Ummm...Greztky was the focal point of the Oilers at that time, but you cannot say that Messier was the one who made the team. Of course Greztky's stats may be inflated because of the players he played with: Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikannen, Coffee, Smith, Lowe, Huddy, just to name a few.

From what I remembered, the teams always put the best players against Gretzky. Messier's line had the 2nd or 3rd lines playing against him.

Also, you can also say that Mario was a floater too. I remembered watching a few games where Mario always played near the blue line in his own zone, hardly ever making his way down past the face off circles (which is what a true center is supposed to do).

Regardless, I'd hate to see what Mario would have done if he went to a team that had as many good players as the Oilers did during the 80's.

 

Is he?


Career record for goals per game:

#1 Lemieux - .805 (654 goals)

Career record for points per game:

#1 Lemieux - 1.97 (1,601 in 812 games)

 

Knowing Burke, he will make a spash somehow. That's his style.

 

That's what I'm thinking too.

 

I have to disagree...On his own, without Messier, Gretzky won no Cups. Example are the Oilers when he got traded to the Queens...and when Messier left the Rangers when NY opted to keep Gretzky.

 

Bad logic.
The Kings were one illegal stick away from winning the Cup with Gretz. Mess. one the Cup in NY he was still in his "prime". When Gretz went to NY he was passed his prime.

 

Yeah...but New York bought their team in 94, and during the Oiler's playoffs against the Bruins, the Oilers still had many players from the hey days with Gretzky.

That one trade to LA wiped out a lot of LA's young prospects. The Kings had to rebuild around Gretzky.

 

Do you think Gretzky could have won back to back cups with the penguins?

 

fdl, get your numbers checked.

Wayne - GP 1487, Points, 2857 PPG Avg. 1.921

Mario - GP 889. Points, 1701, PPG Avg. 1.913

Wayne Goals - 894 = 1.66 Avg

Mario Goals 683 = 1.30 Avg.

Up to the 2003-04 season.

 

 

he holds the records hes the greatest. averages dont count.
211 more goals and 945 more assists than mario

 

fdl's numbers are out of date anyway.

Wayne is #1 in both categories.

BTW - right from nhl.com

http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8448782.html

http://nhl.com/hockeyu/history/gretzky/careerstats.html

 

That Penguins team reminded me of the Oilers. Dominant 1st line, dominant 2nd line, 4 defensemen who could be #1 d-men on any other team, and a goalie who was able to make the key saves.

 

He played ALOT more games though. I am speaking of pure talent and skill, and the per game totals are a better representation of this. If Mario was healthy, or even didnt retire in 97 , is there ANY doubt that he woudlnt have crushed Gretzky's all time goal record?

 

My numbers are from 2002. Got a link? There is no way Gretzky has a higher goal per game total than mario.

 

i think they are both awesome players...but gretsky is a hockey legend and mario is his little sidekick buddy.

 

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but again.....

 

come on, thats ridiculous. The oilers were a team of all stars and future hall of famers.

 

Dom, did you calculate those totals yourself, because your math, as usual is way off. Especially your goals per game totals.

 

Check the links in my post above.

You left out many of Mario's games.

 

i remember the kovalev, jagr, francis years...pitts wasnt bad at all

 

Highest Goals per Game Average, Career (Min 200 Career Goals)

.768-Mario Lemieux
.762-Mike Bossy
.756-Cy Denneny
.742-Babe Dy
.623-Pavel Bure

Wayne isnt even in the top 5

Youa re right about the points per game. They are about even right now.

 

Look at that line up:

Francis
Recchi
Jagr
Stevens
Lemieux
Coffee
Mullen
Murphy
Samuelsson
Trottier
Young
Barrasso

I think that this team could have give the Oilers a run for their money. And there are many future hall of famers on this roster

 

Kovalev wasnt even on the team back them

Jagr was a rookie!

Come on, there is no comparison.

 

Francis, rechhi and stevens were ok, but not on par with the messiers and kurris, etc.

Coffeee was good but past his prime. Jagr was a kid. the rest are a joke. Trottier? Young? I think you are stretching a bit there.

 

im shot out
but i meant to say all of the above. pitts was a diesel team back in the day

jagr started off his career with 27 goals..he was an unbelievable rook

 

Another comment about the points per game thing, as Mario plays later and later in his career this number will undoubtably drop. A fair comparison would be points per game at the same age.

 

i heard mario was a prick

 

Look, when the pens won those cups they were obviously a good team, but I just dont buy that they were at the calibre of the oilers, who won 4 cups in 5 years. SOrry, i think its a silly comparison.

I also dont want to discount Gretzkys records. But if mario did have health probelms (back, hip, and Cancer!) he would have given Wayne a run for his money on all of his records. And if he had the same team that wayne had, I say he would have beaton those records.

Talent for talent, skill for skill, mario > wayne. Thats my story and i'm sticking to it

 

But wasn't your question "Do you think Gretzky could have won back to back cups with the penguins?"

With that Peguins't roster = a resounding

 

My math was way off for goals per game but at least my researh was right

I'm confused though. If you can divide Games Played by points to come up with the average why can't you do the same with goals?


Anyway, this atrgument like I said 2 pages ago serves no purpose. We can argue all day what Mario would hve done on the Oilers and vice versa but in the end we'll never know.

 

ohhh...good post.

You have 3 post here. One has you claiming kovalev was on the pens when they won the cup, the other is this gem ^^^.

 

see the thing is, he didnt stay healthy, so you cant really assume his stats, which in conclusion means that gretsky > mario

 

Its debatable, but OK.

 

come on, go back and read my posts. Gretz is the great one. No doubt. The all time stats are there. But Lemieux had/has more pure talent and skill. Thats all i am saying.

 

eh tough arguement, they are both amazing, im going to leave it there.

 

Anyways, there is no right or wrong and the debate will rage on

I have a 127 meg lemieux highlight video if someone wants to host it for me. It was put together by an amateur but if you can get past the music its got some great stuff in it.

 

 

ill host it

 

That part I agree with you. Lemieux has more skill and talent than Gretzky. The highlight reels with Lemieux are better than the ones with Gretzky. Lemieux can beat you one on one, which is one thing I never really seen Gretky do.

Gretzky had the vision and the ability to see things that no one could see. I swear Gretzky could slow the game down in his mind and make all those crazy passes.