types1967

steve when are you getting a dyno done?

types1967

found this on super streethttp://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/87158/

scalbert

When everything is complete and I am comfortable with the longevity.

scalbert

BTW, I got the new harness done and will take some pictures tonight. I put the socket in an experiment box and taped up the entire lengths of cable. Looks pretty good IMO. All terminals are crimped and soldered and all taps soldered. I Ohm'd out all terminals so it should be good to go.

More on this later...

ModAddict

If you end up making a few more, I can send you my harness to re-use the connectors.

When I did the glove box mod, I ended up trimming the bottom, left, of the plastic air filter access cover (?), that sits behind the glove box. It started to pull the end cover off the eman when you opened the glove box, so chop-chop. You could probably mount it sideways and avoid that if you want to. Here is how mine ended up.

http://www.photohost.org/gallery/sho...t=7&thecat=500

ModAddict

forgot one
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/sho...hp?photo=21580

scalbert

I was about to install it but Makenna decided differently.

So all I got done this evening was fitting the new manifold. But I did snap a few picture of the harness. I'll try to get around to installing it tomorrow. Pictures below:

scalbert

BTW, only the two left sockets are used in the 6-Speed application.

mattg

i have to say, this is all getting pretty exciting. how long would you say until you are testing an e-managed and intercooled cl-s?

scalbert

One month hopefully; but at least before the end of the year. That is with cooperation from my girls. I have been going into the office around 5:30 to 6:00 AM to find the time to mess with this stuff.

Before their birth I would gladly work from the time I went home to the time I went to bed. But now when I get home I have two wonderful bundles of joy to take care of. Needless to say, I go to bed early.

scalbert

I got a chance to test the new harness and get some real street time with the e-Manage today. Upon firing up the car with the e-Manage in place I got a DTC. A quick read with the OBD-2 software indicated a VTEC System malfunction. I had re-done the wiring to support the information in the shop manual. But obviously the shop manual was incorrect, which is not the first time I have found this.

I had to tear apart a portion of my harness and a quick snip, splice and re-tape and the car was fired up again. This time with the wiring for the VTEC control exactly as it was shown in the e-Manage manual. I cleared the code and it didn't come back. So now it was time for a drive.

Now remember, this is with all zeros and it should be running as though the e-Manage was not in place. That is except for the Boost Cut limiter and VTEC control. I removed the Comptech ESM and ran solely off the e-Manage boost cut control which is important to information provided later.

I headed out on the road and got on it a few times. The car ran just fine and I could feel the VTEC coming in at 4500 revs where I set it at. However, the overall power was down some from where I had been or expected it to be. I pulled over and adjusted the boost cut point to 2.9VDC and went back out. This time the car cut out harshly and was violent about it. When I nailed the throttle the car bucked seriously. I pulled over again and reset it to 2.8VDC and it behaved as it had on the initial drive.

So I went back, unplugged the e-Manage; switched the plugs (and the quick disconnect leads for the ESM to be used or bypassed) and went for another drive. The power had now returned and was where it should be.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to test any further and will try to resume this tomorrow or Monday. Initially I though that the interception of the ignition or injector signals was causing the lower output; which could still be the case. However, seeing that the 100mV increase in the boost cut setting brought on such a violent reaction; I have to assume the 2.8VDC is also near the limit. The e-Manage does not use the same ground reference sources as the ESM had so the overall electrical potential may be different calling for different settings.

I plan on testing this theory by running the car with the ESM intact and without the e-Manage and watch the MAP signal though the OBD-2 software. I'll then compare this with the values with the e-Manage hooked up and adjust accordingly. I suspect a setting of 2.6VDC may be needed.

Otherwise I'll need to sort through each area, additional injection and ignition timing to determine the source of the problem.

More to come...

ModAddict

Ok,...

First of all I wired the vtec as you said, and it's running fine, with no DTC or eman codes, and vtec is working great, allthough I have not tried to change the engagement point yet.

Second, I never checked where the ems was set, on the ems, but when I logged thru the eman, the clamp was at 2.70 V.

Would it help if I checked the ems clamp setting?

scalbert

The problem with checking the ESM level is that it is wired off the sensor power which provides both power and a ground. This ground appears to be at a different potential than the chassis ground. So comparisons are hard to make unless you measure this differential.

By checking the ECU read MAP values with a scan tool we can determine what the appropriate value should be. And I hope this is the reason for the lower output.

Otherwise I will need A/F ratio numbers but I can probably use the O2 voltage as a quick, albeit not absolute, reference.

As for VTEC, we will probably need to try another harness just to be sure. It will be interesting to see if the manual is correct for some cars and not for others...

ModAddict

When you changed the vtec point, did you also change the percent of vtec change?

ModAddict

The problems I was having might have been from the VTPSW connection that ended up falling off in my hands.

Now that the vtec is wired different, and seams to be running right, I should try to change the vtech point, and see if maybe it's not actually wired right.

You reconnected the ems, and left the vtech change in place, and it worked?

allmotor_2000

Steve. I assume your boost vs. timing map is all zero'd out? In addition to the boost vs. injector duty cycle...

I'd debug this the following way:

(1) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (stock ECU)
(2) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (E-manage)

If (1) and (2) are the same.... its not fuel! Hence it can only be timing. Everything else is a mechanical... and that won't change.
If (1) and (2) are not the same... check the rotary dials for fuel enrichment/leaning etc. Also... I would check the basic Air Flow map vs. RPM as well.

The only thing affecting timing would be the boost vs. timing retard map (which I assume is '0' for now) or the MAP output to the ECU.

(3) What is the ESM clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?
(4) What is the E-manage clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?

If (3) and (4) are the same... then I am stumped

My initial thoughts are the MAP voltage settings as well - I suppose the first step is to have the car run equally (using the Comptech FPR) between the E-manage and the stock ECU.

Keep up the good work!

scalbert

Nope, because that only works on the airflow adjust method which is irrelevant since we have a boost cut setting. Plus, with the fuel pressure we are having I didn't feel the need to adjust the fuel as we are throwing plenty at it.

scalbert

The ESM was bypassed and the VTEC point was at 4500 and everything worked. IMO, under boost the VTEC point can probably be a little lower but I still don't think I'll drop it much below 4300 RPM.

scalbert

My thoughts exactly… Instead of checking the voltage I read the MAP signal in the ECU with the OBD-2 software. With the ESM in place I had a maximum of 29 inHG. With the e-Manage's boost cut setting at 2.8VDC I was reading 29.6 inHG which is too high. I then dropped the e-Manage boost cut to 2.7VDC and the ECU read a maximum of 28.8 inHG which is fine.

The car also ran better pulling just as strong as without the e-Manage except for one time in 3rd gear up high. But that could have been my imagination.

To check fueling I watched the O2 (although this is not ideal it does show relative differences) with and without the e-Manage hooked up. Without the e-Manage I was reading 935mV. With the e-Manage it dropped to about 920mV which is not insignificant and probably due to the slightly lower MAP reading. But that is still well on the rich side.

I'll need to run this a bit more and get comfortable with it. I also agree that at this point if there is a drop in power it would be ignition related which I will bypass to test further. But I think it was due to the Boost Cut being too high. We'll know more as I get some miles on it.

types1967

hey steve so is what your saying i have my esm voltage at 2.91 and i can go lower?because when i set it at 2.8 the car pulled harder but i thought as i drop voltage the car leans out.i never had any issues with the esm voltage being lower but shad at comptech said if its too low the car would run very lean.i wonder if the 2.91 is too high for us.

ModAddict

It's NOT running right! I was excited when I was able to go to redline without hitting the cutout. Also with boost it was easy to disguise the absence of vtec engagement. Spending some time behind the wheel today, I discovered the vtec was not turning on, but I could go to redline with a moderate and high load. However, if I tried to ease it up to the redline, I hit the cutout! Pulled the eman harness out, and oh yeah,...that's what vtec feals like.

My wiring is not correct now, and I'm sure the problems I was having before was because of the VTPSW wire on the harness was broken. I will repair the wiring and try again, wiring as the eman manual shows.

scalbert

No, don't compare the two voltage readings. That is why I read with the OBD-2 software to confirm.

scalbert

It was most likely a broken wire. Ah, the joys of tuning...

ModAddict

Steve, just to clarify,... Did you have the vtec wiring just as it is shown in the eman manual, with the EMS connected, and it ran without bucking, and with engagement of the vtec, into the upper rpms.

because,

I tried it as such, and had done so before, and I'm back to bucking where vtec hits, just as before. The pin that broke on my harness is not used. It is the VTPSW end that gets cut and is not used. I will ring out the other vtec wiring on the harness to check for continuity.

ModAddict

good continuity on vtec wiring thru the harness

scalbert

Yes, that is correct. I have the VTEC control wired up exactly as it is shown in the e-Manage manual and it is working correctly. This should work fine as people have used the VAFC prior to the e-Manage to control VTEC engagement.

scalbert

We'll get it figured out; there has to be something identifiable. You may want to stick a DMM on the VTEC signals and see what they are doing and when.

ModAddict

rotary settings 7-8-D
JP1 1-2
JP2 1-2
JP3 2-3
JP4 1-2 (on)
JP5 off
JP6 off
JP7 off

and,

In the support tool in the "Main Unit Setting Information", does it show; (mine did not)

---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------Airflow Meter1
---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------VTEC out
--Airflow Meter Pulse Input-----In Use------VTEC in
Airflow Meter Pulse Output-----In Use------VTM out

scalbert

My Switch and Jumpers settings are the same. However, my Main Unit Settings Information is different. It only shows Airflow Meter 1 In Use. I'll confirm this later though.

ModAddict

That is what mine showed also, but the Support Tool manual show it as I posted it, so that's why I asked.

I keep thinking I need to enable the VTEC somehow in the software, since I have not changed it. Did it work for you before you changed the vtec settings, or did you change it right away?

scalbert

I had mine changed from the moment it went in the car.

ModAddict

I'll try that just to see.

ModAddict

Well I've been fooled again,...or I'm a fool again???

I changed the vtec on(4800)/off(4600) and logged a short run, and yes vtec comes on and off just as it's supposed to. The problem is not related to vtec. It was cutting out just after the factory vtec was set, so I was fooled into thinking it was the vtec.

So the vtec is fine, but it is still bucking right before 5500rpm, just like a rev limiter.

ModAddict

OK, so following your lead Steve, I'm going to try setting the eman boost limit to 2.7v, (across the board?), and bypass the EMS, to see where I'm at with this.

ModAddict

I lowered the vtec to 4500/4400, by-passed the EMS, set boost cut to 2.70, and hit the rev limit at the same spot, (5500+/-). Lowered the boost cut to 2.65, and still hit the rev limit at the same place. I threw plent of boost at it in the lower rpms with no problem.

Somebody needs to tell this e-man the rev limit is 7500, not 5500!
I'll go back thru the ingnition wires.

allmotor_2000

The 5500 rev limit occurs when the ECU isn't getting receiving data on all the parameters its expecting to get data - usually it pops a DTC after 2-4 cycles of this happening.

I don't know if the E-manage controls the rev-limiter?!?

ModAddict

Well that helps me understand why it's happening. I guess it's back to the harness with the DMM. (digital multi meter??)

It doesn't.

ModAddict

I've rung out every wire, plug. and socket, in every direction, and continuity checked out in every case, so at this point I think I can rule out the harness.

99%StockAV6

How are you testing it? A 5500 rpm rev limit is normal in park or neutral.

ModAddict

Didn't know that either. I'm driving, usually in second gear of the 5AT.