Mike

the first post in this thread was made on 2/2/08. coming up on a 1 year anniversary

J32A26MT

Wow, haven't been on here much lately, but glad I checked! My car started shaking a bit and I noticed my rear NRG damper popped out and the bolt still sits the same way i put it in. Makes me wander if it stripped or something. I had planned on buying the Innovative mounts, but it sure does not sound like a good idea anymore. I like the idea of filling the stock mounts with poly, but it seems like a lot of work with our mounts in perticular, and I don't know if I can use my mounts in whatever condition they may be in, or if I need new stock mounts. Just to confirm, are the front and side mounts on the 6 speeds liquid filled? Would it be recommended to only buy the Innovative side mount and just fill the front and rear? I need to do something really,really soon considering how much I drive everyday.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

funny because my NRG front damper was pulled apart. if you are going to poly fill i would say fill the side yourself. your mount will be just as good as innovatives. remember that they had to revise the side once already due to alignment issues. i wouldn't trust any of their mounts.

J32A26MT

So you recommend polying all the mounts? does it matter what condition they are in? I was reading your thread on your job and they look good, i just don't know if I need new ones before I do it or if i can just take my car out of commission for a bit to do them all.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

well my side mount i removed 95% of the rubber so if your side is blown it would be the same as mine, just cut it out. i wanted to poly to surround as much as the center pin as possible, especially on the bottom where the mount has the rubber fluid pocket.

as for my 6 speed rear i left it alone since it was new and the poly was going to fill all sides of the center pin. if it is just worn i would say fill it. after the poly is in place i see the old rubber-hydraulic fluid combo taking very little load. the poly is taking the beating for it. from how solid mine felt after the poly i doubt the rubber ever comes in play.

Billy Sacco

Well to add more crap to this thread I switched out mounts last night to OEM front and the "corrected" side mount from innovative. Wow I took for granted how nice the stock mounts were now the ride is smooth. I only had innovative front and side installed and they were both pretty much trashed. I will take pics later and add them in. To those who thought running just an innovative side mount is a good option I would say no. I am going to order an OEM side mount soon as I don't have much faith in the innovative mount holding up for long. Anyhow yay $300 flushed away.

RUF87

I'm Done With Innovative!

I've been trying for over a month to get an update from Innovative on the status of the latest redesign. I've tested several different designs to help them fix the vibration problem with the rear mount. I've also asked for the 2 references that Innovative claims to have no vibration problems . . . and have not provided them. Innovative is denying that there is a significant vibration problem and has not looked at the video I took to prove otherwise.

Since I've had to resort to replacing the rear mount with an OEM mount to solve the vibration problems I will no longer do free testing of their mounts.

I still have Innovative mounts on the front (3rd gen design) and the side (2nd gen).

NOTE: The following recommendations only apply to Innovative mounts for the 2nd Gen CL/TLs.

I DO NOT recommend anyone use any of the front, rear or side first gen Innovative mounts.

I also DO NOT recommend using the 2nd gen front or rear mounts.

And finally, I DO NOT recommend installing any of their rear mounts as no design to date has been anywhere close to being satisfactory.

You may PM me for a more timely response or post here in hopes that I will check from time to time.

Finally, The overall desire to address the weakness of the OEM mounts is still an issue I will continue to invest some time on, but not at the rate I've done so far. Better motor mounts are a big plus for our cars, so please let me know if you come across anything and I will check in to it and add my

I'm sorry this hasn't worked out . . . I'm not sure what actions if any to take with Innovative . . . but I know a lot of people spent a lot of money and time on a product that did not work out . . . if anyone wishes to discuss what all I and or other's have done with Innovative please PM me and I'll respond as appropriate.

Ruf

RUF87

Hey distortedskool, nice to finally meet you face to face at the DFW meet at pmptx's ranch.

I was also good to catch up on the motor mount issue, and your DIY looked very clean and solid.

Ruf

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

you to man! i should of rode in your TL to check it out. hopefully you will make it down in march for the austin meet.

Chris's01

I just called them they these mounts have been through over 10 revisions they are suppose to fit perfectly now and will still retain a slight vibration until broken in. mine ship out on monday i will after installed by acura give you an update!

rp_guy

haha.. what they'll tell you to make a sale

jproy

chris's01,
I own a set of these mounts. I was told the same thing by the owner of IM when I bought them. Please hold off on your update until you have all three of them installed and have had them in for at least two weeks of regular driving. I did mine one at a time. Side mount first, it was fine but the collar on the IM mount is shorter than the collar on the OEM mount so the bracket off the engine has to bend/compress in an unnatural manner to tighten down on the IM. I then did the Front mount and all was well with the install except I had to twist the motor slightly to line everything up. After three months of driving I found my front mount had "doughed severely" (huge air gap between collar of IM and deformed poly urethane) like the pics of the rear mounts in earlier pages of the thread. I installed the rear mount about a month after the front mount. Getting the bolts to line up was a bitch. The performance improvement was great! However, the car vibrated violently at certain points in the RPM range. I had harsh vibrations coming in through the stick, wheel, pedals, seat, etc. The vibrations caused everything in the car to rattle and bang, it was ridiculous. I felt like I was driving inside a coffee can filled with rocks down a dirt road at any RPM. I had to take the rear IM out three days later and it had "doughed"/deformed severely like the front IM mount and the other pics posted earlier in this thread. So, hold off on your report till you can give a thorough analysis if you don’t mind. I have worked with poly and this crap about breaking them in is total BS with regard to the extreme vibrations transmitted through these mounts. In so far as the poly is concerned the only thing that will happen over a few weeks to fully cured poly is that it will deform. Any natural correct softening (break in ) is not going to correct the extreme vibrations. They tell people this to shut them up and hope they stay quiet. A properly designed/aligned mount will look just like it did going in as when it came out a few weeks earlier. I hope you have great results with your mounts.

RUF87

Damn . . . I should have let you drive it as well . . . it would have been good to get another view on how the mounts feel and what that tranny feels like as well.

Ruf

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

ruf
hopefully when you make it down for the spring meet i'll have the custom mounts tuned up. with help from other azine people we are going to kick the innovative habit.

RUF87

And I tested 5 different designs and not one of them was without problems. The only thing good so far is that the 3rd gen design front mount is still holding up almost 4 months now.

Until I see first hand, or from distortedolskool or jproy . . . I would not recommend these mounts for anyone with a 2nd Gen.

Ruf

JayT

Has anyone tried to return these and get refunded? I am willing to keep my side mount from innovative but I don't want to install the front nor the rear. Mine are still brand new in the box...

yunginTL

fuck those motherfuckers...im back to stock, is thtere anyway to take advantage of their lifetime warranty if the mounts look broken?

Billy Sacco

they will just send you more of their crap mounts and you will have to pay to send your back in.

Accord_V6_400m

iTrader: (1)

Well it seems beause of having all 3 mounts in, the vibration took its toll and broke both Alt. bolts, and now the 10mm bolt is broken and stuck in the block.

jproy

Please explain further. This doesnt make any sense. Are you saying the Innovative mounts caused the two bolts that hold your alternator to the block to crack? If so, it is HIGHLY unlikely there is any correlation. If there is, it is probably because someone seriously over tighted the bracket bolts on the alternator. Please explain.

For the shank of the bolt stuck in the block, you can get a bolt extractor kit that will take it right out, no problem. Dont sweat that shank in the block that is an easy fix.

Accord_V6_400m

iTrader: (1)

what other correlation do you see? Last time I touched those bolts was for the SC kit months ago, why now all of a sudden, perhaps the vibration loosened them up and as a result after getting loose they were more susceptible to breaking? I'll put up some pics when I can. Either way both bolts breaking like that is very random, I mean when does your alternator try to just fall out of the car?

As for the extractor kit, it works in theory but the bottom Alt. bolt isn't that hard to get to but space limits how you can use the extractor kit, plus i've had them break on me and fill in the hole I just made with a drill bit, I asked my mehanic that did my swap, and he'll call me back and let me know what he comes up with.

jproy

If one bolt cracked from being over tightened at any point during removal and install, for whatever reason during the life of the vehicle, it would have been weakened. The points to weaken are where the first threads of the bolt hole meet the bolt, the first threads in the bolt hole, or the threads on the bolt where they meet the bolt hole threads. If one of the bolts cracked due to fatigue, the other would easily crack especially if it was over tightened from the exaggerated vibrations associated with holding the alternator in place from one side with one bolt. It would be like a tuning fork. I am not saying it didn’t happen from the mounts, or questioning your theory. I don't know, I'm only speculating from experience and applied physics. The vibrational(NHV) forces applied to the alternator bolts should be less when the motor can move less as the stiffer mounts are transferring more of the sharpest vibrations of the engine assembly to the chassis instead of allowing the oscillations of the motor to absorb them as occurs with the softer OEM mounts. The engine block is so strong that any forces applied on the block due to poor alignment of the mounts and abnormal static loading wouldn’t have any effect on the strength of the support structure of the alternator bracket. It is more likely you either had a random weak bolt that simply fractured and would have anyway without the mounts or someone weakened the bolt from over tightening etc.. In theory, you should be able to pick up the motor by holding it with just the alternator if you could. The static shear strength of just one of those bolts is above 1000lbs.

RUF87

The 3rd generation design on the front has been on now for more than 5 months and is still holding up. However, I still believe that this design can still be improved on. (see image of what they look like)

Note, this only applies to the front mount as Innovative has never resolved the major problems with the rear mount.

I'm running an OEM rear mount for now . . . and hope some day there will be an aftermarket option for the rear.




Ruf

EL19

iTrader: (4)

^^^ hows the vibes with that?

RUF87

Vibrations are mild . . if you want near stock feel I don't think you will be happy. If however you are a serious racer and don't mind header drone, CAI noise, etc . . . then you may be okay with it.

All that said, as I noted there is still some work to be done on the overall design. I think there might be some others engaging in some R&D that will hopefully be better than what is now available. If you are needing mounts now, you might want to try the DIY ones to get you through until some are available, that's what I would do at this point . . . all things considered.

NOTE: With the old/original design, the bushings DID NOT hold up. See pic inset.

Original design - note bushing orientation

1st & 2nd Gen Bushings after a very short time.



Ruf

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

get you through? i was shooting for the solution. i will not be purchasing any new production mounts until they have been road tested by others.

btw Ruf i guess you can't make the meet? if not i'll let you know when i'm in dallas again (april) so we can compare mounts.

RUF87

Yes, a DIY solution. I didn't keep up with where you are on this. Last I know you were still tweaking the process, so my bad if you've got it worked out. Something about which material to use or something. So, how are they holding up? If the rear should go I will certainly do your DIY mount before I'd ever mess with Innovative again.

As for the Big As Texas Meet goes, yeah . . there's no way I could make it . . . especially being without a job right now. I'll just have to wait for the next DFW meet.

Ruf

Mike

mark, have you been able to inspect the bushings on the 3rd gen mounts?

Billy Sacco

Distortedolskool's poly filling the oem mounts looks like the best option at the moment. The innovative mounts just have way less mass to them. Once my mounts go out I will most likely be going this route. The hasport stuff someone showed earlier looked like much better quality then the innovative mounts.

RUF87

Yes, that's the ones I was referring to in the posts above. I just had some new tires put on last week and took a close look at the bushings and they look just like they did when I installed them . . . no change in vibrations either. And with the latest performance mods I'm really working them hard, so I'm pretty sure this is the right design approach. We just needed Innovative to come through and do a few more tweaks, but alas . . . they stuck their head in the sand and are ignoring us now. It's been months and no returned calls. That's why I said I'm done with them and won't recommend them.

Anyway, there are some others looking in to this. If it ever gets to the point of there being something to test, I offered to help out. Keep your fingers crossed as I would like to see a quality performance mount for us.

Ruf

RUF87

Agreed, I got to see Distortedolskool's poly DIY in person and I wouldn't hesitate going that route if I needed stronger mounts.

Ruf

TL260power

Ok now where can I get the best price for stock OEM front and side motor mounts???

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

http://oemacuraparts.com/

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

back from the dead: yes.

my friend informed me that innovative mounts are actually close to where i live. yeah a little late right?

so far, on this forum at least, IM has a bad name. but their products (that actually fit) perform very well. so i emailed them seeing if they're willing to perfect these mounts and fix all issues (using my car). we'll see what they say.


mean time, if anyone can PM me exactly which mounts are not fitting right... or are they all of them?

Mike

it's not a fitment issue. it's the crappy design and bushings. according to IM the mounts are great and don't have any issues.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

thought there was a fitment issue that something wasn't aligning.

seems like all the other car applications are working just fine except ours.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I though I read something about the rear mount not lining up properly? Distorted or JP would probably be the ones to ask.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

the width of the center pin for the rear and side mount was the wrong width. the side mount bolt pattern for the mounting legs was off but i believe they fixed that. i'm also convinced that the elevation of the center pin was also higher than stock and changed the engine angle.

the main issue with the rear mount was the poly quality, RE Doughnut complaints.

they have completely revised the front mount and RUF has them. i do not so i can't comment on their latest revision.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

the doughnut complaints, is it just that the mounts are aligning properly? if so i can see why; its putting MORE stress on the poly.

might be a little too late but we'll see if they even get in contact with me.

RUF87

it's alive for the hills . . .

There's too much history for me to take my time to summarize all the issues.

My biggest issue is that IM did not deliver a quality working product. It's been months since they verbally agreed to work with jproy, distorded and myself and resolve the problems once and for all time. As it stands, it's been several months since my last communications with them and they've never returned my last round of calls. I even sent them an email, which also has gone unanswered.

Okay, that said, I told Tim I was sure we were on the right track at one point, but then blew us off. If you look at the last (3rd gen) design that I posted some pics of, that is holding up, but only on the front. It's been about 8 months or so and the bushings in the front and side mount are still holding up. However, I had to replace the rear with an OEM mount to resolve the earth shaking vibrations with the IM rear mount.

At this point, there is little IM can do to regain my, and probably most of the 2nd gen CLs and TLs trust. Most of us are out several hundred dollars and many are no longer running IM mounts. Some of us have put a lot of time and money in to helping them resolve the problems. Unless they produce a product that meets our standards, and send those replacements to us at no cost, I'll have nothing more to do with them.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but we were screwed and were left hanging dry.

PM me if you want to chat about what I believe your options are.

Ruf