<rant>

What is it with M$??? All they care about is getting the product out as fast as possible, and as cheaply as possible. But everything they produce is junk. Ya it seems to be great and have fancy features but its unreliable and breaking down all the time. And now these worm hacks are getting ridiculous. 3 in the past month...come on.

Bill Gates....build a QUALITY product..spend some extra time..some extra dollars ...make it dependable and stable. We need an Acura in the software world. Performance, features, AND QUALITY AND RELIABILITY.


</rant>

 

Welcome to the world of UNIX.

And no, I don't consider M$ to be the equivalent of Ford or GM. The latter two don't have a monopoly.

 

Yes but between the 2 of them they definately have the market share. Isnt GM the biggest company in the World? And I guess I am more reffering to Ford/GM 20-30 years ago, before better products were produced by other companies. I hope the same thing happens in the software world.

UNIX (inc LINUX) is extremely stable and performs well but lacks the great interface and usability that M$ has. But maybe...one day.....

 

Agreed. And I hope it happens in less than 20 -- 30 years.

You'd like a Mac with the UNIX-based OS X, then.

 

I think things will get better. A lot of progress really hasn't been made though. Look at Windows 95 ----> Windows XP in 6-7 years?. It's still the basic concept of a windows operating system. The Macs have made a lot of progress though, but they're still MACS. They need to get over it.

 

Indeed, welcome to UNIX. Win crap is just eye candy for the feeble.


Hm. two of my FreeBSD servers have been up since the first day I built them. No constant patching, no daily reboot due to BSOD's...


I assume you mean for mass end user use? Will it really ever make it that far? I think I'll stick my my hole hawg.

-r

 

Indeed, Mac OS X strikes a nice balance of slick interface and the power of Unix. I'm a recent convert to the Mac camp. Well, not completely because I still have PC FreeBSD servers and a Windows PC for gaming and stuff. I was never much of a Mac fan prior to OS X, I thought the OS was kinda goofy to be honest. I've done some software development on OS 8/9 and it wasn't that pleasant. But X is stable and slick and there's lots of good software available for it. I'm mostly working in Java now, and X is a pretty decent dev platform.

Not sure if I'd buy an Apple desktop or not, but their notebooks are awesome. In six months or so, my PowerBook has never crashed and it "just works" - switching between multiple wired and wireless networks, working with digital cameras, MiniDV video, GPS, etc. I was impressed enough to buy an iBook for the family to use and they love it. My wife says it's the best piece of computer hardware I've ever bought, which is quite an endorsement from a non-techie person.

 

Wow, Mac user group AND TSX owner too? Haahaa.

I am a mac technician who administers Mac OSX server. For those people who hated Windows, try it out. I just got an iBook. Since then, I never sat infront of my PC again.

Nothing wrong with Macs. They provide a single package solution to computing, since they wrote their own OS (sorta) for their own hardware.

I can go on for ages about the advantages of macs. but I'll save that for some place else.

"Think Different"

 

personally i think MAC's are the solution to the world's computer problems, i dont own one but i did come very close one time recently. the mac is a wonderfull and stable machine. very reliable and using UNIX it is a very stable OS. i did not buy the MAC only because i have no software for it. and all my software is not avaiable in MAC versions.
i know a MAC can emulate a PC very well. but i didnt see the point to get a mac and use virtual PC on it exclusivly. kinda defeats the purpose. perhaps some time in the future a MAC will be on my desk.

 

I have never owned a mac...but from what I know the reasons I wouldnt buy a mac are the lack of application support (there is just so much more software for windows) and the fact that you are limited to one hardware maker.

 

Yup. Windows hasn't changed much.

If you want to see how window interfaces have progressed, check out any UNIX box running GNOME or KDE. Some of the customizations out there are jaw-dropping.

 

fdl and BassMechanic, I hear you wrt to the software issue, however my take on it is a lot like the horsepower issue w/ the TSX. Yes, you can buy more powerful cars, but the power in the TSX is "good enough". Same for Mac software, I've got Mac apps for everything I need to do, so that's good enough. I understand that may not be the case for everyone. I think the bigger issue from a "switcher" point of view is not the lack of availability of Mac software, it's not being able to use PC software you've already paid for. Emulation (virtualPC) only goes so far.

Come to think of it, the Mac/TSX comparison is a good one. Both are a little bit out of the mainstream, high on style and function, not the "best" or "fastest" at everything you might want to do, but are overall well-rounded packages that are appreciated by their owners.

 

Then again Macs are the computers of choice for any type of graphics application. Why is that?

 

I'm a equal oppertunity basher.

I think all OS are crap, including UNIX and Linux.

People like to bash windows because Bill Gate is rich, Windows are everywhere and it so high on the visibility scale that every time shit happens to it, people automatically bash it.

Reality is, I can bet you that if UNIX, Linux or OS X ever have 80-90% penatration of Windows, it'll get hacked a lot more often too. And I can bet at least 40% of linux users had their root password stolen at some point of their linux usage history. But you don't see that on the front page of CNN or MSNBC because it's insignificant.

Yeah, your BSD runs forever. So is mine. Because its function never changes. My BSD monitors door locks and security sensors. It's not plug into a network at all. It will run forever til someone decides to demolish the building. But most other system requires improvements and updates and upgrades to make jobs run better. When you make a change, that when error most likely occurs.

My W2K server has been running 780 days without a reboot. All it does is collect pump data and pass it on to a DB. It's behind a firewall, I've never patch it or touch it.

Back to my point, if you think one OS is more secure than another. You are ignorant. Your OS will only be secure if you throw the right sysadmin behind it.

 

It's coming, China, Korean and Japan is joining forces to come up with a MS alternative. If they can put the polictical crap aside, we may have more choices in about a decade.

 

Because they look pretty and gay which match the profile of anyone work in graphics! :P

But really, in the past, there had always been more killa graphic apps for Macs than PC. Some of these vendors started to port their products to PC to increase market share but for the graphics industry, many are still Mac die hards. And seems like that's the case for years to come.

 

All OS's are most definately NOT equal. UNIX is far more stable, more effiecient, and still very much ahead of M$. The gap is closing...but when it comes to big business or industrial applications..UNIX DOES have 80 - 90 % penetration.

Now when talking home use...thats where M$ really dominates and have pretty much the entire market share. But their products are junk. I am not talking about someone getting your password...i am talking about system freezes, blue screens of death....and internet worms. They are getting better...but still have a long way to go. Can bill gates and the gang make a better product? Of course they can...but Like i said in my initial post...they need to take some of the focus away from getting it out as quickly as possible, and as cheaply as possible. We put up with it because we have no choice ... but dont be fooled into thinking M$ software is some marvel of technology. Its not...peel away the fancy interface and you'll find bloated, inefficient, sloppy, and unsecure software.

 

Xtrema you sound like a sysadmin having a bad day. :'( That's OK we all do. I recommend you have a beer and relax...



My approach is that I'm not anti- anything (even Microsoft!), I'm pro- stuff that works. Whatever solves the problem at hand is the "best" solution. Sometimes that's Win2K or XP, sometimes OS X, sometimes FBSD or Linux. Choice is a good thing.

You're 100% right that security is about a process, not an OS.

 

Sure need a cold one 5pm on a Friday night and I can't go home yet.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing here... I spent a few years as an independent computer/network consultant. My motto to clients was "If these things worked, you wouldn't need me".

 

Xtrema, when you're done work, try one of these:


http://www.headlinehumour.com/captions/caption_beer.jpg

 

My solution to software problems:

Remote desktop connection


I have been connecting to my XP/2003 Server machine with this software for a while now, and it's proven to be very reliable.

As far as software apps, I would like to know what software you used is not available on mac. As far as I'm concern, I am very much happy now that I can run thousands and thousands of unix app on my machine.

Xtrema is right about the security issue. Just that on the end user side, mac provides a relatively stable os which is FULLY compatible with the hardware. I have had more hardware/software compatibility issues on PC than any other macs. And I do upgrade my macs with third party products. Currently, I had an old world G3 upgraded with Sonnet Tech G4 processor, ATI Radeon graphic card, Sonnet Tempo RAID controller, a couple of 10/100 NIC with Realtek chipset, and a Sony CDRW. All of which didn't gave me any issues. On the other hand, when I am trying to upgrade my graphic card on my PC, it took me almost 6 hours to troubleshoot, and at the end result is a somewhat unstable system.

To sum up, Mac is a good overall package. It is not the best, but not too far from it.

 

Oh, just the other day I found out that Mac OS 10.2.6 has almost all digital camera's driver built in. So you just need to plug the camera into the USB port and it'll work with the iPhoto app. The generic PC compatible card reader works as well.

 

Go get a few rita's Xtrema..

As always the user is the weakest link, nothing new there.

As always the user is the weakest link, nothing new there.



Beyond the obvious, I think the majority of us have seen various Windows products just not hold up to what we think they should. (hey, call it user error again.. I don't care.) Things have been getting better over the years. My 2k workstation at work is pretty usuable and doesn't fall over like its w95 brother.

...er no time to continue this.. have to get a shower.


-r

 

I still think Microsoft is crap. XP is a lot better than 95 though. I mean, I can be browsing the internet or talking on AIM or even writing an Essay in Microsoft Word and it will freeze. Happens all the time. My computer is a 2ghz Pentium processor on top of that. The registers we use at work our Windows 98. They freeze occasionly in the middle of transactions. This is the most widely used software in the world. Are we not advanced enough to write an OS that doesn't freeze when I'm writing an Essay or writing on Acura-TSX? I'll give Microsoft credit from going from 3.1 ---> XP.


Microsoft Works!

 

I've got my WinXP ($10 copy direct from Microsoft). I've had one crash in 3 years from a bad video driver install.

Bottom line is this...it may not be the best, but it just works. I don't have to do crazy crap like recompile programs, mess with command line interfaces, etc.

That said, I'm still a big advocate of OpenSource software. Most of my programs I've gotten from SourceForge (Xnews, Mozilla Firebird and Thunderbird, FileZilla, DVDDecrypter, DVDShrink, PDFCreator, CDEx, foobar2000, SpeedFan, MotherboardMonitor, etc.)

 

Pretty gay huh? Don't look at my profile. The one thing I'll say about Mac vs PC argument is that almost everyone who uses both operating systems regularly prefers the Mac. Most people who tend to bash it use it never or used it ten years ago in school and compare that experience with XP.

Us Graphic Artists started using macs because the best programs were not written for windows in the early days (Adobe Photoshop for example was Mac only). Now the programs are almost all on both platforms, but like others have said, its very expensive to buy all new versions of all the graphics programs I use. Quark alone is 1k dollars now. Actually much cheaper to stick with macs than to switch, plus I don't need to pay an IT guy just to keep the machines running and virus free.

 

That's a very good point.