This is a great quote
When you say you want the start button back, what do you really mean by that?

 

How much has the GUI changed from XP -> Vista -> 7? I'd argue it hasn't changed much from Windows 95 to 7. Oh no, you gotta relearn the start menu once every 18 years!

 

But they need people to see and use metro so that the can use their massive marketshare in the PC market (over 1 billion users) to encourage app developers to write metro apps that work on the PC and tablet, which will make their app market grow faster. This plan is working already, there's already 65,000 apps in the windows app store in only six months, no way it would be that high if metro wasn't on the PC. They're not reversing this plan in any way whatsoever, it's vital for the future of the company and if it wants to have any significant share in the tablet and smart phone market.

Apple did a similar thing with the launch of the iPad, they used the leverage of their iphone app catalog and made it so iPhone apps ran on the iPad, and with a little work a developer could make a universal app that ran on both. If Apple made developers start over with it's initial small market status it wouldn't have taken off as quickly.

With 8.1 it seems MS will be extending this even more with Windows Phone, allowing an app that runs on the PC to be ported more easily to the tablet/phone, though MS considers a tablet to be a PC. Win RT already shares some code with Windows Phone (Win PRT) but that should expand completely this year and it should be similar to iPhone/iPad universal apps except these will run on PC/Win RT/WP.

If you take away the PC the whole thing crumbles...

Also MS was hoping OEMs would get on the touch screen/fancy trackpad bandwagon and there would be many affordable PCs with either of those capabilities, but there hasn't been very many, that I've seen.

I worked on a touch screen VAIO laptop a few months ago that had 8 on it and found it fun to use, I think MS is on to something it's just that OEMs are letting them down...again. So people blame MS because their cheap ass PC has a shit screen and shit trackpad that doesn't work great with 8 because they get a subpar experience when using it. Maybe MS needs to get stricter about which hardware they can use?

After years Macs still comes with the best trackpads and even though Apple intentionally limits the trackpad's capabilities in bootcamp to just the basics it's still better than what I've seen from anyone else in Windows.

If this shit keeps up MS will make their own laptop with a great touchscreen and great trackpad and price it competitively and it will come with no crapware (except for bing toolbar )

Though I will blame MS for having a weak tutorial when first booting an 8 PC, I never saw it besides the screen that say move your cursor to any corner to do shit. Apparently no one listened, if they had made the tutorial required and showed users what happens when you go to all 4 corners it would've been much better.

That's all I have to say about that...

 

"It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
-- Steve Jobs, May 25 1998

If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse".
-- Henry Ford

 

People want to find a way to access their stuff as fast as possible, in this case our programs. The Start menu wasn't the best way to do it as you needed to look through lots of menus to find it. Going into Metro and typing it in is better. In OSX and IOS, 90% of the time I type what I want into spotlight to get there.

 

I don't understand the point of this analogy. Microsoft took away the start menu and the people hate it. It's not like the people are partying in the street because they are happy that it's gone and proclaiming "Damn, why didn't we think of that!?!"

Microsoft is trying to figure out why they want it back. We gave you this great thing instead, why do you hate it?

 

Vista GUI compared to XP was garbage, windows explorer was unusable. They did a great job with Win 7.

 

I think the biggest issue is the lack of a visible start button not the replacement of the start menu by the start screen. Also the PC booting to the start screen instead of the desktop some find annoying.

If they add the start button and boot to desktop then most of the complaints will go away. Also in 8.1 there is an "All programs" button on bottom of the start screen.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a normal person use start menu search or aero snap, pinning to the taskbar Most people use windows 7 just like XP and never know there's new features to simplify things.

What I'm most curious about with them adding back the start button is what happens to that button in a metro app, does it go away? if so people will get lost again, if it's always there then it will look out of place...

 

Microsoft wants to force the metro apps on us, to compete.

 

Allowing windows to boot to desktop will be the nail in the coffin for metro.

I think Whiskers hit the nail on the head: "People want to find a way to access their stuff as fast as possible, in this case our programs"

 

I hate Metro...

 

-Microsoft needs a non Windows app store to compete in todays world. They also need a tablet of some form.
-Windows phone isnt paying the bills
-They have the brilliant idea to allow windows 8 people to get access to the store to be different then Mac OS. And to sell a stripped down (RT) version.
-Backfires. Mainly because they didnt market it directly. Also didn't really consider people who just want to use Windows programs.
-8.1

 

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/b...ng-better.aspx

 

More 8.1

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/b...ndows-8-1.aspx

 

^In there they confirm start button and hint at boot to desktop...

Pretty much everything else they discuss has already been mentioned in this thread

 

The confirm a corner with the windows logo on it and the ability to boot into different areas of the metro screen.

 

and that the windows logo will always be visible in the taskbar on the desktop just like the old start button

they didn't specify metro only screens...

 

Keep reading, it talks about booting to all apps but not to desktop. They just mention the logo, not what it does.

 

M$: Ok, here's the start button everyone has been screaming about and demanding........except it's not "really" a start button....but at least we gave you what you asked for, right?

 

I've being playing around with 8 two months now on a non-touch screen laptop. It's still got weird quirks that a regular mouse movement would activate the start screen. It's not Win per say, but I really don't like this up-in-the-corner bs.

 

:

here's the start button being used on the desktop to bring up the start screen.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YTR8_-UVmHc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

An here's a photo taken from the same presentation showing the "Go to the desktop instead of Start when I sign in" option

 

They are putting some sort of Start icon in there that launches something, maybe.

 

I got an update maybe a week or so ago, and the stupid menus are still off screen, but after the start metro thing, it automatically kicks to the traditional desktop within 30 seconds. Maybe be a beta of 8.1 but something changed after the update.

 

It might not even be a windows logo, we just don't know...

Shit, it might not even launch anything, wouldn't surprise me

Microsoft doesn't know their ass from their elbow...

 

So apparently as the story goes some guy in the Windows phone subreddit got a Lumia 920 on ebay and lo and behold it comes with a pre-release build of WP 8.1 Blue and he's taking lots of screenshots of the devices. It seems like it's his first WP so he doesn't know his way around as some so he's having some issues spotting changes between the current OS which he's never used and the one he has.

So far we've seen notification center, the ability to close apps from the multi-tasking screen, week view in the calendar



Notice that notification center seems to be working without requiring updates from the 3rd party apps to make it work.

Current Notification center icon (subject to change) next to phone icon






Like Windows 8.1 you can sort apps by most used


Interested in the Call and SMS filter...maybe a way to block spam calls and texts or what they're calling the do not disturb mode that'll be coming? Or just a test app that MS puts on internal dev phones?



There's also evidence of geo-fence support. So far the phone hasn't been remote wiped and there should me more info to come. Of course this is an early build and this is all subject to change by the time of release.

This is the latest thread from OP with the phone
http://www.reddit.com/r/windowsphone..._920_off_ebay/

 

FYI, reportedly the 8.1 preview will be available at this link sometime today:

http://prev.windows.microsoft.com/en...eview-download

or this link:

http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=301772

Very cool security stuff coming with 8.1: automatic encryption, touch fingerprint, selective wipe, "touch to buy"...

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/wh...s-8-1-security

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Tech...id=D0IfiH7IWcn

 

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/b...w-is-here.aspx

 

preview is only available via an update so far. Looks like iso won't be made available for a day or so...

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-for-download/

 

Installing on a VM now. My installer looks like its in Klingon.

 

ISO is available via Technet sub. I got mine

 

Will be on torrent in 5 minutes then.

 

Runs pretty good so far.

 

Put that shit on your surface pro bro!

 

I did the upgrade via the windows store on my MBP. I got the ISO from TechNet though. I think I'm gonna keep 8 on my desktop for now.

Text seems a little small...

Haha! The charms menu opens closer to your cursor whether coming from the top or bottom. Though if you do Win + C it's still in the middle of the screen. Nice attention to detail.

Also they added Shutdown menu to the already amazing Win + X menu!!!! That means there ability to use just the keyboard to restart/sleep/shutdown your PC is much much easier than 8. To sleep it's Win + X, U, S.

Ok scratch that, I'll probably be upgrading my main desktop to this too because of this news.

 

I put it on Bootcamp on my Air, using it now and works fine.

Not bringing the surface with me to the US, so Ill do it in a month or so.

 

Do not install 8.1 yet. I had four programs that would not run including McAfee. I'm doing a factory restore now and will have to reload all those programs.

 

LOL you shouldn't be running McAfee to begin with...

 

Windows Defender works well. So far no real issues, tried to put it in my Surface and it told me that it wasnt compatible or something, so Ill leave it for now.

 

You're soft, do it anyways...