phins2rt

Holy crap!! Can Acura continue to produce this car at those volume levels? This car is getting more exclusive by the month.

phins2rt

^^^^^
Never mind my previous post. For some reason I had it in my head that last month they sold ~700 RLs, but it was only 433. So I thought the drop in sales was much worse than it was.

neuronbob

CL6

I think 2 07 RLs have been delivered here so far. Maybe 3.

GoHawks

I have seen several on the roads around here. You can easily tell by the missing "sharkfin".

Mokos23

I've seen a few RL's too, but of course not as much as TL's, TSX's, and MDX's.

neuronbob

I'm lucky to see one a week outside of the two I know of in my hospital parking lots.

jhr3uva90

Acura has no assembly lines, Honda does. To make matters worse, the RL assembly lines are in Japan. I hope they do adjust the assembly lines, though.

I wonder how the car is selling elsewhere in the world. It will take strong combined global sales to keep the Legend/RL alive.

How's the rest of the luxo market doing?

TampaRLX-SH

There is one other RL in my office parking garage. I had lunch with this senior director last week. She asked me how I liked my RL, and of course I told her it was the finest vehicle I have yet owned. I did not get all puppy excited, but told her I really look forward to my daily commute and somehow this car has made my formerly frustrating commute something I really enjoy.

She was quite puzzled. She stated she cannot figure out all of the features. And like some critic reviews she claimed some things did not work properly. When I queried her on what was not working, each and every one was simply her not having settings configured properly ('my map thing is too far away!'). It turned out she did not have the zoom in / zoom out set properly. When I explained how to do it (interface dial AND voice command), her jaw dropped into the tofu psuedo food she was eating. "You can adjust it by voice command!???" Now mind you the conversation also included how awful her Prada Shoes get scuffed (umm..they are shoes), how her PALM Treo was too complicated, and how her Eco Drive Citizen Watch was too complicated to adjust the time for daylight savings (it does this automatically).

Next we discussed a system enhancement I am researching for her user group. After all the acrobatics of how inflexible the current application was, I determined it was simply User Error & improper training. Yet she was convinced it was a 'programming error' as she assumed the RL was defective.

It my summation, I think the RL is too inteligent for a majority of drivers capable of the cost of ownership. With that type of mentality making judgments on this stellar automobile, I would hope she spends her next 50K bonus on Mercedes or BMW an a slew of scuffless Pradas.

TSX69

I guess reducing price/features did not help sales. I hope the refresh is major (like the current Accord) or they use a 4 year life cycle on this one.

Here are the other cars in the market courtesy of Incendiary from ClubLexus:
"5-series" 3482
E-Class 3053
"M" 1961
"GS" 1563
"STS" 1472
A6/S6 893
S80 580
RL 395
"9-5" 348
S-type 276

TampaRLX-SH

I have yet to get official production numbers from the plant as Honda tends to be pretty tight lipped. The unofficial metrics I have been collecting have been approx:

7000 US & Canada
500 South America
450 UK
1000 Greater Europe
300 Russia
150 Scandinavia
1200 Australia & New Zealand
3500 Japan
1000 China
250 SE Asia
500 Middle East & India

That is near 16000 units from a single plant 2 years after introduction. I personally don't think that is shabby compared to other premium vehicles on annual production. Granted, Acura projected to sell much more in North America, but Honda does seem to be meeting expected sales in the global market elsewhere. I was told the plant has slowed, but it was at peak in the latter part of 2005 & early 2006 when the vehicle was newly introduced. This likely swamped the lots with the surplus inventory several here got to take advantage of in the price adjustments offers (myself included). All models tend to drop off after 2 years on the market and the premium sedan market is dropping as a whole. These numbers are strickly word of mouth and may be way off, but more than half I have been able to find supporting info on sales volumes in various global markets.

Just taking a broader view, even if we still have higher expectaions.

JonFo

Well I took my first short test drive in the RL the other night.

Not bad at all, reminds me of the 2002 Audi A6 2.7T Sport I used to have, except a bit quieter and less harsh (I’d expect an A-Spec would be better comparo against my old A6)
Visibility not quite a good as I would want, those thick A pillars having the majority of the blame.

Love the interior, absolutely no complaints there. And man, the techno-gadgetry is what’s got me hooked now. That’s first class.
If only the audio was by ML… , but it still sounds OK.

Have yet to validate the ‘noise cancelation’ part of the feature set, as that’s a big deal for me.

So things I’d like to see different hasn’t really changed: a choice of powerplants, with either Diesel or hybrid (anyone remember the Honda Dual-Note?) in the mix.

However, given the slim sales numbers, it actually looks like fewer choices is what we will get.

neuronbob

Acura as a whole sold 7.1% fewer cars (YTD) than last year. The RL's 44% loss in sales is consistent with what's been going on since sales began their dive in the early summer last year. The fact is, the car is a flop and only Honda owners and the few who realize what a deal the car is are buying. They blame bad weather and yet the M still sold nearly 2k copies in February.

The $3500 incentive is back on the RL, according to folks I know. I'm willing to bet you can get a base model for under $40k now in some parts of the country, so that it's actually competing with MSRP of the TL-S.

I don't mean to be negative but...
Acura's unimaginative marketing (and I mean more than just advertising!) not just of the RL, but also its other cars, is going to kill it. They currently depend far too much on Honda owner loyalty and too little on bringing in new people to the brand.

At the rate things are going, the RL will be killed off, much like Infiniti finally killed the even worse-selling Q45. Infiniti decided they couldn't compete in the $50k+ sedan space and quit. Maybe it's time for Acura to do the same if they are unwilling to spend the resources to market properly.

tasdisr

[The $3500 incentive is back on the RL, according to folks I know. I'm willing to bet you can get a base model for under $40k now in some parts of the country, so that it's actually competing with MSRP of the TL-S.]


I hope you are right about the incentive. I have been wanting an RL since driving one a week ago and that may make it a deal too good to pass up! Love my TL but the RL is sooooo nice!!

neuronbob

My sources are rarely wrong but I hope they are right on this.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2672

And believe me, I LOVED (and still love) the TL. It's almost comical, though, that I'm modding up my RL even more than I did my TL (see sig).

tasdisr

[QUOTE=neuronbob]My sources are rarely wrong but I hope they are right on this.


I checked Edmunds this morning and they have the dealer to factory incentive listed
as being from 3/1 through 4/30. Time for my wife to decide whether she wants my
TL or not!

jhr3uva90

This is good info, thanks! Good to see that the RL/Legend is doing okay worldwide.

starmanj

I have my 5th RL, probably my last. Their engineers have been slipping in quality and technology. The GPS was groundbreaking 8-9 years ago, but it's the same darn GPS all this time later, badly dated, slow, poor graphics. My GPS also fails to display traffic in Boston, dealer doesn't know why (I understand a lot of RL's have this problem, must swap out radio). Finally, the Honda dolt who designed a system that won't play external music players without the horribly designed Music Link $500 option-- my old Acura at last allowed me to use a cassette adapter to play my MP3's. Obviously FM transmitter isn't an option if you have good ears.

neuronbob

While I know the RL (especially the 2005) has issues and I'm happy to point them out, I have to disagree with you on the navi. The Honda/Acura navis are still the best out there IMHO. I've played with others and the only one that compares in terms of ease of use is in an Audi. Others may have better graphics but the ease of use wins.

Acura addressed the mp3 issue by placing an mp3 port in the center console (where it belongs) of 2007 RLs. You are right, MusicLink is a pile of poop in terms of its function. Sound quality is great, but I want to use my iPod to change playlists on the fly without installing software. I just run mine in random album mode.

psteng19

Agreed on your post except I don't think Infiniti is giving up on the Q.
It's being redesigned from what I hear.

jhr3uva90

Acura doesn't have the power to kill the RL; it is Honda Motor Corporation's (Japan) baby. On another thread, worldwide production numbers are listed for the RL/Legend. They aren't great, but they are probably enough to keep the RL/Legend alive. The only question is whether Acura (basically a North American entity) has the power to block the car from being sold in North America.

Personally, I don't think Acura promotes the RL well because they didn't want the car in the first place.

wstr75

16,000 cars per year X $35,000/car = $560,000,000 (0.56 Billion dollars). I'd say 560 million bucks a year is not too shabby for a car that is also the low volume field test platform for Honda/Acura's new technology stuff. Sounds like a nifty business plan. Sell in low volume. Don't spend much on advertising. Get a feel for potential field problems with a low volume, field correctable car without risking the company's auto jewels (Civic, Accord, TSX, TL, MDX, Pilot) and still make some profit on the car.

neuronbob

Which makes them unimaginative. They don't, or won't, see the potential of this car. It's truly sad when customers can see potential where the manufacturer can't.

TampaRLX-SH

I believe that was exactly Honda's strategy. Unfortunately Acura expected and projected much higher volumes for the RL version. Even Honda exec's admit the RL sales are a disappointment in the North American market. But how much of that was due to Acura's swelled head on projected sales and genius marketing?

I would only counter that Honda does very intelligent marketing of the Legend in its global markets. The ads promote features, benefitsand Honda's safety, greener, balanced approach to automobiles.

jhr3uva90

Also, take into account that the RL/Legend is based on Honda's global midsize platform, which reduces manufacturing and development costs. So Honda doesn't have to sell as many units of the RL to make as much profit, because the expenses of developing and manufacturing the current version is less than the precedding version.

Yes, I'm sure Honda and Acura are both disappointed with RL sales, but I don't see them being so worried that Acura is going to do much about it. Acura is essentially a marketing company (no engineers or plants) that isn't marketing this car that well, in my opinion.

TampaRLX-SH

Yes, Acura is primarily rebranding...common in the automotive industry. But Acura does have a design studio which produces models intended for the North American market. They can design thier own models, but American Honda essentually builds them. The RL was not designed by Acura, whereas the RDX and MDX were. They ARE getting the focus of Acura marketing. Fortunately the TSX sells well, because it is also not an Acura design. It is a rebadged global Accord. And another oddity in this assymetry between Honda and Acura is that the TL was designed to be a North American product, and it is not marketed in most global markets EXCEPT it is being exported to China!

The Acura business model has more twists and turns than a road beckoning for some SHAWD.

jhr3uva90

The Toyota/Lexus business model is much more straightforward, that's for sure!

VTEC Racer

Is that charts numbers for North America correct? I'm fairly certain that North America has sold more than 7,000 RL's in the past two years. It was only a few months ago that the RL was still selling in the 1,000+ units a month range from the time of its debut. I believe the number must be higher than that.

Mokos23

I think Honda should hire different marketers for the Honda and Acura divisions

TampaRLX-SH

Those figures are indicative of just the past year (and after the intial sales volumes peaked as any new model does).

Kaiserseal

I have a friend with a Jag. I find myself staring at it, just a beautiful shape. The car screams look at me, and most people do. Mechanically it is the worst car she ever owned, and she is ready to lease a new one. The only kind thoughts I have had about the RL's looks are when I thought it was the redesigned accord. I know many of you like the, "Conservative" shape, but more people want to appear sucessful in a high priced luxary car. If Acura reskined this car pretty, it would sell well. Like a fine suit, people want to look good. Putting such a fine car in a paper bag, anonomous skin is a crime.

jhr3uva90

Jags generally sell even worse than Acuras. If the RL is a failure, then the S Type is a MAJOR failure. Rumors are that Ford is trying to sell off Jaguar like they just sold Aston Martin.

The RL's styling is similar to both the Mercedes CLK and previous-generation S-Class. What's missing are round headlights and a 3-pointed star. The star is what luxury-brand drivers REALLY want, or at least a funny-looking L on the grill. It is all about the brand!

TampaRLX-SH

I know I am a minority in the car world, but I love the RLs styling. And I have grown to appreciate the subtle details more than trendy flashy design. I believe the RL will wear well with age and transition the trendy styling changes.

Many people find it too conservative. Are there Honda family styling cues? Yepper. But tell me why is it OK for BMW, Mercedes, SAAB, Volvo, etc to have models with nearly cloned stying details but the RL is criticized for acknowledging Honda family styling cues (after all the RL is a rebadged Honda Legend). And is Honda not a conservative company?

As for the similarities to the Accord? Well yep, 4 doors, 4 wheels and a steering wheel. The TL actually is a thinly styled, extra content Accord. If I want to find styling similarities, I think a Scion tC coupe has more RL styling similarities than an Accord and it is 2 doors and the opposite side of the automobile product spectrum.

If I were to buy a car solely on styling, and admittingly that is usually a top attraction, I would be driving flashy sheetmetal with little regard for the substance beneath the sheetmetal (and aluminum in the RL's case!).

The RL impresses me more than its skin alone or the badge on the grille. But isn't that the world we live in? I'll love driving my RL much longer than I could ever hold a conversation with Paris Hilton. At least the RL can converse in complete sentences.

kirbyflorida

You have stated all of this so well, I completely agree.
Who ever said like an Accord does not know much about cars.
Let's see, aluminium body parts, SH-AWD, carbon shaft, alum sub frame, alum suspension parts, alum brake calipers, 300 hp, active HID's, voice activated Nav and more, fit and finish is another level or 3 better, sooo much more, pleeeese.

neuronbob

OK. How can the RL look like an Accord?

I don't get it. Maybe I need to smoke some crack to figure it out, LOL.



Does not equal

TampaRLX-SH

I think I see it in the fuel filler door.

jhr3uva90

Some people are detail oriented and some are not. People who are not detail oriented think the RL looks just like an Accord. They also need a badge to tell a Lexus LS from a Mercedes.

Personally, I've gotten lots of compliments on my RL. I think the standard RL needs a little seasoning, like a spoiler or splash guards. After that, the car looks good to me!

kappa821

i am having a rough time telling the difference of the cars.......lets see 4 wheels check 4 tires check 4 doors check yup same car

they have nothing in common

lland

When I see a car in the distance that I think may be an RL, more often than not, it turns out to be a Toyota Solara.





LL

shepsan

Some people are never satisfied; and, maybe that’s good. On the other hand, there are people like me who, when they find that right fit, they are more than satisfied.

With only one exception, the Acura brand of automobiles fit me to a “T.” I have owned Acura RL model years 1997, 1999, 2000 and 2005 and found each vehicle to be luxurious, on the cutting edge of technology, stylish and comfortable. I NEVER HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THEM.

My ownership of Acura was quite different than my ownership of Audi, BMW or Mercedes. It was also extremely different than my ownership of the so-called American luxury cars. The European and American cars ALL had problems.

The fit and finish on my Cads and Lincolns left a lot to be desired. The constant breakdowns of integral devices kept me going back and forth to the dealership for repairs.

The European cars required frequent mechanical attention and at a prohibitive cost. Having 7500 mile maintenance on my BMW 750 almost required a loan from the bank.

The Acura became my favorite brand of automobile because it simply proved to be the best when all aspects of my automobile ownership through the years were evaluated.

I mentioned that I have only one criticism of the Acura brand; there is no 8. This might seem to be an immature criticism since the Acura 6 is such a fine engine. Yet, I am one of those who thrill to the sound and power of a high performance 8.

I sold my 2005 RL to a private party for the same amount of money I paid for it a year earlier. I took that money, added to it and bought a 2006 M45. If the M45 were the M35, I would say that it did not quite match my former RL in overall quality. However, the M45 engine is a whole other thing.

So to you who complain about RL sales, consider that regardless of what other’s choose to buy, in this man’s opinion, the RL is the finest 6 made in Japan, Europe or America.