I had my 2004 TSX (6MT, Carbon Grey, No Navi) in for its 40k service yesterday at a local dealer. I drove the car for about 20 miles before returning home. When I pulled into the garage, I saw a 3" wide solid band of oil on my driveway. Upon a quick inspection, the oil in my TSX was completely depleted. Interestingly, though, neither the oil nor check engine light came on.

I immediately had the car towed to the dealer, and they admitted fault. They are currently "evaluating the situation." Here are my questions:

- Given the above, what is the likelihood that damage was done to my engine? If not immediate, can damage surface later?
- Should the dealer give me a new engine or do an engine rebuild? If so, how does this affect my resale value? Would an Acura dealer take my car in on a trade if I had a rebuilt engine? If so, for how much less?
- Is there history of Acura doing buybacks on cars that they wreck?

What's my best recourse in this situation? The dealer was very apologetic, so the ball may be in my court to make the necessary demands.

 

did they forget to reinstall the oil pan drain plug or what?

 

It looks like they accidentally had double gaskets on the filter, so it leaked pretty quickly, albeit not as bad as if they'd left the pan plug off.

 

Assuming that your oil pressure light functions properly (ie last time you started it did you see it on and then shut off) then I would say given that it didn't come on during your drive home that your okay.
Asking the dealer to do anything advanced, like overhaul/replace engine will spell trouble for you.....the best mechanics work for themselves, they can make more money that way - the one's who rush and make there money that way or are crappy work at the dealers....I would suggest you ask them for a credit toward future service and that's it.

 

^^ Agreed. Ask for an extended warranty for the engine instead (because they messed up), + free servicing (for causing you trouble). I'd say an extension of 2 years on the engine alone is reasonable.

 

get an oil analysis

 

^^^ I agree. The 3 inch band of oil in your driveway is a good sign that there was still enough oil to lubricate as long as there was enough for the oil pump to suck up. I would insist on a dealership extended warranty coverage for the engine that is "not limited" to any conditions or mileage. You decide how long you want, double it, and then start the negotiations with the General Manager.

 

One of the things they should determine, having your car now, is how much oil was left in the oil pan. That'll give you a good idea of whether you can expect damage from oil starvation. A uoa is also a really good idea, if you can get a sample of the oil that was in your car.

For those of us changing our own oil, this is a cautionary tale about always making sure the old oil filter gasket is on the old oil filter when you remove it. Likewise the drain plug crush washer, make sure you account for it and replace it every so often.

Good luck negotiating with them for some peace of mind.

 

What did they say when they admitted fault?

 

Originally, they didn't admit fault, but rather said that if it WAS their fault, that it could be very serious and they'd do what it takes to rectify.

I then took them over to the parking spot where my car was sitting after the service when I went to pick it up. Lo and behold, there was a lake of oil on the concrete and that same suspicious 3" band leaving their parking lot. The service advisor then said that they absolutely should have noticed that (a) when driving the car out of the service bay (b) into and out of the car wash and (c) when I was pulling out, as the SA walked me out the door.

I have pictures of the dealer lot just in case it ever comes into question where the problem started.

 

Get the oil filter off the car and take it to a reputable machine shop that deals with racing engines. They will have a special tool for cutting the filter open where you can check for signs of metal and bearing material.

If you don't find anything you should be ok. Refill it with oil, and run if there is no noise, or knocking under load, you should be OK. I'd recheck the filter again for contamination in about 1000 miles and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have the oil check after you put some miles on it.

If the motor is junk. I'd want a new long block from Acura, I'd wouldn't want or trust the dealer to rebuild it. The would most likely farm it out to a machine shop and IMO it just wouldn't be the same as a factory built motor.

 

This is one of those things (checking for the filter gasket and drain washer) that takes 1 horror story to make you check every time. Since the crush washers are aluminum, 2 uses is all I've found to be "safe". You can probably get away with more, but I would never suggest it. I used to change my father's Nissan Maxima and it used a cooper crush washer that would crush in such a way that you couldn't reuse it.

 

If the oil light never came on, dosent that mean the pressure was adequate enough during the time he was driving with low oil?

Yea, its F'ed up the dealer did this, but I dont see why it would cause any permanent damage.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

The dealer has thrown away the filter and the residual oil in the pan without providing any analysis. As far as I'm concerned, that only makes the case against them stronger. If they had run the necessary tests instead of just "listening to the engine" they'd have more of a leg to stand on when they assert that all is well.

 

Leg to stand on with who? Are you taking legal action?

 

Thanks for all the advice.

The dealer has thrown away the filter and the residual oil in the pan without providing any analysis. As far as I'm concerned, that only makes the case against them stronger. If they had run the necessary tests instead of just "listening to the engine" they'd have more of a leg to stand on when they assert that all is well.

 

In all likelihood, yes. I have already had the papers drawn up, but haven't filed them yet. I gave them until Friday to come up with a solution.

 

While I know it's a tough position to be in and this is clearly negligence on their part, I would only go with legal action at the absolute last possible moment. The bottom line is the second you give them any legal papers they will not be talking to you or helping you in any way until it is settled. The burden of proof will be on you that they actually caused any damage...at this point that sounds pretty hard to do with a picture of some oil and car that can still run. Maybe have them pay to have someone else take a look at the engine? Good luck.

 

Have you talked to the owner or the general manager? Tell them your concern about possible internal damage. Give them your remedies, most dealers are reasonable. An Acuracare extented warranty should give you peace of mind.

 

I can't believe you're even thinking about legal action. I know the dealer f***ed up, but come on you had enough oil in your engine that it even leaked onto your driveway after 20 minutes of driving. Your engine didn't overheat and your oil-pressure light never came on. That's concrete-proof for the dealer's lawyers to win the case.

All you can get out of this whole thing is maybe a few free service sessions and some sort of an extended warranty(if at all).

Your engine was not damaged and the dealer knows this, so don't expect much out of them.

 

The dealer freely admitted two things that contradict your post above:
1. They had no way to prove how much oil was left in the engine.
2. There is a very real possibility of engine damage even though there may not be signs of it yet.

 

Yes... this is the ideal route, and that meeting has been set up.

 

i have free oil changes for life cause my dealer did something like this. they forgot to tighten the drain plug.

 

damn, I want free oil change! regular oil or syn.?

 

So what happened at the meeting? Please update.

 

Sorry for the radio silence here. My initial meeting turned into a series of 3-4 meetings, eventually culminating in a session with the GM late last week. Here's what we agreed to:

- Extension of powertrain warranty to 7 yr/100,000 TVM
- Upfront cash settlement
- Handful of free oil changes

The dealer also mentioned that they've added some measures to their oil change process in an effort to head off future situations like this.

All in all, I feel like the dealer stepped up and took care of me as a customer, which is very much to their credit, both in terms of future service visits, and ultimately when the time comes for me to buy my next car.

 

You should make them pay for the oil damage done to your driveway too.

 

Good job on the deal - sounds like they did a good thing and tried to keep you as a customer. Always a good sign.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that companies like to hear about this, normally, because it gives them a chance to correct future problems. Sure, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but it is a place of improvement.

 

Was the cash settlement for the lawyer?

 

It was essentially a settlement to offset any depreciation to the car *should* future damages occur. We agreed that if engine trouble surfaced down the road, it would prevent the car from being resold as certified, thereby reducing its value. The settlement took the difference in resale value between a certified and non-certified car.

 

Haha. A $2.54 bag of kitty litter did the trick there!

 

Scary stuff, I wonder if the oil leaks right away, because then If it was right after the oil change, maybe you can catch the leak at the dealership.

I'm going to check under my car next time right after an oil change for leaks.

 

In my case, it started leaking immediately. When I first took the car back to the dealer, I saw a big lake of oil where my car had been parked after being pulled out of the service bay.

I'll DEFINITELY check for drips before I drive too far next time!