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NBA: 2009 Playoffs Thread

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Old 05-26-2009, 12:14 AM
  #841  
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That trip by Jones was pretty cheap...but for some reason I'm not feeling sorry for Kobe. He gets away with a lot.

So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.
Old 05-26-2009, 12:19 AM
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
That trip by Jones was pretty cheap...but for some reason I'm not feeling sorry for Kobe. He gets away with a lot.

So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.


last time i checked, boston's won 17 championships. and i'm not sure how the 16 won prior to this current cast has any effect on the 4 teams that are still alive.
Old 05-26-2009, 12:28 AM
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Phil and his coaching staff not liking what they see lol




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Old 05-26-2009, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer
Phil and his coaching staff not liking what they see lol



Old 05-26-2009, 01:38 AM
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jr smith is asking for it next game. hes like the eddie house of the west. i hope he gets rafer alston'd. and yah i thought that jones trip was cheap too. yet kobe does deserve it. he likes to throw the elbows and kick out.

Go Magic
Old 05-26-2009, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMindTricks


last time i checked, boston's won 17 championships. and i'm not sure how the 16 won prior to this current cast has any effect on the 4 teams that are still alive.
Not sure what you mean, but my point was I'm not sure any of these 4 teams are really that good, especially compared to the previous Champions.
Old 05-26-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
Not sure what you mean, but my point was I'm not sure any of these 4 teams are really that good, especially compared to the previous Champions.
yes, i agree when you say it that way.

but saying the 4 teams can't beat the "previous 20 time nba champs" is irrelevant because 1) they didn't win 20, 2) the first 16 has nothing to do with current basketball, and 3) the current celtics aren't 20 or 17 time nba champs, and all of those previous championships won't have any effect on the other teams.
Old 05-26-2009, 12:28 PM
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Did anyone see the stat that there was something crazy like 86 fouls called in game 4 of the Magic and Cavs...and the NBA wonders why people are asking is the games are still fixed by the refs, when the call a foul every 30 seconds
Old 05-26-2009, 12:29 PM
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i dont know if i can say i agree with the trip on Kobe but he does do his fair share of dirty stuff too but is it just me or are they only focusing on the stuff that happens to kobe...lol everytime he get pushed or bumped thats just some b/s..
Old 05-26-2009, 12:31 PM
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yea the foul calling was terrible that game every little tick tack foul was called and the that got howard on the block from behind on Lebron was all ball couldnt believe they call that a foul...
Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
yes, i agree when you say it that way.

but saying the 4 teams can't beat the "previous 20 time nba champs" is irrelevant because 1) they didn't win 20, 2) the first 16 has nothing to do with current basketball, and 3) the current celtics aren't 20 or 17 time nba champs, and all of those previous championships won't have any effect on the other teams.
I'm still not sure what you're saying, but maybe you're over complicating what I said. When I look at the current 4 teams, and compare them to the previous 20 champs, roster by roster, bench play contributions, consistency, team play - I don't think they could beat the previous 20 champs. It's a statement I threw out there for a hypothetical sports discussion - it doesn't need to be relevant to anything, and it doesn matter how many championships anyone has won. I'm saying each of the Bulls, pistons, Spurs, Rockets, and laker championship teams would have beat these 4 current teams. If you don't agree that's cool, but this is the type of stuff hoop heads discuss all the time
Old 05-26-2009, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
I'm still not sure what you're saying, but maybe you're over complicating what I said. When I look at the current 4 teams, and compare them to the previous 20 champs, roster by roster, bench play contributions, consistency, team play - I don't think they could beat the previous 20 champs. It's a statement I threw out there for a hypothetical sports discussion - it doesn't need to be relevant to anything, and it doesn matter how many championships anyone has won. I'm saying each of the Bulls, pistons, Spurs, Rockets, and laker championship teams would have beat these 4 current teams. If you don't agree that's cool, but this is the type of stuff hoop heads discuss all the time
first of all, stop saying they're 20 time champs. they've won 17 championships.

ok, i see what you mean. i thought you were referring to the current celtics team as 20 time champs.
Old 05-26-2009, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by scholtew
Did anyone see the stat that there was something crazy like 86 fouls called in game 4 of the Magic and Cavs...and the NBA wonders why people are asking is the games are still fixed by the refs, when the call a foul every 30 seconds
you mean game 3?

yea, that game was ruined by all the foul calling. it totally ruined any fluidity that the game could have had.

the refs, especially this postseason, have been

Originally Posted by lyve
i dont know if i can say i agree with the trip on Kobe but he does do his fair share of dirty stuff too but is it just me or are they only focusing on the stuff that happens to kobe...lol everytime he get pushed or bumped thats just some b/s..
kobe went by jones, and jones stuck his leg out and tripped him. i thought it looked pretty clear to me that it was intentional. this was after pushing kobe in the back on a layup attempt.

but yes, i do agree with you that kobe does his fair share of tricks.

as for your last point, it's no secret that the league's a superstar league. superstars always get the benefit of the doubt in terms of calls and fouls. kobe, lebron, MJ, magic, etc all did. if you so much breathed on MJ, you got whistled. it sucks and isn't fair, but it is what it is.
Old 05-26-2009, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by scholtew
Did anyone see the stat that there was something crazy like 86 fouls called in game 4 of the Magic and Cavs...and the NBA wonders why people are asking is the games are still fixed by the refs, when the call a foul every 30 seconds
86 combined FT's in Game 3

...the officiating in that series has definitely been poor, but I'm getting tired of hearing Orlando's coaches'/players'/medias' whining about it.
Old 05-26-2009, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by paz840
86 combined FT's in Game 3

...the officiating in that series has definitely been poor, but I'm getting tired of hearing Orlando's coaches'/players'/medias' whining about it.
Yes game three, thank you for the correction. I agree that Im getting sick of hearing the media bitching about it, but dont you think they have a legit case given the stat we jsut talked about? The officiating in the entire playoffs has been garbage for the most part.
Old 05-26-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by scholtew
Yes game three, thank you for the correction. I agree that Im getting sick of hearing the media bitching about it, but dont you think they have a legit case given the stat we jsut talked about? The officiating in the entire playoffs has been garbage for the most part.
i do because the officiating has been inconsistent for the most part. especially with what's a flagrant and what's not.

i can live with the superstar fouls because it's just part of the league whether or not we like it. it kinda works out because most teams have a player that will get the benefit of those calls.

it's the inconsistency that's really ruining it for me.

i'm curious to know how one can become a ref because a lot of these guys have been officiating games since i was in elementary school. bill simmons brought up a good point: how do you expect guys in their 60s to be able to keep up with these players and reply on their deteriorating motor skills?
Old 05-26-2009, 03:08 PM
  #858  
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Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
as for your last point, it's no secret that the league's a superstar league. superstars always get the benefit of the doubt in terms of calls and fouls. kobe, lebron, MJ, magic, etc all did. if you so much breathed on MJ, you got whistled. it sucks and isn't fair, but it is what it is.
I think it's true the MJ and all get/got more calls. But I think it's only part rep status. I think if you drive into the lane a lot, you'll get fouled more often. See Dwayne Wade, who gets a lot of foul calls, and almost all of it is legit. You come into the lane hard, chances are you're gonna get hacked.

As far as getting away with tricks of the trade, it's obvious Kobe has studied MJ down to the detail in how how to slap defenders arms away, use his arms and elbows to push off without calling attention to it. But defenders also had more leeway in how much contact was allowed in the 80's and 90's. So equal contact on both sides of the ball. But now, I've seen Kobe slap players arms away who weren't even touching him - which is cool if you can get away with it.
Old 05-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
I think it's true the MJ and all get/got more calls. But I think it's only part rep status. I think if you drive into the lane a lot, you'll get fouled more often. See Dwayne Wade, who gets a lot of foul calls, and almost all of it is legit. You come into the lane hard, chances are you're gonna get hacked.

As far as getting away with tricks of the trade, it's obvious Kobe has studied MJ down to the detail in how how to slap defenders arms away, use his arms and elbows to push off without calling attention to it. But defenders also had more leeway in how much contact was allowed in the 80's and 90's. So equal contact on both sides of the ball. But now, I've seen Kobe slap players arms away who weren't even touching him - which is cool if you can get away with it.
yea, i agree that guys like MJ and wade do get a lot of legitimate calls. but as much of an MJ i am, (no homo) i'll admit that he got a ton of touch fouls. i was watching some old finals games against the jazz, and it was unbelievable how many times russell and hornecek were whistled for just touching MJ. but that's carried over to guys like lebron and kobe now.
Old 05-26-2009, 03:18 PM
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http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_....html?rss=true

We're not quite halfway to Kobe-LeBron I with the Lakers doing their part, ahead 2-1 on the Denver Nuggets, while the Cavs fell behind 2-1 with Sunday night's loss to the Orlando Magic. I'm not one who believes these things are manipulated. Not when the Spurs and Nets played in the NBA Finals.
But the NBA has erred in a big way in that famous appearance of a conflict of interest. ESPN is a full partner with the NBA, not only in televising games, but with the TV networks able to dictate scheduling of the playoff games. So here is the NBA on its web site promoting a one hour special ESPN has been running called "Dream Season: 23 & 24," which is clearly about Bryant and James meeting in the NBA Finals. It's supposedly a documentary focusing on the pair's basketball careers. But there are obvious comparisons made with Wilt and Russell and Magic and Bird and having an opponent in the Finals who defines you.
It's one thing for Nike to be running these ads with James and Bryant puppets. We know what they are selling. But for the NBA to be cooperating with its partner to feature Bryant and James this way is shocking and leads to just what the NBA tries to fight all the time: The idea that it manipulates series for the best television and ratings matchup.
Especially coming after disgraced referee Tim Donaghy alleged something similar, suggesting referees make calls to favor the stars in the playoffs, the thinking being if they please the league and a better matchup occurs, the referees will get the choice Finals assignments and thus much more pay. I believe it's nonsense and I also have found the many referees I know to have high levels of integrity.
So I cannot believe the NBA would not ask ESPN to at least hold off until after the conference finals on this kind of thing. I know the NBA has influence in its contract with what ESPN can say regarding certain issues. Remember when all the ESPN experts after the Palace brawl suggested the Pacers were provoked, and then after David Stern "talked" to them they decided it was an outrage. Dwight Howard, who fouled out of Game 2 after an obvious missed foul call for James, who shot a stunning 24 free throws in Game 3, was asked after Sunday about the league and ESPN featuring Kobe and LeBron and said all they could do was try to win the game.
Yes, Howard fouled out for the third time in the playoffs and has been in foul trouble virtually all series against the Cavs. James, who was voted first team all-defense and was runner up to Howard in defensive player of the year, again is being called for the fewest fouls of any of the top players in the playoffs.
James, who is averaging almost 14 free throws per game in the playoffs and only just started to defend Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu after hiding early in the series on Rafer Alston, is averaging 1.6 fouls per game in the playoffs and never has been in foul trouble with a three fouls the most he's been called for in any game.
It's still hard to believe.
Bryant is averaging 2.6 fouls and has had four fouls four times. Carmelo Anthony is averaging 3.9 fouls per game and five times has had five and fouled out once. Howard is averaging more than four fouls per game and has fouled out of three playoff games and had five fouls three times. James is great. There's no doubt. Better than Kobe, as Jerry West said? Better than Jordan eventually? as some suggest. Who knows. But just that someone is in the debate is remarkable. We've never seen a player like James, the amazing combination of power and skill. James' dramatic game winner in Game 2 was an alltime great shot, in many ways better than Jordan's series winner against the Cavs in 1989 because less time was remaining and it was a far longer shot.
It wasn't a series clincher, so it was in some respects like the Bulls/Celtics playoffs this season. Perhaps the best series ever but hardly the most significant. Jordan's shot was way more significant because of the circumstances. But you can't be in the middle of everything as James is on a team that relies on one player like perhaps no other conference finals team ever-OK, maybe the 1989 Bulls-and be called for so few fouls.
I know. They said it was the same way with Jordan. He got every call.
OK, let's go to the record book.
In that 1989 series against the Cavs when Jordan was last at his most one man gang, Jordan actually fouled out of Game 4 and averaged four fouls per game in that opening series against the Cavs. Five more times in those playoffs as the Bulls beat the Knicks in six and lost to the Pistons in six Jordan had five fouls in a game. It's the playoffs. The play is rougher than the regular season. You get involved in tougher matchups, though James does rest on defense a lot other than when he is chasing guys from behind for highlight blocks. But Jordan always had a high number of playoff fouls. The season before when the Bulls beat Cleveland in five games, Jordan fouled out of Game 4 in Cleveland. In 1991 when the Bulls won their first championship, Jordan was in foul trouble with five in two of the five Finals games. It simply defies logic to see James at the free throw line so much and virtually never being called for a foul.
Old 05-26-2009, 03:35 PM
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Im tired of Refs calling some bullshit calls....i mean cmon Dwight Howard had a ball on that blovk against Lebron and call it a foul, WTF!!!
Old 05-26-2009, 03:51 PM
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Srsly. No consistency whatsoever. Rescinding Johnson's flagrant on Williams was prolly the right call but it's after the fact. I agree with JMT, what's a flagrant and what's not is like a coin toss. Anyhoo, i'm still happy the nuggets dominated.
Old 05-26-2009, 08:32 PM
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Apparently Phil Jackson and the Lakers got fined $25k for criticizing the refs on Game 4 ..
Old 05-26-2009, 09:28 PM
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Ouch, Howard just got his 6th technical.
Old 05-26-2009, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftyFive
Ouch, Howard just got his 6th technical.
wow. one more and he is gone for 1 game.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:19 PM
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yes...foul him on the last play.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:22 PM
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Nice football move by Lebron there! LOL. Got a lucky call indeed.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:34 PM
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2010?
Old 05-26-2009, 10:35 PM
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looks good
Old 05-26-2009, 10:38 PM
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Wow....what a game.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:42 PM
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got home in time to catch the game beginning in the 4th quarter.

what an ending to the 4th.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:46 PM
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Well looks like Orlando will be going to the finals and Lebron is going to New York. Nice Pic Jedi..
Old 05-26-2009, 10:47 PM
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did anyone else think that last shot was going in?

Old 05-26-2009, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
did anyone else think that last shot was going in?

i did
Old 05-26-2009, 10:56 PM
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Yeah I thought it was going in...def...based on the three he hit just a bit earlier.
Old 05-26-2009, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mystikk
Apparently Phil Jackson and the Lakers got fined $25k for criticizing the refs on Game 4 ..
i JUST caught that phil jackson postgame interview.

"sit down and be quiet while i'm answering"
Old 05-26-2009, 11:03 PM
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if lebron goes, so does mike brown
and mo williams goes
way to go danny ferry
Old 05-26-2009, 11:15 PM
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and way to go Mo Williams
I actually believed your prediction for a good minute
then i saw you play today
Old 05-26-2009, 11:16 PM
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interesting game.
Old 05-26-2009, 11:17 PM
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and i saw lebron play today
him and his 8 TO
how clutch.

and has anyone noticed, everytime Lebron has scored over 40 this series, he lost.
just a thought. hope you go for 45 on thursday


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