ct3

I recently got my wife's Lexus GS400 hand-me-down car when she got something new, and after having driven a 4X4 Expedition for the last 5 years, all I can say is that I'm in heaven. Also, just a few weeks ago, I sold my '98 NSX, due to that fact that I never really had time to drive it. I loved it, but it was too much capital tied up in something that I almost never used.

So coming from and Acura background (Parents, sister, inlaws, etc all own them also) I've had my eye on the '04 TL since I heard they were coming out. I drove one yesterday, and liked it so much I almost bought one, but decided I should do a little research first (plus they don't have the Black Navi I want). Here is my question (Yes, I know, Finally!)... The GS400 is by no means a bad car. Navigation, 300 HP, quiet, confortable. However it's got 90,000 miles on it, so it's getting older. Do I punt the Lexus (which is paid for) for the new TL? Has anybody out there owned a GS400, and now owns a TL, and can give me more of a feel what the differences are between the two.

Thanks

Twenties

How does the feeling/rush of power/torque of TL compare to GS4?

EluSiOn

wait for 05 RL.... it loos like a camry in AWD

ct3

Felt not quite at urgent. Definitely not as much torque, which is expected due to the fact that it's a V6 vs. V8. However, it did feel pretty linear, almost smoother. I know the GS400 will do 0-60 in 6 seconds, so an AT TL would not be much behind it, and as much as gas is now, it would be nice to sqeeze the extra 8-10 MGP out of it.

fast-tl

Gotta tell ya, I cars these days are nowhere near "won out" at 90k miles. Add to that the fact that it's paid for, rear wheel drive with plenty of "go" on tap, and I'd keep that $30k+ in my pocket. You have Navigation already, plus plenty of interior room, and you're talking about capital preservation. Drive the perfectly usable Lexus. Do what those with less patience than I have done: drive the Lexus while each month saving the amount of the TL payment (or more) each month and then buy it for cash! Then you'd have a) both cars and b) 100% equity in both.

Norse396

Stick with the GS400, it's paid for, conversely once a car gets over 100K it's harder to sell although I'm not sure if it holds true with Lexus.

Good luck, I wish I had that decision to make.

flnsx

Welcome to a fellow NSX owner!

fla-tls

I'd keep the Lexus until it starts turning into a money pit (repairs). You have a lot of mileage left in that car.

ct3

One small caveot I forgot to mention. The Lexus is due for a 90k mile service. Timing chain replacement, which requires pretty much taking off the entire front of the engine, replacing the water pump, etc etc etc. $1600 in all. Is it wise to dump that much money into a car that is only worth around @ $14,000? If you can't tell, I'm doing my best to talk myself out of the right decision, so I can get the TL!!!

Norse396

Ouch, good point, kind of if it ain't broke don't fix it, but it's required at 90k. If they do take it apart will things start to go wrong creating more repairs... Tough decision and expensive to boot, still cheaper than a new car though and Lexus service is excellent, flip a coin!

ct3

Exactly my point. Last year one of the Xenon headlights went out. They have an 'active' leveling system in them, and it was $400 to have it repaired. 3 months later, the other one gives out. Another $400. Want to update the navigation hard drive, that'll be $650. And God forbid that something major in the engine craps out. I'd have to skip a house payment!! I know that keeping it would be cheaper, but if I have to start dumping an average of $250 a month into it, why not pay another $150 a month and have a brand new TL. Ahhhhhhhhh, decisions decisions. I guess on a good note, if making this decision was as tough as life got (and trust me, that is wishful thinking), we would all be A-Okay!

Twenties

If it looks like its going to get too expensive to maintain it, dump it, don't second guess yourself. I got 145,000 miles out of my Legend though (it was under warranty through 100k) before i got scared and flipped it for $10,000. Up to that point i had very little out of pocket for repairs and service was relatively cheap.

NOX 3.2

if your numbers jibe get the TL. It's better to have a fixed monthly payment (and everything else covered under warranty) than risking expensive repairs that are very uncertain... you'll sleep better...
that's what I did. you can use that peace of mind to figure out how to make more money "smarter" not harder.
I already have 2 patents on inventions, and 3 more on the way!
each patent last about 20 years, which is plenty of time to come up with more ideas...

fla-tls

Yeah - this was the "money pit" issue I raised before...

Once you start paying, it never gets better.

ct3

So I've almost talked my self into the wrong decision, and went to see the dealer over the weekend. Does this sound like a decent deal? '04 Black/Parchment Navi 5AT for $1500 off MSRP. Just don't want to screw myself. Said it should be delivered in 1 month. Shouldn't they be able to find that same car somewhere and get it for me? ! month sounds like a really long time!

BlackSunshine

Chant this: Sell, sell, sell. Warranty, warranty, warranty. New, new, new.

This ought to get bring the spirits of change to front.

ct3

I can feel the winds of change swirling already!!

claud

I owned a 2000 GS 400 for 2 years. The TL with auto felt more nailed to the road than the stock GS 400. GS felt somewhat sloppy, but rode nice. I put Bilsteins and Pilot A/S on the GS 400, and it felt better, about like a TL. My test drive in the auto TL reminded me of the modded GS. The Acura steering is more acurate . My SSM auto w/navi should be built by now. What is a month's wait while driving a GS400. I'm enjoying my 04 TSX 6spd while I wait. $1500 off MSRP is good deal.

1SICKLEX

I'd save the $$$$ and if need be, mod the GS. You can get the NAV updates at the dealer for the latest maps Lexus offers. Every car needs a 90k service so that is expected, no biggie.

Just check out www.clublexus.com to see the unlimited mod potential of the GS.

TL_2004_CA

you KNOW you want the TL..just get it =P..you will be happier when you sleep at night!

brahtw8

Me too! :toothless

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

By all means, keep the GS400! 90,000 miles on a Lexus is NOTHING to the engine, hardly anything on the tranny (so long as it's been serviced properly).

This is coming from someone who has driven a '99 GS400 extensively, and put 100,000 miles of my own on a Lexus ES300. I know that around 90,000 the front end is gunna start needing some work: front axle bearings, shocks, alignment, possible steering control arms ~$1000-2000. You're due for a timing belt replacement soon, about $300.00, and the 100k service alone is $300 w/o the cost of the timing belt. The rear-diff will be serviced in this 100k service visit, so no worries. The A/C may need to be tended to, ~$200.00.

Keep the GS400, wait for another year or so if you can and at bare minimum, if you decide to buy the TL, you'll get into a 2005 w/ many glitches revised/fixed, and you'll have the possibility of getting into an RL if you are interested in this.

Oh and btw .. the TL doesn't have that nice torque V8 thrust that the GS400 will have even w/ 2 or 3 people in the car.

Best of luck.

bollywood21

I would keep the GS. Its a Lexus, you will give up on the car before it gives up on you. Although money doesn't really seem to be an issue for you if you had a 98 NSX.

Either way you cant go wrong!!!!

partagas

Having owned 2 GSes, a 400 and a 430, I can speak to the issue directly. The TL has way better seats. The TL is much quieter (road noise). The TL corners better, less understeer. The TL corners flatter. The TL has better and quieter steering. The GS has a weird steering rack problem which wears out tires quickly and the become noisy quickly. The TL gets worlds better gas mileage. The GS has that lovely V8 thrust. However, I am quite sure that my 6sp TL is quicker than my auto GSes were. If they were the same money and I knew no history and I were to choose from a driver's perspective, I would choose the $35K TL over the $55K GS430. I just did only was $20K to the good.

acuraddict

Life is short, drive a car that you fully enjoy. If this is not that important to you, don't do it. But, if you want it and will enjoy it, and can afford it, just do it and start having more fulfillment now.

Brock_Landers

No offense but you had a lemon of a GS then. I guess the TL is faster than a GS. My apologies. GS is one of the quietest cars I have ever been in. We are comparing a 20K+ more car here now though. For 20K more it should be.

Motoracer

I'm shopping for TL, after my '99 GS300 aqualplaned traveling straight ahead under the posted 55 mph limit. It hit the guardrail twice (not hard enough to pop air bag) and was totaled.

After 2 test drives my impression is that the TL seats are better than GS, but the cabin is noisier and feels less refined. The TL is obviously quicker, more efficient, and feels better planted than the GS. Still, as a daily driver the GS is a more relaxing environment. The GS was terrible in snow with the OEM all season tires. I'm probably going to buy a TL, but I'll miss the Lexus and I have lots of concerns about quality in the TL. After 5 years the GS was still totally tight and the only repairs it needed was new brake rotors which I also had to do with my Dodge Caravan, my Saturn, and both of my previous Honda CRXs.

I was planning to keep my GS forever, and I recommend hanging on to yours for a bit longer. The TL will still be there, and may be slightly improved in a year or two.

VQ35DE

Here's my take: if I were looking to buy either a used GS400/430 or new TL, I'd go with the TL. However, if I already had a GS4 I'd stay with it unless I was having trouble with it (doubtfully).

The GS4 with Navi is NOT that common. Though the GS4 is nowhere near as sporty as the new TL, it has more than enough straightline muscle needed for highway blasts, its good for mid 14s (98mph traps) and tops out at a governed 155mph. Yet, the interior feels like an leather living room set, of the highest quality so you're never out of touch with the Lexus luxury.

IMO, trading it for the TL is to downgrade slightly. A well maintained Lexus could pretty much last well past the 200k mark, as they're engineered/built that good. (If I'm not mistaken, I believe the 2004 model makes the GS in its 7th model year. )

$.02

BTW: I'd hope that you have the 17" wheel package versus the stock 16".

brahtw8

The next-gen GS is already making the rounds on the auto show circuit. I believe it will be a 2006 model, but perhaps it is a 2005. It looks quite a bit like the TL and the E60 5-series.

ct3

Partagas- That is exactly what I was wondering. I spent a sum total of 25 minutes in the TL, and though I thought it seemed quieter, almost as fast, and more pinned to the road, it could have just been my inner (or outter) child skewing my thought process just because it looks 'cool' !! Also agreed...the steering is too heavy and really loud, the brakes make that annoying antilock sound everytime you touch them, and the throttle tip in is very inaccuate. Anyway, thank you for the advice.

acuraddict- Right on, some seriously good thinking!! Screw it, you only live once. If you can afford it, and it's not redicilous (we're not talking about a G-V here), why not do it.

Look out folks, I'm getting a TL!!!

TLDan

It all boils down to what you truly want and what you truly have to spend. I also like the 04' TL. However, the 2002 TL Type S I had was a love/hate relationship ( great ride, but with great rattles). Last year I traded it for a Lexus GS 300 SportsDesign (a great car). My brother owns a 99' GS 400 and with 70K miles and it looks and drives like a new car. His previous car was a MB, but he loves his GS 400. My recommendation is to keep the GS. At a minimum, some of the first year production problems should be fixed in the TL. Also, there are a number of exciting cars with technology similar to the TL to be introduced within the next year. I will be looking to move to either the new Lexus GS or Acura RL, but I am not discounting the TL for model year 2005. Good luck!

Twenties

If you get the TL, i agree, i'd wait until October for the 05 de-bugged version.

ct3

Well now that I have had my new TL for a couple of weeks, thought I would give a brief review on how it compares to the GS400.

Interior- No comparison at all. The TL kicks the GS400's butt all over the place. The TL's seats are far superior. The TL's instrument cluster is much clearer. The TL is much quieter, and is much more roomy, which important. Being 6'2", 210, the Lexus started to feel a little clausterphobic at times.

Suspension- Again, the TL wins. The TL provides much more feedback at the wheel, yet has a smoother and more controlled ride. And by the way, can we stop bitching about the torque steer? Unless you have granny arms, it's not like it's going to rip the wheel out of your hands. Suck it up, be a big boy, and move on!

Power- The GS400 is the winner here, but only because of it's raw power advantage. The GS400 will easily out accelerate the TL. However, when it comes to power delivery, the TL has the advantage. Much more linear on the pick up, and a much smoother tip in.

Navi- TL wins hands down, no question. It's like the difference between a Commadore 64 and a new Pentium machine running a CAD program. Sure they both can do it, but one does it much better, faster, and is more enjoyable to look at.

Other- Add in the voice recognition, BlueTooth abilities, the bad-ass styling, XM Satellite, DVD-A, etc etc etc, and we have a clear winner. Oh, and I'll sell my '98 GS400 with 95,000 miles for a minimum of 15k, so my net cost is 20 grand???? Oh wait, I guess I was wrong, I win in this one!

If your on the fence about getting one, giddy up. It's worth it!

2004MT6TL

Wait, what year is the GS400? If it is the new body style, keep it!

brahtw8

The current body style is the only body style of GS400 in the US. It has received minor freshening over the years, but is fundamentally the same as it was when it was introduced in 1998 or so.

The original GS was available as a GS300 only.

Brock_Landers

Sorry but the new GS430 is way better than a TL and it should be for 20,000 more. Interior is better plus it has an updated NAV which is faster than previous versions. Lexus also has the best leather on the market.

dseag2

CT3- Glad you decided to take the plunge and go with the TL. To help further your buying decision, I just traded an '03 GS300 Sportdesign for my new TL. The GS is a GREAT car, but I have no buyer's remorse at all. Don't need to give you all the reasons... you already found them out.

Monte TLS,MAX

No doubt will keep the GS400 over the TL, my father has had his since 2000 and it still turns heads an dthe quality is great. Most of us dont drive like in the "twisties" this is the good ol US of A and we mainly care about straight line and the GS400 wins that with ease vs a Auto TL. A manual TL will be closer but the GS still will edge it out, to get times like the GS4 you have to be a very good manual driver and face it most of us cant get times like the pros. Keep the GS4!

thegre8tone

Keep the GS, wait and see the new models coming out next year...Check out the new RL and Infiniti M45, if you don't like either you can always get a TL then...