I don't usually see too many TSX's around Indy (this place is GM heaven) but at F1 qualifications today, I saw four or five in the parking areas as I was walking in. Quite a few TL's as well. The differences between the fans of the Indy 500, Brickyard 400, and F1 are really something.

If you were here, let me know.

 

So how was the six car race????

 

i'm guessing a little more interesting since you never get to see water bottles exploding under the tires of an f1 car.

i wonder how the fans would react and what'd be thrown on the track if this happended at a nascar event. i mean, besides seeing a line of trailers pull out of the parking lot instead of cars.

 

It was bizarre. Because practice and qualifying went on like normal on Saturday, I assumed that the tire issue was solved and I had no idea that the race itself was in doubt. Nobody around me did either. Then all the Michelin cars pulled in and people realized what was happening and there was lots of booing, thumbs down, middle fingers up, etc. I saw a couple of Ferrari fans high-fiving but mostly everyone was upset at not seeing a race. We left after about 10-12 laps, when it became obvious that six cars were all we were going to see.

The ones I feel sorry for are the people who travel so far to get here. There are lots of Canadians , Europeans, Colombians, etc. I saw a group from Finland with their faces/bodies painted with the blue and white Finnish flag. There are people who camp out near the track for the entire four days. There are tons of RVs and tents around. I like the F1 crowd better than I do the crowd for the Indy 500 or the Brickyard 400. It's a great atmosphere but this time they all got hosed.

I live 15 minutes from the track so I didn't have nearly as much invested as those people. Even if they get their money back it would only be a fraction of what they spent.

 

I heard that ferrari woudn't race with the change on turn 13 or something. it was suppose to slow the cars down so the michelin guys could race. I guess most of the guys still wanted to go out, but ferrari wouldn't accept the changes. isn't there a rule about teams having 2 tire brands? sounds like poor sportsmanship on ferraris part.

 

Ferrari has been kissing up to FIA big big time and vice versa in the past years. Ferrari also tends to unilaterally do things that go against the rest of the F1 teams agree to.

About the change at turn 13, it was FIA that said if a chicane were built at turn 13 to slow cars down, FIA would remove the sanction of the race. That would mean the results of the car would not have been included in this year's F1 championship.

Not sure what 2 tire brands rule you are talking about in F1. Currently there are two tire manufacturers in F1 and it's been mentioned that soon F1 likes to go back to having only 1 tire supplier.

 

I also feel sorry for the fans who travel far to see the race. I am that political battles of F1 have been allowed to screw the very people (the fans) that are most important to bringing F1 back to glory and worthy motorsport series. This year's races have been the most entertaining in years and now this farce has flushed much postive right down the drain.

As for the Ferrari fans who were high-fiving... well, they are absolute morons and idiots. Obviously they are even qualified to be called racing fans. Driving an Acrua, of course I would like to see BAR-Honda do well. But mostly, watching a hard-/fairly-fought race is all that matters for a true racing fan.

 

It's funny how people automatically blame Ferrari for everything. You need to read up more about the issue before you come up to conclusions like that. I'm not a Ferrari fan, but just to let you know it wasn't their fault. The FIA has rules set out and they stuck by them. The Michelin teams that didn't race are to blame, not the FIA or Ferrari. In my opinion, Michelin is to blame for it since they are the ones that brought the shitty tires for their teams.

 

your right, michelin is to blame. but all i'm saying is ferrari could have played ball. especially since the f1 market in the US isn't taking off so fast. It would have been nice to show a little professionalism, and race for the fans. That was all i'm saying.

 

I was there, sad to say. I was driving an '05 ABP TSX with tinted windows and a Scottish flag on the driver's side rear window.

Wasted a lot of money that weekend and had a lot of fun up until the start of the race.

 

yes, many were to blame, and fans should get their money back!

i also say fuck the FIA, most teams should split from them in 2008, and race their own series. anyone know if honda backs this new team?

 

I don't know if you have mis-read my posts about FIA and Ferrari kissing up to each other (which is a fact) and those "Ferrari Fans" being idiots, etc. and think I am blaming Ferrari.

I agree 100+% that it is Michelin's fault. That banked corner has been at the Indy track for decades! Modern F1 has been racing there for past 6/7 years, there's no excuse Michelin should have been surprised by the extreme vertical load on the tires through that corner.

However, for drivers' and fans' safty and for putting on the race as expected by so many fans, especially those traveled great distance. FIA should have at least agreed to Michelin's secondary set of tires or the temporary chicane. They could have put the race on and then go back to Europe and punish the hell out of Michelin all they want. Now it's negative spiral from what was NOT done in a comprimise.

First goes to Michelin
Second goes to FIA

The Ferrari team in this case has handled the whole thing the only way they shoud and could have.

 

True the track was banked all this while. But I read that it was just resurfaced. Michelin started this whole thing, but in the end, the FIA should have resolved it for the benefit of the spectators and not pull off a macho race regulation face and not budge. The teams who pulled out are not to blame, as Michelin advised them that the tires could not be guaranteed safe in that corner. No team manager in their right mind would send in their driver at speeds of above 150mph without tyres that could withstand the stress. Imagine if a driver died!

Ferrari says that it was not involved with the chicane decision. Actually, FIA said that if the chicane was put in, they would not sanction it, hence no points would be counted. Jean Todt said that if there were no points, they wouldn't race (souce: Interview). So in the end, FIA did not put the chicane in. Which would be worse? 9 teams not getting any points or every team not getting any points? Turning this GP into an exhibition race would have been a better decision. I think the FIA should have thought about the decision with their wallets this once. It gives F1 a bad image in the US.

 

However, a F1 "exhibition" race without Ferrari running would have been not quite "complete"

Yes, the track has been re-surfaced and shaved, etc. I heard that Indy 500 itself and the Nascar have had to reschedule some testing, etc. to work things out after the resurfacing. Still no excuse for Michelin, Bridgestone got their tires to work, why can't Michelin?

 

Actually, I think you should do a little more reading.

The fault lies not on one party. The fault lies on everybody.

Michelin is obviously at fault for not doing enough lateral load testing on their tires.

The teams are at fault for failing to carry on the race and requesting only max performance tires.

The FIA (primarily that idiot Max Moseley) is at fault for refusing to accept the series of compromises that were agreed upon by 90% of the teams.

So blaming just Michelin isn't fair. And plus, the other teams that ran the recommended tire pressures did not experience any problems. Only Toyota had problems because they chose to run lower tire pressures than the other teams.

 

Putting the chicane the day of the race would have been very stupid. The teams go to the races knowing what kind of conditions to expect. None of the teams were prepared to deal with a chicane which would have been extremely dangerous, since they all practiced the previous days without one. So they already knew their braking points, etc. With no practice on a chicane, there would have been several accidents. They were better off slowing down on turn 13 like they were told to. Another thing, is the 2nd set of tires that Michelin brought in were no good either. Michelin stated that the 2nd set was also unsafe. Plus, why would the FIA change the rules and the last minute to give other teams an unfair advantage? The blame goes to Michelin for bringing shitty tires and to the teams for not putting on a show. They weren't going to score as high as they could have, but some of them could have still scored some points. Plus, they could have used the race for further testing on their equipment. Oh, and I forgot one thing. Michelin stated that some of their teams had a different tire construction than the ones that blew up. So, there was a possibility that some of those teams could have raced just fine.

 

you think the F1 drivers are dummies?!?! Adding the chicane would not have caused accident because of a new braking point. Even F3000 drivers would be able to handle a new chicane without problems...

That reflects how much you know about racing, especially F1

This conversation is over.

 

Just to let people know....the re-surfaced track was diamond hone and the cars running the Indy 500 used the same spec Firestone tires in '05 as they did in '04.

Regardless, the main thing that upsets me is the lack of working together(FIA, Michelin, Teams, Ferrari)...after the problem was discovered....that is where us, the fans were let down. Alternatives where offered up to provide us all with a good "Show", but everyone couldn't/wouldn't work together to impliment a solution, instead everyone sat in their own corner of the sandbox resulting in the fans getting the short end of the stick.

 

if you read more, some of the drivers stated that it would be very dangerous for them to put a chicane without them practicing. go read some of the f1 sites so you can see what the drivers, teams and fia say about this before you start spouting crap.

 

And of course they would be given extra practice session if the chicane was put in! Don't assume I am a F1 , I have been an avid F1 fan/follower for years!


F1 right now is a loadful of crap, political pickering between FIA, and teams. Drivers saying those things are more like to play nice with FIA...

 

05_TSX_GP: While I agree with you about the drivers being able to handle the chicane you may not be considering some other issues here. The cars were NOT prepared to deal with changing the course that radically. They run like 78 laps there? That's 78 more instances of hard braking (and it would've been the 2 or 3rd hardest braking point on the whole track). The teams may not have brought the correct brake discs or cooling ducts to prepare for that. Just suppose they put the chicane in and someone has a brake failure like BAR did at Canada and they get hit (or hit someone). What kinds of liability are opened up there? Suppose that the front tires were not able to handle the increased stress there for a race distance? There's a hell of a lot more to this than just put a chicane up and run the pretend-race.

I maintain the only truly equitable solution would have been for the Michelin cars to run the course (as designed) how they can run it on the equipment they brought. If that means taking the turn at reduced speed so be it. If that means pitting for tires every 10 laps so be it. If that means not taking the turn at all and using the pit lane instead so be it. The tires were not so unsafe to prevent them from turning a lap. That was all posturing crap from the teams that got screwed by their supplier.

 

OK, I can understand and agree with your reasoning. That's fair.

Bottom line is the same as what I wrote from the beginning:
1st to Michelin
2nd to FIA

US GP at Indy is toasted... I wish they'd consider running a 2nd race in Canada next year in addition to Montreal, and make that North American GP