PHEES 99 TL6 swap thread/parts list/price list/question thread
i noticed you had alot of little bolts and shits that i am missing. i know this is going to take forever to figure out
01-24-2009, 11:05 PM
#139
Rr trans mount Rr trans mount - Manual trans 2003 -43.37
RUBBER, FR -30.67
SPRING -1.35
NUT 1 $0.95
PIN, EQUALIZER 1 $0.49
Rear suspension - Parking brake - Equalizer Equalizer 1991 - 2005 1 $1.64
BOLT, FLANGE 12X25 1 $1.84
LEVER ASSY. NH167L 1 $49.67
Engine / transaxle - Engine and trans mounting - Rear mount Rear mount - Manual trans 2003 1 $128.89
Clutch, Clutch and flywheel, Release bearing, Release bearing, tl 1 $32.98
Clutch, Hydraulic system, Flex hose, Flex hose, tl 1 $12.68
Manual transaxle, Shift control cable, Shift control cable, tl 1 $89.90
LEVER SUB-ASSY. 1 $61.95
BOLT 12MM 8 $17.52
Status: On Order
Sub Total $473.90
Tax $0.00
Shipping $45.02
Handling Fee $0.00
Total $518.92
RUBBER, FR -30.67
SPRING -1.35
NUT 1 $0.95
PIN, EQUALIZER 1 $0.49
Rear suspension - Parking brake - Equalizer Equalizer 1991 - 2005 1 $1.64
BOLT, FLANGE 12X25 1 $1.84
LEVER ASSY. NH167L 1 $49.67
Engine / transaxle - Engine and trans mounting - Rear mount Rear mount - Manual trans 2003 1 $128.89
Clutch, Clutch and flywheel, Release bearing, Release bearing, tl 1 $32.98
Clutch, Hydraulic system, Flex hose, Flex hose, tl 1 $12.68
Manual transaxle, Shift control cable, Shift control cable, tl 1 $89.90
LEVER SUB-ASSY. 1 $61.95
BOLT 12MM 8 $17.52
Status: On Order
Sub Total $473.90
Tax $0.00
Shipping $45.02
Handling Fee $0.00
Total $518.92
Last edited by phee; 01-24-2009 at 11:10 PM.
01-25-2009, 09:26 AM
#140
Why Boast!
Hey Phee if you need another clutch pedal I can send you one in good condition. Just send me $10 to cover the shipping via paypal and you can have it. For some reason I ended up with 2 of them. Hell I might have 2 brake pedals as well but I'll have to check when I go visit my moms. Let me know if you want the pedal.
01-25-2009, 12:48 PM
#143
No.. they aren't any different. I hadn't heard anything about them falling apart. I have been running them for over a year. They are stiffer, therefore rougher than the OEM mounts, but they do a nice job of getting the power down and have a lifetime warranty. If they ever do fall apart, you get a new one for free.
01-25-2009, 01:03 PM
#144
Note.... Tim would not send a new mount without 1st sending the old mount back.(whole mount) He would sell you 2 new bushings for full price & then credit back the $ minus shipping(of course) after you send the old bushings back. Oh And that's IF they looked to have a problem.
Great service....
Great service....
this makes me regret purchasing the mounts... I guess I'll install my front mount and maybe my rear mount and see what happens and cross my finger's that these bushings will hold up. This is my daily driver and I cant render my car not drivable while I wait for new bushings, or much less send my whole mount back before I receive another. And that's still running the risk that the next bushings sent will be problematic as well.Okay guys, sorry about the delays . . . work has been kicking my 
and with the wifey and kids hogging the computer for things like school work, system time is a premium. 
Anyway, I talked with both Greg and Tim today to get a verdict on where things are going, so here's a summary.
Some comments on references to mounts and such. There are 3 basic components we’re dealing with here. 1) is the bracket, 2) is the motor mount in which the bushings are place and 3) the actually bushing itself.
First off with Greg to get the scoop on the formulation of the bushings. Note, IM has a separate source for the bushings, so as I understood it from Greg, IM did not request a formulation change in the first place, so they recognize the it's a problem and are doing what they can to make things acceptable. Keep that word in mind as we move forward, it'll define when some of you bail or stick with it.
1) As we pretty much already know, the first batch was a failure. The formulation was designed to actually allow some more engine movement, and thus less vibration. However, for whatever reason our engine mounting design does not like it. So back to the drawing board and IM had their supplier change the formulation to something harder/stronger. These are what I call the 2nd gen red bushings. And IM also changed up the motor mount as well.
2) Myself and some others get the 2nd gen bushings. Mine last about a week and they’re toast. However, the vibrations did get better, but not enough for those whose cars are daily drivers. I send the mount and red bushings back for analysis. This was a slow process and with IM people in and out of the office, Greg was not back until 10/08, and I get with him on 10/09.
3) Greg basically tells me that yes, the first formulation was a dud and that for whatever reason the 2nd gen bushings didn’t hold up. And I’ll add, ‘didn’t solve the vibration problem satisfactorily’. I asked if they had a 3rd gen batch produced, and he said they did. I asked that the send back my mount with the red 3rd gen bushings so I could test them out, and I’ll explain that later.
Greg also commented that they are now recommending we use the black 75A bushings, which are referenced as the street/strip mounts. He reasoning basically had to do with ‘our engines’ and that they really need the stronger bushings. So, basically the black bushing are not only firmer, but also stronger, okay, makes sense. See my comments below for more on this. Greg also comments that while they have a lifetime warranty, these or any mounts (well bushings) will last as long as some of us will drive these cars, but in my opinion they will last much longer than the OEM mounts and are significantly easier to replace. Greg then transfers me to Tim so we can talk about testing the 3rd gen bushings.
4) Talk with Tim and I get the sense they are at a loss on actually being able to resolve the issue 100%. Tim agrees to move forward and send me the latest bushings. I will update everyone once I get them, . . . .sigh
Okay, my next steps, and note that I’m currently running the black mounts on the front and rear, and I’m still happy with the pure performance part, but wish the vibrations would be like they are in neutral with the A/C off . . . that would be perfectly acceptable to me, but alas, it’s not good enough, so come on 3rd gen bushings.
1) Remove the rear black mount and install the 3rd gen red bushing. And hope this is good enough, or it’s game over as I don’t believe there’s much more IM can do or will do at this point. It’s really dependent on what we find out with these other configurations. I’m not saying this as a fact, but just
trying to prepare everyone for what may end up being.
2) After testing the red in the rear and the black in the front, I will swap out the black front and install the red. I will post results of this as well.
3) And just for grins, I will install the black in the rear while leaving the red in the front. I want to know how each works in hopes that it’ll help give us and IM more insight on what else to try.
All righty then, here’s some recommendations.
For those of you who want as close to factory smoothness as possible, I think the closest you’ll come to that with IM mounts, Use the red mounts on the front and side, and the OEM mount in the rear. It’s not perfect, but a pretty good compromise. Let me explain.
In regard to the OEM mounts, and based on my and others on the forum’s experience, the front and side mounts take the most abuse. In my case they were totally ripped apart. It is my belief
that the rear OEM mounts would hold up with IM mounts on the front and side. And the best configuration might end up being black on the front, red on the side and OEM on the rear. However, it’ll be some time before I get to that point, and that would mean I’m throwing in the towel on the vibration being resolved. :surrender
Those of you who are all about performance and don’t mind the mild vibrations with the A/C off, or moderate vibrations with the A/C on, blacks in the front and rear may be the way to go, but keep up with this thread as we’re still working towards a resolution.
Those of you, who are not giving up yet, stay tuned. I’m going to test at least 3 more configurations to see what the gets us.
Ruf
Ha . . this time I wrote it all out in Word then pasted it . . no more browser crash screwing with me.
and with the wifey and kids hogging the computer for things like school work, system time is a premium. Anyway, I talked with both Greg and Tim today to get a verdict on where things are going, so here's a summary.
Some comments on references to mounts and such. There are 3 basic components we’re dealing with here. 1) is the bracket, 2) is the motor mount in which the bushings are place and 3) the actually bushing itself.
First off with Greg to get the scoop on the formulation of the bushings. Note, IM has a separate source for the bushings, so as I understood it from Greg, IM did not request a formulation change in the first place, so they recognize the it's a problem and are doing what they can to make things acceptable. Keep that word in mind as we move forward, it'll define when some of you bail or stick with it.
1) As we pretty much already know, the first batch was a failure. The formulation was designed to actually allow some more engine movement, and thus less vibration. However, for whatever reason our engine mounting design does not like it. So back to the drawing board and IM had their supplier change the formulation to something harder/stronger. These are what I call the 2nd gen red bushings. And IM also changed up the motor mount as well.
2) Myself and some others get the 2nd gen bushings. Mine last about a week and they’re toast. However, the vibrations did get better, but not enough for those whose cars are daily drivers. I send the mount and red bushings back for analysis. This was a slow process and with IM people in and out of the office, Greg was not back until 10/08, and I get with him on 10/09.
3) Greg basically tells me that yes, the first formulation was a dud and that for whatever reason the 2nd gen bushings didn’t hold up. And I’ll add, ‘didn’t solve the vibration problem satisfactorily’. I asked if they had a 3rd gen batch produced, and he said they did. I asked that the send back my mount with the red 3rd gen bushings so I could test them out, and I’ll explain that later.
Greg also commented that they are now recommending we use the black 75A bushings, which are referenced as the street/strip mounts. He reasoning basically had to do with ‘our engines’ and that they really need the stronger bushings. So, basically the black bushing are not only firmer, but also stronger, okay, makes sense. See my comments below for more on this. Greg also comments that while they have a lifetime warranty, these or any mounts (well bushings) will last as long as some of us will drive these cars, but in my opinion they will last much longer than the OEM mounts and are significantly easier to replace. Greg then transfers me to Tim so we can talk about testing the 3rd gen bushings.
4) Talk with Tim and I get the sense they are at a loss on actually being able to resolve the issue 100%. Tim agrees to move forward and send me the latest bushings. I will update everyone once I get them, . . . .sigh
Okay, my next steps, and note that I’m currently running the black mounts on the front and rear, and I’m still happy with the pure performance part, but wish the vibrations would be like they are in neutral with the A/C off . . . that would be perfectly acceptable to me, but alas, it’s not good enough, so come on 3rd gen bushings.
1) Remove the rear black mount and install the 3rd gen red bushing. And hope this is good enough, or it’s game over as I don’t believe there’s much more IM can do or will do at this point. It’s really dependent on what we find out with these other configurations. I’m not saying this as a fact, but just
trying to prepare everyone for what may end up being.
2) After testing the red in the rear and the black in the front, I will swap out the black front and install the red. I will post results of this as well.
3) And just for grins, I will install the black in the rear while leaving the red in the front. I want to know how each works in hopes that it’ll help give us and IM more insight on what else to try.
All righty then, here’s some recommendations.
For those of you who want as close to factory smoothness as possible, I think the closest you’ll come to that with IM mounts, Use the red mounts on the front and side, and the OEM mount in the rear. It’s not perfect, but a pretty good compromise. Let me explain.
In regard to the OEM mounts, and based on my and others on the forum’s experience, the front and side mounts take the most abuse. In my case they were totally ripped apart. It is my belief
that the rear OEM mounts would hold up with IM mounts on the front and side. And the best configuration might end up being black on the front, red on the side and OEM on the rear. However, it’ll be some time before I get to that point, and that would mean I’m throwing in the towel on the vibration being resolved. :surrenderThose of you who are all about performance and don’t mind the mild vibrations with the A/C off, or moderate vibrations with the A/C on, blacks in the front and rear may be the way to go, but keep up with this thread as we’re still working towards a resolution.
Those of you, who are not giving up yet, stay tuned. I’m going to test at least 3 more configurations to see what the gets us.
Ruf
Ha . . this time I wrote it all out in Word then pasted it . . no more browser crash screwing with me.
thats just the most recent page
01-25-2009, 01:16 PM
#145
I'm Done With Innovative!
I've been trying for over a month to get an update from Innovative on the status of the latest redesign. I've tested several different designs to help them fix the vibration problem with the rear mount. I've also asked for the 2 references that Innovative claims to have no vibration problems . . . and have not provided them. Innovative is denying that there is a significant vibration problem and has not looked at the video I took to prove otherwise.
Since I've had to resort to replacing the rear mount with an OEM mount to solve the vibration problems I will no longer do free testing of their mounts.
I still have Innovative mounts on the front (3rd gen design) and the side (2nd gen).
NOTE: The following recommendations only apply to Innovative mounts for the 2nd Gen CL/TLs.
I DO NOT recommend anyone use any of the front, rear or side first gen Innovative mounts.
I also DO NOT recommend using the 2nd gen front or rear mounts.
And finally, I DO NOT recommend installing any of their rear mounts as no design to date has been anywhere close to being satisfactory.
You may PM me for a more timely response or post here in hopes that I will check from time to time.
Finally, The overall desire to address the weakness of the OEM mounts is still an issue I will continue to invest some time on, but not at the rate I've done so far. Better motor mounts are a big plus for our cars, so please let me know if you come across anything and I will check in to it and add my
I'm sorry this hasn't worked out . . . I'm not sure what actions if any to take with Innovative . . . but I know a lot of people spent a lot of money and time on a product that did not work out . . . if anyone wishes to discuss what all I and or other's have done with Innovative please PM me and I'll respond as appropriate.
Ruf
I've been trying for over a month to get an update from Innovative on the status of the latest redesign. I've tested several different designs to help them fix the vibration problem with the rear mount. I've also asked for the 2 references that Innovative claims to have no vibration problems . . . and have not provided them. Innovative is denying that there is a significant vibration problem and has not looked at the video I took to prove otherwise.
Since I've had to resort to replacing the rear mount with an OEM mount to solve the vibration problems I will no longer do free testing of their mounts.
I still have Innovative mounts on the front (3rd gen design) and the side (2nd gen).
NOTE: The following recommendations only apply to Innovative mounts for the 2nd Gen CL/TLs.
I DO NOT recommend anyone use any of the front, rear or side first gen Innovative mounts.
I also DO NOT recommend using the 2nd gen front or rear mounts.
And finally, I DO NOT recommend installing any of their rear mounts as no design to date has been anywhere close to being satisfactory.
You may PM me for a more timely response or post here in hopes that I will check from time to time.
Finally, The overall desire to address the weakness of the OEM mounts is still an issue I will continue to invest some time on, but not at the rate I've done so far. Better motor mounts are a big plus for our cars, so please let me know if you come across anything and I will check in to it and add my
I'm sorry this hasn't worked out . . . I'm not sure what actions if any to take with Innovative . . . but I know a lot of people spent a lot of money and time on a product that did not work out . . . if anyone wishes to discuss what all I and or other's have done with Innovative please PM me and I'll respond as appropriate.
Ruf
01-26-2009, 05:28 PM
#147
got some news guys. today i recieved a good will transmission for my 99 TL. i will still be going through with the swap. but this just bought me a whole bunch of time. if anyone is interested in buying the brand new auto tranny, send me a PM with your offer. i wont need it long 
01-26-2009, 05:56 PM
#149
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
got some news guys. today i recieved a good will transmission for my 99 TL. i will still be going through with the swap. but this just bought me a whole bunch of time. if anyone is interested in buying the brand new auto tranny, send me a PM with your offer. i wont need it long
