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To answer your question, my friend, when starting a cold engine.......smooth/normal/excellent. Then it will drive perfectly. Strong. Not a single hesitation. But then if you leave it running in park at idle while listening to music (Elvis), after about 30 minutes, it will start missing and then start missing worse and worse and worse, until it almost shuts off. Engine light will blink and then codes will start firing. Then, I will turn car off, and when I attempt to restart, it either will not start or it will take an act of congress to get it started/stay running (unless I rev gas and hold RPM). Odd!!!!!!!!
At this point, I will be prepared for both. Although part of me hopes its the ECM so I can send the injectors back and get my money back. Maybe it is just best to replace them anyway, even if I need to change the ECM. With all the repairs/changes made to the 2000 Acura (including timing belt kit tomorrow), it should be in great shape to get another 100k miles.
So in order to be prepared for a replacement ECM......what do you recommend? Do I go on Google and type "2000 Acura TL Updated ECM" and click Shopping, and see what comes up? Do I do the same on Ebay? Should I call local salvage yards? Do I need to provide my VIN? My concern is: how can I be sure I am buying the updated version versus buying the same crapper I have in my car now.
In the meantime can you do something for us? When you fill up, check the pump and look for a notification on the pump of "may contain up to x% ethanol" (E10).
When our engines were designed and produced ethanol was apparently not yet widely included in fuel. I'm strongly suspicious that the presence of ethanol might be a contributing factor to our problems. Look for gas stations that do not use ethanol-based fuel.
You know what is starting to piss me off? Acura Service Center. When they diagnosed this issue (and charged me $125), they said it was the FPR causing my problems. They never mentioned the ECM. They never checked the ECM. They never mentioned the possibility of the FPR / ECM mismatch. Jackasses.
You want a 2001 ECM. The only way I know how to be sure is to have a visual confirmation that the ECM comes from a car that has a B D FPR and year model XX/2001.
LOL, I know you're going to ask again so no you cannot drive your car if you have your mechanic change the ECM. It is best to just bring the 2001 ECM to the dealership and tell them to change it for you.
Remember to get a 2001 ECM that matches your model TLP... Navigation or non nav-navigation to ensure that it will work with your car.
Yes, that's correct a TLP 2001 ECM... exact same model as yours... navigation or non navigation.
BTW, did I mention to get a TLP 2001 ECM... exact same model as yours... navigation or non navigation to ensure it will work with your car.
Seems like you are saying I should look for a TLP 2001 ECM! HA!!
Them idiots at Acura may not install the part that I bring to them. They once told me they only install their parts. Who the hell knows. But yeah....I will do what you mentioned.
I am starting to lean towards ECM problem as this situation has been going on for over a year. And there are many times where the car will run GREAT and PERFECT. If it had 3 bad injectors, it would NEVER run that well. In my opinion.
Sounds like I may be wasting my time tomorrow getting injectors done, so maybe I should get my money back. Idk. Either way, getting timing belt done tomorrow. I have no idea if the current belt is original or when it was changed last.
FYI, I honestly don't think the ECM is going to help you. You may or may not have the correct ECM but I don't think that matters because you are already using the B D FPR. The FPR is what raises the fuel pressure, not the ECM.
Plus the dealership told you to change just the FPR and injectors not the FPR and to update the ECM, and the injectors. That kinda tells me the dealership check for a B D FPR on your car and saw one. Unless the repair cost that the dealership quoted you for a replacement FPR was in the neighborhood of $1500-$2000? (Which you still have not disclose).
Likewise, the parts that the dealership wants to change are all for maintaining fuel pressure... Specifically mechanically for maintaining fuel pressure.
Like I said before, I'm not so sure what to tell you anymore without knowing what the original FPR was... A B D FPR or not?
One other possibility is that your ECM is defective.
I have NO IDEA if the FPR I replaced was a BD FPR. I honestly never knew of a black dot FPR until you taught me about it. Ha!
But yes, Acura said it needed an FPR when they diagnosed the problem. They said they had a used FPR laying around, and when they put it in my car, the problem stopped.
So, I went home and bought my own BD FPR and installed, however problem came back weeks later.
Acura said their price to replace FPR was between $400-$500. They said I also needed 6 fuel injectors and that price was around $1,100 total. Once I heard their prices, I stopped listening to anything else they said.
And to be honest, I am not 100% confident in their level of expertise. Hard to explain...I just have had troubles with them in the past.
Thanks, Iggy. I will do that. I will search as you said, and I have learned that even though I have a 2000 Acura TL, I need to search for a 2001 ECM.
Is the programming need due to the key not working with the ignition? Are there other programming needs? I ask because I have had people tell me the replacement ECM is "plug and play" and doesnt require programming.....another told me it can be installed and driven to Acura for programming......another told me to install it and tow it to Acura for programming. Yikes! As you can see, this ECM topic leaves me very ignorant. Thankfully 01acls has been very cool to help me. I have really learned alot here.
Yes the ECM holds the programming for the immobilizer and is tied with the key, thus the programming. Of course, a new key will not match the current barrel that you slide the key into on the column but the junkyard I think will give that to you as well. I've never done it so my info may be off a bit. perhaps someone else will chime in.
Another thing you can do is tape the new key to your old key which will allow you to start the motor and drive it somewhere to have the programming done. like this:
Also, IIRC, call around to automotive locksmiths in your area. I believe some can do key programming without going to a dealer.
Yes the ECM holds the programming for the immobilizer and is tied with the key, thus the programming. Of course, a new key will not match the current barrel that you slide the key into on the column but the junkyard I think will give that to you as well. I've never done it so my info may be off a bit. perhaps someone else will chime in.
Another thing you can do is tape the new key to your old key which will allow you to start the motor and drive it somewhere to have the programming done. like this:
Also, IIRC, call around to automotive locksmiths in your area. I believe some can do key programming without going to a dealer.
VERY INTERESTING idea Iggy, I also wonder if it anyone has ever tried this. Sure would save the hassle and expense to towing.
I will NOT be traveling to PA today to get the timing belt and injectors replaced.
I have a call into my local Acura Service Center, and I will probably stop over there this afternoon.
Yesterday they said they are reviewing my records to investigate the BD FPR and ECM situation and they also said they can install a salvage ECM and program it, if I wish (they just cannot guarantee the part). I also am curious as to what they will charge to do this task.
Went to Acura yesterday to talk to the Service Manager and 1 of their lead techs (they were very cool guys).
My ECU was checked, and apparently I have the updated ECM.
Acura ran some type of diagnostic and determined it is not the ECM needing replacement, but that the fuel injectors need to be replaced.
Acura also called another service center to gather their opinion, and were told it is either fuel injectors or ECM. Oh joy!
So..........................
I am driving to PA today to have the injectors installed. Wish me luck!
If that doesn't work, I have the ECM part number that I need and I will purchase it and bring it to Acura for install/programming.
Injectors installed.
Drives well.
Multiple hot starts with no issues.
Car is currently in park and idling at operating temperature. In 30 more minutes I will check to see if issue duplicates itself and if check engine light illuminates.
Injectors installed.
Drives well.
Multiple hot starts with no issues.
Car is currently in park and idling at operating temperature. In 30 more minutes I will check to see if issue duplicates itself and if check engine light illuminates.
I will reply shortly.
Came outside 30 minutes later - car was huffing and puffing, missing, and knocking.
I turned car off. Had serious trouble restarting car. Had to hold foot on pedal and rev engine to keep it running. Then issue would repeat itself. Got it started again and this time a more violent shaking and knocking and engine light started to blink. Code reader said "No codes found". I clicked "read codes" anyway and the only code that came up was "1399 manufacture control".
I called Acura and told them I am coming back to them idiots tomorrow for another free diagnostic.
I am going to order a used PCM now - part number 37820P8EL55.
If that doesn't work then I guess the engine is bad and I will light it on fire and never get another one of these shitboxes again. (Still pissed about the shitty transmissions they used for 8 years in this car).
Crap, what a piece of shit! Are you sure you have the correct NGK plugs in there?
I think I went NGK because they were slightly cheaper than Bosch (which I didn't want anyway).
However, this is 2nd set of new plugs since the problem first started about 12-16 months ago. Same issue before and after new plugs.
I just cannot understand why after the injectors were installed it sounded great and ran great driving home. It keeps doing this shit during a 20-40 minute idle and often during a hot engine temp restart.
You still thinking ECM is worth a short? Any chance it had internal engine issues? If ECM, which I think is LAST thng to try, doesn't work I guess I will sniff paint and call it a day.
Ok, you have been cool enough to reply so it is only right that I get the grounds checked. I will do so.
However, do the specific symptoms jive up with bad grounds?
if I go out and start the car now (it has cooled for hours), it will start and run fine. So if bad grounds.......wouldn't problem be more frequent/constant?
Other possible causes... EVAP system... Defective shut value and/or charcoal canister; defective purge value; defective ECM.
I thought EVAP for a moment but why no EVAP check engine codes?
I have had EVAP problems in the past with another car, but the problem was immediately following filling the gas tank (EVAP valve under told, not next to canister was the cukprit). I feel like EVAP wouldn't produce these problems. However at this point.........I will bring it up with dumbass Acura tomorrow.
Ok, you have been cool enough to reply so it is only right that I get the grounds checked. I will do so.
However, do the specific symptoms jive up with bad grounds?
if I go out and start the car now (it has cooled for hours), it will start and run fine. So if bad grounds.......wouldn't problem be more frequent/constant?
Thanks!!!!
When I had random issues with my old CLS it would only happen every few weeks & it drove me insane since I had no idea what it was. One day I decided to check out the grounds & found out that a couple of the engine grounds are grounds for MULTIPLE components. Except for the battery ground, the 2 main ones are under the throttle body & by the power steering pump.
Not 100% sure it's your issue but for the price of a piece of sandpaper (unless a ground is torn), there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a once over.
When I had random issues with my old CLS it would only happen every few weeks & it drove me insane since I had no idea what it was. One day I decided to check out the grounds & found out that a couple of the engine grounds are grounds for MULTIPLE components. Except for the battery ground, the 2 main ones are under the throttle body & by the power steering pump.
Not 100% sure it's your issue but for the price of a piece of sandpaper (unless a ground is torn), there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a once over.
The car seems to me only able to record a code if it's rpm is above a certain level. Meaning the car has to be running to record a code. If it's not running it seems to be programmed to default mode of not recording a code due to the possibility of the car operating normally. Such as when the car is being turn off or the car just being started and settling into it's normal idling rpm.
In your case the hot start... Car not running... No code.
Car dying... Car not running... No code.
When the car is running... It's running fine... No code.
The car seems to me only able to record a code if it's rpm is above a certain level. Meaning the car has to be running to record a code. If it's not running it seems to be programmed to default mode of not recording a code due to the possibility of the car operating normally. Such as when the car is being turn off or the car just being started and settling into it's normal idling rpm.
In your case the hot start... Car not running... No code.
Car dying... Car not running... No code.
When the car is running... It's running fine... No code.
BTW... O2 sensors are another possibility.
Replaced both O2 sensors a few weeks ago.
Went looking for an EVAP Purge Valve today......no-one has them in stock so I will just order from rockauto.com
The car seems to me only able to record a code if it's rpm is above a certain level. Meaning the car has to be running to record a code. If it's not running it seems to be programmed to default mode of not recording a code due to the possibility of the car operating normally. Such as when the car is being turn off or the car just being started and settling into it's normal idling rpm.
In your case the hot start... Car not running... No code.
Car dying... Car not running... No code.
When the car is running... It's running fine... No code.
BTW... O2 sensors are another possibility.
I tried to reset the ECU (gas pedal to floor for 35 seconds) but it wouldn't reset. I have reset ECU in past without issue.
Can I assume it will not reset due to the ECU being faulty?
Don't think there is a 35 sec gas pedal reset on these cars although I may be wrong. I do know that pulling the clock/backup fuse on the passenger side will reset it though.
04-10-2018, 06:52 PM
