NFL: 2014 Season News and Discussion Thread
#1121
There's a range in PSI that is acceptable. It's known in the league that QB's have preferences. I've read so far that Matt Leinart and Boomer Esiason has said that for years QB's have air preferences. I think I heard on ESPN radio that Aaron Rodgers likes it more full Anyways due to personal taste it's why the teams should handle as opposed to the league.
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#1125
Trolling Canuckistan
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 811
From: 100 Legends Way, Boston, MA 02114
The league gives them to the teams, the teams select the 12 they want to use for game play. The refs inspect them prior to the game.
This is only a story because people love to hate the pats. This is something that is known to be done throughout the league. Different quarterbacks have different preferences and they "doctor" the balls to their liking. It's the refs job to make the decision that a ball has been "doctored" too much and not approve it for game play.
This isn't much different than pitchers in baseball doctoring the balls before pitches. It's done widely throughout the league, everyone who pays attention knows it, you don't get busted unless you are over the top with it or another team calls you on it. The main difference is that in football we are just finding out about it know.
The league condoned it, it provided better games and more offense help the "fantasy sports" world. If it wasn't condoned by the league, the league would supply the game balls and both teams would use the same ones provided by the officials. If you want to make sure that all game balls are regulation, why would you give them to the teams and go though the process of "certifying them"? You would certify them and provide them at game time. This is a multi billion dollar non tax paying organization, they can afford a few footballs.
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#1128
Pretty much sums up how I feel:
If allegations prove true, New England Patriots' arrogance should have consequences - ESPN Boston
...
On the surface, knowingly tampering with footballs just minutes before (or during?) the AFC Championship Game in which your team is heavily favored seems, in the words of former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison, "laughable.''
It is also incredibly audacious, stupid and paranoid.
It's almost as ludicrous as videotaping the defensive signals of opposing teams after the league sent a memo specifically forbidding the practice and warning there would be serious repercussions if the decree was ignored.
Spygate, Deflategate. Connect the dots and it appears to be more of the same, a haughty coach obsessed with winning who will do anything to get an edge -- and will gleefully tweak the league office in the process.
Therein lies Belichick's problem. A man who has made football his life's work, whose reverence for the game and its history is well-documented, has forever forfeited the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his own integrity. Earlier this month, 85-year-old Don Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history and the only one to oversee an undefeated season, with the Miami Dolphins in 1972, was asked about New England's coach. The congenial Shula replied: "Beli-cheat?"
It spoke volumes about the perception of New England's resident football genius. Shula is a man of character and credibility. His words hold weight, far more than a blustery Ray Lewis embarking on a rant dismissing Tom Brady's career because of the tuck rule. That made no sense and had no merit.
This deflation controversy is a different case altogether.
...
Why can't the coach trust his players' talents and his own intellect and lean on the excellence of the organization he has so painstakingly built into a sustainable football juggernaut? It's like a prizefighter pummeling his opponent for six straight rounds, then feeling compelled to throw a sucker punch after the bell has sounded. Why? You had the fight won.
I'll say it again: There's no concrete evidence yet that Belichick or the Patriots did anything wrong. But even the most ardent New England fan has to concede that when 11 of the 12 balls are discovered to be deflated, that's a mighty interesting coincidence.
If the NFL finds the Patriots culpable (and that is still a big "if" at this point), it should lay the hammer down. If Belichick turns out to be a repeat offender in the skirting of the league rules, he should be suspended for the Super Bowl.
It's not about the deflated balls. It's not about how much of an advantage (if any) it provided the Patriots or Tom Brady.
It's about the integrity of the sport and the arrogance of a football coach who, if guilty, will have once again shown that he thinks he is bigger than the game.
...
On the surface, knowingly tampering with footballs just minutes before (or during?) the AFC Championship Game in which your team is heavily favored seems, in the words of former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison, "laughable.''
It is also incredibly audacious, stupid and paranoid.
It's almost as ludicrous as videotaping the defensive signals of opposing teams after the league sent a memo specifically forbidding the practice and warning there would be serious repercussions if the decree was ignored.
Spygate, Deflategate. Connect the dots and it appears to be more of the same, a haughty coach obsessed with winning who will do anything to get an edge -- and will gleefully tweak the league office in the process.
Therein lies Belichick's problem. A man who has made football his life's work, whose reverence for the game and its history is well-documented, has forever forfeited the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his own integrity. Earlier this month, 85-year-old Don Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history and the only one to oversee an undefeated season, with the Miami Dolphins in 1972, was asked about New England's coach. The congenial Shula replied: "Beli-cheat?"
It spoke volumes about the perception of New England's resident football genius. Shula is a man of character and credibility. His words hold weight, far more than a blustery Ray Lewis embarking on a rant dismissing Tom Brady's career because of the tuck rule. That made no sense and had no merit.
This deflation controversy is a different case altogether.
...
Why can't the coach trust his players' talents and his own intellect and lean on the excellence of the organization he has so painstakingly built into a sustainable football juggernaut? It's like a prizefighter pummeling his opponent for six straight rounds, then feeling compelled to throw a sucker punch after the bell has sounded. Why? You had the fight won.
I'll say it again: There's no concrete evidence yet that Belichick or the Patriots did anything wrong. But even the most ardent New England fan has to concede that when 11 of the 12 balls are discovered to be deflated, that's a mighty interesting coincidence.
If the NFL finds the Patriots culpable (and that is still a big "if" at this point), it should lay the hammer down. If Belichick turns out to be a repeat offender in the skirting of the league rules, he should be suspended for the Super Bowl.
It's not about the deflated balls. It's not about how much of an advantage (if any) it provided the Patriots or Tom Brady.
It's about the integrity of the sport and the arrogance of a football coach who, if guilty, will have once again shown that he thinks he is bigger than the game.
...
Last edited by elessar; 01-22-2015 at 03:49 PM.
#1130
#1131
I agree. and this.
I realize this incident, in isolation, isn't a huge deal. It was a blow out, and you can't make the argument that a 2 psi deviation from the regulation ball pressure led to a 45-7 victory.
Problem is this isn't in isolation. It's a pattern of behavior. It's one thing after another. One small gray area at a time.
If an Olympic runner ran with an illegal length of cleat they'd be disqualified. A baseball player with too much pine-tar on the bad would also be DQ'd, or a pitcher with Vaseline on their fingers. There is precedent that the small stuff can matter. And how is the slight edge you get with an under inflated ball any different than the slight edge you get with a PED? For crying out loud, the league threatened to ban Marshawn Lynch from the NFC championship for wearing the wrong color cleats, which has nothing to do with the actual play. However an under inflated ball does. But I guess that's OK. Because really the marketing is more important. If they had used the wrong brand of football we'd probably be playing Indy.
This all stinks. It stinks because Belichick believes he is above the rules. It stinks because the NFL allows it. A few days ago I just hoped we beat the Pats. Now I hope we destroy them in a painful, shameful way. Screw Billichick and his "legacy".
It's about the integrity of the sport and the arrogance of a football coach who, if guilty, will have once again shown that he thinks he is bigger than the game.
Problem is this isn't in isolation. It's a pattern of behavior. It's one thing after another. One small gray area at a time.
If an Olympic runner ran with an illegal length of cleat they'd be disqualified. A baseball player with too much pine-tar on the bad would also be DQ'd, or a pitcher with Vaseline on their fingers. There is precedent that the small stuff can matter. And how is the slight edge you get with an under inflated ball any different than the slight edge you get with a PED? For crying out loud, the league threatened to ban Marshawn Lynch from the NFC championship for wearing the wrong color cleats, which has nothing to do with the actual play. However an under inflated ball does. But I guess that's OK. Because really the marketing is more important. If they had used the wrong brand of football we'd probably be playing Indy.
This all stinks. It stinks because Belichick believes he is above the rules. It stinks because the NFL allows it. A few days ago I just hoped we beat the Pats. Now I hope we destroy them in a painful, shameful way. Screw Billichick and his "legacy".
Last edited by 1Louder; 01-22-2015 at 08:28 PM.
#1133
Trolling Canuckistan
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 811
From: 100 Legends Way, Boston, MA 02114
I'm gonna guess the only deflated balls at the Super Bowl will be those in the Seahawks jock straps. That's what happens when your juiced up on steroids, probably why the have to grab their junk when they score, just to make sure their balls are still there.
#1134
This has nothing to do with Marshawns cleats. He posted an image online and the nfl told him if you wear those (non apporved) cleats you will be ejected. Pretty straight forward.
As of now there is no proof the patriots "deflated" the balls. There is an ongoing investigation to see what happen, the only info we have is from Mort's "nfl source". The nfl hasn't given a single statement about the situation. You can't start punishing players/coaches without knowing what happen.
Everyone needs to relax until then. I'm not denying what happen I'm just tired of people calling for Belichick to be fired or Brady to be suspended before we have the facts straight
As of now there is no proof the patriots "deflated" the balls. There is an ongoing investigation to see what happen, the only info we have is from Mort's "nfl source". The nfl hasn't given a single statement about the situation. You can't start punishing players/coaches without knowing what happen.
Everyone needs to relax until then. I'm not denying what happen I'm just tired of people calling for Belichick to be fired or Brady to be suspended before we have the facts straight
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#1135
#1136
Wrong team, dude.
Ya know, I had Brady on my fantasy team this year, and he sucked to the point where I benched him in Week 4, I think - and that's when he suddenly started to blow up, for pretty much the rest of the season. I wonder if that's when they started letting a little extra air out.
I'm actually only about halfway kidding about that...
Ya know, I had Brady on my fantasy team this year, and he sucked to the point where I benched him in Week 4, I think - and that's when he suddenly started to blow up, for pretty much the rest of the season. I wonder if that's when they started letting a little extra air out.
I'm actually only about halfway kidding about that...
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elessar (01-23-2015)
#1138
Ok it's over. Moving on...
Colts Player: Officials Stopped Using Patriots' Balls In The First Half
Colts Player: Officials Stopped Using Patriots' Balls In The First Half
Because the NFL investigation is taking its sweet time (they haven't spoken to Tom Brady yet), and because it'll never reveal anything useful anyway, we're forced to piece together the details and the timeline of how the Patriots' deflated-ball scandal played out. This interview helps immensely: it's an interview with D'Qwell Jackson, the first Colts player to touch one of Brady's alleged soft balls.
We'd already learned that the Colts grew suspicious of the Patriots' footballs during their game back in November, and had alerted the NFL to their concerns. But two pieces of information revealed by Jackson in a conference call yesterday shed more light on how things went down in the AFC Championship: 1) Jackson did not personally notice anything wrong with the ball he intercepted, and 2) Officials took the Patriots' balls out of play in the first half, much earlier than had been previously reported.
Report: NFL Was Aware Of Patriots Deflation Allegations Before Sunday
This, at least, answers one of the peripheral questions surrounding claims that the Patriots…Read more
Jackson, who claimed he didn't even know there was a controversy until the team flew back to Indianapolis late that night, said he doesn't handle footballs often enough to tell the difference between, say one with 12.5 psi and one with 10.5 psi. "I definitely wouldn't be able to tell if one ball had less pressure than another," he said.
This doesn't necessarily conflict with what was first reported. Newsday's Bob Glauber, who was the first to discover the NFL's investigation, wrote on Monday morning that it wasn't Jackson who first noticed something wrong with the ball, but rather the Colts equipment manager he gave it to after his interception. And sure enough, Jackson said yesterday he handed the ball off because he "wanted that ball as a souvenir."
Much more interesting is Jackson's statement that the Patriots' balls were taken out of play in the first half. Previously, we'd only known that they were formally inspected at halftime.
Jackson does, however, recall one interesting moment during the first half that has something to do with the latest controversy. He recalls, during a television timeout, there was an especially long delay that prompted him to approach an official.
The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game.
Interesting! (All of this qualifies as "interesting." Not "nefarious," not "criminal," certainly not "suspendable." It's still a lot of fun to follow, and I am excited to see what comes out next. It's a scandal in every sense of the word, but no one ought to be scandalized.)
Jackson, saying what everyone's been saying (and then been shouted down for saying), declared that ball pressure wasn't why the Colts got mollywhopped.
"It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game," Jackson said. "They outplayed us. We didn't match their intensity. I don't feel slighted at all personally. They created turnovers, they ran the ball on us. They won that game because of their intensity — not the pressure of a football."
And so ends the Ballghazi controversy. I trust no one will ever talk about it again.
We'd already learned that the Colts grew suspicious of the Patriots' footballs during their game back in November, and had alerted the NFL to their concerns. But two pieces of information revealed by Jackson in a conference call yesterday shed more light on how things went down in the AFC Championship: 1) Jackson did not personally notice anything wrong with the ball he intercepted, and 2) Officials took the Patriots' balls out of play in the first half, much earlier than had been previously reported.
Report: NFL Was Aware Of Patriots Deflation Allegations Before Sunday
This, at least, answers one of the peripheral questions surrounding claims that the Patriots…Read more
Jackson, who claimed he didn't even know there was a controversy until the team flew back to Indianapolis late that night, said he doesn't handle footballs often enough to tell the difference between, say one with 12.5 psi and one with 10.5 psi. "I definitely wouldn't be able to tell if one ball had less pressure than another," he said.
This doesn't necessarily conflict with what was first reported. Newsday's Bob Glauber, who was the first to discover the NFL's investigation, wrote on Monday morning that it wasn't Jackson who first noticed something wrong with the ball, but rather the Colts equipment manager he gave it to after his interception. And sure enough, Jackson said yesterday he handed the ball off because he "wanted that ball as a souvenir."
Much more interesting is Jackson's statement that the Patriots' balls were taken out of play in the first half. Previously, we'd only known that they were formally inspected at halftime.
Jackson does, however, recall one interesting moment during the first half that has something to do with the latest controversy. He recalls, during a television timeout, there was an especially long delay that prompted him to approach an official.
The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game.
Interesting! (All of this qualifies as "interesting." Not "nefarious," not "criminal," certainly not "suspendable." It's still a lot of fun to follow, and I am excited to see what comes out next. It's a scandal in every sense of the word, but no one ought to be scandalized.)
Jackson, saying what everyone's been saying (and then been shouted down for saying), declared that ball pressure wasn't why the Colts got mollywhopped.
"It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game," Jackson said. "They outplayed us. We didn't match their intensity. I don't feel slighted at all personally. They created turnovers, they ran the ball on us. They won that game because of their intensity — not the pressure of a football."
And so ends the Ballghazi controversy. I trust no one will ever talk about it again.
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NBP04TL4ME (01-23-2015)
#1139
Just because they cheated and got caught early enough for it not to make a difference in the outcome of the game, does NOT mean that they should escape punishment for cheating.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
Last edited by elessar; 01-23-2015 at 09:24 AM.
#1141
Just because they cheated and got caught early enough for it not to make a difference in the outcome of the game, does NOT mean that they should escape punishment for cheating.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
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NBP04TL4ME (01-23-2015)
#1142
Funny thing is, in one of the articles I read about this yesterday, the top 2 comments pretty much summed up the entire argument, from the 2 most common points of view:
1st guy: Haters gonna hate!
2nd guy: Cheaters gonna cheat!
Obviously I'm firmly in the 2nd camp.
1st guy: Haters gonna hate!
2nd guy: Cheaters gonna cheat!
Obviously I'm firmly in the 2nd camp.
#1143
Count me in Camp 2!
#1144
Oh ya party time. Stop blaming the pats when the refs can't do their own job
Among the many people who had contact with the Patriots pigskin used in Sunday's AFC championship — which were reportedly underinflated — were the ball boys. And one former ball boy (who did not take part in Sunday's match) told NBC News that his goal was always to prepare the ball to the quarterback's preference and hope they passed inspection, and that it would have been very difficult to tamper with them afterward.
Eric Kester, who was a ball boy for the Chicago Bears in 2003, says he can't speculate about the controversy dubbed "Deflate-Gate," but he remembers how the preparation worked — starting with the delivery of factory-fresh balls a few days before a game.
"We would then work with the quarterbacks to customize the balls to their liking. This involved scrubbing them with stiff horsehair brushes to rub off the leather's slippery silicone sheen, and occasionally inflating or deflating the balls a very small amount, which I believe is legal to a degree. Quarterbacks are very particular about the way a ball feels in their hand, and we worked meticulously to match their particular preferences," Kester said.
Two hours before kickoff, he would bring the balls to the referees' locker room for inspection.
"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said.
"My thought process was, 'Let's get the balls exactly the way our quarterback wants them, and if the refs reject one or two before the game, no big deal. But there's no harm giving them our ideal balls and hoping they make it through inspection.'"
Eric Kester, who was a ball boy for the Chicago Bears in 2003, says he can't speculate about the controversy dubbed "Deflate-Gate," but he remembers how the preparation worked — starting with the delivery of factory-fresh balls a few days before a game.
"We would then work with the quarterbacks to customize the balls to their liking. This involved scrubbing them with stiff horsehair brushes to rub off the leather's slippery silicone sheen, and occasionally inflating or deflating the balls a very small amount, which I believe is legal to a degree. Quarterbacks are very particular about the way a ball feels in their hand, and we worked meticulously to match their particular preferences," Kester said.
Two hours before kickoff, he would bring the balls to the referees' locker room for inspection.
"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said.
"My thought process was, 'Let's get the balls exactly the way our quarterback wants them, and if the refs reject one or two before the game, no big deal. But there's no harm giving them our ideal balls and hoping they make it through inspection.'"
#1146
Just because they cheated and got caught early enough for it not to make a difference in the outcome of the game, does NOT mean that they should escape punishment for cheating.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
Think about it: that article is just further proof that they got caught cheating in the AFC Championship Game.
My is that Belichick should be suspended for the Superbowl. They obviously can't, won't and shouldn't strip the AFC Championship from the Pats, but just giving them a slap on the wrist (i.e. taking away draft picks) doesn't seem sufficient.
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#1147
I know. I'm late to the show.
This part of that link is just too much. "3) Footballs with less air pressure have less mass, and thus do not travel as far."
How much air will it take to affect the mass by 1%?
How about, "Footballs with less air will have less surface tension and more drag, thus they do not travel as far." I seriously question if some of these "sports science" guys have actually ever taken a chemistry or physics course.
Thank you for allowing me to not have to write that up.
If the balls were properly inflated at the time of ref-check, and no one tampered with the inflation afterward, I'd be inclined to blame Clapeyron, Boyle and Charles.
Scientific Explanations Of Deflate-gate | SportsGrid
Scientific Explanations Of Deflate-gate | SportsGrid
How much air will it take to affect the mass by 1%?
How about, "Footballs with less air will have less surface tension and more drag, thus they do not travel as far." I seriously question if some of these "sports science" guys have actually ever taken a chemistry or physics course.
The league does provide the balls.
The league gives them to the teams, the teams select the 12 they want to use for game play. The refs inspect them prior to the game.
This is only a story because people love to hate the pats. This is something that is known to be done throughout the league. Different quarterbacks have different preferences and they "doctor" the balls to their liking. It's the refs job to make the decision that a ball has been "doctored" too much and not approve it for game play.
This isn't much different than pitchers in baseball doctoring the balls before pitches. It's done widely throughout the league, everyone who pays attention knows it, you don't get busted unless you are over the top with it or another team calls you on it. The main difference is that in football we are just finding out about it know.
The league condoned it, it provided better games and more offense help the "fantasy sports" world. If it wasn't condoned by the league, the league would supply the game balls and both teams would use the same ones provided by the officials. If you want to make sure that all game balls are regulation, why would you give them to the teams and go though the process of "certifying them"? You would certify them and provide them at game time. This is a multi billion dollar non tax paying organization, they can afford a few footballs.
The league gives them to the teams, the teams select the 12 they want to use for game play. The refs inspect them prior to the game.
This is only a story because people love to hate the pats. This is something that is known to be done throughout the league. Different quarterbacks have different preferences and they "doctor" the balls to their liking. It's the refs job to make the decision that a ball has been "doctored" too much and not approve it for game play.
This isn't much different than pitchers in baseball doctoring the balls before pitches. It's done widely throughout the league, everyone who pays attention knows it, you don't get busted unless you are over the top with it or another team calls you on it. The main difference is that in football we are just finding out about it know.
The league condoned it, it provided better games and more offense help the "fantasy sports" world. If it wasn't condoned by the league, the league would supply the game balls and both teams would use the same ones provided by the officials. If you want to make sure that all game balls are regulation, why would you give them to the teams and go though the process of "certifying them"? You would certify them and provide them at game time. This is a multi billion dollar non tax paying organization, they can afford a few footballs.
#1148
I know. I'm late to the show.
This part of that link is just too much. "3) Footballs with less air pressure have less mass, and thus do not travel as far."
How much air will it take to affect the mass by 1%?
How about, "Footballs with less air will have less surface tension and more drag, thus they do not travel as far." I seriously question if some of these "sports science" guys have actually ever taken a chemistry or physics course.
This part of that link is just too much. "3) Footballs with less air pressure have less mass, and thus do not travel as far."
How much air will it take to affect the mass by 1%?
How about, "Footballs with less air will have less surface tension and more drag, thus they do not travel as far." I seriously question if some of these "sports science" guys have actually ever taken a chemistry or physics course.
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oo7spy (01-23-2015)
#1149
Wearing a regulation cleat, just with the wrong color = game suspension.
Using an altered piece of playing equipment, where the alteration provides a competitive advantage, should = something worse than wearing the wrong color, right?
#1151
So my only point in bringing up Marshawn's cleats was to illustrate a point.
Wearing a regulation cleat, just with the wrong color = game suspension.
Using an altered piece of playing equipment, where the alteration provides a competitive advantage, should = something worse than wearing the wrong color, right?
Wearing a regulation cleat, just with the wrong color = game suspension.
Using an altered piece of playing equipment, where the alteration provides a competitive advantage, should = something worse than wearing the wrong color, right?
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#1 STUNNA (01-23-2015)
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