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I followed Mofojo's instruction to the dot, took me 12 hours because I was being careful doing it for the first time. I read all 40 pages of post in case you didn't know. 90% of the people didn't change those seals in over 1600 posts. I struggled with the water pump? For about 5 minutes. Anyone can pay someone to get it done. I bet you pay someone to change battery in your cell phone, too. Arguing with you is completely pointless which takes this thread off the track. When you take that crank and cam seals off YOURSELF, then take some pictures and post them here. I'm enjoying the $875 I saved from the local Honda dealer here. Now I feel confident working on any J series engine and know the car inside out, THANKS TO MOFOJO.
Another successful customer. My 04 has 93k miles so I figured I'd go ahead and do it for peace of mind. I struggled with the crank bolt for about 10 minutes before I gave up and just used the bump start method. Worked like a charm...
The PITA parts for me were loosening that rear drain plug on the block, and the upper back bolt on the lower timing cover. But my large tool collection actually came in handy. And I even added a few with the money I saved doing it myself. Getting the belt on was no problem because I left the idler pulley loose and that gives you a bit more wiggle room. I wouldn't recommend leaving the water pump loose...
As far as proof of service for resale, it's called keeping receipts and taking pics along the way. I also am saving the old parts and I wrote the date and mileage on the inside of the lower timing cover with a paint pen...
I also replaced the 3 motor mounts and upper side trans mount and I can't believe the difference. She's so smooth now...
(BTW: All the parts I removed looked good. No signs of leakage on the bearings or wear on the belt. Original water pump still looked great and spun freely just like the new one...)
(BTW: All the parts I removed looked good. No signs of leakage on the bearings or wear on the belt. Original water pump still looked great and spun freely just like the new one...)
I initially had trouble getting the new belt back on, then realized I had to turn one of the cam pulleys about half a notch due to the old belt stretching a little. While the belt may look good(mine looked great), I hope nobody uses this as an excuse to go too far beyond 105k.
Question: when do you decide it's worth it to let a dealer/independent do this job?
I'm at 170k, so about 30k more to go before my cars 2nd timing belt service (I bought the car at 160k and 1st owner had it done already)
So I can do brake jobs, oil change, and ATF change by myself. I have a fair amount of basic tools but reading through quickly the procedure/tools and the tons of discussion of much nuanced tips/tricks/advice for various steps in this job...I'm afraid of scerwing things up and also having to make multiple trips to the store to get this tool or what tool, etc. etc.
So my question is...how much should a service like this cost at a independent shop? And how much screwed if we do take it to a honda/acura dealer?
i got the service quoted by a respected honda/acura independent but they quoted it as $1025 for parts, labor, and tax. i told them i can supply the parts and they said it would be $625 for labor and coolant. to me that seems pretty high so i'm asking a few more shops.
i've done all my work on my car myself in the apartment parking lot but i don't want to tackle this diy. i don't have access to an impact and most importantly i don't want to mess with something as crucial as timing.
Originally Posted by nist7
Question: when do you decide it's worth it to let a dealer/independent do this job?
So my question is...how much should a service like this cost at a independent shop? And how much screwed if we do take it to a honda/acura dealer?
i've done searching on this and it seems like most places get quoted at the dealer for 1000-1400, with a few exceptions where Hamilton Honda did it for like 700 (but I think they're back east somewhere haha)
Question: when do you decide it's worth it to let a dealer/independent do this job?
I'm at 170k, so about 30k more to go before my cars 2nd timing belt service (I bought the car at 160k and 1st owner had it done already)
So I can do brake jobs, oil change, and ATF change by myself. I have a fair amount of basic tools but reading through quickly the procedure/tools and the tons of discussion of much nuanced tips/tricks/advice for various steps in this job...I'm afraid of scerwing things up and also having to make multiple trips to the store to get this tool or what tool, etc. etc.
So my question is...how much should a service like this cost at a independent shop? And how much screwed if we do take it to a honda/acura dealer?
Physically the hardest part is getting that crank pulley bolt off. If you have air tools(heavy ones), maybe a torch, some PB Blaster and the correct adapters for holding the pulley while you hammer it I'd say it's probably accessible to a mid level DIYer. Some have had success with the starter bump trick, but I would never attempt it.
Belt, cam, piston alignment is crucial. In my case I had to turn one of the cams slightly to get the new belt on, you've got to be able to know which way to turn it. I left the old belt on when loosening the crank pulley bolt to keep everything aligned. Get some nail polish and mark everything and try your best not to rotate anything during the process.
The PS pump hoses always make me nervous, I always fear stripping the aluminum threads. Buy new PS hose seals, and if you're feeling extra sassy and have a pulley removal tool you can go after the internal PS pump seals.
The rest depends on how valuable your time is to you and how much you trust your mechanic. If you go the mechanic route, definitely source the parts yourself from acuraoemparts.com or from ebay (AISIN kit, koyo bearings, honda belt) $275-$325 and find a mechanic that will install it. If you use the Labor = parts x 2 calculation you're probably talking $1,000+ at a mechanic shop. Dealer is most likely more and probably won't let you bring your own parts.
Honda would normally quote the tbelt/wp at 6 hours, thermostat at 1-2 hours, and spark plugs at 1 hour... It changes dealer to dealer but that's how it was explained to me.
Honda would normally quote the tbelt/wp at 6 hours, thermostat at 1-2 hours, and spark plugs at 1 hour... It changes dealer to dealer but that's how it was explained to me.
Honda would normally quote the tbelt/wp at 6 hours, thermostat at 1-2 hours, and spark plugs at 1 hour... It changes dealer to dealer but that's how it was explained to me.
6 hours seems right.
i got quoted $40 for the thermostat if i supplied parts and was getting other items done.
spark plugs weren't part of my quote. that was part of the valve adjustment (which i'm not doing...when should we do that?), which was another $500.
Well thermo is probably one rate, thermo while the coolants already drained for the 105k another. That's probably why she told me a range. That's NJ rates. Waiting for the response from Florida.
i got the service quoted by a respected honda/acura independent but they quoted it as $1025 for parts, labor, and tax. i told them i can supply the parts and they said it would be $625 for labor and coolant. to me that seems pretty high so i'm asking a few more shops.
i've done all my work on my car myself in the apartment parking lot but i don't want to tackle this diy. i don't have access to an impact and most importantly i don't want to mess with something as crucial as timing.
625 is a little high, but not unreasonable. It's worth paying a little more to have the right person do the job. You might find a shop be able to do it for around 400. That would be a good deal. You should really have a static place to do the job so you can walk away from it and be conducive to taking your time. Uncovered apartment parking lot is not conducive for a timing belt job unless you bulldoze through it on a mild day. I'd check other shops.
Originally Posted by nist7
Question: when do you decide it's worth it to let a dealer/independent do this job?
I'm at 170k, so about 30k more to go before my cars 2nd timing belt service (I bought the car at 160k and 1st owner had it done already)
So I can do brake jobs, oil change, and ATF change by myself. I have a fair amount of basic tools but reading through quickly the procedure/tools and the tons of discussion of much nuanced tips/tricks/advice for various steps in this job...I'm afraid of scerwing things up and also having to make multiple trips to the store to get this tool or what tool, etc. etc.
So my question is...how much should a service like this cost at a independent shop? And how much screwed if we do take it to a honda/acura dealer?
You still have about 40-50k miles before needing another belt. You need the right tools for the job. Everything is detailed here, if not in the OP, in recommendations from others like nfn, rs143, 94, etc. If you have the confidence and mindset of doing the job, yet still have questions, ask away. Otherwise, educating yourself and then going to talk to shops about what exactly you want done / replaced might kill any bullshit and up-pricing. Although a good shop won't bullshit you.
Shops have a lot of overhead and some of those costs go to doing the job. Tools, insurance, etc. A mobile mechanic might charge you 200-300, but a good shop might charge 500-600. It's the cost of doing business. It's sometimes better to pay a little more for the right person to do the job. If you don't have the right tools and place to do it, I'd recommend letting a pro do it.
Originally Posted by ekrekel
Physically the hardest part is getting that crank pulley bolt off. If you have air tools(heavy ones), maybe a torch, some PB Blaster and the correct adapters for holding the pulley while you hammer it I'd say it's probably accessible to a mid level DIYer. Some have had success with the starter bump trick, but I would never attempt it.
Belt, cam, piston alignment is crucial. In my case I had to turn one of the cams slightly to get the new belt on, you've got to be able to know which way to turn it. I left the old belt on when loosening the crank pulley bolt to keep everything aligned. Get some nail polish and mark everything and try your best not to rotate anything during the process.
The PS pump hoses always make me nervous, I always fear stripping the aluminum threads. Buy new PS hose seals, and if you're feeling extra sassy and have a pulley removal tool you can go after the internal PS pump seals.
Meh, barring any physical manifestations, it's hard to say. At 106K, my valves were only out of spec by 0.001" (intakes loose, exhaust tight). I adjusted them to spec, but could tell absolutely no difference in performance or mileage.
The unknown in this is the exact starting spec of the valves when the engine was built in the factory. I'll be doing my second TB change and valve adjustment in Dec/Jan, so I'll have a better perspective of relative change since I know what I set the valves at during the first TB change.
In reality, I suspect you could probably go 165K - 210K before worrying about a valve adjustment.
6 hours seems right.
i got quoted $40 for the thermostat if i supplied parts and was getting other items done.
spark plugs weren't part of my quote. that was part of the valve adjustment (which i'm not doing...when should we do that?), which was another $500.
$40 is about right.. it's a 15 minute job with the right wrench. Don't listen to maha.. fool didn't even open the hood on this job. He's regurgitating his service writers word
Originally Posted by maharajamd
Well thermo is probably one rate, thermo while the coolants already drained for the 105k another. That's probably why she told me a range. That's NJ rates. Waiting for the response from Florida.
Originally Posted by sockr1
two more quotes (parts, labor, tax) from respected shops: one was 1200, and the other was 1600
when should we do valve adjustments?
Yeah, ask how much just for labor. They're making their nut on the margins on the parts more than likely. If that's with Valve adjustment, 1200 is not terrible with all parts, not just timing belt and water pump.
That's a loaded question. You'll probably be okay to skip the valve adjustment, it's just the fact that you're in there already with the belt off, spark plugs and coils pulled. Might as well. You still need to pull the top end off like intake manifold and valve covers.
There have been several members on the forum who needed to do a valve adjustment between timing belt jobs because of misfires due to out-of-spec valves. I can't remember anyone needing to do so in a 3G TL though, mostly MDX and other gens from what I remember. YMMV.
Originally Posted by nfnsquared
Meh, barring any physical manifestations, it's hard to say. At 106K, my valves were only out of spec by 0.001" (intakes loose, exhaust tight). I adjusted them to spec, but could tell absolutely no difference in performance or mileage.
The unknown in this is the exact starting spec of the valves when the engine was built in the factory. I'll be doing my second TB change and valve adjustment in Dec/Jan, so I'll have a better perspective of relative change since I know what I set the valves at during the first TB change.
In reality, I suspect you could probably go 165K - 210K before worrying about a valve adjustment.
sockr1... There are several members in SD who have done this.. hit up the regional section and see if anyone is game to helping you out or giving you a recommendation!
spark plugs weren't part of my quote. that was part of the valve adjustment (which i'm not doing...when should we do that?), which was another $500.
Missed this part.. definitely do the spark plugs regardless of valve adjustment.
Also.. a valve adjustment alone (not part of combined labor with timing belt), could be as much as $1000, although $500 is too much combined with labor. I think a reasonable price should be ~$250.
Spark plugs are ~$60.. so if 500 is with labor + plugs + seals.. still a little high, but not as unreasonable.
sockr1... There are several members in SD who have done this.. hit up the regional section and see if anyone is game to helping you out or giving you a recommendation!
i've reached out to a few after going through the regional forum but most either haven't been on here in months (sometimes years) or haven't responded. i'll start a thread maybe that will get some traction.
thanks for all your help!! even though this is the first DIY i'm not attempting, you wrote it very well and i feel fairly knowledgeable when talking to shops and sourcing parts myself.
Oh I'm in a good mood today, unblocked after all this time because I knew if I give advice in your thread you'd be ragging on me. So let's go you absolute waste of breath.
What the manual says and what reality dictates are two totally different things. If they sound noisy at 45k, adjust them. If they pur at 150k, rock them. PRETTY FUCKING SIMPLE LOGIC THERE BOSS. Which is exactly what I just said.
Second, sure, go ahead and not replace the coolant when you swap the thermostat. You don't lose a lot, it's at the top. Radiator is fine. But that's not what most would do and certainly not what people who do this themselves would do.
And of course the thermo is a 15 minute job. It's two fucking bolts. But that's not what we are talking about here is it? You think a shop or dealer is going to charge you .25 hours for a thermostat? LOOOOOOOOOOOL. That's the beauty of FLAT RATE TECH WORK you fucking moron.
FLAT RATE WORK
You need to grow the fuck up and check your 'better then you' attitude at the fucking log in screen man. You are beyond obnoxious.
Last edited by maharajamd; 10-01-2015 at 12:08 PM.
And there's the narcissist we all know so well.. let's be honest, I was never blocked because you love to see what I post about you.
because I knew if I give advice in your thread you'd be ragging on me
Also..
If they sound noisy at 45k, adjust them. If they pur at 150k, rock them. PRETTY FUCKING SIMPLE LOGIC THERE BOSS.
because we all know valvetrain noise = out-of-spec valves = valve adjustment.
Show me the fucking book where it says 2 hours to replace the thermostat. And there are .5 hr increments in the book.. it's not all 1 hour blocks. But you know better..
You need to grow the fuck up and check your 'better then you' attitude at the fucking log in screen man. You are beyond obnoxious.
Says the guy giving expert advice in a thread filled with members who actually did the job.
You're telling me that I did or didn't block you to begin with and then YOU CALL me the narcissist? Seriously? OK!
Are you saying that a noisy valve train, aside from possible oil issues, doesn't indicate the valves need looked at and likely specced? Are you kidding me?
Why do you insist on thinking that I couldn't handle doing a J 105k myself? I mean really? Because I got a hookup while on a mini vacation means I can't do it myself? Like that's honestly how you feel? A few H's, a couple K's, surely a J couldn't be much different! I bet I've had my car torn down deeper myself then you ever had. Hell I bet I've done more tbelts/wp's on Hondas than you have.
But sure man. Keep trying to look down on people you don't even know. It shows your lack of maturity to the masses.
Last edited by maharajamd; 10-01-2015 at 12:21 PM.
You're telling me that I did or didn't block you to begin with and then YOU CALL me the narcissist? Seriously? OK!
Are you saying that a noisy valve train, aside from possible oil issues, doesn't indicate the valves need looked at and likely specced? Are you kidding me?
Why do you insist on thinking that I couldn't handle doing a J 105k myself? I mean really? Because I got a hookup while on a mini vacation means I can't do it myself? Like for real that's honestly how you feel? I bet I've had my car torn down deeper myself then you ever had.
You still have about 40-50k miles before needing another belt. You need the right tools for the job. Everything is detailed here, if not in the OP, in recommendations from others like nfn, rs143, 94, etc. If you have the confidence and mindset of doing the job, yet still have questions, ask away. Otherwise, educating yourself and then going to talk to shops about what exactly you want done / replaced might kill any bullshit and up-pricing. Although a good shop won't bullshit you.
Shops have a lot of overhead and some of those costs go to doing the job. Tools, insurance, etc. A mobile mechanic might charge you 200-300, but a good shop might charge 500-600. It's the cost of doing business. It's sometimes better to pay a little more for the right person to do the job. If you don't have the right tools and place to do it, I'd recommend letting a pro do it.
Thanks alot for the advice.
My own time/space/driveway availability likely points to getting a pro to help.
The big thing is finding a good shop locally that is fair and also skilled/honest.
So looks like I will look for a range of 500-600 dollar amount for labor cost only.
Also for when the 2nd timing belt should be done. I guess I thought it was every 105k or so? I would love to be able to delay/save some money right now but I've also heard people say to just wait for the MID to pop up.
So its ok to wait until about 210k-220k until the 2nd timing belt then?
My own time/space/driveway availability likely points to getting a pro to help.
The big thing is finding a good shop locally that is fair and also skilled/honest.
So looks like I will look for a range of 500-600 dollar amount for labor cost only.
Also for when the 2nd timing belt should be done. I guess I thought it was every 105k or so? I would love to be able to delay/save some money right now but I've also heard people say to just wait for the MID to pop up.
So its ok to wait until about 210k-220k until the 2nd timing belt then?
KCMO.. check with Swoosh (Anil) and Steven Bell (Admin). They should get you to the right folks!
KCMO.. check with Swoosh (Anil) and Steven Bell (Admin). They should get you to the right folks!
Yup. I had anil help me with some initial maintenance items when I first got the car last year (3/4 gear pressure switch, coolant, oil change, ATF, etc.)
and I was lucky enough to also meet Steve as well and saw his beautiful C7 close in person!
I may be getting some parts off of anil's hands though for some more pep in the car.
09-10-2015, 10:24 AM
