Yeah.. I'll give this a try, but won't be able to test it until I get the unit. Is the FP software free to download? Do I need the FP plugged in to start looking at and creating maps?

 

yeah it's free / no you don't need to plug it in.

 

Let's not forget that flashpro manager v1.9.5 is still under beta release and that includes flashpro support for the 11-14 tsx.

 

Thanks iCrap, and agreed iselfdevi. Being beta, I suppose things could end up changing and CT-E/Hondata might even come back and say that the old maps are usable with the next non-beta release of FP Man. I'm doubting this though. The beta is probably just in place to allow us to try the thing out on our 11-14 TSXs, and report bugs back to them if there are any.

Since I use a macbook I'm gonna need to bootcamp or run Windows as a VM. I'll try and do this today after work. Hopefully I can start playing with the maps in a few days.

 

I SAW THAT ICRAP!

lol macbook.

 

I dunno what you are talking about

 

I posted differences in the maps, but didn't go in depth. Just be mindful of what you are doing.

 

Also XTC... try not to get overwhelmed with the amount of information in the FP manager. Im just now starting to understand how everything works. It can be a little intimidating when you first look at it.

 

they have lots of good documentation also which is worth a read

 

Almost a necessity if you really want to understand what is going on, and what your calibration is telling your car to do. I hope I can streamline off of VIT when he tunes my car so I can learn what he does, and what he looks for to change.

 

Quote taken from the CTE 11+ thread to keep the relevant info where it belongs
Thanks Joe! I guess my first question would be, what's a "good" AFR? I obviously have no idea at this point. Are the values in the lambda overlay table static, or do I need to flash my ECU and plug the FP in to dynamically see them? Would the Hondata docs describe what to look for?

Sorry butt load of questions. I'll try to get to the Hondata documentation soon. Work + commutes to/from work pretty much take up my entire day

 

14.7 :1 is the stoich ratio for Air to Fuel. For naturally aspirated vehicles this should be your target, especially if you're not familiar with tuning.

Lambda overlay basically shows you the delta of your target AFR and what you are ACTUALLY running. The static/ dynamic question is a little harder to answer. You flash your ECU with the Calibration and then datalog, your datalog can show you how far off you are from your target.

It's dynamic in the fact that under different loads (throttle, gear, rpm, speed) there is a different target.So 3rd gear 3000 rpm @ 50% throttle and 45mph could have a different target AFR than 3rd gear 3000 rpm @ 100% throttle. So the target changes as you drive.

It's Static in the fact that each situation has a specific table that can be edited for target AFR. And this is where your lambda overlay comes in... It takes feedback from the system and says "Hey this is what I am telling you to do, and this is what I am ACTUALLY doing." (Side note- this is also how Honda's "learn" your driving style, when the battery is reset, it datalogs all your situations and uses the calculations to determine closed loop operation.)

Hope this all makes sense... and yeah there is info on most of this stuff on Hondata.

 

Makes a lot of sense, thanks! This along with wikipedia for AFR helped clear this up. Ideally, lambda = 1.

So does that mean I can set different values for different throttle percentages at different RPMs? Seems like A LOT of numbers to play with to get it right.

 

You got it

Yup, it's a ton of things to watch at the same time. And you gotta take into account (at least for manual) sometimes your lambda overlay will deceive you. It gives you an average change % but sometimes when you shift or you push in the clutch you get high (false) AFR for the table you are in, but you gotta realize the system can't comprehend and you gotta make judgement.

Don't forget things like knock retard, ignition timing, VTEC, and other things haha. It's A LOTTT LOTTA data lol

 

And thats why u pay VIT to tune ur car if u dont wanna shoot a rod through ur hood lol j.k

OH BTW
2nd to last tune.

 

How's this tune feel compared to the last one you've posted Dime Feng? You've come a long way with Vit. Congrats you're almost there!

 

I started looking at the differences between the 09-10 stock equiv and the 11-14 stock equiv maps (not just via the Comparison window). I noticed that the 11-14 map is missing the AFM Enabled checkbox under the Fuel tab. Does this mean it cannot be disabled? Not that it really matters for me because I only have a simple bolt on (RV6 PCD), but this might be a road block for someone who wants a FI tune.

From the Help manual.
Side question: Does your maintenance minder (MM) still function after flashing your current calibration?

 

Also noticed the Injector (ms) values in the AFM Fuel table are different between 09-10 and 11-14 for Air Mass (mg) >= 1000 mg. Can someone explain what this means?

09-10 stock equiv


11-14 stock equiv

also note the missing AFM Enabled checkbox

 

All I can say is it pulls harder.

 

I can honestly say I have done no research on this.. Im shooting completely in the dark, but maybe check to see if the injectors between 09-10 are the exact same part number as 11+. If they are not it may explain why they have different pulse rate at higher Air Mass.

Or the entire car was mapped differently to get better mpg on 11+ and this affects injector duty cycle?? Not really sure man, that's my best guess

 

As per Hondata on their forums about this table,
I'm guessing the keyword here is duration.

He also goes on to say,
This would be an odd statement if it turns out that the 11-14 stock injectors are the same as the 09-10 ones.

 

I did a search on Delray Acura for "injector" for 2009 TSX TECH and 2013 TSX TECH

2009 results:
Acura Parts @ AcuraOEMparts.com - Genuine Acura OEM Parts from Delray Acura

2013 results:
Acura Parts @ AcuraOEMparts.com - Genuine Acura OEM Parts from Delray Acura

All same part numbers, EXCEPT the 2013 has an additional part, 16450-R40-A01 INJECTOR ASSY., FUEL. Problem is, both 2009 and 2013 have another INJECTOR ASSY., FUEL part, 16450-R40-Y01.

I did a quick search on the *-A01 injector fuel assembly, and it seems to be a part from the CR-V, or specifically, usually paired with K24Z6 engines. The *-Y01 usually paired with our K24Z3.

I don't think there's a difference really. I looked on eBay and there are listings that have BOTH part numbers for the same part, as if they're interchangeable. Maybe they're the same, but the *-A01 is an updated part, but likely with the same output cc.

edit:
my bad if I'm somewhat polluting the thread... imo it somewhat relates to decoding this flashpro business

 

Did the issue with HeelToe ever get resolved? I see they haven't posted here.

Marcus did send me an IM that clearly proves how they have no clue about running a customer friendly business. It was rude and insulting - just like any other HT post when anyone questions them.

 

ceb, I've sent the unit back to the drop shipper and put my return address on it for them to send the correct unit back to me. HeelToe/Marcus will be reimbursing all shipping fees I encounter (including incoming, in the case the drop shipper decides to bill me the return shipping).

 

lol screenshot please?

 

Smh... I can relate to both sides. being a retail sales business owner I can understand Marcus wanting to keep things kosher until the problem is resolved internally (in heeltoeauto defense I ordered my skunk2 header from them and everything went smooth as ky), especially if effort is being made to resolve things, and CEB has a special mutant power in pushing buttons. But at the same token I always use negative or previous experiences and conflicts with customers of my biz as a learning experience to better avoid situations similar and practice better biz in the future as ceb did mention, but just bcuz you got into a pissing match with Marcus doesn't mean he's a bad retailer either ceb. You just enjoy arguing too much.

 

So back on my little side topic here....

I noticed that the 09-10 speed density map have the same AFM fuel values as the 11-14 stock map, all across the board. No screenshot posted... the values are identical (i.e., differ from 09-10 stock map at >= 1000 mg Air Mass).

So if the 09-10 can handle both sets of values, I can't see why the 11-14 can't either. I'll likely try copying Dime Feng's latest calibration over to a 11-14 template and give that a try when the unit comes in.

 

Just to add to that last bit of side topic. I know... it's boring and you likely all don't give an iCrap lol. But I figured it's better that I post this than not, in case someone else runs into the same set of questions I've had.

Anyway, I asked the same questions on the Hondata board here.

Answers:
Hope this helps.

 

Found a new difference between the 09-10 stock equiv. map and the 11-14 stock equiv. map: the RPM indices in the Ignition High tables.

09-10:


11-14:

(differences highlighted in yellow)

The values themselves by default are all the same, but the indices are not. I'm not sure if this is a bug in the 11-14 maps, or whether this is intended. If you right click on an RPM index on the left, you could Edit/Insert/Delete the RPM Index.

I've asked this question in the Hondata forums in the same thread I created earlier about AFM Enabled, and the AFM Fuel table differences, here. I'll update the thread when I hear back.

 

Thanks for updating us!

 

I'm not sure what he means by this. Why can't we edit it? Makes it unclear what the bug actually is. I asked whether I could delete all the indices and re-add them all back in to reflect the 09-10 map.

 

sounds like the bug in the software is that indexes are set to the wrong fields so it'll edit the wrong point? That's what it looks like to me.

 

Man I suspect my FP will be coming in sometime this week or so. But I also don't want to take any chances and simply change the Ignition High values to the same ones from Dime Feng's map if the indices aren't even correctly corresponding to the values. I'm not sure how long Hondata will take to release a new version, but I suspect the 11-14 TSX is super low on their priority list.

 

Yeah if they indexes are all wrong then I wouldn't change it just yet. It's weird that they would release the software with a huge bug like that... that could probably fuck some shit up.

 

I honestly think you will enjoy the flash that Hondata has provided and by the time you start itching to get more out of your calibration Hondata will fix that bug and youll be ready to go!

Plus you always are more meticulous about studying things when all you can do is sit back idly. You'll better understand the system as whole and when they release the update you'll be a FP guru haha

 

lol this is true. I'm actually in that boat right now, but rather than waiting on Hondata for an update, I'm waiting for the unit hahah. But you are right, I am definitely learning about the various nuances and technicalities in ECU tuning via Flashpro that I otherwise probably wouldn't know much about if I just simply uploaded a map and forgot about it.

Should I be skeptical of the base map though, considering how either way it will still have the bug? I'm not sure how much real-world testing they've done with it (I'm going to assume zero since I doubt they have a TSX), but I'm still a bit worried even with the provided map.

edit:
I suppose the worst that could happen is knock-city? I should probably datalog with the base map and see what I get, and just return it to actual stock if I see anything concerning.

 

You should just load up the basemap and log with that, see if it knocks. And wait for the next beta update where they should fix that bug...


wait whut? the flash Hondata gives you does pretty much nothing aside from raise the rev limiter.

 

whoa whoa whoa.... from the guy who claims that Hondata eliminates rev hang!!!! You should totally agree with that statement lmao

Base map isn't like chipping a BMW or anything like that.. but you can expect:
1. rev hang eliminated (I cannot claim this but I seem to be the only one who never noticed it.)
2. Raised Rev limiter
3. Raised Red line Recover
4. Lowered VTEC
5. Launch RPM Control
6. Launch Recover RPM control

I'd say that's pretty decent

And also my car accelerated more smoothly during part throttle...

 

ahhh yeah you're right. and yea it's quite a bit smoother as well.
But not faster though!

 

:gheylaugh: