I tried to search but couldnt find anything on this.. I am curious which would be faster? I am thinking the supercharge TL would be slightly faster?

full bolt on vs supercharger with no support mods

 

a fully bolted on TL is barely reaching 300 to the wheels.

while a supercharged TL is making close to 350....


......

 

Do you regret all of the bolt on's you did? Looking back would you have just supercharged it from the beginning?

 

no, because the supercharger is inefficient.
you wont find a supercharged TL without supporting mods, because it needs the supporting mods.

with the supercharger, you need adequate cooling. you need adequate tuning.
or else things blow up pretty quickly.

i'd rather go turbo before i ever do the supercharger.

also, the TL is my first car that I ever modded for performance.
I learned SOO much by doing the baby mods first.
you need to crawl before you can sprint.

 

The SC is going to need meth injection and a Hondata or other standalone to get the most out of it, especially if you run a high boost pulley, and thats AFTER all the bolt ons - you'll want PCDs or high flow cats, a free flowing exhaust, etc before you even think of doing the SC.

There are alternate routes available if you want to make good power - turbo is definitely more worthwhile for maybe a grand or two more, and will net you significantly more power. However if you have a j35a8, there's a good likelihood you're going to blow something in your bottom end before long - the few people who had the j32a3 turbo'd (libert comes to mind) managed to make good power reliably on stock bottom end for some time.

Also if you're content making sub 350 wheel, a set of aggressive cams (Bisimoto Stage 2s), PnP work and breather mods and a good tune may get you there and you'll enjoy the instant power of a naturally aspirated build

 

I should add though that both of those alternate routes will be AFTER bolt ons. Bolt ons are your entire foundation on the TL... that and some way to tune it!

 

Even if the peak numbers were close, the s/c reaches that peak quickly in the RPM whereas the n/a would likely climb to that number.

 

Definitely true - it will pull harder than NA - but one has to ask, at almost 6k with supporting mods and tuning solution, is it not more worthwhile to just go turbo and have significantly less driveability issues, heatsoak etc

 

Also to boost efficiently, safely and max gains will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $6k-$12k.

Full bolt ons with a tune are in the neighborhood of ~$3k-$4k, or $4k-$6k with head work for max gains.

 

I can't remember how I calculated but I think at about 4k you've got everything bolt on done with PnP, 3.7 mani/tb, and a tune, and maybe cams, and depending on which car and transmission you have this should net you from 270 on a j32a3 5AT to upwards of 300 whp on a 6MT Type S

 

^^ Yea pretty much. I edited my response above to add in head work, but basically we're looking at ~$2k on avg for full exhaust and ~$600-$1k for full intake. Head work can add around ~$3k or more depending where you go, costs can vary wildly there.

But basically, full bolt ons are generally much cheaper than boosting without breaking stuff. Sure, you can get very expensive going all out NA too, but now you're going beyond bolt ons, and the same can apply to boosting as well, as justn said, even there you want / need supporting bolt ons and you can go all out and also do head work and stuff. Just look at Gerzand's work.

 

Its funny i was thinking of supercharging my 08 TL-s for a time now instead of just going fully N/A...

I already have high flow cats and a jpipe and now im waiting to upgrade my exhaust soon so i can get ready for SC but you guys seem to be against it? money is not a problem for me because i love my car but i think SC is way more safe on our cars than turbochargers especially for those of us who have 5AT...

my car currently sits at 173k km and 'apparently' was dealer maintained its entire life since i bought it 6 months ago, is it still worth it to supercharge it? i heard stories of ppl getting into trouble with the water and meth system as the pump won't stop pumping and ends up hydrolocking the engine...

 

The 5AT tranny issues were only really prevalent in earlier TLs - the 07 and 08 5AT is an updated design from Honda and should be rock solid. The reason people are against the SC is because as mentioned earlier, it's seriously inefficient and tends to heat soak uber quickly, sapping power in hotter climates.

A turbo will make more power easier and with less driveability issues, especially since you can now use Hondata to tune it - the downside is you will likely need forged bottom end (at least rods and pistons) to make big power.

Going NA will be the most expensive route, but as said before, if you're not dead set on ridiculous amounts of power and want reliability, you can get a good valve job, Bisimoto Stage 2 cams and 3.7 port and polish mani runners and you're well on your way to big powe, especially with a good Hondata tune.

 

You need supporting mods in a supercharged car. If I'm not mistaken, exhaust mods will cool down the SC and help it run more efficiently. But I would put $ on my car vs. a SC only (no supporting mods) car.

It's all about what you want out of your car. A SC car will be very fun once modded correctly and probably make 320+whp with ease, potentially more depending on which blower you choose. There is a SC Accord close by me with some supporting mods, so hopefully I will get to run him at some point

 

Well if i was going to SC my car i will have to do the next: exhaust, hondata tune, transmission cooler and do a 3x3 with redline ATF

and that's about it i think? idk i like the idea of going the bolt on route and i heard comptech is a reputable name in the SC business.

I still think more can go wrong with turbo then SC...

 

you forgot cooling, how are you going to cool it?
either meth or intercooler is needed. DONT sleep on cooling, or its going to blow.

 

Was thinking about meth but i heard a lot of horror stories its hydorlocking the engines...

 

still think SC is safer than turbocharging!?


either way; you're going to be spending $6-12k and its going to be way less reliable than stock.

 

eh what can you do, thats life right

 

you have to pay to play, so as long as you know what you're getting yourself into, then its all good!

 

Even though I agree, as far as I can tell, going all out this way is still a bit unproven. We simply don't have enough evidence yet to justify head / valve work with aggressive cams. Keep in mind that all this puts you in early / simple ~ low boost territory cost wise.

Until we have more solid results from head work, I think the best $ / hp is just full bolt ons with just a stage 1 cam (drop-in, no PnP, no springs / retainers) and a tune.

Bisi claims only a 5% diff between their stage 1 and 2 profiles, and that just doesn't seem to be worth the added cost of springs and retainers, plus at that point you might as well do a PnP and valve job...and a CR bump...one thing leads to another. Of course, this is all speculation, we just don't have enough people with before and after dynos to test all the potential variations.

One example is ILC's 317hp with head work vs Locomaaan's 310hp without head work. Naturally, differences in supporting mods, different dynos, cam profiles and tunes add a grain of salt here. Like I said, just not enough data yet.

 

For someone just getting into boost, the SC is nice because it allows you to use the performance parts you already have. Aftermarket j pipes, high flow cats or cat deletes are all compatible with the SC. Unless you are planing to use a rear mount turbo, much of the exhaust parts are replaced with a turbo kit and you end up having to sell a bunch of stuff.

The whine of a SC is also very satisfying and really adds to the fun.

 

LOL, i can't even find anyone in my area that will even do PnP work. buncha fucking bums around here

 

Just do yourself the favor and send it to Gerzand. You could probably order it so that its shipped to him, and then he'll send it to you when done. He's done PnP for tons of people on here and v6p

 

I'll take this the direction you asked - full bolt on would be about 270 - 290 whp depending on dyno, engine condition, etc. I don't see 300 whp from a full bolt on NA TL, unless you're counting cams as bolt-on, and even then you'd better count your blesings.

An "otherwise stock" TL with a comptech supercharger would be LUCKY to see 290 whp. There were numerous examples years ago of them making 250 - 270 whp. Granted, that was with the Comptech ACM garbage pseudo tuning. Let's at least compare properly tuned setups - a flashpro tuned supercharger on a stock motor would probably make about 290 whp at BEST.

So, either NA vs supercharger, you're about evenly matched HP wise, with the NA having an edge towards cost, considering how expensive the SC is.

You'll have more torque with the SC though, but what good is the torque if you just spin your tires or have VSA cut in?

You'll likely have more noise with the NA setup as you will need an aftermarket exhaust, HFPC or PCDs, etc. That WILL make the car at least mildly louder.

You'll undoubtedly be more reliable with the NA setup.

My car made 240 whp bone stock. I put PCDs on it and would do a full exhaust and a supercharger and be happy if I could get to 350 whp - but that is a high strung comptech blower on the ragged edge. I'd rather go turbo and have an easy 350whp and the ability to go bigger with only the expense of fortifying the motor.

As cool as a turbo is, the sound of a roots blower is pretty damn cool. I start having delusions that I could retrofit an M90 in place of the intake manifold - if I could do that, I'd be happy. I think the way comptech mounts the blower is stupid, but I see why they did it (packaging).

 

Bisi relies on computer models for his gains. Therefore, I cannot take his cams seriously. With that said, 5% at our power level is anywhere from 12-15hp, so definitely good gains.

 

Use tht $5000 and get a more efficient S/C.. Cant remember what kind of S/C comptec uses but for the $ you spend its def not worth it IMO. Go turbo or pay a shop $5000 and have them do a Vortech V2 S/C kit. Probably make about 100 more hp lmfao. 80whp from a S/C is a fuggin joke

 

E-85, SC (M62) and low boost pulley. I was going to go that route for my TL but moved my focus to the GSR. To go FI on the b-series platform you are still looking at spending some coin.

The comptech SC is a positive displacement pump it has a fixed amount of air it moves per rev, it's not efficient from the get go, but it's a proven design that's simple. FI no matter how it's produced generates more heat, cooling is a good idea but it depends on what you do with your TL.

3.5 psi to 5 psi to get 60-70 whp is not bad, look on the blackmakert, they run about $2500 to $3000

 

I wouldnt bother with the comptech m62 SC. Its WAY under sized for these engines. IF i were to SC it i would build a M90 to fit. It will make more power with far less boost and heat.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...ch-kit-694376/

 

I would get the M62 kit, even if it is undersized, get used to the power and then custom fab a mount and adapter to run the Rotrex SC with intercooler in place of the M62 unit.

 

Heres a good tip on how to make good power, buy a new car. I did, 2013 Audi S4 and never looking back.

 

Dude wth.. I hate when ppl do that.. And when u wanna add power to your car im gonna come to your forum and say.. Just buy a lambo.. Wtf man.. TL's arent the best performance platform neither is the S4.. I actually do love the B8 and want one but cmon. Stay on topic as far as modding the TL.. That is what the OP has...... OP i say V2 S/c and meth

 

 

Be sure not to look back when your warranty runs out

 

Sorry guys, had to do it, I loved the car but as far as adding power it is not easy without a lot of work. Staying N/A will only be possible to get to a little less than 300 whp with $10G invested. If you want to turbo or supercharge you better build the engine first because the J32 has weak piston ringlands.

If you have an automatic I just wouldnt bother too much with making more power as their is such a big powertrain loss in power to begin with. Either way if you want your engine to last you will have to build the engine with forced induction. The ECU is a big problem I found on these cars too, it would pull hard if you pulled the battery for an hour but once it adapted it would be slow from 1k-4k rpm. ECU support doesnt look to be big on this platform either. If I had a good amount of money to mod a manual TL, I would do MS3, forged internals, turbo, new gears to handle the turbo, new clutch, meth, exhuast, intake, jpipe, no cats, cams, ported heads, R comp tires. After all that you still will have a hard time outting to the ground because FWD and it would cost as much as a new car.

As far as the B8.5 S4 goes, it has a good track record for reliablity so I am not worried. Supercharger pulley and tune with net me around 90 AWHP gain. I had fun with the TL but it is not the best modding platform

 

^^

We now have Flashpro, so no need to dick around with MS3 or pulling batteries.


And as to the original question posed by the OP, I've often wondered the same thing. I bet it's closer than you think, with a slight edge to the S/C car. A CT supercharged 6MT with no supporting mods would put down around 280-285 I think, where as a bolt on/tuned car would be conservatively in the 260's. But the one thing no one has mentioned is the fact the N/A car will be 120-130 lbs lighter. Pulley, CAI, 3.7 manifold swap, PCDs, J pipe, cat back will knock off ~60 lbs cumulatively and I think the CT supercharger weighs ~70? That 130 lb advantage should offset a good portion of the power difference.


I do know a FBO/tuned 6MT will stomp a S/C only 5AT.

 

Flashpro for 04, 05, and 06? Last I was here it was only for 07 and 08

 

There's an adapter and you switch out your ECU for an 07-08 one.

And sure, a 04-06 5at will have a very hard time, but a base or type s 6mt can get to 280-300whp NA for under $5k, not $10k.

 

Yes, as long as their manual transmissions. We have great sale pricing on the flashpro (there is the adapter if you have an A/T, as FamilyGuy mentioned)

 

Comparing a Car that's N/A, built from 04-08, FWD and cost much less than an S4. Is that really fair?

Fun Fact, I beat a 2014 S4 and 2013 S4 at Road America Winter AutoX course in my TL with snow tires Feb 21st 2015.


All the cool kids have FlashPro. Don't mind the signatures