I hope this is a solution to the rattling problems some people have had with their TSX. I've posted this as part of other threads, but I have been told it may be worthy of its own thread.

**************

I experienced vibration/rattling noises from both passenger and driver's side front door almost as soon as I picked up the car. The noises came mostly in the morning, on the freeway commute to work and in the evening, on the freeway commute back home. The radio sets it off too. I sent the car to the dealer once to correct the problem, and they came back with "cannot duplicate" and advice to lower the boom on the bass and/or lower the volume (yeah, some solution...I wonder if BMW dealers tell their owners to lower their radio volume?????)

I was at my wits end, until I noticed something. When I roll up the windows, all the way up, the glass squeezes so tight up against the top of the door frame that the door panel deforms slightly. Usually, when there is such a tight fit, that's a good thing because it means the car is sealed tight against the elements and is a well-designed car. But when it seals that tightly and deforms the door panel, it creates a slight space between the glass and the rubber seal at the bottom of the widow, where the glass enters the door. The door panel plastic and rubber is of such a high quality (very stiff and solid), that when the car goes over freeway/tollway bumps, the seams on the pavement, or if there is a lot of bass in the music or radio, the rubber and/or plastic vibrates (it literally humms like when you blow into the mouthpiece of a trumpet). The vibrations get transmitted very efficiently and with little power loss from the speaker/air, through the door to the rubber seal between the door and window. The rubber seal and other plastic elements that may be in the door then begins to vibrate.

This is why the vibration is temperature sensative. When the car is sitting in the sun in the afternoon, the car heats up, the rubber and plastic soften and isn't rigid enough to vibrate, or at least vibrate with as much energy (also, the gap that is created when the window seals up tight is probably minimized because the heat would expand the rubber and plastic, closing the gap enough so that the vibration will cease).

Anyway, the solution is simple. Roll up the window all the way until it can't go up anymore and seals tight against the top of the door frame. Then tap the window control down for an instant, just enough so that the window does not seal so tightly. This should decrease the pressure on the window and door, preventing the deformity in the door panel, sealing the gap between the window and rubber seal and preventing the vibration.

Since all cars have slight variations in production, the level of deformity will be different when the windows are rolled tightly up. That is why some have vibration problems and some do not. Conversely, my solution may not be a solution for all, because the gap may exist even with the windows slightly unsealed. But the root cause may be the same. In the case where the gap is too large to undo with a slight rolldown of the windows, you're going to have to find some kind of seal to close that gap while still allowing the window to move up and down through the door (like radio soundproofing material).

Anyway, I hope everyone with this problem has the chance to try the solution out and provide some feedback. Going to the dealer is a pain and is a waste of time sometimes. I hope Honda/Acura notices this problem and provides a more suitable built-in solution (but word to the wise, my Acura dealer said that Honda does not look at forums like this at all...they only respond to customer complaints and even then, they take a long time....i.e., auto-transmission breakdowns on the old Accord and TL/CL).

*************

 

I have tried this, and for those of you who saw me bitching high and loud about this problems, Gebbeth's suggestions have been the solutions to my problems.

 

Think you could "replicate" this solution to your dealer and earn a free oil change.

You rock dude.

 

Guys - just wanted to pass on some info anonymously from a Honda insider related to this topic:

"...In response to Gabbeth's thread Possible Solution To Rattling Problems , I think he's correct. To give you a little insight, I work for Honda (the reason why I'm asking you to hide where you hear this from) and today, I know of Honda R&D needing a window regulator. This perhaps is probably to research a modification to the regulator itself. Perhaps to prevent the window from going up so high? Whatever it may be, I think Gabbeth is right on the money so if you would please post and say that you have some insider info regarding this, I'd appreciate it..."

So that is certainly interesting. I just have one question ... is this ALSO related to the sqeeling sound that some of us sometimes get when rolling the window up and down that is intermittent?

 

OK..just got back from a long drive...with the radio cranked! Finally no rattles

Now here is the weird thing...after playing with the windows..up..hearing the rattle..down...no rattle...a couple times....the rattles disappeared completly even with the window up. I dont know what happened...maybe something needs to get worked in...but i cant hear the rattles at all even with the windows tight. I will try again tomorrow but this is very strange. I'm not complaining though.


I now switched my settings to treble -1, bass +1, and fad -3. The fad -3 helps alot and now i get decent bass and can crank it up. So far so good. Now if only I can figure out how to fix that rough notchy shift into 2nd and 3rd this car will be perfect.

 

Great info.

Thanks Gebbeth, Prov, Honda guy and all.

 

Actually, while reading Gebbeth's post, I thought for sure this was where HE was heading; and even though he wasn't, I wondered if it might work that way.

But it would have been hard for ME to test it, since I've never had the rattles.

 

I haven't tried the fix yet but I hope it works. I was VERY dissapointed when I went to crank up the tunes and the damn door was rattling. My 96 Accord never did that. I hope it works cuz I am going on a trip today and I need my music WITHOUT the rattling. Other than this I love the car after 5 whole days of ownership

 

Very good write up Gebbeth!

If this does turn into a solution I would suggested putting this into a letter to Client Services.

 

Just an update..went out tonight and to my disappointment my rattles were back. But as before..touching the windows down helped. I am not completely satisfied with this solution but we are definately getting closer to a permanent fix.

 

Honda/Acura needs to come up with a built-in solution. I think a window regulator will work. FDL, you have to fiddle around with the window alittle before you get the optimum solution. Again, it may also be temperature sensative (i.e., night, morning, afternoon, cold day or hot day).

Hopefully, I hope the rattling is at least subdued. I haven't had problems with the rattling in quite some time, but it is a pain whenever I lower the windows to get some drive through food, close the window and have to tap it down again.

 

Just realized something -- maybe the reason I haven't had rattles is that I OFTEN DRIVE WITH THE WINDOWS "TAPPED" OPEN JUST A TINY BIT.

It's just the way I like to drive a lot of the time.

 

Maybe. And remember...it takes very loud volume and alot of bass to produce the rattles. In my case anyways.

 

I too believe my doorlock area rattles have also improved since trying the "tap-down" window technique. For me these rattles have never had anything to do with loud music/bass. Since reading the original post, I have noticed that rolling the window all the way up does cause a slight distortion of the door frame, so we are onto something. On the downside, if I leave the window in the "tap-down" position, it makes an ugly sound when I shut the door -- so much for all that research to make the door shut sound like a tank. Bottom line though, I may not need to continue the "I have a not-always-repeatable-rattle" game with the dealer, or have an audio specialist look at it. To be continued...I hope not...

 

I mean, you're supposed to close the windows back up before you get out!

(You know, to protect against cat burglars and stuff.)

 

Yeah, looks like the tap the windows down has solved my rattles in the doors as well. I will test more when I drive by myself.

 

First of all, thanks for the help. But like someone said earlier, the perfectionist side of me wants a fix that is permanent. Has anyone had any success with dealers or know of any possible thing we could do?

 

has anyone tested the water sealing abilities of a slight bump down in the windows?

is it still water tight??

 

If you do it right, yes it is.

 

This is definately not a permanent fix. I see it as a clue as to what the problem is..bringing us one step closer to acura fixing the problem. Perhaps we should write a letter to acura...or send on through a dealer.

 

I see three possible solutions:

1) Add a device to the window mechanism (regulator?) that prevents the window from jamming up too tight on the top of the door frame. The advantage of this solution is that it would be relatively simple to implement and would not cost Honda/Acura too much money. The disadvantage is that it doesn't correct the root problem (door deformation and why it's doing that) and the regulator would have to be adjusted so that it solves the problem without creating new ones (i.e., proper sealing so there is no whistling sound from the wind, entry of water during the rainy season, decrease in is security). I guess there would also be a need for adjustment until the problem is solved.

2) Create a design around a stronger door. This may entail inserting/welding additional supports on the door panel to stiffen and strengthen it so the door does not deform when the window rolls up tight. The advantage is that this solution addresses the issue, the door as designed deforms when the window is up and allows elements of the door to vibrate. Prevent the door from deforming, and I think you solve the problem. The disadvantage to this solution is that it is a more complicated solution that may require some downtime with the car, is more expensive to Honda/Acura and may actually add weight to an already heavy car.

(3) Add foam or other vibration damping material to the door. I'm not talking about the kinda foam you get in cheap mattresses. I mean the industrial strength stuff they use on skis, airplanes. space shuttle fuel tanks. This stuff is pretty stiff and strong, but light and absorbs vibration. I think most of this stuff is sprayed on or extruded. You can open the door panel, apply where needed, reapply the door panel and let the foam stiffen. It may add enough rigidity to the door to prevent deformation and may dampen the vibration enough to prevent the rattling. Also, to the extent such foam has adhesive properties, the foam may help keep any loose door panels in place to prevent rattling.

Of course, if there are internal parts inside the door that rattle due to the extra space caused by the deformation of the door, then option 2 above is a better solution. But I believe, option 3 is the best route.

 

Well, whatever the solution..its somethign Acura has to do. But I wonder if they know about this window thing at all. Has anyone talked to their dealer about it? Or Acura?

 

 

I heard on clubtsx.com from a guy who lives in Japan that in Japan they solved the problem of the rattling front doors by changing some rubber liner or something like that that is vibrating between the body and door. They are also working on fixing the rattling in the back doors. I also heard that went the window is all the way up, something (forgot what) around I think the top of the window gets a little bit deformed (I geuss from the window pushing against it) and if you lower your window just a tiny bit the noise will go away or quiet down, but this is only a temporary solution. I have also heard that taking apart the door and tightening everything helps. Sorry if this is all just a repost but I'm new to this site and don't know what's already been said here. Hope this helps.