SH-AWD at Mecaglisse Ice/Shiyouji Tokushima Interview
03-06-2007, 03:30 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
SH-AWD at Mecaglisse Ice
This is from the Toronto Star, likely the same event that R&T has an article on. Really more about SH-AWD with peripheral mentions of application to the RL and the RDX/MDX. I will have to try that part about turning off the VSA so you can get the vehicle tail happy. We are supposed to have snow tomorrow, so an empty parking lot might be interesting.
http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/187265
Honda's (rather boastful) Super Handling-AWD system gets an icy workout in Quebec
Mar 03, 2007 04:30 AM
Laurance Yap
Special to the Star
NOTRE DAME DE-LA-MERCI, QUE.–Shiyouji Tokushima was out on a snowmobile. It's been at least 10 years since the chief engineer of Acura's Super Handling-All Wheel Drive system has been in Canada and he's feeling it a little bit at lunch time.
But, given the smile on his face and the way he talks about how he's aching, you know he's happy he's here.
He sits in the chalet of the Mecaglisse rally school, staring out at the cars roaring around three snow-clogged test tracks, smiling. The all-wheel-drive system in the RL, RDX and MDX out there are sort of his babies and they seem to be working very well.
SH-AWD, as we'll call it, is the culmination of almost 20 years of development. Honda first introduced all-wheel drive on the Civic wagon in the late 1980s and we've seen various improvements in the architecture in the CR-V's dual-pump system and in the VTM-4 setup first used in the MDX in 2001.
The "super handling" part (an incongruous bit of boastful naming on the part of a normally very modest company) has been gestating for more than 15 years; it was first shown on the FS-X concept car at the 1991 Tokyo Motor Show and elements of its active torque transfer system were used on the front-wheel-drive Honda Prelude SH that was sold in Canada in the late '90s.
Clearly, for Acura, its all-wheel-drive technology has come of age. Half of its lineup now features SH-AWD as standard equipment. While the CSX, TSX and TL are still front-drive, both of the company's SUVs (the RDX and MDX) as well as its flagship luxury sedan drive all four wheels.
At the Detroit auto show, Acura announced that its next high-performance sports car, previewed by the Advanced Sports Car Concept, will put power from its 400-plus horsepower V10 engine to the ground using a rear-biased variation of the SH-AWD concept.
Even in the snow, even at relatively low speeds, it's clear that SH-AWD was developed by a team of people that really like to drive – and who expect drivers of the vehicles they developed to be the same kind of people.
Ted Klaus, the chief engineer responsible for the new MDX, did 126 laps of the Nurburgring ("it took me about 80 just to learn the thing," he says), an unprecedented step for Acura, especially for an SUV.
While there, he exchanged information and feedback with test-drivers from other manufacturers he encountered, including a Porsche development driver who tried out the MDX and suddenly wasn't so dismissive of it.
A V6 Cayenne, according to Klaus, will do a lap of the 'Ring in about nine minutes; the MDX is right on its tail.
Unlike competing all-wheel-drive systems, SH-AWD only has one differential up front and a pair of electronically controlled clutches at the rear, which makes for a lighter and more economical package (Acura claims the system weighs about 80 kg; Audi's quattro system weighs 35 kg more).
The other main advantage to the two clutch packs at the rear is their ability to actively transfer up to 100 per cent of the rear-axle torque to the outside wheel, which induces some rear-wheel steering and makes Acura's all-wheel-drive vehicles uncommonly manoeuvrable for their size.
It also – should you switch off the stability-control system – makes them tail-happy and responsive to throttle-steering in a way you wouldn't expect.
Whether it's the MDX or the RL or the RDX, you can slide around like a rally ace, confident that the system will shuttle the power to where you need it and, thanks to a torque bias that maxes out at 70 per cent to the rear – maintain the stability you would expect.
Not many owners of these vehicles will be turning off the stability control, but even when it's switched on, SH-AWD's operating logic means that brake and throttle interventions are less frequent and less intrusive than with competing systems such as quattro or BMW's XDrive.
In the end, you have to push pretty hard – harder than you will likely do in the snowy and icy conditions that Acura arranged for us north of Montreal – to notice the nuances of SH-AWD's workings; what you will notice is that you don't notice much at all.
After launching the system in Mexico in 2004, China in 2006 and, with its Japanese launch scheduled for 2008, Acura is a brand on the march.
Its high-tech pitch has worked well with North American luxury customers who grew up playing Nintendo and surfing the Internet; its cars typically feature more electronic content than its competitors.
With the V10-powered sports car on its way soon, Super Handling All Wheel Drive is set to become far more than just a selling feature in Acura's higher-end models; the company hopes it'll mark a major point of differentiation and will be a key motivator for potential buyers.
http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/187265
Honda's (rather boastful) Super Handling-AWD system gets an icy workout in Quebec
Mar 03, 2007 04:30 AM
Laurance Yap
Special to the Star
NOTRE DAME DE-LA-MERCI, QUE.–Shiyouji Tokushima was out on a snowmobile. It's been at least 10 years since the chief engineer of Acura's Super Handling-All Wheel Drive system has been in Canada and he's feeling it a little bit at lunch time.
But, given the smile on his face and the way he talks about how he's aching, you know he's happy he's here.
He sits in the chalet of the Mecaglisse rally school, staring out at the cars roaring around three snow-clogged test tracks, smiling. The all-wheel-drive system in the RL, RDX and MDX out there are sort of his babies and they seem to be working very well.
SH-AWD, as we'll call it, is the culmination of almost 20 years of development. Honda first introduced all-wheel drive on the Civic wagon in the late 1980s and we've seen various improvements in the architecture in the CR-V's dual-pump system and in the VTM-4 setup first used in the MDX in 2001.
The "super handling" part (an incongruous bit of boastful naming on the part of a normally very modest company) has been gestating for more than 15 years; it was first shown on the FS-X concept car at the 1991 Tokyo Motor Show and elements of its active torque transfer system were used on the front-wheel-drive Honda Prelude SH that was sold in Canada in the late '90s.
Clearly, for Acura, its all-wheel-drive technology has come of age. Half of its lineup now features SH-AWD as standard equipment. While the CSX, TSX and TL are still front-drive, both of the company's SUVs (the RDX and MDX) as well as its flagship luxury sedan drive all four wheels.
At the Detroit auto show, Acura announced that its next high-performance sports car, previewed by the Advanced Sports Car Concept, will put power from its 400-plus horsepower V10 engine to the ground using a rear-biased variation of the SH-AWD concept.
Even in the snow, even at relatively low speeds, it's clear that SH-AWD was developed by a team of people that really like to drive – and who expect drivers of the vehicles they developed to be the same kind of people.
Ted Klaus, the chief engineer responsible for the new MDX, did 126 laps of the Nurburgring ("it took me about 80 just to learn the thing," he says), an unprecedented step for Acura, especially for an SUV.
While there, he exchanged information and feedback with test-drivers from other manufacturers he encountered, including a Porsche development driver who tried out the MDX and suddenly wasn't so dismissive of it.
A V6 Cayenne, according to Klaus, will do a lap of the 'Ring in about nine minutes; the MDX is right on its tail.
Unlike competing all-wheel-drive systems, SH-AWD only has one differential up front and a pair of electronically controlled clutches at the rear, which makes for a lighter and more economical package (Acura claims the system weighs about 80 kg; Audi's quattro system weighs 35 kg more).
The other main advantage to the two clutch packs at the rear is their ability to actively transfer up to 100 per cent of the rear-axle torque to the outside wheel, which induces some rear-wheel steering and makes Acura's all-wheel-drive vehicles uncommonly manoeuvrable for their size.
It also – should you switch off the stability-control system – makes them tail-happy and responsive to throttle-steering in a way you wouldn't expect.
Whether it's the MDX or the RL or the RDX, you can slide around like a rally ace, confident that the system will shuttle the power to where you need it and, thanks to a torque bias that maxes out at 70 per cent to the rear – maintain the stability you would expect.
Not many owners of these vehicles will be turning off the stability control, but even when it's switched on, SH-AWD's operating logic means that brake and throttle interventions are less frequent and less intrusive than with competing systems such as quattro or BMW's XDrive.
In the end, you have to push pretty hard – harder than you will likely do in the snowy and icy conditions that Acura arranged for us north of Montreal – to notice the nuances of SH-AWD's workings; what you will notice is that you don't notice much at all.
After launching the system in Mexico in 2004, China in 2006 and, with its Japanese launch scheduled for 2008, Acura is a brand on the march.
Its high-tech pitch has worked well with North American luxury customers who grew up playing Nintendo and surfing the Internet; its cars typically feature more electronic content than its competitors.
With the V10-powered sports car on its way soon, Super Handling All Wheel Drive is set to become far more than just a selling feature in Acura's higher-end models; the company hopes it'll mark a major point of differentiation and will be a key motivator for potential buyers.
03-06-2007, 03:42 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
Basically, this article can be summarized in what I keep saying about SH-AWD:
"it's the shiznit."
The next time we get heavy snow I'll go out to my local mall parking lot, shut off VSA, and try to spin some donuts. Never thought I'd be able to do that in a Honda automobile of any sort other than an S2000.
"it's the shiznit."
The next time we get heavy snow I'll go out to my local mall parking lot, shut off VSA, and try to spin some donuts. Never thought I'd be able to do that in a Honda automobile of any sort other than an S2000.
03-06-2007, 04:00 PM
#3
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Basically, this article can be summarized in what I keep saying about SH-AWD:
"it's the shiznit."
The next time we get heavy snow I'll go out to my local mall parking lot, shut off VSA, and try to spin some donuts. Never thought I'd be able to do that in a Honda automobile of any sort other than an S2000.
"it's the shiznit."
The next time we get heavy snow I'll go out to my local mall parking lot, shut off VSA, and try to spin some donuts. Never thought I'd be able to do that in a Honda automobile of any sort other than an S2000.
03-06-2007, 05:38 PM
#4
AcurAdmirer
For those in Southern climes, unaccustomed to Neuronbob's characterization of the SH-AWD system, "shiznit" is thusly defined in the Urban Dictionary:
SHIZNIT
- Shortened term for "that is the shit, isn't it ?"
"That taco's the shiznit!"
- Expresses extensive emotional satisfaction or glorification of any given noun. Often used by those who lack the vocabulary to express the true essence of the situation.
Other meanings: Shit, fecies, poo, doodoo, dung, crap and excrement.
- Generally "shiznit" can be seen as a last resort when all other means of expression fail.
Hmmm ... "used by those who lack the vocabulary to express the true essence of the situation" ... "last resort when all other means of expression fail". Gee, you'd think a Julliard-trained [see Seinfeld] neurologist might be able to summon up sufficient vocabulary to express himself more elegantly.
(Okay, just giving Bob a hard time.
)
.
.
SHIZNIT
- Shortened term for "that is the shit, isn't it ?"
"That taco's the shiznit!"
- Expresses extensive emotional satisfaction or glorification of any given noun. Often used by those who lack the vocabulary to express the true essence of the situation.
Other meanings: Shit, fecies, poo, doodoo, dung, crap and excrement.
- Generally "shiznit" can be seen as a last resort when all other means of expression fail.
Hmmm ... "used by those who lack the vocabulary to express the true essence of the situation" ... "last resort when all other means of expression fail". Gee, you'd think a Julliard-trained [see Seinfeld] neurologist might be able to summon up sufficient vocabulary to express himself more elegantly.
(Okay, just giving Bob a hard time.
).
.
03-06-2007, 07:58 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
Thanks, Mike, had a long day, needed that laugh.
03-06-2007, 10:31 PM
#6
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,505
Received 836 Likes
on
520 Posts
Article - Shiyouji Tokushima, Chief Engineer of SH-AWD
http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/187265
I got this link from the RDX forum and I am not sure if it has been posted here before, but anyways...this article has some information that I have never read about before and I find it quite interesting. Some highlights are,
- 15-20 years to develope the SH-AWD
- Half of Acura's lineup has SH-AWD as standard feature (I didn't realize that until now)
- The MDX did 126laps of the Nurburgring and it's as fast as a Porsche Cayenne
- SH-AWD is about 80kg, 35kg less than Audi's Quattro (which SH-AWD system is he talking about? the one in RDX, MDX, or RL? The acceleration device in the RL should add some weight too, but it also uses lighter materials, so in the end do they all weight about the same, around 80kg?)
- You must push the car very hard to notice the SH-AWD working (this resolves questions regarding whether the SH-AWD works or not)
- Acura hopes that the SH-AWD will become more than just a selling point, but a "major differentiator and a key motivator" for buyers.
I got this link from the RDX forum and I am not sure if it has been posted here before, but anyways...this article has some information that I have never read about before and I find it quite interesting. Some highlights are,
- 15-20 years to develope the SH-AWD
- Half of Acura's lineup has SH-AWD as standard feature (I didn't realize that until now)
- The MDX did 126laps of the Nurburgring and it's as fast as a Porsche Cayenne
- SH-AWD is about 80kg, 35kg less than Audi's Quattro (which SH-AWD system is he talking about? the one in RDX, MDX, or RL? The acceleration device in the RL should add some weight too, but it also uses lighter materials, so in the end do they all weight about the same, around 80kg?)
- You must push the car very hard to notice the SH-AWD working (this resolves questions regarding whether the SH-AWD works or not)
- Acura hopes that the SH-AWD will become more than just a selling point, but a "major differentiator and a key motivator" for buyers.
03-06-2007, 10:39 PM
#7
Originally Posted by iforyou
- Acura hopes that the SH-AWD will become more than just a selling point, but a "major differentiator and a key motivator" for buyers.
Trending Topics
03-07-2007, 04:25 AM
#8
Instructor
The case needs to be made in terms of what it does for non-inclement weather conditions.
The marketing makes some note of that, but not enough IMHO. It really makes a difference in the dry.
Mind you, I’ve been driving AWD (Subaru/Audi) for over a dozen years, so I already expect what an AWD system does for me in the overall handling and traction characteristics of a vehicle, but I find that the SH-AWD is indeed a step forward in terms of dynamics at high speeds (relative to road conditions) is much improved over the other AWD systems.
And while SH-AWD by itself does not the vehicle make, it is a key feature they need to leverage like Audi did with Quattro.
For instance I never bought an Audi without Quattro and I ignored any Acura without SH-AWD.
The marketing makes some note of that, but not enough IMHO. It really makes a difference in the dry.
Mind you, I’ve been driving AWD (Subaru/Audi) for over a dozen years, so I already expect what an AWD system does for me in the overall handling and traction characteristics of a vehicle, but I find that the SH-AWD is indeed a step forward in terms of dynamics at high speeds (relative to road conditions) is much improved over the other AWD systems.
And while SH-AWD by itself does not the vehicle make, it is a key feature they need to leverage like Audi did with Quattro.
For instance I never bought an Audi without Quattro and I ignored any Acura without SH-AWD.
03-07-2007, 04:47 AM
#9
Instructor
One thing to note about the SH-AWD, is that while current implementations make extensive use of innovative mechanical engineering, much of the strength of the concept comes form the core algorithms for torque transfer and the use of many input vectors to balance the vehicle dynamics for maximum safety and performance.
What that means is that when a Hybrid version of the RL (and other Honda/Acura’s) comes out with all electric or combined Gas/electric motivation to each of the 4 wheels, they will still be able to apply the core SH process to the AWD system.
So for instance, a future Hybrid RL, could have a front mounted V6 (or even a turbo I4) driving fronts and electric motors driving rears, could still gain all the benefits of SH-AWD algorithms.
Oh, and since I’m talking hybrids, I sincerely miss that I was not able to buy one of these this week:
The Honda DualNote
Why do they tease us this way.
What that means is that when a Hybrid version of the RL (and other Honda/Acura’s) comes out with all electric or combined Gas/electric motivation to each of the 4 wheels, they will still be able to apply the core SH process to the AWD system.
So for instance, a future Hybrid RL, could have a front mounted V6 (or even a turbo I4) driving fronts and electric motors driving rears, could still gain all the benefits of SH-AWD algorithms.
Oh, and since I’m talking hybrids, I sincerely miss that I was not able to buy one of these this week:
The Honda DualNote
Why do they tease us this way.
03-07-2007, 05:28 AM
#10
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by iforyou
http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/187265
I got this link from the RDX forum and I am not sure if it has been posted here before, but anyways...this article has some information that I have never read about before and I find it quite interesting. Some highlights are,
I got this link from the RDX forum and I am not sure if it has been posted here before, but anyways...this article has some information that I have never read about before and I find it quite interesting. Some highlights are,
03-07-2007, 09:47 PM
#11
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,505
Received 836 Likes
on
520 Posts
Originally Posted by JonFo
One thing to note about the SH-AWD, is that while current implementations make extensive use of innovative mechanical engineering, much of the strength of the concept comes form the core algorithms for torque transfer and the use of many input vectors to balance the vehicle dynamics for maximum safety and performance.
What that means is that when a Hybrid version of the RL (and other Honda/Acura’s) comes out with all electric or combined Gas/electric motivation to each of the 4 wheels, they will still be able to apply the core SH process to the AWD system.
So for instance, a future Hybrid RL, could have a front mounted V6 (or even a turbo I4) driving fronts and electric motors driving rears, could still gain all the benefits of SH-AWD algorithms.
Oh, and since I’m talking hybrids, I sincerely miss that I was not able to buy one of these this week:
The Honda DualNote
Why do they tease us this way.
What that means is that when a Hybrid version of the RL (and other Honda/Acura’s) comes out with all electric or combined Gas/electric motivation to each of the 4 wheels, they will still be able to apply the core SH process to the AWD system.
So for instance, a future Hybrid RL, could have a front mounted V6 (or even a turbo I4) driving fronts and electric motors driving rears, could still gain all the benefits of SH-AWD algorithms.
Oh, and since I’m talking hybrids, I sincerely miss that I was not able to buy one of these this week:
The Honda DualNote
Why do they tease us this way.
03-17-2007, 09:28 AM
#13
The NJ Area had some snow/ice/freezing rain yesterday. The roads in Central NJ were sheets of ice. At a stop light, its a great feeling to floor it and see the RL take off with no VSA engaged.
SH-AWD is the shiznit.
Now if Acura does what they says, make it RWD biased, then the upcoming 08/09 TL and refreshed RL will definitely have those "car snobs" stop viewing these cars as FWD based.
SH-AWD rocks...
SH-AWD is the shiznit.
Now if Acura does what they says, make it RWD biased, then the upcoming 08/09 TL and refreshed RL will definitely have those "car snobs" stop viewing these cars as FWD based.
SH-AWD rocks...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
joflewbyu2
5G TLX (2015-2020)
105
08-18-2019 10:38 PM
