JTso's UR underdrive pulleys installation
05-19-2006, 02:19 PM
#41
Drifting
Originally Posted by rmpage
Still looking at a GTO. I've checked out a few, and can get a fairly good deal on one of the last 2006 models. I just need to take one for a test drive with my portable hand controls.
hmm.....
05-19-2006, 03:12 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by CJams
I need to get back there! I wanna re dyno in 2nd gear. They made me dyno in third and I thiink that may be why it was so low. Johnny can you pm me with a cost of the pulley set?
I dynoed in 4th which i believe is the closest to true 1:1 ratio. and i had 184.6 with just intake and exhaust.....i think u just got a bad motor man.
05-20-2006, 02:52 PM
#43
Part 2 - Dyno Results!
I just got back from the dyno and here are the results. Low end torque anyone? 
The SAE number at the dyno is actually higher than the viewer software that I used. However, I will continue to use the viewer numbers for comparison to keep things consistent. Btw, the uncorrected numbers (actual power of the day) are 204whp & 173wtq.
The SAE number at the dyno is actually higher than the viewer software that I used. However, I will continue to use the viewer numbers for comparison to keep things consistent. Btw, the uncorrected numbers (actual power of the day) are 204whp & 173wtq.
05-20-2006, 02:58 PM
#44
Drives With Hands
I wonder what load is cutting in/out around 3300-3900? Otherwise the torque gain is perfectly consistent, as I expected. Does the dyno shop use a tailpipe sniffer for A:F?
Also, doesn't this make you the first NA TSX to break 200whp using established testing metrics? Congratulations!
Also, doesn't this make you the first NA TSX to break 200whp using established testing metrics? Congratulations!
05-20-2006, 03:06 PM
#45
My overall gains are not as high as Zasker's but I think I'm very close to hitting the upper limit for NA without additional tuning. I'm happy with 200 whp and 168 wtq. 
Yes, they used a tailpipe sniffer for the A/F. You can actual see the A/F being perfectly around 14.7 in closed-loop mode and suddenly got lean during initial WOT. Then it got richer in open-loop mode.
Yes, they used a tailpipe sniffer for the A/F. You can actual see the A/F being perfectly around 14.7 in closed-loop mode and suddenly got lean during initial WOT. Then it got richer in open-loop mode.
05-21-2006, 05:18 AM
#47
Nice dyno....Thats sweet that you get a lot of low end torque since the reflash takes away some torque from 0-3000 rpm's and adds more from 3000 and up if I can remember correctly...... You should be awarded for all of your contributions to this forum 
05-21-2006, 07:17 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by ianS
I already have my pulley in order and could be waiting for another weeks or 2 to get in and I already have my dc header sitting in my garage so should I wait for the pulley and put 2 together(to save labour) or it doesn't matter and I should go install the header now?
Are you going to install a RT Cat at the same time as the header?
05-21-2006, 12:40 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by SPARKIE
Are you going to install a RT Cat at the same time as the header?
05-21-2006, 04:55 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by ianS
I already have my pulley in order and could be waiting for another weeks or 2 to get in and I already have my dc header sitting in my garage so should I wait for the pulley and put 2 together(to save labour) or it doesn't matter and I should go install the header now?
07-05-2006, 06:04 PM
#52
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Let us know how the install goes,
Jtso makes this look fairly simple, yet I feel like if I tackle it I'll have my car garaged for a few days.
Jtso makes this look fairly simple, yet I feel like if I tackle it I'll have my car garaged for a few days.
07-16-2006, 09:11 AM
#58
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$150 is not bad considering the amount of time and stress I'd end up putting in on doing the same job. Again, I don't know about letting a shop do it though because JTso did mention he torqued the Crank pulley less than spec due to it being aluminum.
08-01-2006, 12:56 AM
#59
Updates...
Some quick updates after a couple of months of using the pulleys. I recently noticed some belt squeaks during idle. It goes away when the engine speeds up which is a sure sign of worn out belt, not enough tension or both.
Today I decided to replace the belt and here is what I found. The tensioner has moved close to the limit of adjustment. The belt is all worn out and stretched 8mm longer. The new belt corrected the noise problem. So, I would suggest replacing the belt when installing the pulleys. The old belt has 10K miles on it.
Old belt tension
New belt tension Note the indicator is in the middle of the adjustment range. Which means a new belt has only half the usable life when using with the pulleys.
Belt comparison The new belt has felt like material whereas the old belt is pretty worn out. In fact the pulleys were coated with black dust from the old belt.
Today I decided to replace the belt and here is what I found. The tensioner has moved close to the limit of adjustment. The belt is all worn out and stretched 8mm longer. The new belt corrected the noise problem. So, I would suggest replacing the belt when installing the pulleys. The old belt has 10K miles on it.
Old belt tension
New belt tension Note the indicator is in the middle of the adjustment range. Which means a new belt has only half the usable life when using with the pulleys.
Belt comparison The new belt has felt like material whereas the old belt is pretty worn out. In fact the pulleys were coated with black dust from the old belt.
08-01-2006, 01:18 AM
#60
Got Phó?
Originally Posted by JTso
Some quick updates after a couple of months of using the pulleys. I recently noticed some belt squeaks during idle. It goes away when the engine speeds up which is a sure sign of worn out belt, not enough tension or both.
Today I decided to replace the belt and here is what I found. The tensioner has moved close to the limit of adjustment. The belt is all worn out and stretched 8mm longer. The new belt corrected the noise problem. So, I would suggest replacing the belt when installing the pulleys. The old belt has 10K miles on it.
Old belt tension
New belt tension Note the indicator is in the middle of the adjustment range. Which means a new belt has only half the usable life when using with the pulleys.
Belt comparison The new belt has felt like material whereas the old belt is pretty worn out. In fact the pulleys were coated with black dust from the old belt.
Today I decided to replace the belt and here is what I found. The tensioner has moved close to the limit of adjustment. The belt is all worn out and stretched 8mm longer. The new belt corrected the noise problem. So, I would suggest replacing the belt when installing the pulleys. The old belt has 10K miles on it.
Old belt tension
New belt tension Note the indicator is in the middle of the adjustment range. Which means a new belt has only half the usable life when using with the pulleys.
Belt comparison The new belt has felt like material whereas the old belt is pretty worn out. In fact the pulleys were coated with black dust from the old belt.
08-01-2006, 08:28 AM
#63
Senior Moderator
I've got a set of these on the way to me right now. Although I'm not quite having second thoughts, I'd like to know more warning signs / things to look for regarding potential dangers with this mod. I am not too mechanically inclined and will have a shop do this install for me. Is there anything I can tell them regarding torquing the pulleys or anything else to help ease troubles?
Also, I have 11k miles on my car now, would it be wise to install a new belt with these? How much does one of those cost?
Also, I have 11k miles on my car now, would it be wise to install a new belt with these? How much does one of those cost?
08-01-2006, 08:43 AM
#64
Originally Posted by Reach
I've got a set of these on the way to me right now. Although I'm not quite having second thoughts, I'd like to know more warning signs / things to look for regarding potential dangers with this mod. I am not too mechanically inclined and will have a shop do this install for me. Is there anything I can tell them regarding torquing the pulleys or anything else to help ease troubles?
Also, I have 11k miles on my car now, would it be wise to install a new belt with these? How much does one of those cost?
Also, I have 11k miles on my car now, would it be wise to install a new belt with these? How much does one of those cost?
08-01-2006, 08:55 AM
#65
Originally Posted by JTso
Well, the crank pulley is smaller to provide the underdrive. So, a small amount of belt slack is expected. Therefore, the alternator and PS pulleys are slightly larger to take up some of the slacks (also underdrive). This is how the stock belt can be used with these pulleys. The automatic belt tensioner provides the tension adjustment. There is no manual belt adjustment. The belts squeaks when it needs to be replaced or when the ribs develop cracking just like any belts. One option is to find another belt that is slightly shorter, say 15mm - 20mm. A new OEM belt is about $45.
I just ordered mine too last week and it'll be here anytime soon and that worn out belt looks pretty scary.
08-01-2006, 11:30 AM
#67
To JTso, this is an interesting find b/c I have had my 3 pc pulley set on my car for about 20-25k and the belts still look new. If you do find a belt that works better be sure to let UR know; they are always willing to listen. Also, too, you can call them directly and tell them your finding. They may have some insight into the worn out belt.
To minkl81 and others, there is nothing to be scared about. It's not like it's your timing belt. The crank pulley runs your accessory belts: power steering, alternator, A/C. As Jtso said you will see signs of a worn out belt or lack of tension: belt squealing. If you hear it just check it out.
To minkl81 and others, there is nothing to be scared about. It's not like it's your timing belt. The crank pulley runs your accessory belts: power steering, alternator, A/C. As Jtso said you will see signs of a worn out belt or lack of tension: belt squealing. If you hear it just check it out.
08-01-2006, 01:02 PM
#71
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I'm really happy with the gains, I don't feel the car is a slow as before.
The car seems to accelerate easily and the throttle response is peppy.
I did notice ever since i got the pulleys in when ever i'm at a dead stop and i'm turning, if i step on the throttle a bit too quick the tires will screech. (falikens)
I really do enjoy the car with pulleys, sometimes i do notice the power steering comes in and out depending if im at a full stop or something.
Overall its alot of fun to drive it you personally have to feel it for yourself.
The car seems to accelerate easily and the throttle response is peppy.
I did notice ever since i got the pulleys in when ever i'm at a dead stop and i'm turning, if i step on the throttle a bit too quick the tires will screech. (falikens)
I really do enjoy the car with pulleys, sometimes i do notice the power steering comes in and out depending if im at a full stop or something.
Overall its alot of fun to drive it you personally have to feel it for yourself.
08-01-2006, 01:06 PM
#72
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Hmm...i'll have to check out my belt as well. I've had them on my car for a little over two months now.
The only time i hear a squeal is when the AC is on but goes away once the car gets moving. But havent heard any squeals for a while...
The only time i hear a squeal is when the AC is on but goes away once the car gets moving. But havent heard any squeals for a while...
08-01-2006, 03:41 PM
#73
I contacted Unorthodox Racing and mentioned about the belt problem. I think the problem is the stock belt length not quite compatible with the pulley set. According to UR, the pulley set for the TSX is the same for the RSX-S but the RSX-S has a smaller stock crank pulley. Additionally, the RSX-S stock belt is 7mm shorter than the TSX belt. The outside belt circumference for the TSX is 1750mm and 1743mm for the RSX-S. This explains why the RSX-S didn't have the same belt wear problem.
One option is to replace the belt with the RSX-S belt, or even go the next shorter belt which is 1734mm. I most likely will do the 1734mm = 16mm shorter than stock which should bring the tensioner back to the stock "new" position.
Here are the info of the two belts for reference - Gates replacement p/n.
One option is to replace the belt with the RSX-S belt, or even go the next shorter belt which is 1734mm. I most likely will do the 1734mm = 16mm shorter than stock which should bring the tensioner back to the stock "new" position.
Here are the info of the two belts for reference - Gates replacement p/n.
08-01-2006, 04:09 PM
#75
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Based on the measurements provided by Jtso. The UR are .375 smaller overall diameter. Assuming my math is correct.
Overall diameters
UR = 13'
Stock = 13.375'
Overall diameters
UR = 13'
Stock = 13.375'
08-01-2006, 10:05 PM
#77
I have a question, will having an aftermarket crank pulley cause any damage to the bearings or crank over time on the k-series motors??
There were people arguing about how the pulley ruining the crank bearing because they do not have a rubber dampner like the stock crank to absorb the vibration. So the vibration goes straight to the crank and bearings. Which causes damage over a period of time.. Now this was on the older Honda motors. Not sure if it's the same on the k-series.
There were people arguing about how the pulley ruining the crank bearing because they do not have a rubber dampner like the stock crank to absorb the vibration. So the vibration goes straight to the crank and bearings. Which causes damage over a period of time.. Now this was on the older Honda motors. Not sure if it's the same on the k-series.
08-02-2006, 10:08 AM
#80
Senior Moderator
I'm sorry, I need to ask another noob question here:
Assuming I have a shop do the pulley install, would I be able to change the belts myself if I were to purchase the shorter belt and want to try running both of them to see how the load is? A quick how-to on that, and I'd be willing to test the shorter belt (K070677) vs. stock.
Assuming I have a shop do the pulley install, would I be able to change the belts myself if I were to purchase the shorter belt and want to try running both of them to see how the load is? A quick how-to on that, and I'd be willing to test the shorter belt (K070677) vs. stock.