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Car Misfire/Stalling/No Start - HELP

Old 04-16-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Don't think there is a 35 sec gas pedal reset on these cars although I may be wrong. I do know that pulling the clock/backup fuse on the passenger side will reset it though.
DITO: Never heard of the accelorator method. Wondering where Domenic may have found it. Also curious about the current status of the issue. Very interesting problem. Although, I don't think it's wise to leave a car idling for extended periods of time, It shouldn't really cause a problem, unless one of the engine control systems is not up to speed!
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:29 AM
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Hi Frank, thanks for your reply.

I once reset the ECM by following the instructions via the following Youtube video:
Maybe it was not smart to listen to the person posting the video, but I tried it before and it worked. This time, no dice.

I agree - not a good idea to let the car idle for 30 minutes or so but as you said, it should NOT make the engine miss/shake/knock/putter the way it does. Not to mention the start problems and misfire during driving issues following that situation.

Update:
1. The Purge Valve (under hood) is set to arrive tomorrow. I will replace.
2. Spoke to Acura this morning: They said that after I installed the Fuel Pressure Regulator and New Spark Plugs, I was supposed to do a "idle relearn". They told me to pull the batter terminals, hold them together for 15 minutes, then connect battery terminals and start car. They then said to let car idle until the cooling fan comes on 2x, then turn car off, then drive. This sounds like a waste but I will do what they said. They said their next step is to look at the ECM, which I am starting to think more and more is the problem. I mean...I literally have tried everything else! Unless the engine itself is bad.....but that doesn't make sense to me due to the problem being intermittent. Although the last few weeks, I have noticed that there are times after I start the car and drive down the street, it will have a "miss" or it will feel like even though I hit the gas pedal, nothing was happening. It seems a bit "off" since the Fuel Pressure Regulator job.

VERY FRUSTRATING!


Thanks. I will keep you posted and look forward to any future replies.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:53 PM
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I too have this problem. My vin also is one affected. Dealer said the ecu has to be flashed with the update so its not something you can buy and install but the flash is needed for the updated fpr. The parameters change for the higher fpr. I found a way around it for now. Ill turn key to on position but wont crank. Let it sit there for 10 secs and turn key off and let sit for 10 secs and ill repeat that process about 10x’s and it usually starts right up. It basically primes the system of the vaporlock. Now i might be wrong with some technicallities but thats what works for me.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:00 PM
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Interesting.

I wonder if flashing the system is the same as having the Acura dealer "reset the ECM". Not sure how a flash of the ECM is handled.
So you are saying a replacement ECM isn't needed, but instead it needs to be "reflashed" to sync with the new FPR?
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:04 PM
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Dominec, you have a second generation TL. The video above, from what I can ascertain, shows how to reset the ECM for a third + generation TL.

You can reset the ECU as Iggy posted above by pulling the clock fuse; however, you will still have to perform the idle relearn procedure as the Acura people told you (making sure all electrics are OFF). I usually wait three fan cycles. In addition, if you don't want to pull the clock fuse, then ONLY disconnect the negative battery cable and wait about a minute (or more, if it makes you feel better) before reattaching, then perform the 'idle relearn'. The biggest reason for pulling the 'clock fuse' is that it is easier and you don't have to reenter the radio code to get it to work again.

Last edited by zeta; 04-17-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:34 PM
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Thank you, Zeta.

So to confirm, you are saying I need to first reset the ECM per the instructions of Iggy, THEN do the idle relearn per instructions of Acura? Do you feel this will solve me crazy problem? I hope so
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:37 PM
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Question: For both the ECU Reset (via fuse pull) and Idle Relearn (via battery connector method), does the ignition get left in OFF position, or Position 2 or Position 3 (on)?
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:49 PM
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Domenic Ricci View Post
Thank you, Zeta.

So to confirm, you are saying I need to first reset the ECM per the instructions of Iggy, THEN do the idle relearn per instructions of Acura? Do you feel this will solve me crazy problem? I hope so


Iggy beat me to the punch, well done!

Unfortunately no, sorry. However, when disconnecting power from the cars 'brain system' you need to follow the idle learn function to get it back to a point, hopefully, of running smoothly to proceed with any further diagnosis. Refer to the attachment to see all of the 'reasons' why one has to perform the idle learn procedure. Also, if you want to follow the ideal learn steps on the attachment, it should give you the same result. I understand that all of this may be confusing. I usually do the 'fan cycle' idle learn procedure because that's how I learned it when I had my '99 Honda SI, and perform it to this day on my second generation CLS 6-speed, it works.

Ignition must be OFF before disconnecting battery or pulling the clock fuse.

Good Luck!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
IdleLearn.pdf (472.7 KB, 9 views)

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Old 04-17-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Domenic Ricci View Post
Interesting.

I wonder if flashing the system is the same as having the Acura dealer "reset the ECM". Not sure how a flash of the ECM is handled.
So you are saying a replacement ECM isn't needed, but instead it needs to be "reflashed" to sync with the new FPR?

the way it was explained to me was that “flashing” wasnt resetting more like reprogramming.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:11 PM
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Thanks, I will give the following a try: Pull Clock Fuse. Perform Idle Relearn per instructions of Acura Service Center. Acura said after I pull the cables and hold them together for 15 minutes, to put the connectors back and start the car and let it run until the fan comes on and off twice. Although it looks like they didnt mention the steps detailed above regarding holding RPM at 3K, etc. Confusing for me....but I will give it a try.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nj00tl View Post
I too have this problem. My vin also is one affected. Dealer said the ecu has to be flashed with the update so its not something you can buy and install but the flash is needed for the updated fpr. The parameters change for the higher fpr. I found a way around it for now. Ill turn key to on position but wont crank. Let it sit there for 10 secs and turn key off and let sit for 10 secs and ill repeat that process about 10x’s and it usually starts right up. It basically primes the system of the vaporlock. Now i might be wrong with some technicallities but thats what works for me.
I am going to go to my mechanic tomorrow. He said he is going to reset ECM and do idle relearn. Says something about his fancy computer/device will do the relearn. He will also do the Evap Purge Valve. I rather have him give this a shot. Wish me luck.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Domenic Ricci View Post
Thanks, I will give the following a try: Pull Clock Fuse. Perform Idle Relearn per instructions of Acura Service Center. Acura said after I pull the cables and hold them together for 15 minutes, to put the connectors back and start the car and let it run until the fan comes on and off twice. Although it looks like they didnt mention the steps detailed above regarding holding RPM at 3K, etc. Confusing for me....but I will give it a try.
Fuse Method:
1-Ignition off
2-Pull clock fuse (wait a few minutes)
3-Insert clock fuse
4-All electrics OFF AC/radio/lights
5-Start car, if possible don't rev the engine, hopefully it starts and idles on its own
6-Let it sit and idle for two-three fan cycles (important)

For battery disconnect/reconnect method, just replace with steps 2 & 3 above.

Attachment method:
Pull/reinsert clock fuse OR disconnect/reconnect battery
Follow the steps on the attachment.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Domenic Ricci View Post
Seems like you are saying I should look for a TLP 2001 ECM! HA!!
Them idiots at Acura may not install the part that I bring to them. They once told me they only install their parts. Who the hell knows. But yeah....I will do what you mentioned.
I am starting to lean towards ECM problem as this situation has been going on for over a year. And there are many times where the car will run GREAT and PERFECT. If it had 3 bad injectors, it would NEVER run that well. In my opinion.
Sounds like I may be wasting my time tomorrow getting injectors done, so maybe I should get my money back. Idk. Either way, getting timing belt done tomorrow. I have no idea if the current belt is original or when it was changed last.
It is on off problem. ECM would be On problem all times. Try to clean connectors to ECU and than put dielectric grease in connection. I read somewhere that on off problems are usually sign of electrical problems. As someone notice above check ground too. Before all just go through connectors, clean it with spray and pack with dielectric grease. It is free and not much of time.

Last edited by bbsitum; 04-18-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bbsitum View Post
It is on off problem. ECM would be On problem all times. Try to clean connectors to ECU and than put dielectric grease in connection. I read somewhere that on off problems are usually sign of electrical problems. As someone notice above check ground too. Before all just go through connectors, clean it with spray and pack with dielectric grease. It is free and not much of time.
Not necessarily. If the ECU isn't calibrated for the newer FPR then the same intermittent vapor lock issues will still happen. Would they not?
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Not necessarily. If the ECU isn't calibrated for the newer FPR then the same intermittent vapor lock issues will still happen. Would they not?
thats pretty much what i was told and researched.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:41 PM
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Thanks guys.

While I guess you may be able to classify this as an intermiddent problem because it runs well, then screws up.........The fact is right now, it screws up every time it sits in idle in park for 20-40. That is a constant right now....that keeps happening. Vapor Lock?

So yeah, tomorrow (I was supposed to go today but Evap part hasn't arrived yet) I will have Evap part replaced, clean ECU connections (why not), and have mechanic reset ECU and do Idle Re-learn (supposedly mechanic says he can do all this on a machine). IF that does NOT work, then I am going to order a junkyard ECM and have Acura program it. If that does NOT work, then I will probably throw a toaster in the bathtub while I am bathing.

Thanks again guys! Appreciate your help and comments. I really do.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:12 PM
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Guys, take a view at this video on Youtube.
I am not saying I agree with the video (because I already did the coolant temp sensor and that didnt work), I am copying this link so that you view the COMMENTS section. Some interesting discussion...seems like I am not the only one with the issue.

Also, as I went through my memory today: The only thing that ever seemed to fix this, when I had the issue about 12-18 months ago, was when I replaced the Main Relay (under dash, left side of brake pedal area). Just saying....maybe that went again or maybe there is a short somewhere?

Thanks!!!
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:20 PM
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Just for shits and giggles have you ever checked compression when its hot?
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:39 PM
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Also when was the last time the valves were adjusted. Ive read in a manual before that acura reccommended a valve adjustment like every 3 yrs or 30k. Definitely dont quote me on the mileage but i distinctly remember 3 yrs.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nj00tl View Post
Also when was the last time the valves were adjusted. Ive read in a manual before that acura reccommended a valve adjustment like every 3 yrs or 30k. Definitely dont quote me on the mileage but i distinctly remember 3 yrs.
Interested in knowing in which specific manual, you found your information. Seems to me, a valve adjustment every 3 years, or 30K, is an unusual maintenance recommendation. Perhaps, if you had an old school engine, equipped with solid lifters, than maybe. The manual for my 2003 TLS, recommends a valve adjustment (" ONLY IF NOISY") at 105K or 84 months. I inspected mine at 200K, when I did the 200K service, and found all intake valves, within spec., and three exhaust valves, slightly out of spec., on the tight side. Since I acquired my car with 196K, I have no idea if the valve lash had ever been adjusted, prior to my ownership.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:53 AM
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I have not performed the compression test at all.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:55 AM
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I have 175k miles on the car, purchased with 150k. I have not done a valve adjustment and have no way of knowing if the previous owner did either.
Once I fix this problem (IF), I have the timing belt kit and was going to have that handled and also have the valves adjusted (and valve cover gasket since I have a little leak).
I asked Acura and my mechanic on their thoughts regarding the valve adjustment, and they said they do not believe it is needed due to how quiet the engine is (when its running right). The engine is VERY quiet and the only small chatter I hear at times may be a belt tensioner/one of the pulleys, but again, it is very small and very minimal.

Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:08 AM
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LATEST UPDATE

Yesterday: Replaced EVAP Purge Valve (under hood).
Reset ECM (I assumed it worked since my radio needed me to input the code again) and Relearned the Idle (followed the methods described above and by Acura).

Results: Following Relearn:
YESTERDAY
1. Drove car around for 10 miles, no issues.
2. One hot restart immediately after I turned car off, no issues.
3. Another hot restart 10 minutes after that, no issues.
4. Another hot restart 20 minutes after that, no issues.
5. Let car idle for 40 minutes, no issues.
6. Drove car again for 10 miles, no issues.
7. Three hot restarts (immediately, 10 minute, 20 minute like above), no issues.
8. Let car idle for 40 minutes, no issues.
9 Engine is very quiet and runs very smooth. Strong.
TODAY
1. Let car idle for 40 minutes, no issues.
2. Three hot restarts (immediately, 10 minute, 20 minute like above), no issues.
3. Drove car for 2 miles, no issues.
4. Engine is very quiet and runs very smooth. Strong.

I am cautiously optimistic at this point.

Note: Yesterday, when it was idling for 40 minutes, it seemed like it "wanted to start crapping out", but it didn't. When I put the AC on, the idle dropped and again, it seemed like it wanted to crap out, but the idle regained its composure and it was fine. The ONLY thing I noticed was - when I felt it was going to crap out, I gave it light gas. At that point, I heard a "clunking/knocking". I wish I could describe the sound better. However, this is the BEST comparison I can make - - - - - You know how on TV or a movie you see some old piece of crap horrible car that when it turns off, the driver gets out and the car still runs (reminds me of Uncle Buck movie)? When the car wont shut it off, it makes that "clunking/knocking/puttering" noise....that was the sound I briefly got yesterday. And that is the sound it makes when it f's up and starts misfiring and stalling. Again, it did NOT f up or misfire during my above tests of yesterday and today, I just wanted to point out that I heard that noise and it made me concerned it was going to start screwing up, but it didn't.

I am going to drive the car as normal today, unfortunately I have to go to damn Walmart. Ha!

At this moment, I feel it is "better" and that something improved. I am not 100% confident all is fixed and that it will not happen again today or tomorrow....but as of right now....I am feeling good.

Thank you all so much for reading and replying. So many good folks on this website, and you have been very helpful and kind. I will continue to post updates.

Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:18 AM
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^
That sounds promising, hopefully, with all the stuff you replaced and a proper idle learn procedure, the car will perform normally.

BTW, do you always use 91+ octane fuel? Just curious.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:52 PM
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Hopefully things stay this way. I dont recall where i read that about the valve adjustment but im pretty sure it was my haynes book. Ill check this weekend. That sound i also get on hot restarts. Kinda like a back fire without the pop. Choking kinda sound? I can hear the air being sucked in but the motor doesnt really respond. Ive always known that as a misfire. My cousin who is also my mechanic( ase master certified in many things ) also said the valve adjustment i read was a bit much. I was just passing on what i read. I know that my hot restart timing is everything. Too soon and it fires right up. Too long and it fires right up.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:05 PM
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Hi.

I always use 93 octane, not because I like paying for it, but because Acura told me it requires 93 "Premium" Fuel. I wonder what is proper, and what others on here think I should use? Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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Yeah - I agree. I consider that sound a misfire. Like....something isn't syncing up.
I am going to test it out again today. I really hope I fixed it.

I have read about the valve adjustment too. I just figure if it runs well and sounds quite, I wouldn't mess with it. But then again, this is my first Acura, and I am used to my Lincoln Town Cars & Grand Marquis so........... Still learning!

Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:29 PM
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Not valves.

Shut value and charcoal canister.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:32 PM
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Shut valve is the valve attached to canister, or the one under the hood that I just replaced?

I thought about canister too! But never got an EVAP code so.........
But yeah......yeah never know.
Wish me luck....so far so good!
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:46 PM
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Yes, on the chanister.

BTW... stop using aftermarket parts. They do not last and will need to be replaced again. Your TL didn't last this long because it was made with cheap parts.
​​​​​​
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:06 PM
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You cant always go by sound. I thought my tl was the ish when i first got it. It was quick. Quite. Took it to dealer to look it over cause the srs light wouldnt go out. Reccommended a valve adjustment, srs issue was air bag module. Said ok fixed both. Mann my tl was like a little air plane after the adjustment. Major difference. Sad thing is ive been around cars my whole life and thought everything was good cause it was quite. I wasnt having the problems i have now but its also been 6 yrs and 85k miles later. Hard miles too.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 01acls View Post
Yes, on the chanister.

BTW... stop using aftermarket parts. They do not last and will need to be replaced again. Your TL didn't last this long because it was made with cheap parts.
​​​​​​
The FPR part I bought is Honda part.
The Evap Purge Valve I bought is Denso, which was the brand I removed.
I admt I used many aftermarket parts, but 6 Honda coils and 6 Honda injectors, 2 Honda oxygen sensors, for example, wasn’t in the budget even if preferred.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 01acls View Post
Yes, on the chanister.

BTW... stop using aftermarket parts. They do not last and will need to be replaced again. Your TL didn't last this long because it was made with cheap parts.
​​​​​​
And.....I will not buy a Honda Vapor Canister either. I already dropped over $1000 (includes timing belt kit that wasnt installed yet) into this crapper and I am not even sure if its fixed.....yet.

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Old 04-19-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 01acls View Post
Yes, on the chanister.

BTW... stop using aftermarket parts. They do not last and will need to be replaced again. Your TL didn't last this long because it was made with cheap parts.
​​​​​​
I could see the purge valve making engine performance issues, but not the shut valve. But.....at this point. Ha!

https://www.samarins.com/glossary/vent-valve.html


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Old 04-19-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nj00tl View Post
You cant always go by sound. I thought my tl was the ish when i first got it. It was quick. Quite. Took it to dealer to look it over cause the srs light wouldnt go out. Reccommended a valve adjustment, srs issue was air bag module. Said ok fixed both. Mann my tl was like a little air plane after the adjustment. Major difference. Sad thing is ive been around cars my whole life and thought everything was good cause it was quite. I wasnt having the problems i have now but its also been 6 yrs and 85k miles later. Hard miles too.
Interesting. I am not sure but are valve adjustments part of the timing belt job that my mechanic will be doing next month? Or is it seperate? What is involved as far as labor? Is it only removing the valve cover gaskets to adjust valves or is it more than that?
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Domenic Ricci View Post


Interesting. I am not sure but are valve adjustments part of the timing belt job that my mechanic will be doing next month? Or is it seperate? What is involved as far as labor? Is it only removing the valve cover gaskets to adjust valves or is it more than that?
separate. Cost me a little over 400 to get that done. I wouldve done it myself but i just dont have the time with how much i work but yeah pretty much straight forward. Theres a diy on here to do it. Excellent write up to.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:59 PM
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Update

This evening -
Drove car 5 miles, no issue.
Car idled in park for 35 minutes, no issues.
Two hot restarts, no issues.

(Fingers crossed)
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:03 PM
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How long are you letting the car sit before trying to restart? Whats the weather like where you are?
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nj00tl View Post
How long are you letting the car sit before trying to restart? Whats the weather like where you are?
I restarted 10 minutes after shut off.
Then restart 20 minutes later.
Then restart 30 minutes later.

Current temp is shitty at 44 degrees.
Domenic Ricci is offline  

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