DEPRESSED!!! 221WHP with SUPERCHARGER!!!???!!!
09-20-2007, 02:47 PM
#241
THE J35A2...
Originally Posted by New Image
my headers are now in. my aem eugo is also in. my a/f is a flat 10~11.2 throughout the power band.
i am still getting misfires, but now only in cylinders 1,3,4,5,6. wierd why cylinder 2 stopped misfiring?
i am running pretty rich, and am thinking perhaps the densos are fouled out. ill order new ones and see what happens. other than that i am stumped as to why i am misfiring.
the only thing i havent checked yet are the injectors, but i dont see why it would be that.
i am still getting misfires, but now only in cylinders 1,3,4,5,6. wierd why cylinder 2 stopped misfiring?
i am running pretty rich, and am thinking perhaps the densos are fouled out. ill order new ones and see what happens. other than that i am stumped as to why i am misfiring.
the only thing i havent checked yet are the injectors, but i dont see why it would be that.
09-20-2007, 09:19 PM
#245
09-22-2007, 02:46 AM
#246
Daily Driver '01 CLS
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you should take it in to a pro man, unless you own a shop then i really dont know you cause i didnt read all 10 pgs either...in my concerned opinion, i think you might be wasting money ordering stuff and doing trial and error bullshitting. i mean you aint gonna get accurate advices here cause we aint even there!. take it in to a mechanic who knows his shit and beat some respectable cars for us man.
stay cool.
stay cool.
09-22-2007, 02:50 PM
#248
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I don't post much ... and when I do, I don't usually talk smack ...
BUT ... that video of you sliding says a great deal.
Don't even bother working on the car anymore ... just get out there and keep redlining it and doing power slides and what not ... you won't have it for long anyways ...
Make my 2003 more rare
BUT ... that video of you sliding says a great deal.
Don't even bother working on the car anymore ... just get out there and keep redlining it and doing power slides and what not ... you won't have it for long anyways ...
Make my 2003 more rare
09-22-2007, 03:48 PM
#249
Blown is Best
Originally Posted by Blieb
I don't post much ... and when I do, I don't usually talk smack ...
BUT ... that video of you sliding says a great deal.
Don't even bother working on the car anymore ... just get out there and keep redlining it and doing power slides and what not ... you won't have it for long anyways ...
Make my 2003 more rare
BUT ... that video of you sliding says a great deal.
Don't even bother working on the car anymore ... just get out there and keep redlining it and doing power slides and what not ... you won't have it for long anyways ...
Make my 2003 more rare
09-22-2007, 06:55 PM
#250
Please.......... driving a car hard has not proven anything in reliability.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
09-22-2007, 07:07 PM
#251
Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
Please.......... driving a car hard has not proven anything in reliability.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
no offense, but the CLS is more like a 10k-15k (TOPS) sport / psuedo lux car. hell, ive seen them for sale around chicago for less than 7 or 8 grand!!
09-23-2007, 08:08 AM
#253
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I didn't say anything about reliability. BUT --- I would say it is a proven fact that when you abuse something you shorten it's lifespan.
The car is fun to drive, it's fast, it handles nice ... I don't have to drive like a stunt man to appreciate it.
You can take your car to the track or a skills course. Driving like that on public roads is asking for trouble. Sure, the car can take a turn at 60mph, but why would I do that in a parking lot or residential neighborhood?
Stomping out 0-60 off every red light (often with a video camera in hand) just seems juvenile to me.
What if someone from another business got in their car and started backing out in that parking lot? What if the car gripped, or didn't slide and hit another car?
Lots of race videos on a public roadway ...
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=viper62382
He had another CL ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1jcV...e=user&search=
The car is fun to drive, it's fast, it handles nice ... I don't have to drive like a stunt man to appreciate it.
You can take your car to the track or a skills course. Driving like that on public roads is asking for trouble. Sure, the car can take a turn at 60mph, but why would I do that in a parking lot or residential neighborhood?
Stomping out 0-60 off every red light (often with a video camera in hand) just seems juvenile to me.
What if someone from another business got in their car and started backing out in that parking lot? What if the car gripped, or didn't slide and hit another car?
Lots of race videos on a public roadway ...
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=viper62382
He had another CL ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1jcV...e=user&search=
Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
Please.......... driving a car hard has not proven anything in reliability.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
There's nothing wrong with driving the CLS hard. The more modded you go the harder you SHOULD drive it.
Buy an econobox if your not willing to push the limits of your $30K sport lux car. Or shut up about it.
09-23-2007, 08:12 AM
#254
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It sounds unfortunate ...
I think the model discontinuation combined with auto-transmission problems contributed a great deal accelerated value drop.
But also, any CL is at least 5 years old ...
I think the model discontinuation combined with auto-transmission problems contributed a great deal accelerated value drop.
But also, any CL is at least 5 years old ...
Originally Posted by BubbaMarkTL
no offense, but the CLS is more like a 10k-15k (TOPS) sport / psuedo lux car. hell, ive seen them for sale around chicago for less than 7 or 8 grand!!
09-24-2007, 01:15 PM
#257
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an update is that i am no longer getting misfires on all cylinders. now its on cylinders 1 and 6. i havent changed anything other than changing the coils last week, so this has taken a wierd but interesting turn. and i can spin my wheels in second. power is good. hope this will get resolved soon.
09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
#258
So any luck with the car so far? Whats fixed/still wrong with it? Lets try and get this back on topic so we can help out a fellow acurazinee
edit: guess you posted a minute earlier then me. Keep us posted on any updates this could help other members in the future who face similar problems.
edit: guess you posted a minute earlier then me. Keep us posted on any updates this could help other members in the future who face similar problems.
09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
#259
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it was still misfiring on all cylinders even after i changed the coils, but it fluctuates. compared to on all cylinders, now its not 2 and 4 anymore. my last code was for 1 and 6, but i ahve thrown 1 3 5 6 misfires. 2 and 4 have stopped. wierd
09-24-2007, 04:06 PM
#262
Senior Moderator
A few people on the TL side in the past have gotten misfires from a failing O2 sensor.
09-24-2007, 08:10 PM
#264
Senior Moderator
i believe it was the front
09-25-2007, 04:44 AM
#266
Never had a clean run
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Bad readings from an exhaust leak on my O2 sensors caused my car to run like shit. Could be exhaust leak or bad O2 sensor/s. Exhaust leaks can cause major performance problems and are so subtle that they're hard to find. Lift your car up and use a stethescope w/o the drum and try to find a leak (pre sensors of course).
09-25-2007, 10:19 AM
#267
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Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Are you running the 3" alt. pulley with the 4040252 belt?
09-25-2007, 10:20 AM
#268
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Originally Posted by rtatsutani
Bad readings from an exhaust leak on my O2 sensors caused my car to run like shit. Could be exhaust leak or bad O2 sensor/s. Exhaust leaks can cause major performance problems and are so subtle that they're hard to find. Lift your car up and use a stethescope w/o the drum and try to find a leak (pre sensors of course).
im waiting for new spark plugs
09-25-2007, 07:09 PM
#270
Blown is Best
IK22's come gapped from the factory at .032" (.8mm). IK20's which are the stock heat range/replacement are gapped at .044" (1.1mm)
http://densoiridium.com/sparkplugspecs.php
http://densoiridium.com/sparkplugspecs.php
09-27-2007, 01:04 AM
#274
Hmm, since I live close by i'll try dropping by and ask Denso, that or if I don't have time i'll just give them a call. Denso IK plugs are mor euniversal and as such aren't geared towards any specific car as much as another brand, thats why they tend to protrude less into the combustion chamber due to universal fitment.
09-27-2007, 01:23 AM
#275
Blown is Best
For FI, the smaller gap works fine. Plus, they do not advise regapping the iridums since the electrode is so fine and delicate. Regapping can very easily break off the tip if not done correctly.
Just install the IK22's as they come out of th box IMO.
This is a good explanation of why you want a tighter gap as boost increases:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166831
Just install the IK22's as they come out of th box IMO.
This is a good explanation of why you want a tighter gap as boost increases:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166831
Originally Posted by Atrain
nicepeta,
More boost does not equal more power. Boost is made when you flow air through a restriction. The more boost you have on the guage, the more air is stacking up and not being used.
You can only pack some much air and fuel into the combustion chambers. Keep in mind what determines power outout of ANY gasoline engine is how efficiently it burns fuel. Air is a limiting factor in power production.
Speaking Comptech supercharger only it is based off an Eaton M62 supercharger and no intercooler. Adiabatic efficiency of the Eaton M62 is around 65% at 4-5 psi. Most Eaton's postive displacement hybrid roots blowers work like this. They offer tons of air flow down low with little boost.
Spin the blower faster and create more boost and you start to leave the efficiency range. At 9-psi and 18,000 rpm the M90 turns towards the 55% range. 55% air and the rest is unwanted HEAT. At 12-psi it is around 50% and working against you.
More heat in the air charge means less oxygen is present. The overall potential to make power is reduced. If air is denser it packs more oxygen which can be mixed with the right amount of fuel.
The second whammy is more heat means more spark resistance or the reduction of the ability for the spark to ignite the air fuel mixture. Since electricity is lazy it flows to the path of less resistance. Many supercharged engines with stock ignitions have blown the spark out under boost (as little as 6-psi). I have seen many cars with distributorless ignitions lose power from spark blow out under boost.
The easy cure is to reduce the gap on the spark plugs.
Moving on, since more boost changes the air charge compression ratio (not the static compression ratio) it always means you will be more knock constrained. This means the actual spark advance must be retarded or spark is pulled (reduced) to avoid knock.
In all my testing the rule of thumb is, 1 degree of spark on a supercharged car is worth 4-5 HP and 8-10 lb.-ft. of torque. Pull back 4 degrees of spark but add 2 psi of boost and what have you gained? You lost 18 HP and 36 lb.-ft. of torque.
Can more boost increase power output? Yes and no.
If it were always yes, then you could add 100 psi and make "X" amount of power right? Again, only so much air/fuel can be compressed into the combustion chamber and cylinders.
The key to adding more boost is to make sure you are still within the range of adiabatic efficiency of the supercharger. Cooling the air charge is the best way to add more boost but wait there is another thought.
I have seen cars with and without intercoolers and the bottom line is the cars with I/C units always make more power than the cars without I/C units. Longevity is also increased with an intercooler as it keeps you less knock constrained.
Adding an intercooler (water-to-air) to the Eaton M62 would drop the discharge temps anywhere from 50-70 degrees F. on a 80 degree ambient day. Boost would drop off slightly, but more power would be available since you can add more spark timing without knocking.
You don't want boost, you want cool dense air flow and lot's of it. The ideal hybrid roots blower spins the snot out of the supercharger but makes little to no boost and lots of air flow.
A-Train
More boost does not equal more power. Boost is made when you flow air through a restriction. The more boost you have on the guage, the more air is stacking up and not being used.
You can only pack some much air and fuel into the combustion chambers. Keep in mind what determines power outout of ANY gasoline engine is how efficiently it burns fuel. Air is a limiting factor in power production.
Speaking Comptech supercharger only it is based off an Eaton M62 supercharger and no intercooler. Adiabatic efficiency of the Eaton M62 is around 65% at 4-5 psi. Most Eaton's postive displacement hybrid roots blowers work like this. They offer tons of air flow down low with little boost.
Spin the blower faster and create more boost and you start to leave the efficiency range. At 9-psi and 18,000 rpm the M90 turns towards the 55% range. 55% air and the rest is unwanted HEAT. At 12-psi it is around 50% and working against you.
More heat in the air charge means less oxygen is present. The overall potential to make power is reduced. If air is denser it packs more oxygen which can be mixed with the right amount of fuel.
The second whammy is more heat means more spark resistance or the reduction of the ability for the spark to ignite the air fuel mixture. Since electricity is lazy it flows to the path of less resistance. Many supercharged engines with stock ignitions have blown the spark out under boost (as little as 6-psi). I have seen many cars with distributorless ignitions lose power from spark blow out under boost.
The easy cure is to reduce the gap on the spark plugs.
Moving on, since more boost changes the air charge compression ratio (not the static compression ratio) it always means you will be more knock constrained. This means the actual spark advance must be retarded or spark is pulled (reduced) to avoid knock.
In all my testing the rule of thumb is, 1 degree of spark on a supercharged car is worth 4-5 HP and 8-10 lb.-ft. of torque. Pull back 4 degrees of spark but add 2 psi of boost and what have you gained? You lost 18 HP and 36 lb.-ft. of torque.
Can more boost increase power output? Yes and no.
If it were always yes, then you could add 100 psi and make "X" amount of power right? Again, only so much air/fuel can be compressed into the combustion chamber and cylinders.
The key to adding more boost is to make sure you are still within the range of adiabatic efficiency of the supercharger. Cooling the air charge is the best way to add more boost but wait there is another thought.
I have seen cars with and without intercoolers and the bottom line is the cars with I/C units always make more power than the cars without I/C units. Longevity is also increased with an intercooler as it keeps you less knock constrained.
Adding an intercooler (water-to-air) to the Eaton M62 would drop the discharge temps anywhere from 50-70 degrees F. on a 80 degree ambient day. Boost would drop off slightly, but more power would be available since you can add more spark timing without knocking.
You don't want boost, you want cool dense air flow and lot's of it. The ideal hybrid roots blower spins the snot out of the supercharger but makes little to no boost and lots of air flow.
A-Train
09-27-2007, 01:52 AM
#276
Originally Posted by Allout
For FI, the smaller gap works fine. Plus, they do not advise regapping the iridums since the electrode is so fine and delicate. Regapping can very easily break off the tip if not done correctly.
Just install the IK22's as they come out of th box IMO.
This is a good explanation of why you want a tighter gap as boost increases:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166831
Just install the IK22's as they come out of th box IMO.
This is a good explanation of why you want a tighter gap as boost increases:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166831
Nice explanation
