View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship?
Orlando Magic
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8
18.18%
LA Lakers
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36
81.82%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll
NBA: 2009 Playoffs Thread
#841
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That trip by Jones was pretty cheap...but for some reason I'm not feeling sorry for Kobe. He gets away with a lot.
So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.
So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.
#843
What Would Don Draper Do?
That trip by Jones was pretty cheap...but for some reason I'm not feeling sorry for Kobe. He gets away with a lot.
So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.
So far I'm trying to figure out if these 4 teams are equally good or equally average. Seems like the teams are inconsistent with players disappearing every other game. After the main players - Kobe, Howard, James, Anthony/Billups - the rest of the players aren't stepping up consistently. I still think Orlando's lineup is wack but they're handling Cleveland. Makes me think that if Boston had stayed healthy with Garnett and Powe, they might be grabbing their 2nd ring. I'm not sure any of these 4 teams could beat the previous 20 NBA champs in a 7 game series.
![Huh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/huh.gif)
last time i checked, boston's won 17 championships. and i'm not sure how the 16 won prior to this current cast has any effect on the 4 teams that are still alive.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#846
jr smith is asking for it next game. hes like the eddie house of the west. i hope he gets rafer alston'd. and yah i thought that jones trip was cheap too. yet kobe does deserve it. he likes to throw the elbows and kick out.
Go Magic
Go Magic
#847
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Not sure what you mean, but my point was I'm not sure any of these 4 teams are really that good, especially compared to the previous Champions.
#848
What Would Don Draper Do?
but saying the 4 teams can't beat the "previous 20 time nba champs" is irrelevant because 1) they didn't win 20, 2) the first 16 has nothing to do with current basketball, and 3) the current celtics aren't 20 or 17 time nba champs, and all of those previous championships won't have any effect on the other teams.
#849
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Did anyone see the stat that there was something crazy like 86 fouls called in game 4 of the Magic and Cavs...and the NBA wonders why people are asking is the games are still fixed by the refs, when the call a foul every 30 seconds
#850
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i dont know if i can say i agree with the trip on Kobe but he does do his fair share of dirty stuff too but is it just me or are they only focusing on the stuff that happens to kobe...lol everytime he get pushed or bumped thats just some b/s..
#851
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yea the foul calling was terrible that game every little tick tack foul was called and the that got howard on the block from behind on Lebron was all ball couldnt believe they call that a foul...
#852
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yes, i agree when you say it that way.
but saying the 4 teams can't beat the "previous 20 time nba champs" is irrelevant because 1) they didn't win 20, 2) the first 16 has nothing to do with current basketball, and 3) the current celtics aren't 20 or 17 time nba champs, and all of those previous championships won't have any effect on the other teams.
but saying the 4 teams can't beat the "previous 20 time nba champs" is irrelevant because 1) they didn't win 20, 2) the first 16 has nothing to do with current basketball, and 3) the current celtics aren't 20 or 17 time nba champs, and all of those previous championships won't have any effect on the other teams.
#853
What Would Don Draper Do?
I'm still not sure what you're saying, but maybe you're over complicating what I said. When I look at the current 4 teams, and compare them to the previous 20 champs, roster by roster, bench play contributions, consistency, team play - I don't think they could beat the previous 20 champs. It's a statement I threw out there for a hypothetical sports discussion - it doesn't need to be relevant to anything, and it doesn matter how many championships anyone has won. I'm saying each of the Bulls, pistons, Spurs, Rockets, and laker championship teams would have beat these 4 current teams. If you don't agree that's cool, but this is the type of stuff hoop heads discuss all the time
ok, i see what you mean. i thought you were referring to the current celtics team as 20 time champs.
#854
What Would Don Draper Do?
yea, that game was ruined by all the foul calling. it totally ruined any fluidity that the game could have had.
the refs, especially this postseason, have been
![Turd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/turd.gif)
but yes, i do agree with you that kobe does his fair share of tricks.
as for your last point, it's no secret that the league's a superstar league. superstars always get the benefit of the doubt in terms of calls and fouls. kobe, lebron, MJ, magic, etc all did. if you so much breathed on MJ, you got whistled. it sucks and isn't fair, but it is what it is.
#856
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Yes game three, thank you for the correction. I agree that Im getting sick of hearing the media bitching about it, but dont you think they have a legit case given the stat we jsut talked about? The officiating in the entire playoffs has been garbage for the most part.
#857
What Would Don Draper Do?
![Yes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/yes.gif)
i can live with the superstar fouls because it's just part of the league whether or not we like it. it kinda works out because most teams have a player that will get the benefit of those calls.
it's the inconsistency that's really ruining it for me.
i'm curious to know how one can become a ref because a lot of these guys have been officiating games since i was in elementary school. bill simmons brought up a good point: how do you expect guys in their 60s to be able to keep up with these players and reply on their deteriorating motor skills?
#858
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as for your last point, it's no secret that the league's a superstar league. superstars always get the benefit of the doubt in terms of calls and fouls. kobe, lebron, MJ, magic, etc all did. if you so much breathed on MJ, you got whistled. it sucks and isn't fair, but it is what it is.
As far as getting away with tricks of the trade, it's obvious Kobe has studied MJ down to the detail in how how to slap defenders arms away, use his arms and elbows to push off without calling attention to it. But defenders also had more leeway in how much contact was allowed in the 80's and 90's. So equal contact on both sides of the ball. But now, I've seen Kobe slap players arms away who weren't even touching him - which is cool if you can get away with it.
#859
What Would Don Draper Do?
I think it's true the MJ and all get/got more calls. But I think it's only part rep status. I think if you drive into the lane a lot, you'll get fouled more often. See Dwayne Wade, who gets a lot of foul calls, and almost all of it is legit. You come into the lane hard, chances are you're gonna get hacked.
As far as getting away with tricks of the trade, it's obvious Kobe has studied MJ down to the detail in how how to slap defenders arms away, use his arms and elbows to push off without calling attention to it. But defenders also had more leeway in how much contact was allowed in the 80's and 90's. So equal contact on both sides of the ball. But now, I've seen Kobe slap players arms away who weren't even touching him - which is cool if you can get away with it.
As far as getting away with tricks of the trade, it's obvious Kobe has studied MJ down to the detail in how how to slap defenders arms away, use his arms and elbows to push off without calling attention to it. But defenders also had more leeway in how much contact was allowed in the 80's and 90's. So equal contact on both sides of the ball. But now, I've seen Kobe slap players arms away who weren't even touching him - which is cool if you can get away with it.
![Leg Hump](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/leghump.gif)
#860
What Would Don Draper Do?
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_....html?rss=true
We're not quite halfway to Kobe-LeBron I with the Lakers doing their part, ahead 2-1 on the Denver Nuggets, while the Cavs fell behind 2-1 with Sunday night's loss to the Orlando Magic. I'm not one who believes these things are manipulated. Not when the Spurs and Nets played in the NBA Finals.
But the NBA has erred in a big way in that famous appearance of a conflict of interest. ESPN is a full partner with the NBA, not only in televising games, but with the TV networks able to dictate scheduling of the playoff games. So here is the NBA on its web site promoting a one hour special ESPN has been running called "Dream Season: 23 & 24," which is clearly about Bryant and James meeting in the NBA Finals. It's supposedly a documentary focusing on the pair's basketball careers. But there are obvious comparisons made with Wilt and Russell and Magic and Bird and having an opponent in the Finals who defines you.
It's one thing for Nike to be running these ads with James and Bryant puppets. We know what they are selling. But for the NBA to be cooperating with its partner to feature Bryant and James this way is shocking and leads to just what the NBA tries to fight all the time: The idea that it manipulates series for the best television and ratings matchup.
Especially coming after disgraced referee Tim Donaghy alleged something similar, suggesting referees make calls to favor the stars in the playoffs, the thinking being if they please the league and a better matchup occurs, the referees will get the choice Finals assignments and thus much more pay. I believe it's nonsense and I also have found the many referees I know to have high levels of integrity.
So I cannot believe the NBA would not ask ESPN to at least hold off until after the conference finals on this kind of thing. I know the NBA has influence in its contract with what ESPN can say regarding certain issues. Remember when all the ESPN experts after the Palace brawl suggested the Pacers were provoked, and then after David Stern "talked" to them they decided it was an outrage. Dwight Howard, who fouled out of Game 2 after an obvious missed foul call for James, who shot a stunning 24 free throws in Game 3, was asked after Sunday about the league and ESPN featuring Kobe and LeBron and said all they could do was try to win the game.
Yes, Howard fouled out for the third time in the playoffs and has been in foul trouble virtually all series against the Cavs. James, who was voted first team all-defense and was runner up to Howard in defensive player of the year, again is being called for the fewest fouls of any of the top players in the playoffs.
James, who is averaging almost 14 free throws per game in the playoffs and only just started to defend Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu after hiding early in the series on Rafer Alston, is averaging 1.6 fouls per game in the playoffs and never has been in foul trouble with a three fouls the most he's been called for in any game.
It's still hard to believe.
Bryant is averaging 2.6 fouls and has had four fouls four times. Carmelo Anthony is averaging 3.9 fouls per game and five times has had five and fouled out once. Howard is averaging more than four fouls per game and has fouled out of three playoff games and had five fouls three times. James is great. There's no doubt. Better than Kobe, as Jerry West said? Better than Jordan eventually? as some suggest. Who knows. But just that someone is in the debate is remarkable. We've never seen a player like James, the amazing combination of power and skill. James' dramatic game winner in Game 2 was an alltime great shot, in many ways better than Jordan's series winner against the Cavs in 1989 because less time was remaining and it was a far longer shot.
It wasn't a series clincher, so it was in some respects like the Bulls/Celtics playoffs this season. Perhaps the best series ever but hardly the most significant. Jordan's shot was way more significant because of the circumstances. But you can't be in the middle of everything as James is on a team that relies on one player like perhaps no other conference finals team ever-OK, maybe the 1989 Bulls-and be called for so few fouls.
I know. They said it was the same way with Jordan. He got every call.
OK, let's go to the record book.
In that 1989 series against the Cavs when Jordan was last at his most one man gang, Jordan actually fouled out of Game 4 and averaged four fouls per game in that opening series against the Cavs. Five more times in those playoffs as the Bulls beat the Knicks in six and lost to the Pistons in six Jordan had five fouls in a game. It's the playoffs. The play is rougher than the regular season. You get involved in tougher matchups, though James does rest on defense a lot other than when he is chasing guys from behind for highlight blocks. But Jordan always had a high number of playoff fouls. The season before when the Bulls beat Cleveland in five games, Jordan fouled out of Game 4 in Cleveland. In 1991 when the Bulls won their first championship, Jordan was in foul trouble with five in two of the five Finals games. It simply defies logic to see James at the free throw line so much and virtually never being called for a foul.
But the NBA has erred in a big way in that famous appearance of a conflict of interest. ESPN is a full partner with the NBA, not only in televising games, but with the TV networks able to dictate scheduling of the playoff games. So here is the NBA on its web site promoting a one hour special ESPN has been running called "Dream Season: 23 & 24," which is clearly about Bryant and James meeting in the NBA Finals. It's supposedly a documentary focusing on the pair's basketball careers. But there are obvious comparisons made with Wilt and Russell and Magic and Bird and having an opponent in the Finals who defines you.
It's one thing for Nike to be running these ads with James and Bryant puppets. We know what they are selling. But for the NBA to be cooperating with its partner to feature Bryant and James this way is shocking and leads to just what the NBA tries to fight all the time: The idea that it manipulates series for the best television and ratings matchup.
Especially coming after disgraced referee Tim Donaghy alleged something similar, suggesting referees make calls to favor the stars in the playoffs, the thinking being if they please the league and a better matchup occurs, the referees will get the choice Finals assignments and thus much more pay. I believe it's nonsense and I also have found the many referees I know to have high levels of integrity.
So I cannot believe the NBA would not ask ESPN to at least hold off until after the conference finals on this kind of thing. I know the NBA has influence in its contract with what ESPN can say regarding certain issues. Remember when all the ESPN experts after the Palace brawl suggested the Pacers were provoked, and then after David Stern "talked" to them they decided it was an outrage. Dwight Howard, who fouled out of Game 2 after an obvious missed foul call for James, who shot a stunning 24 free throws in Game 3, was asked after Sunday about the league and ESPN featuring Kobe and LeBron and said all they could do was try to win the game.
Yes, Howard fouled out for the third time in the playoffs and has been in foul trouble virtually all series against the Cavs. James, who was voted first team all-defense and was runner up to Howard in defensive player of the year, again is being called for the fewest fouls of any of the top players in the playoffs.
James, who is averaging almost 14 free throws per game in the playoffs and only just started to defend Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu after hiding early in the series on Rafer Alston, is averaging 1.6 fouls per game in the playoffs and never has been in foul trouble with a three fouls the most he's been called for in any game.
It's still hard to believe.
Bryant is averaging 2.6 fouls and has had four fouls four times. Carmelo Anthony is averaging 3.9 fouls per game and five times has had five and fouled out once. Howard is averaging more than four fouls per game and has fouled out of three playoff games and had five fouls three times. James is great. There's no doubt. Better than Kobe, as Jerry West said? Better than Jordan eventually? as some suggest. Who knows. But just that someone is in the debate is remarkable. We've never seen a player like James, the amazing combination of power and skill. James' dramatic game winner in Game 2 was an alltime great shot, in many ways better than Jordan's series winner against the Cavs in 1989 because less time was remaining and it was a far longer shot.
It wasn't a series clincher, so it was in some respects like the Bulls/Celtics playoffs this season. Perhaps the best series ever but hardly the most significant. Jordan's shot was way more significant because of the circumstances. But you can't be in the middle of everything as James is on a team that relies on one player like perhaps no other conference finals team ever-OK, maybe the 1989 Bulls-and be called for so few fouls.
I know. They said it was the same way with Jordan. He got every call.
OK, let's go to the record book.
In that 1989 series against the Cavs when Jordan was last at his most one man gang, Jordan actually fouled out of Game 4 and averaged four fouls per game in that opening series against the Cavs. Five more times in those playoffs as the Bulls beat the Knicks in six and lost to the Pistons in six Jordan had five fouls in a game. It's the playoffs. The play is rougher than the regular season. You get involved in tougher matchups, though James does rest on defense a lot other than when he is chasing guys from behind for highlight blocks. But Jordan always had a high number of playoff fouls. The season before when the Bulls beat Cleveland in five games, Jordan fouled out of Game 4 in Cleveland. In 1991 when the Bulls won their first championship, Jordan was in foul trouble with five in two of the five Finals games. It simply defies logic to see James at the free throw line so much and virtually never being called for a foul.
#861
Low & Slow w/Dubz On My
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Im tired of Refs calling some bullshit calls....i mean cmon Dwight Howard had a ball on that blovk against Lebron and call it a foul, WTF!!!
#862
Suzuka Master
Srsly. No consistency whatsoever. Rescinding Johnson's flagrant on Williams was prolly the right call but it's after the fact. I agree with JMT, what's a flagrant and what's not is like a coin toss. Anyhoo, i'm still happy the nuggets dominated.
#872
Safety Car
Well looks like Orlando will be going to the finals and Lebron is going to New York. Nice Pic Jedi..
#874
Safety Car
#876
What Would Don Draper Do?
#880
and i saw lebron play today
him and his 8 TO
how clutch.
and has anyone noticed, everytime Lebron has scored over 40 this series, he lost.
just a thought. hope you go for 45 on thursday
him and his 8 TO
how clutch.
and has anyone noticed, everytime Lebron has scored over 40 this series, he lost.
just a thought. hope you go for 45 on thursday