What octane gas do you use in your TL?
#7
I've been using 87 octane for a while now. The only noticeable difference is a slight loss, which might be just in my head, of power under hard acceleration. These engines will adjust to lower octane and will not knock. And I'm getting better gas mileage with 87 than I did with 91 (we don't get 93 in California).
Originally Posted by ou sig
premium only - anything less and you will have knock problems during hard acceleration and poor gas mileage
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#9
Originally Posted by kaih
I've been using 87 octane for a while now. The only noticeable difference is a slight loss, which might be just in my head, of power under hard acceleration. These engines will adjust to lower octane and will not knock. And I'm getting better gas mileage with 87 than I did with 91 (we don't get 93 in California).
that may be the case, but it has longterm effects from what ive read
#10
Originally Posted by kaih
I've been using 87 octane for a while now. The only noticeable difference is a slight loss, which might be just in my head, of power under hard acceleration. These engines will adjust to lower octane and will not knock. And I'm getting better gas mileage with 87 than I did with 91 (we don't get 93 in California).
My point is, she has 60k miles on the car, so it took a bit to catch up. and you are right, the computer will adjust for the lower octaine, but it is not good for the engine for the long haul. The computer adjustment is for if you accidentally fill up 1 time with the lower octaine - but you should never run less than required consistently - its not worth the dollar or two you save/tank.
#11
I always use premium gas (usually 93 around here) but am interested in this 89 octane issue. What are these "problems" that are caused by running the lower octane gas and please list reliable sources. Please don't take me rude, but I don't really care what your buddy "Bill the Mechanic" said unless Bill has done some sort of "scientific" experiments to prove his hypothesis. If our cars will in fact adjust the timing etc to run the lower octane, and the "spark knock" is eliminated, what is the harm. Actually I have read articles that show that regular unleaded actually burns a lot cleaner in the engine than premium and I would guess it would also burn cooler... which seems like a good thing to me.
Please educate me... one that knows the details. Be as technical as you like cause I will look up what I don't understand. Thanks.
Please educate me... one that knows the details. Be as technical as you like cause I will look up what I don't understand. Thanks.
#13
Originally Posted by dark inspire
that may be the case, but it has longterm effects from what ive read
I pulled up one quote, there are other sources.
“The car will run on regular fuel without damaging the engine,” said Martin Peters, manager of public relations for Porsche Cars North America Inc., the Atlanta-based subsidiary of Porsche AG, which like other automakers recommends premium fuel for all of its cars for “optimum performance.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7518098/
#14
My experience is with my own car and my mom's car - both have similar engines with a higher compression that "require" higher octaine. My mom used 87 untill her engine started knocking bad - it immediately stoped when she used premium - that seems like a pretty obvious test with results.
Now saying that will happen 100% in our cars is ridiculous, because every engine is slightly different and our 3.2 vs. the Avalons 3.0 is also very different. I dont believe there will be a test with 100% accurate results across the board. So if you want to save the few bucks/tank, be my guest - just dont be surprised if you have engine knock sometime down the road with lower performance all the time.
Now saying that will happen 100% in our cars is ridiculous, because every engine is slightly different and our 3.2 vs. the Avalons 3.0 is also very different. I dont believe there will be a test with 100% accurate results across the board. So if you want to save the few bucks/tank, be my guest - just dont be surprised if you have engine knock sometime down the road with lower performance all the time.
#15
Originally Posted by ou sig
My experience is with my own car and my mom's car - both have similar engines with a higher compression that "require" higher octaine. My mom used 87 untill her engine started knocking bad - it immediately stoped when she used premium - that seems like a pretty obvious test with results.
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Another thought is that the car needs servicing or has an ignition problem. I'm not convinced that the gas grade is the culprit.
#17
Originally Posted by progz
If Acura says to fill it up with premium gas only then there could be a very good reason behind it. I don't see the cost benefit of saving $0.20/gallon. BTW..I only use 91 Shell.
#18
Originally Posted by kaih
It won't make the maximum or advertised power on lower octane gas. But it will not hurt the engine to run lower octane.
#19
Originally Posted by kaih
It won't make the maximum or advertised power on lower octane gas. But it will not hurt the engine to run lower octane.
#20
Originally Posted by progz
If the car is not designed to run on lower octane why take the risk. That's the same reason why you go with the big companies like shell, mobil....instead of arco or the no name brand in your neigborhood. It's because of the impurities that you might get from their gas. Well I guess its really up to the car owner. If he finds it satisfying then so be it. IMHO, I'll spend an extra 0.20/gallon for my $13K car. I don't have the $$$ to do mods but I have 0.20 cents to spend to keep my engine running.
#21
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
exactly. honda designed the car to be most powerfull and efficant at 91+ octane. will it hurt the engine? it is possible (all it takes is 1 knock) is it likely no. you spend this much money on a 30k car, why cheap out on the extra $$ to make your car run the way it was designed. i for 1 get much worse mileage with 87 (had to use it a few times) than with 93
#22
Originally Posted by ou sig
my point exactly - even my stubborn dad finally realizes that engines are different now, and premium isnt a waste but a necessity for some cars for them to run properly
The main purpose of octane is to control knock, by burning slower. It does not make more power by itself. The extra power comes from being able to advance timing in the ignition without knocking and thus make more power. Otherwise the higher octane does nothing else.
If you have a car today that is knocking it's probably coming from carbon deposits on top of the pistons which increase compression ratios. The higher the compression ratio the higher octane you'll need. There is a limit to how much the ignition timing will retard to control detonation. So if it's knocking it might not be the gas but your engine is needs to have the carbon removed. If that Avalon ran fine for three years and 87 then it started to knock that's probably the culprit.
You can put whatever you want in your gas tank. If premium makes you happy, fine it makes the oil companies happy too. But the fact is the car will run fine on regular. Show me a car who's engine has blown due to using the wrong grade gas. And don't quote me what some obscure mechanic said. Most mechanics only know what the computer hooked up to the car tells them.
#23
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
exactly. honda designed the car to be most powerfull and efficant at 91+ octane. will it hurt the engine? it is possible (all it takes is 1 knock) is it likely no. you spend this much money on a 30k car, why cheap out on the extra $$ to make your car run the way it was designed. i for 1 get much worse mileage with 87 (had to use it a few times) than with 93
They designed the car to be a luxury sedan. I don't recall headers, intake, springs sways, pullies exhaust, 19's and superchargers part of the design, but people change those all the time with no ill effect either.
#25
Originally Posted by kaih
They are different which is why you don't need the higher octane ratings. Most cars made from the early 80's and before that were carburated and had mechanical ignition systems. Those cars could not self adjust timing. Todays cars habr knock sensors and computerized ignition systems which can compensate for different conditions such as gas octane. Temperature, altitude and humidity also affect the engines abiltity to burn fuel and the cars systems can compensate for these factors as well.
The main purpose of octane is to control knock, by burning slower. It does not make more power by itself. The extra power comes from being able to advance timing in the ignition without knocking and thus make more power. Otherwise the higher octane does nothing else.
If you have a car today that is knocking it's probably coming from carbon deposits on top of the pistons which increase compression ratios. The higher the compression ratio the higher octane you'll need. There is a limit to how much the ignition timing will retard to control detonation. So if it's knocking it might not be the gas but your engine is needs to have the carbon removed. If that Avalon ran fine for three years and 87 then it started to knock that's probably the culprit.
You can put whatever you want in your gas tank. If premium makes you happy, fine it makes the oil companies happy too. But the fact is the car will run fine on regular. Show me a car who's engine has blown due to using the wrong grade gas. And don't quote me what some obscure mechanic said. Most mechanics only know what the computer hooked up to the car tells them.
The main purpose of octane is to control knock, by burning slower. It does not make more power by itself. The extra power comes from being able to advance timing in the ignition without knocking and thus make more power. Otherwise the higher octane does nothing else.
If you have a car today that is knocking it's probably coming from carbon deposits on top of the pistons which increase compression ratios. The higher the compression ratio the higher octane you'll need. There is a limit to how much the ignition timing will retard to control detonation. So if it's knocking it might not be the gas but your engine is needs to have the carbon removed. If that Avalon ran fine for three years and 87 then it started to knock that's probably the culprit.
You can put whatever you want in your gas tank. If premium makes you happy, fine it makes the oil companies happy too. But the fact is the car will run fine on regular. Show me a car who's engine has blown due to using the wrong grade gas. And don't quote me what some obscure mechanic said. Most mechanics only know what the computer hooked up to the car tells them.
#26
Originally Posted by kaih
You can put whatever you want in your gas tank. If premium makes you happy, fine it makes the oil companies happy too. But the fact is the car will run fine on regular. Show me a car who's engine has blown due to using the wrong grade gas. And don't quote me what some obscure mechanic said. Most mechanics only know what the computer hooked up to the car tells them.
#28
I also have a 03 Odyssey and the recommended fuel is 87 regular. But I did heard from Ody owners that putting high grade fuel gives the engine a better performance. I haven't tried it myself because Ody is not fuel efficient. I once own a 99 Camry and the engine knocked. I don't know if it was caused by the fuel type but based from that experience I'll just follow what the book says. And it is my belief that Acura has a very valid reason for putting a label on our gas tank "Premium Fuel Only." If they think that Regular Fuel will work then they should have put a different label.
#29
My silver lady gets 93 octane here in NY. that's because it's hard t fid place with 91.
Occasionaly, I fill it with half 89 and half 93 just to save
But most of the time, I give my baby the love that it deserves!
Occasionaly, I fill it with half 89 and half 93 just to save
But most of the time, I give my baby the love that it deserves!
#32
Originally Posted by brakejobhelp
to echo everyone else, when you drive a premium car why go cheapo on the gas?
Plus a $150 saved in gas a year is 10 more cases of beer for me.
#33
Originally Posted by progz
I also have a 03 Odyssey and the recommended fuel is 87 regular. But I did heard from Ody owners that putting high grade fuel gives the engine a better performance. I haven't tried it myself because Ody is not fuel efficient. I once own a 99 Camry and the engine knocked. I don't know if it was caused by the fuel type but based from that experience I'll just follow what the book says. And it is my belief that Acura has a very valid reason for putting a label on our gas tank "Premium Fuel Only." If they think that Regular Fuel will work then they should have put a different label.
#34
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
i cant show you a engine that has blown (recently but it has happened to me in the past) and NONE of us here have stated they can. BUT what i can show you is ALOT lower mileage, and when you have to fill up the tank almost every day like my self REGULAR gas (87) costs alot more than 93. i could also show you my car is slower with it too. YOU can put what ever you want into your car, and i will continue to put in 93 because it costs me less and i get better performance
I've stated the car does not make as much power with 87 grade than it would with premium if it was designed around running premium.
My point is simple, you can run regular gas in a car that says premium without damaging the engine.
If the car knocks you've got other problems, don't blame it on the fuel grade.
#35
Originally Posted by ou sig
I dont doubt your knowledge at all - Im just saying a lower octane (Can) cause engine knocking and reduced performance in some modern usually smaller higher compression engines
Originally Posted by ou sig
- will it blow up your engine? I would say no - but the Avalon quit knocking with the premium gas and hasnt since - kinda makes me think that the regular gas had something to do with it.
Originally Posted by ou sig
And my dad's stubbornness is understandable because like you and he said, older cars didnt need premium at all, and anything but regular fuel was a total waste of money in older cars and is in some modern cars also
#36
I filled up the otherday with 87, I tagged the tripometer and will monitor the mileage. I will next fill it up with the most premium I can find (93 most likely) and will report back on the mileage
As for why wonder if it will damage the car running 87, well I think its a great question. Gas prices are rising and the where I am at (Chicago) the gap is closer to .30 on the gallon. Thats close to 5 bucks a fillup. or 260 bucks a year if you only fill up once a week (I fill up more).
So say average driving with extra (holidays, events, etc...) you probably would end up spending close to an extra 350 a year for the premium gas.
not much to some.....blows the car budget for others. I dont think some of you should be blasting people for trying to save a dime where they can. As you can see I filled up with 87 so I am one of those people. I save where I can so I can spend what I want.
If it does make a significant difference I will never use low octane again though. I just read in so many publications that higher octane is a rip off. This is the first premium car that I have owned so I dont want to screw up the ride .... how sweet it is
As for why wonder if it will damage the car running 87, well I think its a great question. Gas prices are rising and the where I am at (Chicago) the gap is closer to .30 on the gallon. Thats close to 5 bucks a fillup. or 260 bucks a year if you only fill up once a week (I fill up more).
So say average driving with extra (holidays, events, etc...) you probably would end up spending close to an extra 350 a year for the premium gas.
not much to some.....blows the car budget for others. I dont think some of you should be blasting people for trying to save a dime where they can. As you can see I filled up with 87 so I am one of those people. I save where I can so I can spend what I want.
If it does make a significant difference I will never use low octane again though. I just read in so many publications that higher octane is a rip off. This is the first premium car that I have owned so I dont want to screw up the ride .... how sweet it is
#39
Originally Posted by kaih
if the car continued to knock after multiple fill ups of 87 from various gas stations, then stopped after the premium fill I could believe it more.
Originally Posted by kaih
Cars that were set up to run on premium advance ignition timing which takes advantage of the higher octane.
I have seen a few article in publications dealing with what a waste it is to run 91+ in a car designed for 87, but I have also seen the same when talking about the reverse. Every time, the drop in mpg alone meant in the end that the difference in price between the 2 amounted to pennies, and was a small fraction compared to the difference at the pump. If you use more of the cheaper gas, its not much of a savings. This doesnt even take into account the issue of decreased power, and performance.
If your car is knocking, your sensors arent keeping up, and any knocking whatsoever is a very bad thing.
These cars especially the Type-S with its even higher compression over the TL-P run the best, and at their most efficient with the recommended octane. If you own a TL-P, or a TL-S especially, why waste the thousands on the added perfomance if you are going to just water it down with lower octane gas?
There is also the fact that most stations do add more detergents, and additives to their higher octane blends which help combat carbon deposits etc, and keep your engine running cleaner longer. In one users case, that could easily lead to carbon deposits, etc which would then cause knocking.
If a car is designed for it, you should run it. You say find me a blown engine due to running lower than recommended octane. I say find me any respected mechanic, or automotive publication that would recommend running lower than recommended octane.
#40
Originally Posted by Chauncey
If it does make a significant difference I will never use low octane again though. I just read in so many publications that higher octane is a rip off. This is the first premium car that I have owned so I dont want to screw up the ride .... how sweet it is
In a car designed for 91+, running anything lower will cause over retarded timing, a drop in performance, and in the worst case, can lead to knock. May not be an issue cruising on a free flowing highway. On a hot day under load, etc it definitely could be, and all it takes is a few seconds of knock to cause major damage.