.