Leather Seats cracking?
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3rd Gear
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From: annapolis
Leather Seats cracking?
I have about 900 miles on my TSX, and i've noticed that the drivers seat is starting to get "creases". Now, i am a big guy, and the seats have to endure a lot. Is this normal, or do I have to worry about the seat cracking? What can I do to prevent this? Is there a leather "treatment" that I can buy?
Instructor
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From: Charleston, SC
quigley0,
This is normal, and is one way to tell leather from vinyl. As long as you periodically clean and treat the leather with a product like Lexol, it shouldn't progress into an actual crack. That occurs when the leather is allowed to dry out, which leather conditioner will prevent. Before you condition it you should clean stained areas with an appropriate product besides saddle soap. Saddle soap leaves a residue. Also, if you have the parchment or quartz leather it will eventually stain from the dyes in your clothes unless you clean it. The whole process of cleaning and conditioning isn't hard as long as you do it regularly.
This is normal, and is one way to tell leather from vinyl. As long as you periodically clean and treat the leather with a product like Lexol, it shouldn't progress into an actual crack. That occurs when the leather is allowed to dry out, which leather conditioner will prevent. Before you condition it you should clean stained areas with an appropriate product besides saddle soap. Saddle soap leaves a residue. Also, if you have the parchment or quartz leather it will eventually stain from the dyes in your clothes unless you clean it. The whole process of cleaning and conditioning isn't hard as long as you do it regularly.
2400 Watts in a TL...Why?
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Originally Posted by quigley0
I have about 900 miles on my TSX, and i've noticed that the drivers seat is starting to get "creases". Now, i am a big guy, and the seats have to endure a lot. Is this normal, or do I have to worry about the seat cracking? What can I do to prevent this? Is there a leather "treatment" that I can buy?
Try to look at your leather like your skin. It needs periodic cleaning and moisturizing. My personal favorite, as well as many other people, is Lexol. They make a cleaner, like soap, spray on the cleaner and wipe it away with a damp cloth or microfiber towel. The Lexol Conditioner I try to use at least once a month, it makes the seats soooo soft, and it helps the leather retain it's moisture, thus preventing cracking and some folds in the leather. I find the back seats don't need it as much as the front do simply because of less wear (I don't usua;;y have people in the back) and lower ammount of sunlight ( I would assume the front seats get more throught he windshield).
hope that Helped,
Patrick
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
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From: Charleston, SC
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!! 
Armor All is ok (some will argue with me) for vinyl, but it is death to leather. Trust us - use a leather product like Lexol. It's easy and it works.
Armor All is ok (some will argue with me) for vinyl, but it is death to leather. Trust us - use a leather product like Lexol. It's easy and it works.
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: colorado
Take it back to dealer
Mine and other's on this group have noticed the same thing happening. I took mine in and the dealer is replacing the bottom portion of my drivers seat.
Originally Posted by quigley0
I have about 900 miles on my TSX, and i've noticed that the drivers seat is starting to get "creases". Now, i am a big guy, and the seats have to endure a lot. Is this normal, or do I have to worry about the seat cracking? What can I do to prevent this? Is there a leather "treatment" that I can buy?
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 126
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From: Charleston, SC
ianz,
I've heard that some folks use Lexol monthly. I do it quarterly, but things tend not to dry out down here (Charleston, SC) - instead they mildew :-). Use it on the high wear areas whenever you do a thorough cleaning of the interior. It take only a little more time than something like Armor All.
I've heard that some folks use Lexol monthly. I do it quarterly, but things tend not to dry out down here (Charleston, SC) - instead they mildew :-). Use it on the high wear areas whenever you do a thorough cleaning of the interior. It take only a little more time than something like Armor All.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by ianz
Thanks landerso!
i better go look for some lexol at canadian tire or something.
so for weekly cleaning and stuff, i can just use a soft cloth and a little water?
i better go look for some lexol at canadian tire or something.
so for weekly cleaning and stuff, i can just use a soft cloth and a little water?
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 126
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From: Charleston, SC
ianz,
All you need are a couple of clean cloths, one of which needs to be damp. The instructions are simple and the results are worth it. I've never noticed a shine from Lexol, but I know KingV is a Zaino fanatic (Hi, Tom :-).
All you need are a couple of clean cloths, one of which needs to be damp. The instructions are simple and the results are worth it. I've never noticed a shine from Lexol, but I know KingV is a Zaino fanatic (Hi, Tom :-).
Racer
Joined: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by landerso
ianz,
All you need are a couple of clean cloths, one of which needs to be damp. The instructions are simple and the results are worth it. I've never noticed a shine from Lexol, but I know KingV is a Zaino fanatic (Hi, Tom :-).
All you need are a couple of clean cloths, one of which needs to be damp. The instructions are simple and the results are worth it. I've never noticed a shine from Lexol, but I know KingV is a Zaino fanatic (Hi, Tom :-).
Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Atlanta
Originally Posted by landerso
quigley0,
This is normal, and is one way to tell leather from vinyl. As long as you periodically clean and treat the leather with a product like Lexol, it shouldn't progress into an actual crack. That occurs when the leather is allowed to dry out, which leather conditioner will prevent. Before you condition it you should clean stained areas with an appropriate product besides saddle soap. Saddle soap leaves a residue. Also, if you have the parchment or quartz leather it will eventually stain from the dyes in your clothes unless you clean it. The whole process of cleaning and conditioning isn't hard as long as you do it regularly.
This is normal, and is one way to tell leather from vinyl. As long as you periodically clean and treat the leather with a product like Lexol, it shouldn't progress into an actual crack. That occurs when the leather is allowed to dry out, which leather conditioner will prevent. Before you condition it you should clean stained areas with an appropriate product besides saddle soap. Saddle soap leaves a residue. Also, if you have the parchment or quartz leather it will eventually stain from the dyes in your clothes unless you clean it. The whole process of cleaning and conditioning isn't hard as long as you do it regularly.
Saddle soap is ok to use, but it's really only needed if the leather is very dirty, old or dry.
Saddle soap is designed for use on harshly treated leathers that are outside 24/7, making it useful in convertables and old, dry leather. Lexol and other products don't have the punch to rejuvinate like saddle soap does.
When leather ages, it looses its finishing compounds that protect it from drying out and fading. The residue you speak of is the finishing compounds in the soap. Leaving this on is more practical on a horses saddle or leather work boots.
The trick to using the saddle soap is wipe the area first with a damp cloth, apply the soap on a cloth, rub it in and let it penetrate for a few second and then wipe off the excess.
Again, I wouldn't use it a a regular method of cleaning, but's it is great for tough jobs.
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From: CT, Land of Reality TV
Originally Posted by quigley0
I have about 900 miles on my TSX, and i've noticed that the drivers seat is starting to get "creases". Now, i am a big guy, and the seats have to endure a lot. Is this normal, or do I have to worry about the seat cracking? What can I do to prevent this? Is there a leather "treatment" that I can buy?
the left-side bolster or the middle area ?
I am guessing you're talking about the side-bolster.
It creases every single time getting in the car you move your butt over it. Creases more if you rub over with your full weight.
I've gotten used to lifting myself OVER the bolster when getting in.
On a side-note and this may open up another flood of guesses/debates:
Isn't the side bolster NOT leather but vinyl ?
Is it OK top use leather conditioners on vinyl ? like the dash, door panel...?
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: St. Louis
Originally Posted by blackjackman
On a side-note and this may open up another flood of guesses/debates:
Isn't the side bolster NOT leather but vinyl ?
Is it OK top use leather conditioners on vinyl ? like the dash, door panel...?
Isn't the side bolster NOT leather but vinyl ?
Is it OK top use leather conditioners on vinyl ? like the dash, door panel...?
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From: CT, Land of Reality TV
Originally Posted by STL
There is no debate, the top of the side bolster is leather while the side vinyl. It's just than some people around here have been propogating bad info.
Just not sure, still confused - too many opinions out there you know ?
If you have come across references to CONCRETE proof or some kind of "official" statement, please provide.
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by blackjackman
I'd love to go in peace believing it's genuine leather.
Just not sure, still confused - too many opinions out there you know ?
If you have come across references to CONCRETE proof or some kind of "official" statement, please provide.
Just not sure, still confused - too many opinions out there you know ?
If you have come across references to CONCRETE proof or some kind of "official" statement, please provide.
Proof? We dont need any proof - STL just told us the way it is. Didnt you read what he said, there is NO debate.
Three Wheelin'
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From: St. Louis
If you want CONCRETE proof, then you should take it to a leather shop and just ask them. By running a finger across the surface (with moderate pressure), I can easily feel the difference between the vinyl and leather. Both the perforated sections and the tops of the side bolsters feel the same, whereas the sides of the bolsters feel thinner and more flexible. Others here (and on other boards) have also offered similar feel tests. Furthermore, the very creases being talked about in the original post of this thread is typical with real other -- and not with vinyl.
FDL read an Acura press release than mentions perforated leather and mistakeningly delcared only the perforated sections are real leather.
FDL read an Acura press release than mentions perforated leather and mistakeningly delcared only the perforated sections are real leather.
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by STL
If you want CONCRETE proof, then you should take it to a leather shop and just ask them. By running a finger across the surface (with moderate pressure), I can easily feel the difference between the vinyl and leather. Both the perforated sections and the tops of the side bolsters feel the same, whereas the sides of the bolsters feel thinner and more flexible. Others here (and on other boards) have also offered similar feel tests.
Actually, someone did take it to a leather shop...
Originally Posted by sauceman
While going to my friends' shop, where they repair shoes and also work with leather in general, I had to show him the interior of the car for him to know what kind of leather to use to fabricate a small cushion to add height to my center armrest. The car being clean, I want to have something that matches well.
When he sees the interior, he says, "Well we don't have this here, it's leatherette (translated from French "cuirette"). I says, " What do you mean?", and he answered, "It's fake leather".
And part of my world of ilusions came crashing down. Is that true? If so, why do they call it leather if it's not genuine?:'(
When he sees the interior, he says, "Well we don't have this here, it's leatherette (translated from French "cuirette"). I says, " What do you mean?", and he answered, "It's fake leather".
And part of my world of ilusions came crashing down. Is that true? If so, why do they call it leather if it's not genuine?:'(
And I'm still not saying you are wrong, in fact I hope you are right (although its not that big of a deal). There just hasnt been any definitive information.
Originally Posted by STL
FDL read an Acura press release than mentions perforated leather and mistakeningly delcared only the perforated sections are real leather.
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From: CT, Land of Reality TV
Originally Posted by STL
If you want CONCRETE proof, then you should take it to a leather shop and just ask them. By running a finger across the surface (with moderate pressure), I can easily feel the difference between the vinyl and leather. Both the perforated sections and the tops of the side bolsters feel the same, whereas the sides of the bolsters feel thinner and more flexible. Others here (and on other boards) have also offered similar feel tests. Furthermore, the very creases being talked about in the original post of this thread is typical with real other -- and not with vinyl.
FDL read an Acura press release than mentions perforated leather and mistakeningly delcared only the perforated sections are real leather.
FDL read an Acura press release than mentions perforated leather and mistakeningly delcared only the perforated sections are real leather.
You can place all your trust in what THAT leather shop said and it ends there - for you and those who choose to accept it.
There's been way too much opinions based on feeling this & that and guessing.
Final verdict - for anal me personally - is someone knowledgeable looks at a tiny sample under microscope - the scientific way. No ifs, ands, nuts, guesses, feelings, opinions.
Three Wheelin'
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From: St. Louis
And here is a later post from that very thread:
Originally Posted by CDR
Updating an old but potentially important thread ...
I had a vinyl/leather/plastic interior magician work on my TSX dashboard today to repair screwdriver marks the dealer tech had put into the console area while replacing the audio unit for the "console lights out" problem. (Amazing -- looked like new when he finished.)
When he was done he was giving me interior care advice -- and the BIG surprise was his assertion that virtually all of the "facings" in the seats are real leather, not just the perforated center sections.
In his opinion and detailed inspection -- with his 25 years of experience repairing vinyl and leather in cars -- not only are the center perforated sections leather, but also the seat and side bolster facings, all of the front headrest material, and the main facings of the rear seat. The rear headrests are part leather, and the top of the console cover is real leather. The backs and skirts of the seats are vinyl, as are the inserts in the doors.
I know this is different from the accepted wisdom on the board -- which I accepted. Because I was skeptical, he carefully went through each part of the seats and showed me why each part was "real" or vinyl, like the way it pulls and gives, the texture patterns and variations, etc. He even looked inside thread holes to see whether there was leather or fabric inside. He works on new-ish cars for dealers (when they botch something!), so he has plenty of current experience on all makes, common and luxury, and it seems unlikely he would be fooled by even the latest vinyl.
For me, the implication is how I take care of the "previously vinyl -- now believed to be leather" sections -- I'm getting out the Lexol!
I had a vinyl/leather/plastic interior magician work on my TSX dashboard today to repair screwdriver marks the dealer tech had put into the console area while replacing the audio unit for the "console lights out" problem. (Amazing -- looked like new when he finished.)
When he was done he was giving me interior care advice -- and the BIG surprise was his assertion that virtually all of the "facings" in the seats are real leather, not just the perforated center sections.
In his opinion and detailed inspection -- with his 25 years of experience repairing vinyl and leather in cars -- not only are the center perforated sections leather, but also the seat and side bolster facings, all of the front headrest material, and the main facings of the rear seat. The rear headrests are part leather, and the top of the console cover is real leather. The backs and skirts of the seats are vinyl, as are the inserts in the doors.
I know this is different from the accepted wisdom on the board -- which I accepted. Because I was skeptical, he carefully went through each part of the seats and showed me why each part was "real" or vinyl, like the way it pulls and gives, the texture patterns and variations, etc. He even looked inside thread holes to see whether there was leather or fabric inside. He works on new-ish cars for dealers (when they botch something!), so he has plenty of current experience on all makes, common and luxury, and it seems unlikely he would be fooled by even the latest vinyl.
For me, the implication is how I take care of the "previously vinyl -- now believed to be leather" sections -- I'm getting out the Lexol!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: St. Louis
blackjackman,
Being the engineer that I am, I thought I was anal -- but you take the cake!
Seriously dude, just run your fingers across all the different surfaces!! Take a little time to investigate it yourself, and you will see that easily feel/see the difference between vinyl and leather. I think you are just getting confused reading the old stuff. The consensus was that the facings are leather and the sides are vinyl.
Being the engineer that I am, I thought I was anal -- but you take the cake!
Seriously dude, just run your fingers across all the different surfaces!! Take a little time to investigate it yourself, and you will see that easily feel/see the difference between vinyl and leather. I think you are just getting confused reading the old stuff. The consensus was that the facings are leather and the sides are vinyl.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: St. Louis
Here are a couple threads:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1968
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15212
Note the first one is the older one that both fdl and I quoted already. Here are a couple quotes from the later one:
and
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1968
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15212
Note the first one is the older one that both fdl and I quoted already. Here are a couple quotes from the later one:
Originally Posted by MarkPinTx
Not to pick a bone fdl, but I think the consensus eventually did emerge that all the upper (butt and back touching) parts of the seat are leather.
The "wear lines" that you refer to, I assume, are wrinkle-looking things. I bet a decent cleaning would make them go away. Just conditioning wont help. Need lexol cleaner (or some cleaner) or 6:1 water:woolite.
Good luck.
The "wear lines" that you refer to, I assume, are wrinkle-looking things. I bet a decent cleaning would make them go away. Just conditioning wont help. Need lexol cleaner (or some cleaner) or 6:1 water:woolite.
Good luck.
Originally Posted by blb
The entire seating surface is leather, as are the seat sides facing outward. The sides of the seats facing the console are vinyl. You can see and feel the contrast between the inner sides of the seats and the non-perforated leather seating surfaces sewn to the inner sides. Honda did exactly the same leather-vinyl split on the Pilot and on the last TL. At least on the TSX, the headrests are leather. On the Pilot, they are vinyl.
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From: CT, Land of Reality TV
that's fine STL.
Just one thing to chew on:
I am pretty certain Japan is the undisputed world leader in applying material science to the art of imitation and I am not talking about imitation crabmeat.
Japanese are the master at this for decades. If this were 1984 I'd believe what I feel. But this being 2004 I doubt the feeling test.
Just one thing to chew on:
I am pretty certain Japan is the undisputed world leader in applying material science to the art of imitation and I am not talking about imitation crabmeat.
Japanese are the master at this for decades. If this were 1984 I'd believe what I feel. But this being 2004 I doubt the feeling test.
Three Wheelin'
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From: St. Louis
I understand where you are coming from, but you should take few minutes and try the feel test (or the pinch test like other have said). You should be able to at least confirm the material used on the sides of the bolster is different that what is used on the tops of the bolster. So unless you think Acura used actually used three different materials (two versions of vinyl and one leather) to make these seats then it fairly easily to deduce the fact the seats facing is leather. I highly doubt that they would use two different vinyls in the production of these seats because it would yield any cost savings. The fact the material used on the tops of the bolster looks and feels just like the perforated material (which is no one really disputes is leather because an Acura press release about the TSX menationed perforated leather) only reinforces my claim. Furthermore (and like many others have said) only real leather creases like people are seeing with the tops of the bolsters.
Three Wheelin'
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From: St. Louis
You might also want to re-read what I quoted from CDR. It sounds like he too was really skeptical until someone (who really knows leather and vinyl) took the time to show him the little differences.
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