Atlas_Gen

I ordered that socket last night so when I get to my timing belt then I'll have to record a video of using a regular 19mm impact socket vs. the 19mm Lisle socket.

nfnsquared

I'd tend to agree. Assuming the gun is decent, it's then all about CFM supply to the gun (7 CFM or more). That guy was probably running a large commercial compressor with a 1/2" hose.

I have the "animal", so I ain't worried about getting that bolt off anymore. My 2nd TB change will be due in a couple of months, so I'll post a video of the 7150 in action

I'll be interested to see how it does with a standard hobbyist compressor set up. (I'm assuming you, like me, probably don't have a commercial rig?)

Atlas_Gen

I've got a commercial one. It's awesome, it makes working on my car a lot easier.

t-rd

I just ordered the same Lisle 77080 socket from Amazon. The problem seems to be losing torque with a regular thin walled 19mm socket flexing and vibrating, not so much with an impact not having enough torque.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHw1WamRJY

Brian also illustrated what's getting the bolt stuck. It's rust that builds up behind the washer piece, it's not the bolt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJTjit9W4oY

nfnsquared

$28.13 here: https://www.pricefalls.com/product/1...honda/58813311

t-rd

I'm about half way through this job by 10pm tonight on my 07 Accord V6, I started at around 7pm. First time doing it myself. I didn't have any problems removing the crank pulley bolt. I sprayed it with pb blaster 3 times within the last week. I used an old Ingersoll electric impact I borrowed + that monstrous 19mm socket from Lisle. It came off in 5 seconds! No extra breaker bar, holding tool, bump method or air tool. I had more trouble with the back bolt of the lower cover than anything else so far. I removed power steering pump and put it out of the way so I have ample space even though I know it's no necessary.

To be continued tomorrow...

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

nice...take your time!

t-rd

Installing the timing belt now, I've marked the teeth and the belt, but I'm not able to get the rear dead on. It is so damn tight, I'm always missing a tooth when I'm able to slip the belt in under the lip. How did you guys do it?

Legend2TL

Only slid the belt onto the teeth a few mm on each pulley and the tensioner. Do not try putting the belt fully into the crank pulley then try to slide the teeth onto the cam pulleys. In needs to be done slowly and gently, it's a tight fit even with the tensioner pressed in with the pin in place.

t-rd

Solved. The water pump needs to be loosely installed, which gave just enough play to get the rear on. This should be in a tips and tricks thing.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I moved rear cam forward enough to get the belt over, then popped back into place prior to tensioner pin pull...

made sure all marks still lined up, obviously.

t-rd

ALL DONE! Car didn't blow up!

For the newbies doing this for the first time, you will completely miss one tooth on the rear cam if you don't mark the old belt and match it on the new belt. Install the water pump loosely with all the 5 bolts threaded in just enough to hold the pump, then route the belt. I did not want to touch the rear cam to mess up the timing. The rear cam did not spring forward either, I had all spark plugs out.

Some other tips:
- There is no need to thread in the battery tie-down prior to taking the belt off, just remove the idler pulley first and the belt comes loose.
- There is no need to thread in the battery tie-down when routing in the new belt. All you have to do is to install the idler pulley, install the hydraulic tensioner, route in the belt, install belt adjuster, then pull the tensioner's pin. This is a tip from Eric Cole at South Main Auto in the video I posted.
- It's not necessary to torque crank pulley bolt to 47 ft-lb then another 60 degree as the service manual says. I did this and it turned out to be just about exactly 181 ft-lb. So just torque it to that. My huge Tekton torque wrench was bending a bit I believe.
- Both the crankshaft seal and cam seals aren't leaking at all after 208000 miles. Changing these are unnecessary. The leak I saw last winter was actually the hydraulic tensioner oil leaking and dripping down then running down the side of the oil pan.
- I started the engine with the drive belt off and all accessories off and the top covers off just to see if everything is right. This is ok to do for a minute.
- The back bolt for the thermostat housing is a pain in the butt. You need to reach it from the front of the engine and stick your left hand through with a 10mm ratcheting wrench to get it off. There is no way to get a torque wrench in there, just make it snug.
- It's not necessary to take the power steering pump off, but I took it off and this made a world of difference. I suggest you take the low pressure side hose off the plastic fitting, because this side does not involve an o-ring, but the high pressure side does. I wrapped ceramic wrap with rubber bands on both the pump side plastic fitting and low pressure hose. This prevents any fluid from coming out. I had to look down from the top so many times to check on things and if the pump was in the way then it would have been difficult to see those almost hidden bolts by the hydraulic tensioner and the back bolt of the lower cover. Plus I didn't have to ding dong on the pump pulley all day long.

I probably spent more time cleaning the floor after the waterfall of coolant spill ran crazy on my garage's floor.

nfnsquared

Hmmmm....I had no issues installing the belt. I didn't mark it and just followed the sequence listed in the SM.

Which service manual is this?

t-rd

I followed the sequence. First could not line up the front cam, had to loosen the idler pulley to line that up. Then could not line up the rear cam, had to loosen the water pump to get that done.

This is the service manual for the 7th gen Accord V6.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Just set up an appointment at a local Honda dealer to replace the TB, WP, and serpentine belt for $499.

nvmaddog

This, mine will be done this Tuesday.

$500 is too cheap for me to waste my time fumbling around and possibly messing this up.

t-rd

I remember I used a 10% off coupon at Honda and it was just over $1000 4 years ago. So it was about a $1200 job at Honda dealer when I took it there. I got a coupon recently from Honda, it is now $875 "summer special". I still can't justify wasting a few hundred dollars.

My cost this time (with $35 Amazon gift certificate to get the Aisin kit) + tools I already have:
Honda OEM Thermostat with rubber gasket: $27.93
Honda OEM Coolant (2 bottles): $28.46
Powerbuilt 20" 1/2" drive extension: $13.70
Brake kleen (2 bottles): $9
Aisin timing belt kit: $159.44

$238.53

I got a Honda OEM crankshaft seal, ended up not using it

nvmaddog

Total parts cost: $325 ebay.com/itm/400360349030?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Labor: $500 through dealer.

For that price, I'm not taking any chances. Now if the labor alone was $1000, things may be a little different.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

And it would be $100 cheaper if they only inspect the water pump. Maybe I could get them to agree to $50 cheaper if I bring my own OEM water pump.

t-rd

This kit you pointed out does not include the coolant + thermostat + thermostat gasket + spark plugs just so you know. Since you are draining all the coolant, might as well get that done. That's about $110. I also changed out the VTEC solenoid gasket 2 weeks prior, that's about $10. Cam and crank seals do not need to be changed. All three of those are bone dry on mine. I'd say that's a 300k service.

Majofo

The water pump should be securely fastened first, especially if it's a pump without the tabs to hold the o-ring / gasket in. The rear cam is difficult to turn and line up, but it does so with decent effort. Key is to take in all the slack at each point before that point and ensure it lines up over the rear cam at TDC, adjusting if necessary (usually).

Majofo

Excellent! I'd be wary about the water pump method you used since almost everyone in here got away without loosening it, but I'm sure it'll be fine. Not sure which manual you are reading but the Acura manual says 181 ft lb torque spec on the crank pulley.

As far as the crank seal.. I had a front main seal leak after another 60k miles and others have reported the same (maybe the minority, but it can occur before 200k). Luckily it's failure is not as common as the rear main seal it seems.

Yeah that damn thermostat bolt is a PITA.

I didn't have an issue with the P/S pump being in the way. For some J3x's, it's required to remove (2nd gen TL, 1G MDX, etc). I think the AV6 J is pretty much the same, but doesn't hurt. Might even be a good excuse to rebuild the pump. Regarding the bolts on the hydraulic tensioner and such, at that point I think I was mostly working off of my back. Sometimes the easiest approach of attack is from the other side. Regardless, good feedback and glad you got it knocked out and back on the road!

Ah.. strange they used the 60 degree spec.

nvmaddog

The thermostat does not need to be replaced unless it is acting up. It is not like it is a big deal to do the thermostat replacement at a later date. It could not be an easier job. The plugs are the same thing, could not be an easier job.

And coolant? Why would a parts kit come with coolant that you can buy literally anywhere? Coolant for a complete drain and refill is under $40, we are not talking about a big expenditure here.

The cam and crank seals are right there, and while doing this job it is never a better time to change them even if it is overkill.

t-rd

I don't have a problem with leak at all. It is the pump from Aisin so it does have the lips to hold the gasket. I fastened the pump then couldn't get the belt on whatsoever even when I pulled the belt HARD. I had to loosen the pump just a smidge with the 2 dowel pins still in the block, then belt went on just fine then I torqued the pump down, all 5 bolts. Maybe it's the super hot weather and metal expanded who knows. Perhaps the regular method works just fine when it's cooler. I wasn't going to turn the rear cam forward a tooth to get the belt on because that throws off the timing on the rear cam.

Majofo

The tstat goes out-of-spec occasionally. There's even a few threads about overheating related to the tstat being locked up / wildly out-of-spec. The main reason, ahead of preventative maintenance, that you replace the tstat is you've already drained the system. Just like you said, you're already in there, half the job is done, why not.

I had a lot of silicate from some point using non-Honda coolant. I even had to replace my rear water control valve because the coolant ate through the plastic valve. I'm not a stickler for it, but the blue stuff is indeed what you should plan to use.

Plugs are relatively easy, but if you don't take your time with them and do it properly, it'll bite you in the ass. The coils seat flush, but need about a quarter turn twist to seat them properly, otherwise they push back. If you force it down by just pushing on top of the coil and securing them with the bolt, you can expect to have a poor connection and misfires. I experienced this with the MDX.

t-rd

This might just be psychological but I've noticed lower engine operating temp in general and the fans don't come as fast after this monster service. The very last time I got this whole service done 4 years ago at Honda, it was still the "green" coolant.

Why would anyone wait until the thermostat malfunction then change it? By then, you probably already overheated with damage to the engine. It's like saying you'll wait until the battery dies while you are in the middle of the street then change it. The whole cooling system is drained to change out the water pump already, so just change out the $28 thermostat. I didn't even have a drop of coolant drip onto the top of the transmission when I opened the thermostat housing, I just had to wipe down inside. Peace of mind for many more years.

nvmaddog

The same thing can be said for the crank seal that you elected not to change, like you said it's peace of mind. That is the point I was making about the kit I purchased.

The crank pulley is already busted loose and it is a $10 seal, it's a no brainier to replace.

I've had thermostats go 200k, and I've had crank seals go 200k.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Any difference in parts between a 3.5L V6 in a Honda Accord and my 08 TL-S? I'm having a Honda dealer do my TB and WP service, and want to ensure that they have the right parts on hand, or that I may need to purchase them myself.

t-rd

Sorry, but a leaky crankshaft seal doesn't damage the engine, a bad thermostat does once the engine overheats and warps the aluminum.

t-rd

A quick simple lookup on rockauto.com turns up the same Aisin TKH002 timing belt kit for 08 TL-S. So it's the same as the 3.0L 07 Accord V6. This is why Honda is so great

nvmaddog

Your whole point of changing out the thermostat was for "peace of mind".

Sorry, but when it comes to changing the thermostat vs changing the crank/cam seals, there is no question which is easier to get to. (If you are not a fan of overheating, you should equally be opposed to oil leaking)

There are plenty of symptoms a thermostat is stuck open (which is more common) or closed (less common) way before you warp aluminum due to excessive heat.

The point is, you bought the thermostat as preventive maintenance which is awesome and definitely great for peace of mind, but somehow trying to discredit replacing those seals while you are "right there" is just silly.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I generally discredit anything I don't decide to do.

nvmaddog

Ha ha, true that

t-rd

So if you know this SO MUCH, why are you taking your car to a dealer to get it done? How about taking it apart and putting it back for 12 hours like I did myself and see it for yourself whether various components need to get changed or not? Do you even know what the techs do in the shops? I stopped trusting shops because of my experience and I choose to do it myself. You are really the silly one.

94eg!

The best part is that it only gets easier form there on out. I recently changed my wife's water pump on her 04 Pilot and it only took 7 hours.

That the 4th time I had broken down the front of a Honda V6.

nvmaddog

It's called resale value due to proof the work is done, it's not rocket science if you are going to try make a few extra bucks on your car. No maintenance job carries more weight to potential car buyers than proof of general oil changes and the timing belt service. (Obviously not trying to dissuade anyone from DIYing of course, just stating the facts.)

The simple fact that it took you 12 hours should tell you a lot about yourself, especially seeing as how you struggled mightily and had to leave the water pump loose in order to get the belt on.

I've done more than my share of trail and error DIY work (I'm not some douche that needs to list my credentials for you either), $500 bucks in labor is nothing for a job like this to be done right and have it on record, it's called "common sense" for a reason.

Nice pic of your "dry" seal by the way as well. No pic of your thermostat in boiling water showing it working properly?

No need to be arrogant, I agreed with your "peace of mind" regarding the thermostat, but you should have just admitted it was probably in your best interest to replace those seals as well and called it a day.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I feel like you guys have peni (plural) that are exactly the same length and maybe girth even. I'll have Majofo confirm, but I bet I'm right.

nfnsquared

^^^TMI... and I don't want to know how Majofo would know

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

YES you do!

Majofo

I know all peni length on Acurazine.. fyi.