A co-worker of mine was recently in a car accident that totaled her 1998 Lexus ES300.

We were having a conversation about what her replacement would be as she was shopping. She was predisposed to another Lexus as she said she loved her old one.

She seemed to have her mind already made up on a new ES 350. I suggested that she just look at the RL. It wouldn't cost her anything to just look at it.

I knew she wouldn't.

Well today in a meeting she proudly states that she bought the new ES 350 (big surprise).

I proceeded to congratulate her mentioneing that is it a nice car (it is), and asking her about the coloer and so forth.

She asked me if the RL had keyless entry and start. Yup

She went on to say that she was told that after 1000 miles, Lexus would program her settings for free, but after that it would cost her.

For those unfamiliar, Lexus calls them CBEST settings. THings like which doors unlock (driver only or all four), light settings, etc.

I said, "Really? On mine, I can program those settings myself and change them as often as I wish - by driver". (I couldn't help myself).

She said really, what about..... and she proceeded to rattle off other things. I said, yep. All configurable by the owner. No need to have the dealer do it.

At this point, another co-worker who has a TL was involved in the conversation.

What topped it all off was when I shared what I paid for my RL. The look of astonishment on her face was obvious as I'm sure she paid more than that for her ES, and right off the bat she doesn't have AWD.

Proves my point that few people truly cross shop the car. They're buying the brand.

 

There's one thing the Lexus has that the RL doesn't...

Transmission problems!

 

Go to clublexus and read about it those trannys are horrible. However Lexus has the name so thats how it goes.

 

Indeed.

Sis dropped her beloved GS recently for an RL. Her current gen GS had rattle problems and tranny issues. Similarly, the Avalon LTD in the family is in the shop as we speak...tranny schizophrenia. Two in one family...not looking good.

The good news is sis is convinced the RL is a better ride. Funny, she would not know (or care) how many cylinders or gears...and she feels the RL is superior in ride, fit, finish and interior design.

I am the family trailblazer from Yotas to Hondas!

 

Hmmm...to the public at large:

Infiniti = upscale Nissan
Acura = upscale Honda
Lexus = Lexus

They don't get that a Lexus is just an overpriced Toyota. Unfortunately, the RL/LEGEND only gets a chance to impress now and then. Glad that Tampa, FL is an exception to that general rule.

 

Yes, it's said that Toyota's growth has been so vast and spread over so many lines that quality issues are now showing up. The drop in some quality has not apparently effected opinion yet. It a major concern at Toyota. To get back to their historic quality is an unknown, they are a massive producer now..
I know 2 people with the simpler Corollas, one had the window regulator break, both had interior trim and pieces breaking. THese cars wer 2-3 years old.
Unheard of in a Toyota.

 

It's said that Toyota's growth has been so fast and spread over so many lines that quality issues are showing up. The drop has not apparently effected opinion yet. It a major concern at Toyota. To get back to their historic quality is an unknown, they are a massive producer now..
I know 2 people with the simpler Corollas, one had the window regulator break, both had interior trim and pieces breaking. THese cars wer 2-3 years old.
Unheard of in a Toyota.
Maybe Toyota really is the new GM.

 

That's what happens when you get too big and build too fast. Even if Totota is still putting quality into their manufacturing process, they might be putting too much pressure on their parts suppliers to get parts faster and the quality of those parts is suffering because of it.

 

If I could buy the new RL I would.

 

GoHawks.....

Sigh. Another example of Acura's failure to capture the imagination of the public.

I tell you, Acura needs to hire us AZ members to market the car FOR them!

 

I know that I've gotten down on CL6 in the past for not "selling" the car, but to some extent I have to sympathize with him when people aren't even considering the car in the first place (I believe he did say that in our last debate).

I went on the Lexus website, and the only thing that the ES350 offers over the RL is cooled seats, rain sensing wipers, and memory seat settings for the passenger.

The RL on the other hand offers SH-AWD, and a more sophisticated Nav and BT.

That's not even getting into CMBS or ACC.

Let's not even get into the fact that the RL has a more sophisticated suspension (Double Wishbone vs. MacPherson Struts), but let's face it. Most peole buying an ES aren't interested in handling.

 

GoHawks, your co-worker is an idiot, plain and simple.

 

I wouldn't go that far. She is no different than most of the buying public that has bought into the brand imaging.

She wanted a "Lexus", not necessarily the best car for the money.

 

Like I said, idiot.

Anyone that buys purely based on brand, is an idiot, especially if they do not even bother to explore the other options that are out there.

 

And the thing is there are lots of idiots out there.

 

I was one of those who was agressively shopping for a Lexus ES350 and GS300. Until I test drove the RL. Then, when I got an offer for my 2006 RL for under $40K, it was a no brainer. Get so much more for the same price of the ES350 or pay another 5K for the GS300. The other thing that really turned me off with Lexus....was when I came in for a test drive. They acted like they were doing me a favor or something to sell me a Lexus. They were so rude and very cocky. Btw, I went to 2 different Lexus dealers, and got the same treatment.

I am 110% satisfied with my RL! Love everything about the car!

 

Like noobie and his decision to go with the GS, some people are influenced by the dealer experience at Lexus. While the Acura dealership experience is certainly nothing to write home about, my experience with Lexus has been mixed.

I don't think it's a sign of idiocy to decide you want to own a certain brand of vehicle. If the car fits your budget and you really do like it, then it is an easy decision.

Sometimes there is only so much research and comparison shopping you can put yourself through before you drive yourself crazy and just pull the trigger on something. Some folks just want to drive a nice car and don't want to think about it again.

I'd be overwhelmed picking a digital SLR camera today. And even more overwhelmed picking a flat panel TV of some sort. Without knowing any better, I'd probably pick a Sony. Car shopping probably looks as intimidating to some folks.

Rob144

 

I believe that's the situation with my co-worker. She's never been married. She had a great experience with her old Lexus, and just trusts Lexus again. She was thrilled about the idea of Bluetooth. I on the other hand have experienced the Toyota (Lexus) Bluetooth/Voice Recognition system in my Land Cruiser and can appreciate how much more sophisticated (and usable) the Honda/Acura system is, but if you don't know any better, you're just wowed by the fact that you can answer your phone by pressing a button on your steering wheel.

I admitted myself that I really didn't compare the voice recognition usability when I was comparing the GS to the RL. I had already written off the technology. Imagine my surprise when I found out how usable the technology is.

and I'm a technology geek...

Someone who is just looking for a luxury car isn't going to delve that deeply into it.

 

I'd forgotten about the personalized settings thing with Lexus. Before I got my IS350 last year, I mentioned to the salesman during the test drive that I wouldn't buy ANY car that automatically locked me in as soon as the car started moving (which the test car did).

So when I picked the car up, he had "fixed" that. Well, after a few days I found some other things I wanted changed, and on clublexus I found a checklist of things the dealer can change for you (no charge during the first 1,000 miles). I go back to the dealer and am told the settings had already been changed for me (the door lock thing), and they would have to charge me for further changes. Furthermore, they said they couldn't even change one of the things I wanted different!

Needless to say, I called a meeting of my salesman and the service manager. I told them I had NOT had my settings changed, and that the salesman's changing the door lock routine didn't constitute my exercise of my settings choices. Furthermore, I showed them the list of things that are changeable, and advised the service mgr. that he should educate his service writers, who were apparently ignorant of the choices available. Believe it or not, he asked if he could make a copy of the Lexus document outlining the options!

They of course proceeded to make the changes I wanted - at no charge - and gave me a Lexus ball cap and keychain to make me feel better.

But, really.

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I have heard one lady who bought an RX and the transmission went out and she wasn't happy. But the Lexus customers I speak with love the brand because of how they are treated once they are at the dealership. It is not just a 'brand' thing it is also how 'upscale' they truly are.

 

Except when you what your settings personalized.

 

If this is true, I guess the free car washes for life and free loaner cars and upscale dealerships compensate.

 

It says:

Your first LPS modifications are complimentary. After 1,000 miles, a small fee may apply. For this reason, we recommend you drive your vehicle for a while before requesting any LPS adjustments.


I suspect this is something where if a person comes in often then the "management reserves the right to refuse service" kind of thing.

 

Well my co-worker was told that she'll be charged.

Interesting.

But then you get the RL that is fully user-customizable. Then again, I suspect most RL drivers don't even know how to get into the MID to make those changes.

 

To be honest with you I did not know the Lexus settings were so difficult to alter. The RL is not that difficult to do. I wonder how many Acura salespeople even tell them there as settings in the MID.

 

My Acura dealer does free car washes for life and gives me free loaners any time I need one (provided I give them advance notice).

The dealership (the building itself) isn't that important to me, but it's nice and my dealer provides a big-screen TV, sofas and easy chairs, wireless internet, a PC if you don't have a laptop, designer coffees and teas, free bottled water, muffins and bagels in the morning and fresh-baked cookies in the afternoon. Oh, and great little mints. LOL. That's enough to make me happy.

As for the "Lexus Experience", believe me it's not what it used to be. I was one of the first to buy in 1989 (the first LS400), and it was really great. Two more LS's and an RX and an IS later, I can say with authority it has become a lot more like everyone else. And that's with 3 different dealers.

I'm not nearly as impressed with Lexus dealers as I used to be!

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Probably not that many. As I mentioned before, I see quite a few RLs on the road, and when ever I see one where the driver is holding the phone to their ear, I wonder if they even are aware of BT.

 

There is also the DVD and the OwnerLink website to assist RL owners. I would expect Lexus does also?

Frankly, I was so pumped to get my RL and drive, the salesrep did a 1.5 hour demo, but assured me he would walk me through it again after I had some time with the car. He also advised me to review the DVD and OwnerLink website at my leisure.

I think MOST people are so excitied to get the keys and go, all they hear is and 'sign here'. How many 'enthusiasts' here even post with questions found in the manual? We demand a lot from our vehicles and many people make little effort to understand them!

Even with the issues my sis had with her GS, the Lexus dealer was stellar (and he is owed and Oscar for acting sincere & sympathetic).

My Acura dealer has be great (although not as polished as Lexus). I realize that is not a consistent norm.

 

My dealer gives free car washes with service, but on occasion I have popped in and had my car washed during the winter months. Not sure if they regularly do it or only because I'm on my 3rd Acura and I have a great relationship with the service department.

Loaners are free as long as their scheduled. They have TSXs, TLs, a couple RDXs, an MDX, and one RL.

The MDX and RL are usually reserved for owners of those vehicles. In the two times I had to drop off my car for service (spoiler installed and a door handle replaced), I was given a choice of either a RDX, MDX or RL. The first time I chose the RL, the second time I drove the new MDX. Never have tried the RDX yet.

My dealer also has free bottled water, Starbucks, bagles and doughnuts, free wireless and a couple PCs with internet access available, along with satellite TV.

I swear that they rival many Lexus dealerships.

 

Well the difference is that some Lexus settings CAN ONLY be performed by the dealer, as opposed to the MID for the RL.

 

Ditto with my dealership. The lounge area is small, and not as living room like as the Lexus dealer. But as long as the service remains attentive, I am happy.

 

Another interesting thing regarding LPS for Lexus.

My Land Cruiser allows me to customize a few settings such as the power door lock functions. Ironically if you have an LX (Lexus version of the LC), you have to go to Lexus to have them program the changes.

So if you're a Toyota owner, you are given the ability to change the settings yourself, but if you spend more for the Lexus version, Lexus has to do it for you, and will do you the favor of charging you for it if you change your mind later.

 

Some of the replies in this thread kill me and plainly reek of Acura fanboyism (ie Acura is so great and people should get an Acura cuz I said so) and those doing it are BITCHING about people being akin to"lexus fanboys"...so yeah, go be a hypocrite and expect anyone with an ounce of logic and objectivity to put value in what you say...typical human mentality I guess.

I love the shit here how a person who chooses a Lexus simply does because of the name. Yep, Lexus has NO TRACK RECORD of a quality product. NONE. The LS460 owns the luxury division but hey, just an overpriced POS that sells cuz it is a Lexus.

Oh and to say Lexus models are just overpriced Toyotas...YEP that is it. Putting acura aside, what full luxury line offers better value than Lexus? BMW? Nope. MB? Nope. Audi? Nope.

Hey, I love my RL, think ANYONE in the market for a luxury sedan should check it out and think it is a better deal than the GS & IS (the two most recent Lexus models I have driven) but to go and rag on Lexus like they produce junk and simply sell based off the name is outright asinine.

Oh and funny to have people try and imply Lexus quality is inferior now. It does seem like they have had a few issues recently but quit trying to act like Acura doesn't have their QC issues. There are about 56 trillion RL TSBs and seems to be an a/c malfunction issue for the 05 model which hopefully I never experience.

I would love to jump into the mind of people who have the urge to rag on a competing product, especially when the competing product is the market leader. I see it all the time in various areas and it blows my mind how people can be so dumb like that.

Oh yeah...there are many Acura/honda diehards here who buy the brand regardless so how are they diff from someone (like the co-worker) who wants to stick in the same brand? How is being loyal to Acura OK but loyal to Lexus is just being an idiot?

Humans....

 

Undies in a bit of a bunch?

Well for the record, my point of this thread wasn't to rag on Lexus. I was merely pointing out the experience of my co-worker, who seems to have later realized that there were options besides her blindly purchasing a Lexus.

I came very close to buying a GS. I think it's a beautiful car, but I just liked the RL better.

As for Lexus building crap, I don't think anyone said that, they were just pointing out the recent QC issues that they're experiencing.

Do you want to see blind loyalty? GO over to CL and ask "Should I buy an RL or a GS?". Actually there is such a thread there from a way back.

You'll find more than a few posts along the lines of "Acura is crap", or "Dude it's a Lexus, need I say more?".

 

Americans are the most brand loyal people on earth.

 

Rob! Take a pill! I think you're reading more into this than is there.

It'll be okay - just get some sleep.

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