AnthraciteTypeS

Nice Brian, is that pillar custom? I've seen one or two before, but they are rare. Did you make that or have it made?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yes, it was custom made by a member on this site. His name is nexson(not sure if that is spelled right. Might be 2 x's). He is still on the site and makes custom parts, but he has a 4g tl now. I bought mine from spoolinspoon. He also made one for civicdrvr.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I was able to order the bushings from heeltoe for 110 shipped. I think he might of had these left over from when he installed just the compliance bushings on their project tsx.

If you want to buy them email them. I cannot confirm fitment yet tho.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

nice gauge pod, always liked the stealthy frog setups. But you're adding weight to your car

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully they will fit. It will be interesting to see how the caster angle #'s adjust, if at all, after the install. Since, one would think, with the install of these the inner LCA bushes will now have NO flexion associated with the arm, as they did with rubber OEMs, at that point of connection to the subframe.

TacoCodeRed

after reading the build on the first page I became pissed for you at all the trouble you went through with dickholes on the highway and at the shop. =/

Hopefully you have had better luck since then.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I don't like adding weight but some weight is worth it. Like my stiffy mount, floor plate, under-bracing, roll bar, etc.

Hmm. Not sure about caster. Noise could also be an issue. Anyone else have input on this?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I have been trying to research caster. I have been reading how for honda/acura vehicles caster is not adjustable.

Here is a quote from honda tuning:
"Caster is somewhat built into the chassis and is non-adjustable on a typical honda."

Wish I could get my questions answered but they seem to always go unanswered. Guess ill call my mechanic and ask him.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Trying to search for caster info on Internet isn't very fun. So much misinformation floating around.

So I have read that you can adjust caster by adding or removing washers on the radius rods. Other people say a camber kit lets you adjust caster slightly. People say on older Hondas they would swap upper control arms from left to right(right one on left side). This would give positive caster.

Someone with a tsx said the car comes from factory with 3 degrees of caster built in. Would the cl be the same way?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

According to my last alignment, I have 3.3 degree of caster on front left and 3.2 degree on front right. Wonder if the spherical bushings will affect that. Guess there is only one way to find out. Be the Guinee pig like normal.

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

When I had my car up on the lift installing the front camber arms I was told I don't have a caster adjustment ( I think thats what he said) .

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I was looking at a way to adjust caster, it would require new radius rods though. Im probably pulling the engine out of my CL and dropping it into either a TL or an Accord sedan since theres no point having two coupes. My idea should help all three chassis'.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

This is true for the 2G CL/TL. The Helms has the procedure as follows:

Caster Adjustment
Caster angle can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing the number of the adjusting shims. Remove and install the radius rod each time the caster angle is adjusted.
1) Raise the front of the vehicle, and make sure it is securely supported.
2) Remove the self-locking nut on the end of the radius rod.
3) Remove the flange bolts at the radius rod on the lower arm, and remove the radius rod.
4) Adjust the caster angle by increasing/decreasing the adusting shims.
Note these items during adjustment:
-Do not use more than two adjusting shims.
-One adjusting shim changes the caster angle by 35` and the caster angle can be adjusted by 1 degree 10` maximum.
-One adjusting shim is 3.2mm (0.13in.) in thickness.
5) After the adjustment, install the radius rod onto the lower arm, and tighten the flange bolts.
6) Tighten the new self-locking nut to the specified torque.

The reason the caster can be adjusted, theoretically, of course, is because the rubber on the OEM inner bushes allow for a little flexing at the subframe when the lower arm mounting bolt runs through it and is properly torqued. In my post above, when I mentioned it would be interesting to see how the caster adjustment would present after installing the Heeltoe solid bushes is because now the LCA's would jut out, at a fixed position, reducing/eliminating lateral play, now that the rubber OEMs have been replaced with the solid bushes. Any fore or aft movement/adjustment in relation to the caster from the radius rod would need to be scrutinized because of the now fixed position of the LCA at the subframe. The last thing you need is to blow out/bend the connection flanges at the subframe due to increased pressure from a fixed connection. I could be very wrong though.

brian6speed, unfortunetly it will be a 'guinea pig' situation for these if you proceed forward to recognized any benefits in firming up the front suspension vs. any pitfalls in getting caster within normal limits for proper handling.

When I replaced the radius rod bushes back in Aug 2011, my driverside caster came in at 2.9 and the passenger side caster 3.5.

The alignment tech stated that you want .5 of a degree more caster on the passenger side to account for the crown in the road. Otherwise, the car would tend to pull to the right.

Hope this helps.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Let me know what you come up with. Are they adjustable radius rods?

I was thinking tho if my caster is at 3 degrees stock without adjusting it, wouldn't my caster be the same with the spherical bushings? What caster would be ideal for street/auto-x, track use?

I think I prefer my caster equal on both sides. I don't adjust for the crown in the road.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

All great questions above. Consider this, for instance, regarding the Helms procedure above. In 2), right after the car is supported securely, the first thing the instructions state to do is to remove the self-locking nut at the front of the RR as it is housed in the front beam. This step releases all the 40 lbf-ft torque pressure exerted in compressing the RR bushing(s) as it relates to the 3-point connected geometry of the front suspension affecting caster, with the exception of the upper and lower BJ's at the knuckle:
1. front of the RR, at the self locking nut
2. the heavy flange bolt connection at the rear of the RR to the LCA
3. and finally, the inner LCA connection to the rear beam via the lower arm mounting bolt.

By removing the self-locking nut at the front, the pressure is released from the LCA to facilitate the removal of those heavy bastard flange bolts at the rear of the RR. This relaxes the 3-point connected geometry of the front suspention, especially at the inner LCA.
So, now if one replaces the inner rubberized OEM LCA bushes with the solid Heeltoe ones, they will move up/down as normal; however, once the lower arm mounting bolt is torqued to 47lbf-ft and flattened against the connection flanges of the subframe, the LCA will now be fixed in a line dependant on the outer flat suface of the inner sleave of the bush with very little flexability.

The question is: How significant will this line/fixed connection be and will it have an effect on your ability to get an acceptable caster angle after torqueing the front RR self-locking nut back to 40lbf-ft?

Furthermore, that's why the Helms depicts a diagram of the proper positioning of the two different sized RR bushings for front and rear as they sit in the front beam. If one gets them reversed, by accident, it will have an affect on the caster; which inturn, is only discovered after all of the hard work has been completed, upon an alignment when the machine spits out bizarre caster numbers. Ask civicdrvr.

Consult with the folks at your shop. They will be able to discern whether there will be any problems going forward. It's alot of work to get the LCA's out/in. Or to adjust the caster with shims if need be.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Just a thought, In the picture Heeltoe provides for the bushings in question, it's hard to tell if Fastline puts a rubber cushion between the sleave and the outer housing. If there is rubber there then all of the above discussion is negated.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I remember reading that the compliance bushings are not sealed, but the 2 smaller bushings are sealed. I believe that is the black you are seeing.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Have you removed your brake dust sheilds ?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

No, but they don't weigh much.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Not much progress lately. Build is pretty much on hold till I make up my mind on clutch.

Bushings came in. These look like quality parts.


Ordered some fasteners to replace oem with stainless. Also bought some aluminum to make spacers/brackets with.


Here are some good sites I use for fasteners/metal parts.
www.boltdepot.com
www.fastener-warehouse.com
www.downstarinc.com
www.mcmaster.com

There was a J's racing c-pillar bar for the 6th gen accord coupe on sale on . I wanted one before but they are rare and hard to find. I bought it, but upon receiving it I realized it comes up more than 2 inches short of our c-pillar. Not sure why it would be so off considering our rear windshields have same part numbers. Maybe it was made to use over plastic pillar covers? Not sure. It weighs only 3 lbs, my other pillar bar weighs 7 lbs.


I saw a AIT carbon fiber roof spoiler for a 6th gen accord coupe on sale on also. I looked up our rear windshield part numbers. CL is 73211-S3M-A00. Accord is 73211-S82-A00. I bought it just for the heck of it and to see if it will fit. Haven't received it yet tho.

Here are some pics courtesy of the groupbuy thread on for it years ago.




With my current mirror setup I have a slight issue with the passenger mirror not sticking out enough for my seating position and being partially blocked from my view.

I was trying to think of a way to fix this besides making my other custom panels. I decided to make a spacer out of aluminum. It was a pain using just a dremel, sand paper and a drill. Not sure how much this will help, still need to test drive and see.

Here is the view from my seat. You can see part of the mirror is blocked and that I also added an extra mirror to the windshield for now atleast for safety.


Here is the spacer I made. Would still require black paint. Might need to make a thicker one.




I also plan on posting a for sale thread in the next few weeks. Gonna sell all my spare parts so I can fund my build.

CL-Future

Nice job. I sure wish I had a garage to work on my car

Which clutches are you trying to decide between?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I take the garage for granted. It is nice to have especially with the heated floors.

cm stage 3
excelerate stage 3- would be guinee pig tho
oem
oem with aasco flywheel

One of those 4 options most likely.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I noticed on other sites tl, accord, and tsx owners are using the spec clutch and happy with it. If you look at their website they offer an aluminum flywheel for the tl and accord, but no flywheel is listed for the cl ofcourse. Could I just use the flywheel for the tl or accord? Could I use the aasco flywheel with it?

Makes me almost want to just buy a different car

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Looks like some porsche owners are using spec clutches with aasco flywheels so maybe that will work.

Someone bought a spec kit for the cl many years ago and it was just a repainted stock pp. People are saying that they have upped their game and the new pp are solid and not just painted oem, but that is for other cars, not 03 cl.

So even if the aasco flywheel will work then I have to wonder whether the pp will just be repainted stock or not. Sigh.

CM-needs modification to fit properly
XLR8- has no testing woud be quinee pig
spec + aasco-guinee pig yet again
oem + aasco - not sure about this setup long term(sprung or not?)
oem-only option guaranteed to fit/function properly.

So many bad choices and no good choices.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

My car, compared to yours regarding weight, is a big fat pig. I have the stock wheels with HEAVY BFG KDW's. I'm on my second OEM clutch with the original flywheel and it performs quite adequately with the HBP & S/Cer. The second clutch currently has 75K on it.

Now, I'm just waiting for my differential bearings to get a little bit worse so that I can have the tranny rebuilt. At that time, I will reinstall a New OEM clutch, pressure plate and Fly wheel. Why you may ask? Because they work for me and I do not want to lose the stock feel at the clutch pedal. I'm only 10K shy of having 100K on my S/Cer with only one blower oil change since the install in Jan 2005.

Your car, on the the other hand, is QUITE light with all of the pain staking weight reduction performed. The OEM clutch should be more than adequate for the engine at its current power level. Make the decision EASY, go with the OEM stuff, or maybe just lighten the flywheel, problem solved, move on to the next Mod.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I wish the decision was that easy for me. Been debating this decision for years now. Just seems kind of silly to upgrade everything but the clutch/flywheel.

Then you have the weight loss and faster revs from lightweight flywheel, but I am worried about using the lwfw because it is not sprung and I have no idea what ill effects that will cause down the line to the tranny etc.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is what has me concerned about using an unsprung lightweight flywheel with stock clutch.

Originally Posted by Hi speed View Post
"The clutch in the TL is strange. It uses an unsprung clutch disc ( no springs in the clutch) and a sprung or dampened flywheel. If you want to go light weight flywheel, you need a sprung clutch disc and if you want to use the stock disc, you need to use the stock flywheel.
I ran the stock clutch with the supercharger and changed to a more aggressive clutch disc and stock flywheel and pressure plate when I installed the turbo. The disc I'm running now is a P2R 6 puck, that will chatter from a stop a little and has a more aggressive engagement. I have learned to keep it pretty smooth, but many would not be happy with such an aggressive disk.

The company I will be using for my new clutch setup is Excelerate ( a vendor here on the site). He has some nice kits with lightweight flywheels and very streetable clutch discs combined with higher preload pressure plates. Even stage 1 kits hold quite a bit of TQ. I think Stage 1 starts at around $1300 for disc, LW flywheel, and pressure plate."

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I understand. It's important to make the right decision. Heck, it's no small job yanking out the tranny, installing the new gear, then putting it all back in. Then to find out the pedal/clutch does not actuate correctly, or whatever, when the car is on the ground.

Yeah, I compromised here as well and just have the UR lightweight crank pulley. Revs come up pretty quick with this even with the OEM duel mass flywheel. I know they would be quicker, though, with a lwfl.

The aasco one should be good, just make sure it has that required trigger for the crank sensor at the tranny side for the CL-S6.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The AIT cf roof spoiler for 6th gen accord arrived today. It does not fit. Just another disappointment. Think I'm done buying parts to test fit. Too frustrating/disappointing.

1foxbody

I guess I'll add my experience to your clutch decision. I bought a CM stage 3 kit with aasco aluminum flywheel. I also have the unorthodox aluminum pulley set installed.

Out of the box the clutch doesn't fully disengage correctly. I made a longer rod for the slave cylinder to gain more throw at the clutch fork and removed the rubber isolator near the clutch pedal then welded it so there wasn't any play. Then I also added a extra nut and welded it on that same piece so I would gain more throw at the clutch master cylinder. Then I had enough throw to properly adjust the clutch and get it to disengage correctly.

I also have the check valve removed in the slave cylinder, the clutch damper removed, and replaced the oem clutch rubber hose with a steel braided one. I will say the pedal isn't the smoothest feeling anymore BUT I get precise clutch feedback in return. It's very tricky to drive since the clutch disc is so aggressive. When I first was breaking it in I had very bad clutch chatter. I still have it but no where near as bad. After driving in traffic for awhile the clutch starts to get hot and become very tricky too lol. I would not recommend it for daily driving but would for race use. I'm border line of trying a different clutch disc but can't complain because it's held up to over 500wtq on a 225 shot of nitrous with slicks. The clutch holds anything I throw at it period and that's about all it's good for lol. I might try a different disc that's less aggressive and more street friendly but who knows. I hope this helps you on your decision!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

You can't run a flywheel for another car. The CL is the only J series with a crank sensor pickup on the flywheel as well as the standard location. So you can only flywheels specifically for the CL.

Is that roof spoiler for a sedan or coupe?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^^ Wow, Fox that's a lot of additional work/problem solving just to get it to work.

Good to hear that it's working now for your particular application. Thanks for the input.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I figured the 03 cl is the only flywheel that works. Can you use a tl/accord clutch with our aasco flywheel tho? What about the spec clutch with aasco flywheel? Is that spacer that SPEC provides do the same thing as using a longer slave rod or shimming the fork?

You cant ask the companies because they have no idea. They all told me the accord clutch/flywheel will work on mine when it won't.

I think I might just go oem, but even then you need to adjust the spring tension because it dsn't seem to come preset and I think you need a special tool for that.

The roof spoiler was supposed to be for a coupe. It comes up too short on the sides and the top curved angle isn't right also.

Here is a teaser shot of the stack gauges in the pods. I had to cut off the mounting studs on the back of the gauges to get them to fit in.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I will be going through my parts this weekend and hopefully posting a for sale thread. Sorry I havnt gotten back to you about shifter box civic, I will box it up today.

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

Bummer on the roof spoiler . But the pod looks good .

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The sooner the better, I need to get the CL back to stock ASAP.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

working on it now.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Did you remove the big heat sheild above the cat ?
Do you know the weight ?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is what I posted when I installed tanabe.

"I also have weights.

stock heat shields 6 lbs
stock cat and shield 11 lbs
stock midpipe 20 lbs
stock mufflers(14x2) 28 lbs
ct mufflers(13x2) 26 lbs
tanabe mufflers(16x2)32 lbs
tanabe piping 16 lbs
XLR8 cat 5.18 lbs
XLR8 straight pipe 2.91 lbs

So basically as mufflers go ct are lightest, then stock, then tanabe.

Full stock setup would be ~65 lbs. My setup is ~52 lbs. It is also better that the weight of mine is more in the rear also."

I didn't weigh the cat heat shield seperately. I shipped it to xlr8 to use to make their new cat/test pipe so don't have it anymore.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

What is this ?
"stock heat shields 6 lbs"

Did you notice temp increases coming in the cabin with the sheilds removed ?