PHEES 99 TL6 swap thread/parts list/price list/question thread
01-11-2009, 04:59 PM
#86
where can i find this?
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5...6medium4aq.jpg
how much should i pay? and will i need the 3rd gen tl one or the cl-s one. (i have a 3rd gen tranny)
do i need a specific CMC and SMC for the trans or will any do?
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5...6medium4aq.jpg
how much should i pay? and will i need the 3rd gen tl one or the cl-s one. (i have a 3rd gen tranny)
do i need a specific CMC and SMC for the trans or will any do?
01-11-2009, 06:52 PM
#89
where can i find this?
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5...6medium4aq.jpg
how much should i pay? and will i need the 3rd gen tl one or the cl-s one. (i have a 3rd gen tranny)
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5...6medium4aq.jpg
how much should i pay? and will i need the 3rd gen tl one or the cl-s one. (i have a 3rd gen tranny)
Most Honda/Acura CMC will do, but the slave will probably need to match the trans.
01-12-2009, 11:29 AM
#101
Senior Moderator
01-12-2009, 12:11 PM
#102
^^^I dunno but here is some of the info he posted about it. Hope this provides a little more insight. He hasnt had any problems thus far,
Well, you guys can take it or leave it, but here are my observaions and theroies about aftermarket clutches and our flywheels.
I have installed a few spec clutches in our cars and 2nd gen CL-S over the last couple years, have had a couple come back for slipping after a short period of time, I would pull them out and they would be glazed all to hell so my first thought would be that the driver did not break it in properly or was driving poorly, but then I started researching the materials on the failed clutches and talked to a couple friends who race regularly and found a common theme, Kevlar friction material and flywheel finish. It seems that the Kevlar material has a tendancy to heat and melt under high loads causing it to glaze and become "slipery" thus preventing a good grabbing clamp, this was especially bad it there was significant runout in the flywheel (High spots in the contact surface). Below is a pic of a failed Spec stage 2+ clutch install, if you notice on the flywheel you can see where the disc was only in contact with maybe 40% of the surface, the flywheel was cut to Honda spec with only .005" runout max in the surface, but even this was too much for the disc to bed in properly. The second pic is of the kevlar friction material and if you look at especially to outer edge you can see the glazing that occured, once the Kevlar glazes there is no bringing back as the glazed material is very hard and will not wear off unlike semi metallic/carbon friction materials which with carful driving you can wear the top surface and get the clutch to grab again.
Now, how to deal with these issues. Flywheel surface preperation is key, although in the future I will stay away from Kevlar friction materials, flywheel surface prep is very important.
Runout- When going with a hard material clutch it will not want to bed easily so surface runout should be kept to a minimum, I am now cutting my flywheels to within .002" total runout (I have even gotten new flywheels from Honda with as much as .007" of runout, fine for the stock semimetalic material, but not good enough for a carbon or kevlar friction material). Cutting our dual mass flywheels are a bisnatch and it took me quite a while to figure out how to mount them to a rotary table to freeze and level the inner mass, if the inner mass is not properly frozen in place you will end up with chatter and nasty runout of up to .20" or more as the inner mass floats on a bearing and can not only rotate, but woble as much as .080" at the outside edge. Before installing the flywhell take a good stright edge across the upper rim if the flywhell and using eathier and depth gauge or caliper mesure at different spots across the surface if you mave more than a couple thousands differentce across the surface, re-cut it or reject it.
Flywheel surface condition- Machineing instead of grinding, the normal method of flywheel resurfacing in grinding which usuaslly leaves a smooth surface with less than .0005" surface roughness/variation, this is good for soft friction materials, that will wear easily, but for harder materials this will not provide enough roughness to remove the top surface and bed it in. I am now cutting my flywheels with a 2" face mill at 300RPM spindle speed, this leaves a circular surface pattern with .001"-.0015" roughness, this pattern and roughness will help with the intial wear in need to get the harder friction material to bed in. Below are some pics on one I cut this morning, total runout is less than .002" across the entire surface.
Yes the additional surface roughness will remove a bit of the friction surface, but not enough to drasticly reduce overall clutch life.
Hope this helps.
I have installed a few spec clutches in our cars and 2nd gen CL-S over the last couple years, have had a couple come back for slipping after a short period of time, I would pull them out and they would be glazed all to hell so my first thought would be that the driver did not break it in properly or was driving poorly, but then I started researching the materials on the failed clutches and talked to a couple friends who race regularly and found a common theme, Kevlar friction material and flywheel finish. It seems that the Kevlar material has a tendancy to heat and melt under high loads causing it to glaze and become "slipery" thus preventing a good grabbing clamp, this was especially bad it there was significant runout in the flywheel (High spots in the contact surface). Below is a pic of a failed Spec stage 2+ clutch install, if you notice on the flywheel you can see where the disc was only in contact with maybe 40% of the surface, the flywheel was cut to Honda spec with only .005" runout max in the surface, but even this was too much for the disc to bed in properly. The second pic is of the kevlar friction material and if you look at especially to outer edge you can see the glazing that occured, once the Kevlar glazes there is no bringing back as the glazed material is very hard and will not wear off unlike semi metallic/carbon friction materials which with carful driving you can wear the top surface and get the clutch to grab again.
Now, how to deal with these issues. Flywheel surface preperation is key, although in the future I will stay away from Kevlar friction materials, flywheel surface prep is very important.
Runout- When going with a hard material clutch it will not want to bed easily so surface runout should be kept to a minimum, I am now cutting my flywheels to within .002" total runout (I have even gotten new flywheels from Honda with as much as .007" of runout, fine for the stock semimetalic material, but not good enough for a carbon or kevlar friction material). Cutting our dual mass flywheels are a bisnatch and it took me quite a while to figure out how to mount them to a rotary table to freeze and level the inner mass, if the inner mass is not properly frozen in place you will end up with chatter and nasty runout of up to .20" or more as the inner mass floats on a bearing and can not only rotate, but woble as much as .080" at the outside edge. Before installing the flywhell take a good stright edge across the upper rim if the flywhell and using eathier and depth gauge or caliper mesure at different spots across the surface if you mave more than a couple thousands differentce across the surface, re-cut it or reject it.
Flywheel surface condition- Machineing instead of grinding, the normal method of flywheel resurfacing in grinding which usuaslly leaves a smooth surface with less than .0005" surface roughness/variation, this is good for soft friction materials, that will wear easily, but for harder materials this will not provide enough roughness to remove the top surface and bed it in. I am now cutting my flywheels with a 2" face mill at 300RPM spindle speed, this leaves a circular surface pattern with .001"-.0015" roughness, this pattern and roughness will help with the intial wear in need to get the harder friction material to bed in. Below are some pics on one I cut this morning, total runout is less than .002" across the entire surface.
Yes the additional surface roughness will remove a bit of the friction surface, but not enough to drasticly reduce overall clutch life.
Hope this helps.
01-12-2009, 07:59 PM
#103
deal or no deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda...Q5fAccessories
01-15-2009, 11:55 PM
#106
heres another parts list for the noobs
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-116/cl-s-6-speed-transmission-swap-list-638438/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-116/cl-s-6-speed-transmission-swap-list-638438/
01-16-2009, 11:41 AM
#108
Senior Moderator
And for those reasons he stated is why honda says not to try to turn them. They are very difficult and most shops dont know how or wont take the time to figure out how to mount them so that they are machined properly. Finding one thats honest and knows what they are doing may be very difficult and cost more in the end than buying a new one.
01-16-2009, 01:19 PM
#111
Senior Moderator
For what the shifter?
Look under shift lever (62 bucks)
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...catdisplay.jsp
Look under shift lever (62 bucks)
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...catdisplay.jsp
01-19-2009, 10:31 AM
#115
I think you misunderstood my post. I purchased the transmission for thAt price. I'll be posting parts and prices on this thread for other members to see. I can call my guy and see if he has another transmission if you like. How much Are you willing to pay
01-20-2009, 12:12 PM
#116
Phee thanks for the input and the reply to my PM.
I appreciate the sharing of knowledge.
I also I have to say that ,After Reading this post frm the first page it seems like a lot of information has to be updated from the parts list on the first page (u have added other parts since then).
So I think If i understand u right,......
u said u will be reposting a list of all parts used and prices after the install... right ....
also seems that a mix of cl-s 6 parts from an 03 6 speed and the 04+ acura TL will be the best routes for (01-03) cl-s guys.
I appreciate the sharing of knowledge.
I also I have to say that ,After Reading this post frm the first page it seems like a lot of information has to be updated from the parts list on the first page (u have added other parts since then).
So I think If i understand u right,......
u said u will be reposting a list of all parts used and prices after the install... right ....
also seems that a mix of cl-s 6 parts from an 03 6 speed and the 04+ acura TL will be the best routes for (01-03) cl-s guys.
Last edited by poisx7; 01-20-2009 at 12:15 PM.
Thanks