2006+ (ALL NEW THREADS DEALING WITH 06+ TL WILL BE MERGED HERE) OFFICIAL SPECS PG. 11
08-01-2005, 07:25 PM
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I must say this is a little disappointing but I still think the TL is a great all around car. I guess the bright side is that I am now sitting on 225hp (at least that’s what I was told when I bought my 2000 TLP) and come the end of the year I will be sitting on 258hp. Plus the same folks I would have been smoking when I thought the car had 270hp, will be the same folks eating my 258hp dust. 
08-01-2005, 07:26 PM
#322
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Originally Posted by Steel
Similiar acceleration? The Auto TL's are posting 15 second 1/4 here, and the auto g35's are pulling easy mid 14's. Sorry that's not close.
I am SEVERELY disappointed in the performance of the TL. Of course I researched it, but those 14 second times from the mags seem to be BOGUS.
Had the g35 had a NICER interior the TL wouldnt have even been a thought.
I am SEVERELY disappointed in the performance of the TL. Of course I researched it, but those 14 second times from the mags seem to be BOGUS.
Had the g35 had a NICER interior the TL wouldnt have even been a thought.
Sounds like you made a mistake with your purchase decision. The TL is just as fast or slow as it was last week. Why do you give a rats ass what the numbers are? Sell the damn thing and buy a Mustang or WRX if you are so upset that you don't have the most HP/Dollar or whatever your standard is. Better still, get something with a HEMI. The 06 TL is only as fast/slow as the 04-05 TL.
08-01-2005, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill97Z
HP numbers are nothing more than marketing. I agree that you should drive the cars and go by performance. ALong with HP comes weight, gearing,etc. A G35 sedan has more HP but has similar acceleration. a BMW330i has much less advertised HP but beats the TL in the 1/4 mile and to 60.......
- blah blah blah the new mercedes benz has 450 hp and accelerates 0-60 in 4 seconds...- well thats fantastic, but the only person that can afford it is in their 60s and no longer drives 130mph down the freeway. Honestly its just rediculous. I live in a very affluent neighborhood and everyone that ownes nice cars here are soccer moms in their S500 or lexus gs300. So great, people that cant even drive have 300+hp cars. My car (05TL) already goes so damn fast I dont know what to do with it. Except get to work 54 seconds faster maybe, did I mention i live in the 7th biggest city in the USA, yea traffic is a bitch, so i go 0 to 60 in 6 seconds, and then go back to 0 due to grid lock, WOOPIE!! i could care less about measly 12 numbers, i would rather be listening to my 5.1 surround. If I cared that much I would of bought an old supra and spent the rest putting a turbo in it. If you really care about your cars power that much and want to see its potential Im afraid you are either going to have to do 2 things
A: take it out at 3 in the morning on the freeway
B:take it down a country road (I did that the other day, I was going 130 and it felt like I was going 60... friggin nuts)
but HP... not really important, I have determined the ranges it matters
100hp = weak.. pft...
200hp = alright we are getting somewhere
300 - 400hp = now we are taking
500+hp = I spent too much on my car and I get 12 mpg, meh...
08-01-2005, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MR1
Sounds like you made a mistake with your purchase decision. The TL is just as fast or slow as it was last week. Why do you give a rats ass what the numbers are? Sell the damn thing and buy a Mustang or WRX if you are so upset that you don't have the most HP/Dollar or whatever your standard is. Better still, get something with a HEMI. The 06 TL is only as fast/slow as the 04-05 TL.Read my sig next time, it's floating around. I own a fucking Vette, I didnt buy the TL for speed, but with 258 hp and the g35 sedan having 280, it's FUCKING PATHETIC.
And you're right, it's just as slow as it was last week, now it makes sense that the guys here with auto's are pulling 15 second quarter mile times. Way to go Acura, make a new model slower than the previous.
If I didnt get dooped by the Hp numbers and the magazines, I wouldnt have bought this 15 second machine. Although the styling and interior are right on.
08-01-2005, 09:14 PM
#326
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Originally Posted by Steel
Read my sig next time, it's floating around. I own a fucking Vette, I didnt buy the TL for speed, but with 258 hp and the g35 sedan having 280, it's FUCKING PATHETIC.
And you're right, it's just as slow as it was last week, now it makes sense that the guys here with auto's are pulling 15 second quarter mile times. Way to go Acura, make a new model slower than the previous.
If I didnt get dooped by the Hp numbers and the magazines, I wouldnt have bought this 15 second machine. Although the styling and interior are right on.
And you're right, it's just as slow as it was last week, now it makes sense that the guys here with auto's are pulling 15 second quarter mile times. Way to go Acura, make a new model slower than the previous.
If I didnt get dooped by the Hp numbers and the magazines, I wouldnt have bought this 15 second machine. Although the styling and interior are right on.
BD
08-01-2005, 09:31 PM
#328
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Originally Posted by Steel
Read my sig next time, it's floating around. I own a fucking Vette, I didnt buy the TL for speed, but with 258 hp and the g35 sedan having 280, it's FUCKING PATHETIC.
And you're right, it's just as slow as it was last week, now it makes sense that the guys here with auto's are pulling 15 second quarter mile times. Way to go Acura, make a new model slower than the previous.
If I didnt get dooped by the Hp numbers and the magazines, I wouldnt have bought this 15 second machine. Although the styling and interior are right on.
And you're right, it's just as slow as it was last week, now it makes sense that the guys here with auto's are pulling 15 second quarter mile times. Way to go Acura, make a new model slower than the previous.
If I didnt get dooped by the Hp numbers and the magazines, I wouldnt have bought this 15 second machine. Although the styling and interior are right on.
You've got a "fucking Vett" now go get a fucking "HYMIE" and move on. 
08-01-2005, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JackSprat01
Anyone else feel like pitching in and buying this guy's car so we can stop hearing all the bitching on what a dumbass he was for buying a car he didn't want? My god, every post man! Sounds like someone's pussy REALLY hurts. You've got a "fucking Vett" now go get a fucking "HYMIE" and move on.
You've got a "fucking Vett" now go get a fucking "HYMIE" and move on. 4000 miles, A-Spec, Navi, Anthracite with Camel Interior, set of 17" regular rims and michelin tires with 500 miles on them.
08-01-2005, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EmuMessenger
To me, the HP decrease (on paper) is not too big of a deal.
Where are the ventilated seat and smart-key options?
Still a great car!
Where are the ventilated seat and smart-key options?
Still a great car!
08-01-2005, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel
That tells me that they used the SAE net before.
I don't think Infiniti uses J2723 yet, hence the reason the numbers for '06 are the same as '05.
You keep saying that you didn't buy your TL for speed, and that you have a Vette for that. But why is that you bitch about the same thing in the same paragraph? Quit comparing the G35 to the TL. They weren't meant to be direct competitors. Compare it to the Maxima or something.
Or go trade in your TL for a G35. You're not even making a valid comparison between the two hp ratings, because I highly doubt that Infiniti uses the new method yet.
08-01-2005, 11:59 PM
#333
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Originally Posted by Steel
38k and she's gone.
4000 miles, A-Spec, Navi, Anthracite with Camel Interior, set of 17" regular rims and michelin tires with 500 miles on them.
4000 miles, A-Spec, Navi, Anthracite with Camel Interior, set of 17" regular rims and michelin tires with 500 miles on them.
BD
08-02-2005, 12:08 AM
#334
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That's sorry to hear TL doesn't perform like other cars. I have Auto and I just want my car to be toe to toe with G35 Sedan and new 330i, new A43.2.
I would try better air filter and turn off VSA before start. If I lose by half car length(that is my front is at his B pillar), I wouldn't feel so bad about it.
I would try better air filter and turn off VSA before start. If I lose by half car length(that is my front is at his B pillar), I wouldn't feel so bad about it.
08-02-2005, 03:09 AM
#335
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I agree with bloodfart. here is Acura's 05 information:
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
08-02-2005, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zeezz
I agree with bloodfart. here is Acura's 05 information:
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
We can't look back and say that the ratings from the 70's were inaccurate, because a different rating system was used back then. It would be "different" if today's standards were used, but that doesn't make it accurate or inaccurate. The cars from the old days measured on the gross rating system are still rated today to have those claimed published numbers, but it is always noted that they were based on the gross rating system.
It's no different with the recent change in the standards -- from now on, ratings based on the new system will be noted as so, to differentiate from the previous net ratings.
So what's the problem here? Acura is not a liar. In fact, Acura is one of the few honest ones, because they are exposing themselves VOLUNTARILY to a third party certification in presence of an independent witness of the testing procedure. So before you (you in general) accuse Acura of being a liar, or scamming people, learn something about the SAE standards and know what you're talking about. Acura made the smart move here; in fact, their stock just went up in my book for voluntarily adopting this system and being on the frontier of the industry. Other car companies are refusing to adpot this system for the fear that it could potentially bring down their claimed numbers and hurt them.
08-02-2005, 08:34 AM
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I don't think Steel has wrapped his brain around the fact that the Infiniti ratings are not tested using the same standard as the new 06. Seems like alot of fragile ego's out there with a "mines gotta be bigger" complex. There will always be another car thats faster, with more horsepower, get over it.
08-02-2005, 09:44 AM
#338
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Originally Posted by BloodFart
You're talking about the power-to-weight ratio, which is a totally different subject from SAE net horsepower rating itself.
People do make their purchase decisions based, to an extent, on the published horsepower rating. This is why we have standardized rating systems by the Society of Automotive Engineers. People expect somewhat accurate and standardized ratings, so that they can make educated comparisons and their final decision. You're telling us that basing our decision (albeit not solely) on the horsepower rating is foolish?
I bought my Type-S over the Premium model, because it had more horsepower, among other things. I guess I'm a fool.
But, lets say Acura came out with a Type-Z (we’ll call it the RL) that has 300 HP but because of the weight, and a slew of other factors, the car performs (speed-wise, NOT HANDLING) almost identically to the TLs 258 HP. Both cars are still slammed by the Elise’s 190 HP. And that’s the way its meant to be, the cars are in completely different classes. Bottom line is its all about the test drive; you shouldn’t care so much about HP.
Also to the people who keep comparing the G35 coupe to the TL (mostly Steel): drop it. If you expect your $32 grand entry-level luxury sedan that’s known for value and durability to kill a $39 grand mid-level performance RWD coupe, you should spend your time on the G35 board and stop complaining. I’m tired of people whining about how shitty the TL is because it lost in some street race to a STi. Everyone and their mother knows the TL is far superior to the G35 (and most every sub $50 grand car) in things like interior styling, technology, and stereo.
08-02-2005, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by zeezz
I agree with bloodfart. here is Acura's 05 information:
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3011?m...49914&mime=asc
as you can see, they used SAE Net. of course htey did. everyone does, Gross is an old method that is antiquidated now.
The newer SAE Net, which they just approved (J2723) in Aug 04, as shown by the date, is not yet used by all automakers. who knows, the G35 will probably drop as well, or might not.
please stop calling Acura a liar... they just did what was the standard.
All manufactures will post revised hp/ torque numbers. Now the question remains is whether BMW's claims will stay the same (as I've read that they have been posting "correct" numbers for some time) and if Nissan's cars/trucks and cars such as the new IS will continue to have the posted numbers. If Lexus for example is posting the IS's revised figures then imagine if SAE hadn't made changes what the hp numbers would be for the IS 350.
Anyway it's not that big of a deal to me as I always new my TL never put down 270 hp to the road but figured 230 or so.
08-02-2005, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by toynaround
I don't think Steel has wrapped his brain around the fact that the Infiniti ratings are not tested using the same standard as the new 06. Seems like alot of fragile ego's out there with a "mines gotta be bigger" complex. There will always be another car thats faster, with more horsepower, get over it.
We'll see what happens if/when Infiniti does it.
08-02-2005, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Stein
I'm not saying to consider the HP numbers in your decision is foolish, but the end goal of high horsepower is speed, acceleration, and feel, which is determined SOLELY by the way the car drives. My example with the Elise is to say HP numbers alone, as our friend Steel seems to think are PATHETIC, are completely useless and that there are a lot more factors that go into determining the speed, acceleration and feel of an automobile. You bought your Type-S not because it has 265 HP but because it drives better than the regular TL's 220. Of course, having that extra 45 HP is part of it, but there are a ton of additional factors that go into making the Type-S a better car.
But, lets say Acura came out with a Type-Z (we’ll call it the RL) that has 300 HP but because of the weight, and a slew of other factors, the car performs (speed-wise, NOT HANDLING) almost identically to the TLs 258 HP. Both cars are still slammed by the Elise’s 190 HP. And that’s the way its meant to be, the cars are in completely different classes. Bottom line is its all about the test drive; you shouldn’t care so much about HP.
Also to the people who keep comparing the G35 coupe to the TL (mostly Steel): drop it. If you expect your $32 grand entry-level luxury sedan that’s known for value and durability to kill a $39 grand mid-level performance RWD coupe, you should spend your time on the G35 board and stop complaining. I’m tired of people whining about how shitty the TL is because it lost in some street race to a STi. Everyone and their mother knows the TL is far superior to the G35 (and most every sub $50 grand car) in things like interior styling, technology, and stereo.
But, lets say Acura came out with a Type-Z (we’ll call it the RL) that has 300 HP but because of the weight, and a slew of other factors, the car performs (speed-wise, NOT HANDLING) almost identically to the TLs 258 HP. Both cars are still slammed by the Elise’s 190 HP. And that’s the way its meant to be, the cars are in completely different classes. Bottom line is its all about the test drive; you shouldn’t care so much about HP.
Also to the people who keep comparing the G35 coupe to the TL (mostly Steel): drop it. If you expect your $32 grand entry-level luxury sedan that’s known for value and durability to kill a $39 grand mid-level performance RWD coupe, you should spend your time on the G35 board and stop complaining. I’m tired of people whining about how shitty the TL is because it lost in some street race to a STi. Everyone and their mother knows the TL is far superior to the G35 (and most every sub $50 grand car) in things like interior styling, technology, and stereo.
If you're so tired of people whining about the TL losing a stop light race, stop fucking reading this forum. The TL is SUPPOSED to be up to par performance wise to its main competitor, THE G35. Dont try to argue they are not true competitors, because they are. Both entry level luxury, both in the same price range with similiar options. Clear as day. The TL has interior and styling in its favor IMO, but the performance WAS an attraction, and at 258 hp or 270hp it surely performs like an obese beast. (3600 lbs will do that).
08-02-2005, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Precision Crafted
It should also be noted that GM (for what it matters was the first manufacture to adopt the new ratings system). It is their attempt to be honest with customers.
All manufactures will post revised hp/ torque numbers. Now the question remains is whether BMW's claims will stay the same (as I've read that they have been posting "correct" numbers for some time) and if Nissan's cars/trucks and cars such as the new IS will continue to have the posted numbers. If Lexus for example is posting the IS's revised figures then imagine if SAE hadn't made changes what the hp numbers would be for the IS 350.
Anyway it's not that big of a deal to me as I always new my TL never put down 270 hp to the road but figured 230 or so.
All manufactures will post revised hp/ torque numbers. Now the question remains is whether BMW's claims will stay the same (as I've read that they have been posting "correct" numbers for some time) and if Nissan's cars/trucks and cars such as the new IS will continue to have the posted numbers. If Lexus for example is posting the IS's revised figures then imagine if SAE hadn't made changes what the hp numbers would be for the IS 350.
Anyway it's not that big of a deal to me as I always new my TL never put down 270 hp to the road but figured 230 or so.
08-02-2005, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Steel
Well it doesnt PUT 230 to the road, if you're an auto enjoy 210ish.
The rating system changes are fine. Yes, some car companies over rated their hp for marketing reasons while rumor has it Honda under rated the Accord V6 6 sp by 10 hp by reporting hp used with regular unleaded.
The TL is still a great car even if HP is "lower" as reported.
As for the TL loosing stop light drag races, well besides HP there are gearing issues to consider.
Hp isn't everything expect for bragging rights. IMO the G300 is a great car for what it is. Yes the AWD is slow and it is not as fun to drive my TL but I wouldn't buy one for speed but for the Lexus package as a whole.
The G35 is nice and I considered it, but I hated the dash, hated not having voice recognition to change the fan speed amoung other things etc.
08-02-2005, 10:50 AM
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OK, HERE IT IS
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
08-02-2005, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ElmerHiggins
OK, HERE IT IS
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
The Dyno numbers on this site for the Auto TL do not come close to 270 crank horsepower.
08-02-2005, 11:46 AM
#347
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Originally Posted by Steel
Way to get it backwards. You can get a similiarly loaded G35 for the same damn price as a TL. I dont own a 32k TL, I own a fully loaded navi/a-spec, you dont find those for sub 35,36,37,or 38k. For that kind of money you can have ANY g35 you want. Go price out the cheapest TL and the cheapest G35, the g35 is less.
If you're so tired of people whining about the TL losing a stop light race, stop fucking reading this forum. The TL is SUPPOSED to be up to par performance wise to its main competitor, THE G35. Dont try to argue they are not true competitors, because they are. Both entry level luxury, both in the same price range with similiar options. Clear as day. The TL has interior and styling in its favor IMO, but the performance WAS an attraction, and at 258 hp or 270hp it surely performs like an obese beast. (3600 lbs will do that).
If you're so tired of people whining about the TL losing a stop light race, stop fucking reading this forum. The TL is SUPPOSED to be up to par performance wise to its main competitor, THE G35. Dont try to argue they are not true competitors, because they are. Both entry level luxury, both in the same price range with similiar options. Clear as day. The TL has interior and styling in its favor IMO, but the performance WAS an attraction, and at 258 hp or 270hp it surely performs like an obese beast. (3600 lbs will do that).
Second of all, we could go on arguing this forever, and it all comes down to personal preference. I prefer a vehicle thats reliable, comfortable, with a magnificent interior, damn good styling, and very usable over a car thats faster, with 2 doors, handles well only in pristine conditions and spends every other month in the shop. For some people, its 100% sex apeal and speed. I'm just not one of those people.
Finally, THIS is a good example of peoples preferences. Notice the people who go for the G35 all say its because of speed while the people who say Acura mention styling and/or reliability. And once again, the G35 coupe is NOT in the same class as the Acura TL, so PLEASE stop comparing them performance-wise.
08-02-2005, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Stein
You need to do some reading my friend. First of all, comparing cars is NEVER about the cheapest. Buying anything is always about value. The barebones G35 doesn't have nearly the features as the barebones TL, hence the price. Once you add the premium stereo package, the 6MT, navi, etc the G35 quickly gets more expensive. And of course, the TL only has one option. Acura is famous for all options being standard, which I think is very classy. I don't consider things like aero packages and A-spec "options" in the traditional sense of the word; styling packages are always comparing apples to oranges.
Second of all, we could go on arguing this forever, and it all comes down to personal preference. I prefer a vehicle thats reliable, comfortable, with a magnificent interior, damn good styling, and very usable over a car thats faster, with 2 doors, handles well only in pristine conditions and spends every other month in the shop. For some people, its 100% sex apeal and speed. I'm just not one of those people.
Finally, THIS is a good example of peoples preferences. Notice the people who go for the G35 all say its because of speed while the people who say Acura mention styling and/or reliability. And once again, the G35 coupe is NOT in the same class as the Acura TL, so PLEASE stop comparing them performance-wise.
Second of all, we could go on arguing this forever, and it all comes down to personal preference. I prefer a vehicle thats reliable, comfortable, with a magnificent interior, damn good styling, and very usable over a car thats faster, with 2 doors, handles well only in pristine conditions and spends every other month in the shop. For some people, its 100% sex apeal and speed. I'm just not one of those people.
Finally, THIS is a good example of peoples preferences. Notice the people who go for the G35 all say its because of speed while the people who say Acura mention styling and/or reliability. And once again, the G35 coupe is NOT in the same class as the Acura TL, so PLEASE stop comparing them performance-wise.
Please explain to me why a car in the same price range, made by japanese luxury companies, with similiar power and features, arent in the same class? They are both ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY. Same damn class.
The g35 sedan is still faster than the TL so this whole "two door lack of reliability" is a bunch of crap. Infiniti's arent reliable? Give me a break.
At the end of the day I'd still rather be in my TL, but you're definitely ass backwards in your opinion.
Same class, PERIOD.
08-02-2005, 11:54 AM
#349
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Oh my god, when will you people get it?!?!?! Nothing was overstated, it's just a new way of calculating the number! THEY CHANGED THE FORMULA!! For example: (5+5)/2 = 5 whereas 5+5/2 = 7.5...same numbers going into the equation, slightly different operations performed, different results are produced. 
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
08-02-2005, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by chill_dog
Oh my god, when will you people get it?!?!?! Nothing was overstated, it's just a new way of calculating the number! THEY CHANGED THE FORMULA!! For example: (5+5)/2 = 5 whereas 5+5/2 = 7.5...same numbers going into the equation, slightly different operations performed, different results are produced.
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
08-02-2005, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerHiggins
OK, HERE IT IS
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
I'm not exactly sure (neither is anyone else at this point) what exaclty is going on with the Horsepower ratings of the 3gen TL but if it turns out Acura (to put it nicely) inaccurately measured or stated the horespower of the 04/05 TLs then they have a problem on their hands. This issue is similar to the Mazda RX8 issue where the numbers for that vehicle were overestimated, Mazda had given the RX8 owners that were misled some free modification.
If it turns out that our TL's (04 and 05) are not actually 270, then as a group, Acura will have to make amends for their failure to disclose accurate information about a new vehicle.
This is a TOTALLY different issue from the misrepresented hp rating on the RX-8.
The new number, 258 hp, comes from a revised system of horsepower and torque measurement. There's nothing wrong here.
08-02-2005, 12:10 PM
#352
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Originally Posted by Steel
Read my sig next time, it's floating around. I own a fucking Vette, I didnt buy the TL for speed, but with 258 hp and the g35 sedan having 280, it's FUCKING PATHETIC.
08-02-2005, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Dude you need to get a grip on reality! the car is NO slower that it was before. so whats FUCKING PATHETIC about it? because they went to a new sae rating? if any thing it shows that the TL uses its power VERY efficantly as opposed to the more powerfull not much faster G35, Now thats FUCKING PATHETIC!
08-02-2005, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel
Please explain to me why a car in the same price range, made by japanese luxury companies, with similiar power and features, arent in the same class? They are both ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY. Same damn class.
The g35 sedan is still faster than the TL so this whole "two door lack of reliability" is a bunch of crap. Infiniti's arent reliable? Give me a break.
At the end of the day I'd still rather be in my TL, but you're definitely ass backwards in your opinion.
Same class, PERIOD.
The g35 sedan is still faster than the TL so this whole "two door lack of reliability" is a bunch of crap. Infiniti's arent reliable? Give me a break.
At the end of the day I'd still rather be in my TL, but you're definitely ass backwards in your opinion.
Same class, PERIOD.
As a result, we have a fantastic handler in the 30k-dollar range which can come in the form of RWD or AWD with automatic or manual transmission. However, the money went into the chassis, powertrain and drivetrain development. Costs were spared in other departments such as interior. This is why people criticize G35 for their subpar interior quality.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have our TL. Yes, it comes either in automatic or manual. But it was never meant to accommodate anything other than the FWD configuration and the chassis is not as well-developed as the G35. However, the TL has much better interior and overall quality than the G35. This means that the TL is a more all-around car that can suit the needs of average Joe who lives in the snow belt and doesn't want RWD, but can't afford the more expensive AWD alternatives.
Once again, I emphasize that from day one, each car's R&D started off with a focus on different goals. The G35 was conceived as a RWD/AWD performance sports coupe/sedan with a high output V6 and great handling, at the sacrifice of other areas such as the interior.
The TL was conceived as the more all-around alternative who did not focus on performance as much, but wanted better exhibition of engineering, design, execution and quality all around.
So yeah, while they have some common grounds such as the country of origin, sub-40k rang, V6, whatever, they aren't exactly a match made in heaven.
08-02-2005, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Stein
I'm not saying to consider the HP numbers in your decision is foolish, but the end goal of high horsepower is speed, acceleration, and feel, which is determined SOLELY by the way the car drives. My example with the Elise is to say HP numbers alone, as our friend Steel seems to think are PATHETIC, are completely useless and that there are a lot more factors that go into determining the speed, acceleration and feel of an automobile. You bought your Type-S not because it has 265 HP but because it drives better than the regular TL's 220. Of course, having that extra 45 HP is part of it, but there are a ton of additional factors that go into making the Type-S a better car.
But, lets say Acura came out with a Type-Z (we’ll call it the RL) that has 300 HP but because of the weight, and a slew of other factors, the car performs (speed-wise, NOT HANDLING) almost identically to the TLs 258 HP. Both cars are still slammed by the Elise’s 190 HP. And that’s the way its meant to be, the cars are in completely different classes. Bottom line is its all about the test drive; you shouldn’t care so much about HP.
But, lets say Acura came out with a Type-Z (we’ll call it the RL) that has 300 HP but because of the weight, and a slew of other factors, the car performs (speed-wise, NOT HANDLING) almost identically to the TLs 258 HP. Both cars are still slammed by the Elise’s 190 HP. And that’s the way its meant to be, the cars are in completely different classes. Bottom line is its all about the test drive; you shouldn’t care so much about HP.
We're cool. We are on the same page. Just a little misunderstanding.
08-02-2005, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BloodFart
The R&D in the G35 was HEAVILY focused on chassis development. They wanted a stout platform in which they can build several models, accommodate two different drivetrain configurations and exhibit good handling characteristics.
As a result, we have a fantastic handler in the 30k-dollar range which can come in the form of RWD or AWD with automatic or manual transmission. However, the money went into the chassis, powertrain and drivetrain development. Costs were spared in other departments such as interior. This is why people criticize G35 for their subpar interior quality.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have our TL. Yes, it comes either in automatic or manual. But it was never meant to accommodate anything other than the FWD configuration and the chassis is not as well-developed as the G35. However, the TL has much better interior and overall quality than the G35. This means that the TL is a more all-around car that can suit the needs of average Joe who lives in the snow belt and doesn't want RWD, but can't afford the more expensive AWD alternatives.
Once again, I emphasize that from day one, each car's R&D started off with a focus on different goals. The G35 was conceived as a RWD/AWD performance sports coupe/sedan with a high output V6 and great handling, at the sacrifice of other areas such as the interior.
The TL was conceived as the more all-around alternative who did not focus on performance as much, but wanted better exhibition of engineering, design, execution and quality all around.
So yeah, while they have some common grounds such as the country of origin, sub-40k rang, V6, whatever, they aren't exactly a match made in heaven.
As a result, we have a fantastic handler in the 30k-dollar range which can come in the form of RWD or AWD with automatic or manual transmission. However, the money went into the chassis, powertrain and drivetrain development. Costs were spared in other departments such as interior. This is why people criticize G35 for their subpar interior quality.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have our TL. Yes, it comes either in automatic or manual. But it was never meant to accommodate anything other than the FWD configuration and the chassis is not as well-developed as the G35. However, the TL has much better interior and overall quality than the G35. This means that the TL is a more all-around car that can suit the needs of average Joe who lives in the snow belt and doesn't want RWD, but can't afford the more expensive AWD alternatives.
Once again, I emphasize that from day one, each car's R&D started off with a focus on different goals. The G35 was conceived as a RWD/AWD performance sports coupe/sedan with a high output V6 and great handling, at the sacrifice of other areas such as the interior.
The TL was conceived as the more all-around alternative who did not focus on performance as much, but wanted better exhibition of engineering, design, execution and quality all around.
So yeah, while they have some common grounds such as the country of origin, sub-40k rang, V6, whatever, they aren't exactly a match made in heaven.
Could you imagine a Skyline not performing??? Anyway, the TL is based on Honda's Global Midsize platform. That platform is used with the Accord all the way to the RL. As we all know, the Accord is no street fighter. So Acura has to dial in some sport to make the TSX, TL, and RL "better".
My dream would be for the RL and TL to be based on a new platform that could be used with the rumored premium sedan above the RL and the new Acura coupe. The Mid-size platform can be used with the TSX and Accord. With the TSX being sold else where as an Accord and the US Accord being sold else where as the Inspire then the platform will get used and plants will be running at or near capacity. The new platform will get mileage as Acura is being introduced into China and who knows were else were the TL, CSX??, and ?L can be sold.
08-02-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by chill_dog
Oh my god, when will you people get it?!?!?! Nothing was overstated, it's just a new way of calculating the number! THEY CHANGED THE FORMULA!! For example: (5+5)/2 = 5 whereas 5+5/2 = 7.5...same numbers going into the equation, slightly different operations performed, different results are produced.
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
Also, you can't compare HP numbers of cars that use the NEW method to HP numbers of cars that use the OLD method...like comparing apples to oranges...
Maybe the mods can take the last 2-3 pages out of this thread and put them into another thread called "POINTLESS DEBATE OF NEW HP CALCULATION" so that the 2006 TL thread can stay clean...then, someone can post a reply that shows the HP for a 69 Camero SS based on the standard in 1969, the standard in whatever year in the 70's it changed, and the most recent standard...then, maybe these people will get it...
08-02-2005, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Precision Crafted
Well put. The Mid-ship platform was developed for the Skyline, FX seriers, M series, Z, and G35.
Could you imagine a Skyline not performing??? Anyway, the TL is based on Honda's Global Midsize platform. That platform is used with the Accord all the way to the RL. As we all know, the Accord is no street fighter. So Acura has to dial in some sport to make the TSX, TL, and RL "better".
Could you imagine a Skyline not performing??? Anyway, the TL is based on Honda's Global Midsize platform. That platform is used with the Accord all the way to the RL. As we all know, the Accord is no street fighter. So Acura has to dial in some sport to make the TSX, TL, and RL "better".
Essentially, Steel is comparing our FWD TL to the 350Z. That is neither a fair or a valid comparison.
08-02-2005, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Dude you need to get a grip on reality! the car is NO slower that it was before. so whats FUCKING PATHETIC about it? because they went to a new sae rating? if any thing it shows that the TL uses its power VERY efficantly as opposed to the more powerfull not much faster G35, Now thats FUCKING PATHETIC!
You call the G35 pathetic, yet it runs at least half a second fast in comparable auto models. It seems the only thing Acura got right was a few of the manuals that pull low 14's.
08-02-2005, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BloodFart
Essentially, Steel is comparing our FWD TL to the 350Z. That is neither a fair or a valid comparison.
When I can buy either car for under 40k loaded, and they have nearly the same features, short of a few amenities in the TL, they're comparable. I dont care about their platform.