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I have something to declare, once and for all. I've been reading many AcuraZine threads in the past 24 hours or so. I've seen some talk about the Sport Hybrid wood being fake. But it is not. First off, we know for fact, that the P-AWS wood on all trim is fake. But on CDN and USDM Sport Hybrids either of a technology or advance trim, the wood IS REAL. Let me elaborate. I've used the following links to compare different pictures of the same wood on Sport Hybrids, and the wood from the center console. All of the wood has complete different wood patterns, now if it were fake the wood would be the same. But the patten is different folks, and if the wood is real on the center console, it would be safe to bet your rear-end the wood on the doors & dash are real aswell. Now, in previous generation RLs, such as my 2011, real wood came bundled with the Advance package, Acura marketed it as genuine wood grain. Now in the RLX in the USDM SH, they call it Chestnut wood, and way north in Canada, the wood is called Unique wood grain interior trim; this means, the wood is real, folks. On all three of the these SH-AWDs of tech and adv. the wood pattern is different.
Now, if you were so keen and cared enough to, you could do the same with SH listing & press photos of the wood panels on the RLX with different vehicles. I'd be willing to bet, the wood pattern is different. This is great improvement, as in my 2011 RL the wood is only real on the dash, now with the SH, they've made all wood panels real! Except those on the wheel and shifter(P-AWS only) Now for a little backround, this wood is probably manufactured by a Japanese high-end furniture company called Tendo, as they manufactured the wood for my 2011 RL(same Sayama plant as RLX), Tendo also does the wood for the Lexus LS. It would almost be safe to say, the RLX shares its wood with the Lexus LS, ditto for the manufacturing plant & process.
That's the Tendo Mokko link, you can see they made the wood for the last gen Legend(2G RL) and the current and last gen Lexus LS. Now if you speak Japanese, you could contact them with that link their automotive website, to see if the they make the wood for the RLX, or maybe it says it on the Honda Legend press releases?
Okay, now this scares me, it states "exclusive simulated wood accents on upper portion of glove box and center console", what? Then how is the grain DIFFERENT? If this "wood" is simulated and comes out of a machine, the grain should be the same? Um...
I remember that in my in-home interview, the subject of wood grain came up.
Their only reply was, "Does it really make a difference?"
I don't know how to take that.
Maybe it's real in some markets, and not real in other markets, and whether or not it's real is determined by the availability of the product and whether in that market they stand a chance of being accused of an assault on the rain forests.
^^^^
The German luxury automakers would not ask that question. That's one way Honda/Acura differs from them. When you look at an E-Class, the Mercedes website prominently states "handcrafted wood".
Personally it doesn't matter to me, but it does matter to enough people that maybe Acura SHOULD ask the question.
...but it does matter to enough people that maybe Acura SHOULD ask the question.
I dunno. Maybe they think those people who worry about wood are not people who buy Hondas, even the top of the line Hondas like the Legend and NSX Sport Hybrid.
The tone in her voice when she responded, I have to say, was that of someone who's been asked the question enough to be slightly irritated at hearing it again.
:-)
In their defense, wood does not matter to me. Visually, I find little to prefer in the RLX when compared to the 4G TL with aluminum trim.
Maybe it's real in some markets, and not real in other markets, and whether or not it's real is determined by the availability of the product and whether in that market they stand a chance of being accused of an assault on the rain forests.
:-)
I believe the 2014-2015-2016 Acura MDX uses faux wood for the US market, and real wood for the Canadian market.........
^^^^
The German luxury automakers would not ask that question. That's one way Honda/Acura differs from them. When you look at an E-Class, the Mercedes website prominently states "handcrafted wood".
Personally it doesn't matter to me, but it does matter to enough people that maybe Acura SHOULD ask the question.
You're right, and I agree. I personally am happy that Acura devotes more of its resources to proper engineering and metallurgy so that my car does not have frequent flat bed trips to the dealer unlike my business partners' and neighbors' pricier Euro vehicles with "handcrafted wood."
You're right, and I agree. I personally am happy that Acura devotes more of its resources to proper engineering and metallurgy so that my car does not have frequent flat bed trips to the dealer unlike my business partners' and neighbors' pricier Euro vehicles with "handcrafted wood."
Isn't it just outrageous?
For all our bitching here, if you decide to look at Consumer Reports predictions of reliability for all kinds of Mercedes and Cadillac, you'll stop looking pretty quickly.
If I told you about a friend's problems with a 2015 S550 4Matic, you would never look in that direction.
The PAWS RLX has simulated burled walnut trim
The SH RLX has simulated chestnut trim
The PAWS burled wood grain runs perpendicular to the dash. The SH chestnut grain runs horizontal to the dash. It is just esthetics.
I read nowhere that real wood trim is on CA RLX models. From those pics it is the same grain pattern in my SH RLX.
I mentioned the wood pattern differences with the wood trim steering wheel accessory so it must be ordered carefully if you choose the wood trim steering wheel.
FWIW virtually all real wood trim in autos is thin wood veneer laminated to the plastic form structure. As veneer is 'shaved' from the lumber, dozens of slices may produce virtually the same pattern, and therefore not be 'unique'. Unless you go for a Rolls, Bentley or some very high end crafted car, you are pressed to tell the difference. But I think Audi's exposed grain real wood trim is the best I have seen. Lexus uses bamboo in the ES400h as bamboo is considered a sustainable wood product.
Personal taste IMHO. How many real wood trims have you seen that look fake and vice versa. I prefer it to carbon fiber (which looks plastic to me) or fake metal trim (which we have some of as well).
Considering the amount of cost in this amazing drivetrain which is much beyond the sticker price of this car, this type of compromise is more than acceptable. I was told the cost of building a Sport Hybrid is well above the price point it stickers. And some would argue not using trees is part of the environmental focus of Honda, hybrids and the green movement (as is the hidden exhaust feature). Lexus is now moving towards simulated leather (NuLuxe) which is remarkable in initial appearance.
It is low on my personal list of stress points.
Last edited by TampaRLX-SH; 07-19-2015 at 11:52 AM.
I have something to declare, once and for all. I've been reading many AcuraZine threads in the past 24 hours or so. I've seen some talk about the Sport Hybrid wood being fake. But it is not. First off, we know for fact, that the P-AWS wood on all trim is fake. But on CDN and USDM Sport Hybrids either of a technology or advance trim, the wood IS REAL. Let me elaborate. I've used the following links to compare different pictures of the same wood on Sport Hybrids, and the wood from the center console. All of the wood has complete different wood patterns, now if it were fake the wood would be the same. But the patten is different folks, and if the wood is real on the center console, it would be safe to bet your rear-end the wood on the doors & dash are real aswell. Now, in previous generation RLs, such as my 2011, real wood came bundled with the Advance package, Acura marketed it as genuine wood grain. Now in the RLX in the USDM SH, they call it Chestnut wood, and way north in Canada, the wood is called Unique wood grain interior trim; this means, the wood is real, folks. On all three of the these SH-AWDs of tech and adv. the wood pattern is different.
<Image #1 Removed for Brevity>
<Image #2 Removed for Brevity>
<Image #3 Removed for Brevity>
<Image #4 Removed for Brevity>
Look at wood pattern.
<Image #5 Removed for Brevity>
Wood pattern is different.
<Image #6 Removed for Brevity>
Wood pattern is even more different!
19 July, 2015:
Dear good sir,
I respectfully disagree with your statement, referenced above (please note that I have removed the images you provided in the interest of reducing bandwidth transfer for page rendering and for readability). I believe that you have erred in the statements "All of the wood has complete different wood patterns, now if it were fake the wood would be the same." If I am interpreting your underlying assumptions correctly, you are surmising that if a synthetic (or as you say "fake") wood material were utilized, then each component instance would have an identical grain "fingerprint". That is, for example, each beverage holder lid feature would have the same grain pattern when examined between individual vehicle examples.
It has been my observed experience that multiple individual parts may be manufactured with a synthetic wood grain appearance and *not* have a truly identical appearance. Imagine if you will, that a sub-tier material supplier provides a composite sheet of synthetic wood material in an overall dimension of 36 by 48 inches (914.4 x 1219.2 mm) and with a non-uniform appearance across the entirety. Now, let us posit that the sub-component being constructed from said material is only of dimension 4 by 6 inches (101.6 x 152.4 mm). Ignoring waste, we could obtain 72 individual pieces from the provided raw material. Each of those individual components would have an appearance slightly different from the other.
It would be difficult to conclusively state that the material of construction used is, or is not, natural wood based simply on such a small random sampling of images. Modern manufacturing techniques are more than capable of producing simulated materials that pass a casual observation test such as you have performed. I would further conjecture that with the limited number of physical samples to examine (total RLX production and per region distribution), it would be highly improbable that you could quantitatively prove the hypothesis.
However, it would be interesting to crowd-source (as the kids say) a sample set from the RLX owner/lessees of this internet-forum. If you were able to provide a baseline image and guidelines for duplication, each member could provide a quasi-identical version of their vehicle. If a statistically significant number of samples were collected, it may be possible to perform a regression analysis to prove or disprove similarity.
So, in summary, while I respectfully disagree with your initial conclusion, I am intrigued by the possible subsequent data and look forward to reviewing the possible collaborative results. If I may be of assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.
For all our bitching here, if you decide to look at Consumer Reports predictions of reliability for all kinds of Mercedes and Cadillac, you'll stop looking pretty quickly.
If I told you about a friend's problems with a 2015 S550 4Matic, you would never look in that direction.
Exactly! Outrageous is the right word. I don't get it.
A neighbor/friend had a brand new Mercedes SUV. It was a total piece of junk - always failing. She got fed up with it, but unfortunately traded it for a Range Rover. Last time I saw it (last week), it had the patented, RR "wounded elephant" look, kneeling on one "knee" as the air suspension at one corner was failing. Brand new vehicle, less than a year old.
A neighbor/friend had a brand new Mercedes SUV. It was a total piece of junk - always failing. She got fed up with it, but unfortunately traded it for a Range Rover.
I don't understand why people do this. That's a classic case of "out of the pot and into the fire".
Here's my two cents on the real wood vs fake wood debate:
Real wood looks great but is easily marked up or damaged, so manufacturers cover them with layer after layer of polyurethane (or similar protection) so they look nice and shiny and new for many, many years. By the time the protective coating is shined up, it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to tell if the underlying substrate is real wood or fake (as evidenced by the debate in this thread and others). For THAT reason, I could really care less if my RLX has real or fake wood. It looks kind of cool and it isn't going to get scratched/nicked up by every little bump and that is all I care about.
I believe the 2014-2015-2016 Acura MDX uses faux wood for the US market, and real wood for the Canadian market.........
This is a given, when considering the price tags of the US and the "equivalent trim-level" Canadian models.
Back in 2014 when the US/Canadian exchange rate (@ 90 something cents) is not as extreme as is now, the Canadian models cost 5-8K more than the similar trim-level US ones.
So not only the top trim-level Canadian MDX has "real wood interior", it also has "surround view back up camera" and "headlight washer", which aren't available on even the top-most US trim model at any price.
This is a given, when considering the price tags of the US and the "equivalent trim-level" Canadian models.
Back in 2014 when the US/Canadian exchange rate (@ 90 something cents) is not as extreme as is now, the Canadian models cost 5-8K more than the similar trim-level US ones.
So not only the top trim-level Canadian MDX has "real wood interior", it also has "surround view back up camera" and "headlight washer", which aren't available on even the top-most US trim model at any price.
Great point! Wouldn't this hold true for the RLX, too? From what is everyone saying neither the US nor the Canadian RLX have real wood.......
This is a given, when considering the price tags of the US and the "equivalent trim-level" Canadian models.
Back in 2014 when the US/Canadian exchange rate (@ 90 something cents) is not as extreme as is now, the Canadian models cost 5-8K more than the similar trim-level US ones.
So not only the top trim-level Canadian MDX has "real wood interior", it also has "surround view back up camera" and "headlight washer", which aren't available on even the top-most US trim model at any price.
The removal of the headlight washers is a purely cost cutting measure as US regs (currently) do not require them on HID lights. Most other countries (including Canada apparently) do.
[Fake wood] looks kind of cool and it isn't going to get scratched/nicked up by every little bump and that is all I care about.
Some years back, I had a German market 1969 300 SEL 6.3.
Real wood can be a pain in the neck after a while. A serious drain on temporal resources trying to keep it straight.
But if we're accepting that there aren't many real advantages to real wood, then I wonder why we'd act like it's important to have fake wood?
If you're going to have big, wide spaces like the way the centre console turned out on the RLX, then I guess you're struggling for some way to make it contrast.
You don't want black plastic...you don't want hot metal...more leather would be expensive....
Like cu2wagon pointed out above, to me it looks like the manufacturer has a massive sheet of this stuff and just punches out the shape required, giving all the similar trim pieces a different grain. To be honest, I think that is kind of neat and reduces the cookie cutter effect inside the cabin- really, you could "personalize" the interior a bit, buy switching to grains you like (if that matters to you, of course).
While real wood, without heavy layers of top coat looks beautiful, it's just not reasonable to have. It would be a nightmare in my eyes to keep it perfect. The durability of the synthetic material is much more attractive. Once that top coat layer goes on, who cares if it's real or fake. I, for one, can't even tell the difference.
It would be a different story if this was a Bentley or Rolls Royce with real wood. But in the ~60k market, I say durability over anything else!
I respectfully disagree with your statement, referenced above (please note that I have removed the images you provided in the interest of reducing bandwidth transfer for page rendering and for readability). I believe that you have erred in the statements "All of the wood has complete different wood patterns, now if it were fake the wood would be the same." If I am interpreting your underlying assumptions correctly, you are surmising that if a synthetic (or as you say "fake") wood material were utilized, then each component instance would have an identical grain "fingerprint". That is, for example, each beverage holder lid feature would have the same grain pattern when examined between individual vehicle examples.
It has been my observed experience that multiple individual parts may be manufactured with a synthetic wood grain appearance and *not* have a truly identical appearance. Imagine if you will, that a sub-tier material supplier provides a composite sheet of synthetic wood material in an overall dimension of 36 by 48 inches (914.4 x 1219.2 mm) and with a non-uniform appearance across the entirety. Now, let us posit that the sub-component being constructed from said material is only of dimension 4 by 6 inches (101.6 x 152.4 mm). Ignoring waste, we could obtain 72 individual pieces from the provided raw material. Each of those individual components would have an appearance slightly different from the other.
It would be difficult to conclusively state that the material of construction used is, or is not, natural wood based simply on such a small random sampling of images. Modern manufacturing techniques are more than capable of producing simulated materials that pass a casual observation test such as you have performed. I would further conjecture that with the limited number of physical samples to examine (total RLX production and per region distribution), it would be highly improbable that you could quantitatively prove the hypothesis.
However, it would be interesting to crowd-source (as the kids say) a sample set from the RLX owner/lessees of this internet-forum. If you were able to provide a baseline image and guidelines for duplication, each member could provide a quasi-identical version of their vehicle. If a statistically significant number of samples were collected, it may be possible to perform a regression analysis to prove or disprove similarity.
So, in summary, while I respectfully disagree with your initial conclusion, I am intrigued by the possible subsequent data and look forward to reviewing the possible collaborative results. If I may be of assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you and good day,
P. Earnest Goodman
Fair enough, makes perfect sense to me. To be honest, if I was fooled that the wood was indeed real, I still think it looks great. I like the grain, and you shouldn't have a problem fooling your friends. But I do believe that Audi and Lexus have the best wood trims available, beside Rolls and Bentley as many have pointed out.
Seen it. Something to note, that I mentioned, it talks about how the wood is sent to Japanese furniture maker, Tendo. Tendo is the same company that made the wood for the 2G RLs(if so equipped), that's why I had initially brought up the argument. As I thought it was a bit silly that the SH cost 10k more than my 2011 RL, yet Acura opts for fake instead of real wood(featured on the 2011 Adv.).
Like cu2wagon pointed out above, to me it looks like the manufacturer has a massive sheet of this stuff and just punches out the shape required, giving all the similar trim pieces a different grain. To be honest, I think that is kind of neat and reduces the cookie cutter effect inside the cabin- really, you could "personalize" the interior a bit, buy switching to grains you like (if that matters to you, of course).
While real wood, without heavy layers of top coat looks beautiful, it's just not reasonable to have. It would be a nightmare in my eyes to keep it perfect. The durability of the synthetic material is much more attractive. Once that top coat layer goes on, who cares if it's real or fake. I, for one, can't even tell the difference.
It would be a different story if this was a Bentley or Rolls Royce with real wood. But in the ~60k market, I say durability over anything else!
I agree with everything you just said. But the wood grain, especially in direct sunlight looks great; even though it's fake, it's a pretty good imitation of the real stuff; I'm troubled to tell the difference. But some have said that it doesn't matter if its real or fake, I would have a problem with it being fake. But then again, there's always a trade-off, and I wouldn't say the wood is one of them.
This is a given, when considering the price tags of the US and the "equivalent trim-level" Canadian models.
Back in 2014 when the US/Canadian exchange rate (@ 90 something cents) is not as extreme as is now, the Canadian models cost 5-8K more than the similar trim-level US ones.
So not only the top trim-level Canadian MDX has "real wood interior", it also has "surround view back up camera" and "headlight washer", which aren't available on even the top-most US trim model at any price.
My thoughts: we must understand, that while the MDX and RLX are verily related vehicles, with similar engines, interiors, tech. & interior designs. The cars are very different in one aspect; where they are built. The RLX is built in Sayama, Japan, and the MDX is built in Lincoln Alabama(both USDM & CDN, of course). The Canadian MDX does get the real wood, while the US doesn't as many have pointed out. But as you mention due the exchange rate and inflation(maybe not) of the dollar bill, CDN models end up costing several thousand more; which warrants the addition of content. Surround view, Headlight Washers, and the Real open-pore wood(best wood in an Acura product) are additions to the MDX. It seems reasonable that real wood is not in the RLX. Since the MDX is built in the states, and designed in the USA, the wood for the MDX most likely, is United States sourced. Now think about this, it wouldn't be worth the cost to have that same MDX wood shipped to Japan where the RLX is designed and manufactured; considering the RLX is a pure JDM design, where all the Acura firsts come from. Considering the RLX is such a low-volume vehicle, it would almost seem silly that Acura would spent their pinnacle dollars on Sport Hybrid, in their worst selling vehicle. Having the same real wood in the RLX, would be biting off more than Acura could choose.
Straying away from the topic of this thread. Both the RDX and ILX were released as 2013 MYs, and receive a refresh for the 2016 MY, after 3 MYs of being on the market. 2016 is RLXs 3rd MY, we can suspect Acura will do a refresh, most likely with some more dramatic sheet metal, and a few nips and tucks in other areas, similar to higher volume products like ILX and RDX. But the RLX is very distant to the rest of the North American Acura lineup. The RLX is that of a JDM creation, but RLX or 5G Legend serves as the Honda or Acura flagship not only US and Canada, but several other world markets. Having a refresh on this car, which is already very slow selling in all world markets, would almost be horrid to Acura revenues. But the RLX differs from the 2G RL, where in 2005 and 2006 they sold almost 30k units in the US RLX sales never even got upto there So I hope the 2017 Acura RLX refresh will come, but I doubt real wood will be part of it.
Just chiming in to say: I dislike 'Wood' trim, real or fake in a car. Modern design and safety / durability require the use of thin, moldable trim pieces, so who are we fooling.
I like low gloss, patterned trim, either aluminium or carbon fiber.
When 'wood' is used in everything from $20K econocars to $100K luxury sedans, it's 'luxury' value has dissipated. Plus it's an anachronism like the silly over-sized radiator grilles some designers still favor.
Just putting this out there in case a product planner/desiger reads this ;-)
^^^^
The German luxury automakers would not ask that question. That's one way Honda/Acura differs from them. When you look at an E-Class, the Mercedes website prominently states "handcrafted wood".
Personally it doesn't matter to me, but it does matter to enough people that maybe Acura SHOULD ask the question.
I think we've had this discussion before but you nailed it again.
When a Acura executive or representative has to ask the question "Does it really make a difference?" when talking about Luxury Materials. Then you know right away that Acura has no clue about the Luxury market or its consumers.
Acura really needs to start differentiating themselves from the premium mainstream market if they want luxury consumers to start considering them.
I think Acura still believes that it's better to spend R&D and manufacturing dollars (yen?) on things like robust electronics, sound metallurgy and advanced engineering to achieve long life and durability rather than on "handcrafted wood." I do get that many "luxury" buyers don't care about those things (and wouldn't understand them if they did), especially those many who lease, rather than buy, German cars.
I think Acura still believes that it's better to spend R&D and manufacturing dollars (yen?) on things like robust electronics, sound metallurgy and advanced engineering to achieve long life and durability rather than on "handcrafted wood." I do get that many "luxury" buyers don't care about those things (and wouldn't understand them if they did), especially those many who lease, rather than buy, German cars.
Agreed. However, this entire topic invites discussion of the phrase, "addition by subtraction." Fake wood looks like the formica kitchen cabinets of the 1970's; incredibly durable, yes, but the first thing torn out of a house by a new owner.
The fake wood evokes a sense of pathos.
I think Acura still believes that it's better to spend R&D and manufacturing dollars (yen?) on things like robust electronics, sound metallurgy and advanced engineering to achieve long life and durability rather than on "handcrafted wood." I do get that many "luxury" buyers don't care about those things (and wouldn't understand them if they did), especially those many who lease, rather than buy, German cars.
I respectfully disagree.
The German brands spend R&D money after the same areas you mentioned above and then some.
Honda doesn't want to take Acura into the true luxury arena because it will cost them too much money, reliability will drop and they will struggle for many years until they can prove themselves in that arena....from a shareholder perspective its better to keep making money competing against premium mainstream models rather than going after the big boys.
I would also disagree that many "Luxury" buyers wouldn't care or understand certain advanced engineering, Metallurgy, etc. Luxury consumers looking at AMG's, M-Models, etc care and are very knowledgably about the products. True, the person looking at a base 3 or 5 series might not but your only kidding yourself if you think the average Acura consumer is any more knowledable......last year at the auto show I overheard two people talking about their RDX and that the new PAWS on the RLX was Acura's new AWD system...
Honda doesn't want to take Acura ito the true luxury arena ....
At the level of the Legend, they're mainly playing with things that they might want to roll out into the mainstream at some point, and they're just doing things for those few Honda and Acura buyers who would prefer to hold onto Honda instead of moving on to Mercedes.
Lexus LS460 v. Honda Legend? No contest. It's the LS460, hands down.
If there are esoteric considerations like MPG in a big car, or handling and torque vectoring in a big car, the Honda stands out.
But the Lexus is in a completely different class of car. In its own right, it is a huge value even though it costs more than the Legend. To beat an LS460 at its 120 grand price point, you're going to get up around a quarter million and you're looking at Bentleys or Rolls Royce.
I don't think Mercedes offers the same kind of quality and value combination that the LS460 offers.
But anything over a hundred grand, I have a very, very hard time justifying. I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to do that, even if you can point to what kind of value and quality you're getting for the money.
While this thread seems to have drifted far afield from the OP's topic I will respond to George's comment.
I agree that a LS460 Lexus is a great car with more luxury than the RLX, however, the most important thing to me in a car is how it drives. I have always looked at Acura as the Goldilocks drive.....just right. Lexus/Toyota cars are too soft a ride and not enough road feel. The Germans, particularly BMW is too harsh. I find Acura, specifically my '05 RL and my Sport Hybrid as the right mix of handling and comfort for me. That is why I have stuck with Acura [along with their usual reliability].
I agree that the LS460 is a fine car, but now that the RLX is (I think but haven't actually checked) about as roomy on the inside, and with the driving performance of the SH-AWD, as noted by Malibu, I see little value in paying the +50K for an LS460. I think Acura has indeed hit the sweet spot; I just wish they would make more of them.
07-18-2015, 11:13 PM
Now, in previous generation RLs, such as my 2011, real wood came bundled with the Advance package, Acura marketed it as genuine wood grain. Now in the RLX in the USDM SH, they call it Chestnut wood, and way north in Canada, the wood is called Unique wood grain interior trim; this means, the wood is real, folks. On all three of the these SH-AWDs of tech and adv. the wood pattern is different.
Now for a little backround, this wood is probably manufactured by a Japanese high-end furniture company called Tendo, as they manufactured the wood for my 2011 RL(same Sayama plant as RLX), Tendo also does the wood for the Lexus LS. It would almost be safe to say, the RLX shares its wood with the Lexus LS, ditto for the manufacturing plant & process. 
That's a classic case of "out of the pot and into the fire".
So I hope the 2017 Acura RLX refresh will come, but I doubt real wood will be part of it.
