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I think you maybe on to something. I tried to take a pic to the best of my ability, but before doing so, I did realize that the pulley was slightly loose. Not the wheel itself, but the arm that connects to the block. I could wiggle it back and forth. I think this was what I was hearing when the knocking would go away, and I kept saying I was hearing a tap. Here's two pics of me wiggling it back and forth to show how much of a gap there was:
It wasn't a huge gap, but wiggling it back and forth, it definitely made a tapping noise. Not enough for a knock, I still think that's internal, but definitely a tap. As for what you were requesting to see, here you are:
My guess is that I didn't tighten down the pulley enough, it rocked back and forth, causing enough movement in the tensioner bolt to just come out of place. At least the pulley bolt didn't come out. Would have been far more damage if the pulley had come loose inside the timing cover.
Thanks for the pictures. I've been away dealing with preparation for the recent tropical storm.
Just curious, do you recollect inserting the #9 auto adjuster collar when installing that TB adjuster pulley? Camshaft - Timing Belt for 2003 Acura CL | Acura OEM Parts
IIRC'ly, that #7 TB adjuster bolt is torqued to 19 lbs-ft as well.
Thanks for the pictures. I've been away dealing with preparation for the recent tropical storm.
Just curious, do you recollect inserting the #9 auto adjuster collar when installing that TB adjuster pulley? Camshaft - Timing Belt for 2003 Acura CL | Acura OEM Parts
IIRC'ly, that #7 TB adjuster bolt is torqued to 19 lbs-ft as well.
Yup, I put the sleeve in. I'm sure I tightened down everything, but obviously I didn't tighten things down enough. Oh well, time for a new motor.
And did the storm already pass? I didn't even know there was one.
Yup, I put the sleeve in. I'm sure I tightened down everything, but obviously I didn't tighten things down enough. Oh well, time for a new motor.
And did the storm already pass? I didn't even know there was one.
Yeah, and we were on the 'dirty' side of the storm.
Even though this one was a short lived Cat. 1, I've watched stout maples, in the past, twisting in 95mph gusts like weeds. Scary sh!t!
One of many to develop in due time, unfortunately.
Yeah, and we were on the 'dirty' side of the storm.
Even though this one was a short lived Cat. 1, I've watched stout maples, in the past, twisting in 95mph gusts like weeds. Scary sh!t!
One of many to develop in due time, unfortunately.
Reminds me of the tornado that almost hit my home, and almost ook me and my girl's car (the 6 speed she just bought) with it. That was the closest I've been to a tornado. People weren't kidding about it sounding like a train. It went from really strong winds, to complete dead silence, then the sound of a train. Destroyed homes around us, jumped into the air, went over the apartments I live in, then landed down the road from us.
Damaged some of the property on the apartments; wrecked some cars, pulled up a huge tree, knocked over power lines, but a lot of homes around us were destroyed. Scary stuff storms are. I even have it on camera with the audio too. I need to dig that footage out.
Well, I figured I'd throw an update on here as to what's been going on.
Finally moved into the house and have a garage to work on the Acura. However, car needs to be flipped around to work inside of it, and there's cracks and divets that'll make an engine hoist unable to roll inside if I pull it from the outside. You can see what I'm talking about at the bottom left of the image. Need to get some concrete filler or something.
Anywho, these past two days, I've been working on pulling a motor from a 2002 MDX at the junk yard. This one specifically (Bottom, white one).
Motor was in alright shape. Spark plug threads were.. a bit rusty. I did a compression test on it, and it all came back good. I got everything disconnected today, and I finally tried to pull it out. Now, this is where I need y'all's help.
The motor is loose. It jiggles left and right, and it moves up and down. However, it's pulling the transmission up with it. I've removed every single bolt that is holding the two together from what I can see, including the ones on the inside that hold the flywheel(?) to the pressure plate(?). I tried prying it apart from underneath, and the back portion was coming apart, but the front portion wasn't budging. I have no clue what bolts I could possibly be missing. Even my friend couldn't spot anymore.
Some one suggested removing the subframe and dropping it, and I got most the bolts out before the yard closed. I did read you can pull it from the top still, but tell me. What the hell am I missing? Anything I should look for, or maybe know? I'll be looking through Acurazine and google to see if I can't find any info in the mean time.
I've removed every single bolt that is holding the two together from what I can see, including the ones on the inside that hold the flywheel(?) to the pressure plate(?). I tried prying it apart from underneath, and the back portion was coming apart, but the front portion wasn't budging. I have no clue what bolts I could possibly be missing. Even my friend couldn't spot anymore.
Congrats on your new crib.
According to helms there are 8 TC drive plate bolts, 3 front engine mount bracket bolts and 7 trans. housing bolts. Engine has to be moved enough to clear the dowel pins.
That's the only thing I can think of?
According to helms there are 8 TC drive plate bolts, 3 front engine mount bracket bolts and 7 trans. housing bolts. Engine has to be moved enough to clear the dowel pins.
That's the only thing I can think of?
The 3 engine mount bolts in the front, do doesn't it just have a single nut you can remove instead? Well, I went ahead and just removed it all anyways.
The Torque Convertor plate, that's what it was. That's why I put question marks, because I wasn't sure what it was. But all 8 bolts are out and the plate spins freely.
I think I did remove all 7 bolts if I remember correctly. I removed two on top, two on bottom, one in front that was an absolute to get out, and then I think I removed two in the back? I may have only removed one. But then why would the back portion split apart, but not the front? I've got to be missing something somewhere.
Some one did have a link to a Dropbox that hosted an MDX service manual, but the link is dead. I could really use it, because it looks like there's like one or two differences in bolt placements for the MDX compared to the CL, considering it's AWD and all..
This probably wont help much, but here goes some generic parts dwgs from a dealer parts site
Like 8 bolts for trans to block, few for the lower inspection cover, intermediate shaft, torque convertor.
I need to see a physical picture of the back and front portions of the motor, or just a full pic of all of the bolts in. I can probably find something on Google images, or I can jack up my CL and take another look. I'm thinking if I take a look, I'll see what bolts I didn't touch.
It looks like I may have missed one bolt on the front-middle portion, above the bolt I had a lot of problems with.
[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by 619rcr
Can't think of anything else besides the long starter bolt.
Are you talking about the two bolts that hold the starter motor in place? I was curious as to whether or not they both had to come out, along with the starter, but I only took the one out and saw how short it was, and didn't give the other one a try.
I don't remember the starter ever being taken out of my car when the original mechanic pulled and installed my motor. I'm kind of just going off what I saw him do and touch, along with the service manual.
But those pics were definitely of some help, so thanks, lol.
Last edited by Thefireball; 08-16-2021 at 09:06 PM.
yes, iirc top starter bolt is short. but, the bottom is long like a regular trans bolt. I'd dbl chk that.
I'm going to lose my shit if that one single bolt was holding on that heavy transmission. There's no way. I knew I should have removed it when I was staring it down .
Lol, I added one pic of the j35a8 tilted open and one of the j32a2 with trans off. You can kinda imagine the lower starter bolt hole would be mid front case.
Lol, I added one pic of the j35a8 tilted open and one of the j32a2 with trans off. You can kinda imagine the lower starter bolt hole would be mid front case.
I'm convinced you just wanted to show off your shiny clean pressure plate .
But in all seriousness, as hard as I find it to believe that's the only bolt I didn't pull out. It's just hard to fathom that a starter bolt is able to sustain that much weight. I mean we were pulling hard on the chain. I was just getting impatient and just pulled on it, hoping something happened. I mean, it is a junk car, so I don't car too much. You'd think it'd just break with all that weight and force, but nope.
But, you guys will hear of me either tomorrow, or next pay day (the weekend after this one coming up) if I'm still having troubles. I should have taken pics before, but junkyard times run quick. If I get it out, then you'll know by all the success pics.
I genuinely appreciate the pics you sent, thank you.
Got the motor out. Only $215. Had to pull out the injectors and fuel rails, since injectors were $6 each, and rails $7 each. I'm a cheapo, but better than spending $400 + whatever shipping would have been.
And here she sits, in my garage. Next up on my list is a hoist and a stand, so I can get it off my floor and start pulling out the motor in my CL. I SURE HOPE THIS ONE HAS NO ISSUES. But at least I can swap parts amongst the two motors, just in case.
Asked my buddy who helped me out and transported for me to take a silly pic with me.
So, firstly, I think I have discovered the source of the knocking noise, along with the coolant leaking into the cylinders, and my oil now having a milky look. I believe it to be a blown head gasket, but they're brand new. So possibly a warped block? I don't know until I check everything when the motor is out. But it doesn't matter now that the newly rebuilt heads got all their valves bent when the timing belt tensioner went.
Now, here's my question: Replacing valves isn't difficult if you have the correct tool to do the job. The heads have been rebuilt, so everything should be good, but how good depending on the damage done? I mean, there's no way to see how bad the damage is without pulling the heads, but what are the chances that only the valves received the damage?
I immediately shut the car off after it had happened. Would the valve seats possibly be bad as well? I'm thinking of replacing only the valves on the head, but I want to catch other's opinions on it first.
In other news, there is a slight valve leak on the new motor's heads. I tried doing compression tests with throttle body cleaner pooled up on the intake valves, and every single intake valve was bubbling around the edges. Machine shop told me today that there was a slight vacuum leak. $109 just for a vacuum leak check. Kind of considering telling them to just scrap them.
I'll be getting a hoist come Saturday, so I can start pulling the motor in my car currently; not sure if I'll have enough for a stand. But I'll be getting a straight edge and maybe a cylinder bore gauge just to check the cylinders on both blocks. Still not giving up.
Now, here's my question: Replacing valves isn't difficult if you have the correct tool to do the job. The heads have been rebuilt, so everything should be good, but how good depending on the damage done? I mean, there's no way to see how bad the damage is without pulling the heads, but what are the chances that only the valves received the damage?
In other news, there is a slight valve leak on the new motor's heads. I tried doing compression tests with throttle body cleaner pooled up on the intake valves, and every single intake valve was bubbling around the edges. Machine shop told me today that there was a slight vacuum leak. $109 just for a vacuum leak check. Kind of considering telling them to just scrap them.
I'll be getting a hoist come Saturday, so I can start pulling the motor in my car currently; not sure if I'll have enough for a stand. But I'll be getting a straight edge and maybe a cylinder bore gauge just to check the cylinders on both blocks. Still not giving up.
Kinda lost in following what you were saying about the heads. You had old heads rebuilt from the grenaded timing tensioner, but not checked for straightness or warpage? If the most recent motor has leaking valves, can you not just swap over the good valves and get the valve seats refaced and head cut .004 to ensure straightness?.
Kinda lost in following what you were saying about the heads. You had old heads rebuilt from the grenaded timing tensioner, but not checked for straightness or warpage? If the most recent motor has leaking valves, can you not just swap over the good valves and get the valve seats refaced and head cut .004 to ensure straightness?.
When I swapped in the new motor, I didn't do a valve adjustment for the J32 Camshaft. So it bent the valves. So I took it to a machine shop to be completely rebuilt. You can see the images in this thread after they were finished.
The problem then is that the timing belt tensioner bolt came out, and bent all the (new) valves on these heads that had less than 50 miles on them. I still haven't observed the damage, but I would imagine they would still be in better shape than the heads on the new (third) motor, due to them having been worked on by a machine shop once already.
I'm kind of considering just doing a rebuild myself on both set of heads, but I'm not sure what all is involved. Valve lapping is easy enough, replacing valves and valve guides. Springs I can imagine could be reused since they're still new. I've just never done it before, and have no clue what all I'm getting myself into, but I'm willing to try and learn.
Last edited by Thefireball; 09-09-2021 at 05:44 PM.
I still haven't observed the damage, but I would imagine they would still be in better shape than the heads on the new (third) motor, due to them having been worked on by a machine shop once already.
So, you are thinking of removing the bent valves from the 'machine shop' heads and transplanting the 'OK' valves from the 'new (third)' engine heads into the 'machine shop' heads?
Just speculating here, but would it be reasonable to think that IF the 'machine shop' heads bent valves were not to drastically bent, the valve guides and such would not have been stressed enough to cause any damage to them; therefore, you could use the 'new (third)' engine valves to have a complete set of 'machine shop' heads? Thus saving some money.
So, you are thinking of removing the bent valves from the 'machine shop' heads and transplanting the 'OK' valves from the 'new (third)' engine heads into the 'machine shop' heads?
Just speculating here, but would it be reasonable to think that IF the 'machine shop' heads bent valves were not to drastically bent, the valve guides and such would not have been stressed enough to cause any damage to them; therefore, you could use the 'new (third)' engine valves to have a complete set of 'machine shop' heads? Thus saving some money.
I was actually thinking of ordering brand new valves, and maybe guides as well, but I wouldn't know what to look for regarding good and bad guides.
The valves on the new engine's head looked fine (besides being worn a bit on the bottoms), in fact, they looked like they were sealing. They are bent on such a small scale, that you can't even tell. I'm wondering if all I would have to do is just replace the valves on them, or if I could just relap the valves.
But if I'm going to rebuild a set of heads, I would prefer to do the set that has already been resurfaced once, and valve seats touched up on, and has less than 50 miles put on them, compared to a motor that has an unknown amount of miles & wear put on it.
The original question I was asking, is how much damage could there be from a slipping timing belt tensioner to rebuilt heads? Obviously I won't know until I pull them, but would it be better chancing a rebuild my self with them, or am I going to expect more work with them than the other set of heads?
Sorry if I'm confusing y'all, or asking obvious questions with even more obvious answers. Just trying to figure out what path to take. I can buy various components over time (valves & tools) but I can't afford to pay for another rebuild outright all at once.
Last edited by Thefireball; 09-09-2021 at 07:51 PM.
Is their an easy 'bench' method to determine if any of the valves are really bent?
For the new (third motor) set of heads, or the other set? I'm going to wait to ask the machine shop guys what their opinion is on the heads, and ask what they would do, and what all needs to be done on them (third motor's heads).
Little confused by your question, but I imagine I could use feeler gauges, or a light down the port to see if there's light coming through a gap in the valves?
I'm just lost when it comes to 'rebuilding' heads. I watch videos where people are using big expensive machines to rebuild them to be 'specific' tolerances. Then I look at other forums where people are saying you can get away with a lot with doing it yourself. So it's like, I'm left wondering if it's something I can do, or you need a machinist.
I looked through some one else's thread of lapping valves on another forum, and failed. It really doesn't seem that difficult, but considering this thread is already past 100 posts, and the car is still not back on the road, I'm really considering if it's even worth chancing it. It's either a couple months worth of saving to rebuild them through professionals, or doing it myself and doing it sooner. I'm going to be doing a lot of research on rebuilding heads and figuring out what to do, but leaning towards new valves and lapping them, that's if guides aren't bad. Question is, what head do I decide to work on?
Last edited by Thefireball; 09-09-2021 at 10:07 PM.
I was actually thinking of ordering brand new valves, and maybe guides as well, but I wouldn't know what to look for regarding good and bad guides.
The valves on the new engine's head looked fine (besides being worn a bit on the bottoms), in fact, they looked like they were sealing. They are bent on such a small scale, that you can't even tell. I'm wondering if all I would have to do is just replace the valves on them, or if I could just relap the valves.
But if I'm going to rebuild a set of heads, I would prefer to do the set that has already been resurfaced once, and valve seats touched up on, and has less than 50 miles put on them, compared to a motor that has an unknown amount of miles & wear put on it.
The original question I was asking, is how much damage could there be from a slipping timing belt tensioner to rebuilt heads? Obviously I won't know until I pull them, but would it be better chancing a rebuild my self with them, or am I going to expect more work with them than the other set of heads?
Sorry if I'm confusing y'all, or asking obvious questions with even more obvious answers. Just trying to figure out what path to take. I can buy various components over time (valves & tools) but I can't afford to pay for another rebuild outright all at once.
Service manual... it has all the measurements and procedures. Valve guides are not easy to do. cutting the valve seats can be done, but you need to know what you're doing or the angles could be wrong. You also may overcut and ruin the heads. Lapping valves is kind of a cheap method to smooth the valves and faces. But its not precise.
Removing the springs. and valves and reinstalling is not too difficult with a valve compressor. I actually disassmebled my rl heads with a mallet and socket. just be careful not to lose the keepers. I got an amazon compressor to reinstall, but have not disassembled the old heads.
I would just take all the heads apart at home with the hammer and socket technique. tape the valves in place underneath. set the springs, retainers, keepers aside. then have a machine shop inspect heads. valves and valve seats. you can go from there.
So, all in the interest of saving $$$$, theoretically, he could take both sets of heads and remove each valve, labelling their respective location from each head.
Bench test their straightness, assembling a complete set of straight intake & exhaust valves from the aggregate to use.
Take the 'machine shop' heads, since they have been newly revised, and apply the valves to each cylinder. Checking the 'side to side' play? of the valve guides as the valves are inserted to 'try' and determine if they were damaged during the 'tensioner bolt' incident.
By tracking each valve location, as the valves are tested for straightness, one would label that respective intake / exhaust valve guide as either 'OK' if the valve is straight or 'possibly damaged' if the valve is found to be bent. This process would catalog which valve guides are damaged between the two sets of heads, further indicating which 'less damaged' head could be 'gambled on' to assemble and use 'outright' or have the 'less damaged' heads rebuilt when $$ becomes available.
I realize that's a tremendous oversimplification; however, it would help answer if there is a usable set of heads, ultimately, between the four that he has without sending the machine shop owner's kids to college on his cabbage.
Service manual... it has all the measurements and procedures. Valve guides are not easy to do. cutting the valve seats can be done, but you need to know what you're doing or the angles could be wrong. You also may overcut and ruin the heads. Lapping valves is kind of a cheap method to smooth the valves and faces. But its not precise.
Removing the springs. and valves and reinstalling is not too difficult with a valve compressor. I actually disassmebled my rl heads with a mallet and socket. just be careful not to lose the keepers. I got an amazon compressor to reinstall, but have not disassembled the old heads.
I would just take all the heads apart at home with the hammer and socket technique. tape the valves in place underneath. set the springs, retainers, keepers aside. then have a machine shop inspect heads. valves and valve seats. you can go from there.
So, I'm not too sure what a 'valve seat' is, or what 'cutting valve seats' even entails. I guess that's why I'm confused. I mean, if I think about, I could figure out what it is.
Regardless, if it comes to to doing any 'cutting', yeah nah. I'll leave that to the shops. I've never thought of a really dissambelling the heads completely before taking them to a shop until asking these questions though. So I might end up trying that in the future. But I hope for $109, they at least cleaned up the heads. As far as I know, they only did a vacuum leak test.
Also, for valve guides, I actually don't know what all is involved with replacing them. I kinda just figured it'd be easy, but I guess it's not, huh? I've been too busy watching YouTube videos and googling instead of taking a look at the service manual.
Originally Posted by zeta
Nice!
So, all in the interest of saving $$$$, theoretically, he could take both sets of heads and remove each valve, labelling their respective location from each head.
Bench test their straightness, assembling a complete set of straight intake & exhaust valves from the aggregate to use.
Take the 'machine shop' heads, since they have been newly revised, and apply the valves to each cylinder. Checking the 'side to side' play? of the valve guides as the valves are inserted to 'try' and determine if they were damaged during the 'tensioner bolt' incident.
By tracking each valve location, as the valves are tested for straightness, one would label that respective intake / exhaust valve guide as either 'OK' if the valve is straight or 'possibly damaged' if the valve is found to be bent. This process would catalog which valve guides are damaged between the two sets of heads, further indicating which 'less damaged' head could be 'gambled on' to assemble and use 'outright' or have the 'less damaged' heads rebuilt when $$ becomes available.
I realize that's a tremendous oversimplification; however, it would help answer if there is a usable set of heads, ultimately, between the four that he has without sending the machine shop owner's kids to college on his cabbage.
Besides the fact that I'm spending $85 a week on gas for the LS400, money is a bit tight. So if fixing the heads is something I can do, you bet your ass I'm going to do it, lol.
Oversimplification is exactly what I need. I don't have a professional, or some one knowledgeable with cars helping me out here. Just Google, YouTube, service manual, random forums, and you guys.
Everytime I look at my car, I look back at the threads I read on here of people saying
- "Don't modify your daily driver"
- "Modifying the J series isn't cheap"
- "Gotta pay to play"
Guess I learned the hard way, lmao.
And just to let y'all know; when I had my heads rebuilt, I was charged $650. Everywhere else online is around $400. You could see why I'm not so enthusiastic about having them rebuilt when I'm on a budget.
Last edited by Thefireball; 09-10-2021 at 06:39 AM.
Ultimately, I agree with the machine shop advice 619rcr provides.
In short, if the time-consuming methodical approach I outlined above were followed, hopefully with luck, you will only find 'one' valve that is bent. Should that happen, you would be able to determine, by feel, whether that particular cylinder's valve guide is substantially 'different' than the others. With that, you can make the 'command decision' using your gut, judgement and testicular fortitude to forgo replacement, of that 'different' valve guide, and proceed to reassemble the head(s) for use.
As you already have learned and realize, there's going to be risk anyway you proceed.
Picked up a hoist today from Harbor Freight. It's only a 1ton, but it should do the job, I hope. Also picked up the cylinder heads from the shop. I asked the guy there his opinion on my situation, and what he would do, and what I could get away with.
I asked him if the rebuilt heads with the bent valves would have to be resurfaced again. He said as long as the bottom isn't scratched, it should be okay. Then I asked him about just swapping out the valves and lapping them. He basically confirmed what I've been wanting to do, which is that they should still be good, and to just replace the valves, but if the guides are bad, they need to be machined. So I'm going to pull this motor out, and take her apart and see what the damage is. In the mean time, I'll be getting a spring compressor tool and practicing with this bad set of heads.
While I could just order a used set of J32 heads, I'm going to save that for later when I start attempting to fully rebuild one of the motors. Right now, I just want to get the car back on the road asap.
Here's some pics of the cylinder heads off the third motor:
Weird how they can look perfectly fine, but are bad.
Last edited by Thefireball; 09-10-2021 at 05:06 PM.
^
Do you think any of those valves are salvageable or are you just going to drop the coin and get new?
Well besides those two exhausts valves you can see on the second head, I guess they look fine enough to reuse. I'd have to do the roll-on-the-bench test to find out, lol.
But considering the valves in the rebuilt heads are new, I don't think mixing new with old would be a good idea. Just going to have to disassemble everything and go from there.
But considering the valves in the rebuilt heads are new, I don't think mixing new with old would be a good idea. Just going to have to disassemble everything and go from there.
However, if the used valves are few and the service limit dimensions 'check out', they should work. Check out Helms page 6-53; Valve Inspection. Those specs are for the J32A2 valves, though. How much different could the J35A3 MDX valves be in 'service limit' is the question?
However, if the used valves are few and the service limit dimensions 'check out', they should work. Check out Helms page 6-53; Valve Inspection. Those specs are for the J32A2 valves, though. How much different could the J35A3 MDX valves be in 'service limit' is the question?
Would J32 valves even fit in the J35 head? Wouldn't you need to make the valve hole bigger? Is that what cutting valve seats is? I'm going to need a tiny measuring tool to measure everything this service manual is mentioning.
I'm also considering an attempt to resurface these heads myself, because I have two sets, why not? Apparently, a lot of people have used a flat piece of glass (checked with a feeler gauge and straight edge), and glue sand paper to it and just move them back and forth. Some one even did it with a 4 cylinder block.
I'm wondering if the knocking isn't necessarily a blown head gasket or a warped head, but rather, the block needed to be resurfaced.
The intake valve for the Base CL J32A1 shares the same part # with the intake valve for the MDX J35A3; therefore, you would use the A;B;C service limit dimension 'specs' on Helms page 6-53 for the J32A1.
The exhaust valve for the Base CL; Type-S and 02 MDX all share the same part #; therefore, you would use the J32A2 A;B;C service limit dimension 'specs' on Helms page 6-53 for the J32A2.
Would J32 valves even fit in the J35 head? Wouldn't you need to make the valve hole bigger? Is that what cutting valve seats is? I'm going to need a tiny measuring tool to measure everything this service manual is mentioning.
I'm also considering an attempt to resurface these heads myself, because I have two sets, why not? Apparently, a lot of people have used a flat piece of glass (checked with a feeler gauge and straight edge), and glue sand paper to it and just move them back and forth. Some one even did it with a 4 cylinder block.
I'm wondering if the knocking isn't necessarily a blown head gasket or a warped head, but rather, the block needed to be resurfaced.
The valve seat refers to the underside of the heads where the valve sits in. or is seated if you will. As the valves and seats meet over thousands of miles the edges of those machined surfaces wear. Thus by cutting the seats. you are using tools to freshen the edges and angles of the seats. the valves likewise have matching cuts and that's why you want to either replace or perform a matching valve job. i.e. 3 angle valve job.
By doing any corner cutting in an effort to stay low budget you are gambling with precisely machined surfaces which means you also gamble with the sealing surfaces.
The valve seat refers to the underside of the heads where the valve sits in. or is seated if you will. As the valves and seats meet over thousands of miles the edges of those machined surfaces wear. Thus by cutting the seats. you are using tools to freshen the edges and angles of the seats. the valves likewise have matching cuts and that's why you want to either replace or perform a matching valve job. i.e. 3 angle valve job.
By doing any corner cutting in an effort to stay low budget you are gambling with precisely machined surfaces which means you also gamble with the sealing surfaces.
Then what is the purpose of lapping valves if it just grinds the valve and seat anyways? And at the same time, I wouldn't say the previously rebuilt heads were even broken in, but wouldn't they wear after so many miles and kind of shape the seats and valves as well? That's if you can get the motor to atleast idle and run properly, and then I guess 'break it in'.
Then what is the purpose of lapping valves if it just grinds the valve and seat anyways? And at the same time, I wouldn't say the previously rebuilt heads were even broken in, but wouldn't they wear after so many miles and kind of shape the seats and valves as well? That's if you can get the motor to atleast idle and run properly, and then I guess 'break it in'.
you wont find valve lapping in the service manual. at least in the sense of twisting the valves with a grinding compound with a suction cup on a stick.
the intended use of lapping is to add prussian blue after doing the 3 angle cuts, to check the placement of the valve as it hits the valve seat.
you wont find valve lapping in the service manual. at least in the sense of twisting the valves with a grinding compound with a suction cup on a stick.
the intended use of lapping is to add prussian blue after doing the 3 angle cuts, to check the placement of the valve as it hits the valve seat.
I'm thinking of valve lapping as a way to mold the valve to the valve seat. Am I correct in thinking that way, or is that wrong?
Regardless, the guy at the machine shop told me that the valve seats should still be good. But I'll be finding out soon enough. Just gotta turn the car 180° some how..
07-08-2021, 06:07 PM
I've been away dealing with preparation for the recent tropical storm. 
to get out, and then I think I removed two in the back? I may have only removed one. But then why would the back portion split apart, but not the front? I've got to be missing something somewhere. 
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valve that is bent. Should that happen, you would be able to determine, by feel, whether that particular cylinder's valve guide is substantially 'different' than the others. With that, you can make the 'command decision' using your gut, judgement and testicular fortitude to forgo replacement, of that 'different' valve guide, and proceed to reassemble the head(s) for use.
