One option; and buy the TLX SH-AWD V6 for 57,000
04-06-2014, 11:39 PM
#201
A PD is a race winning driver who has had great success driving Acura's in the World Challenge Series. Curiously, his name is Pete Cunningham which should make his nickname PC but it isn't. Maybe someone can tell us why? Is it a shortening of "Petey"?
Peter Cunningham on Wikipedia
Peter Cunningham on Wikipedia
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internalaudit (04-07-2014)
04-07-2014, 07:59 AM
#202
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But let's face it: From what I've experienced with the 310 HP J35 in the RLX so far, the same motor in the TLX is going to provide some startling and inspiring mid range performance.
So even if they don't give us something with cams or a single blower, or whatever, it'll still be a very nice car.
If they're winning races, it'd be a very nice thing to be able to capitalize on it. It won't be a homologation special like the ITR was, but, still....
Oh, well.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
:-)
Yes to what Colin said, but in addition he's the managing partner of Realtime Racing.
And what's really nice is that he interfaces nicely with the enthusiasts and is a good person to have at the front of Acura public relations.
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internalaudit (04-07-2014)
04-07-2014, 11:37 AM
#203
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No don't get me wrong, great if you have the time and desire, however you do a have a right to your privacy is all but I couldn't resist, just an attempt to make light of the discussion around here, even if we get a bit off topic or what the relevancy of that sort of thing is.
Drag times about 3 minutes in, road race times with Lambo about 6 minutes in. My car is a clone of the red roadster. The beginning is mostly a FFR commercial, the Vid & tests were done by Hot Rod Unlimited for Motor Trend.
04-07-2014, 11:47 AM
#204
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Taurus SHO: 4358lb
300C: 4340lb
300C SRT8: 4390lb
Charger SRT: 4305lb
Also keep in mind, TLX is smaller than the existing 4G TL.
Bingo. That's exactly where the problem is with Acura. It's stuck with sedans and SUV's only. There's no extension of each product line. That also answers your concern that the average price paid for a TL is $36k. You can't sell what you don't have. You can't sell at a higher average price if the most expensive TL is only $45k. You can't push it much higher without a real performance model. Also note that I said "halo" not halo regarding this imaginary TLX twin turbo. All it means is that it's a top of the line high performance version of TLX.
300C: 4340lb
300C SRT8: 4390lb
Charger SRT: 4305lb
Also keep in mind, TLX is smaller than the existing 4G TL.
Because they are all multi-line performance car manufactures unlike Acura with the one 4 door car fits all product line. Each of their performance cars fits within its & is an extension of its own specific product line. M3/4 - M5/6 etc. They are not halo cars but regular production cars at the top of their line like the TL SHAWD Advance. The halo cars are the $120K & up plus versions
04-07-2014, 12:13 PM
#205
Three Wheelin'
Of course that sound was enhanced anyway you look at it but there is talks around that it is true to the actual production car in some capacity, so who knows? Sounds extra rev happy for a J series. Also agree the GT car is a possible hint at something more coming out as well at some point with this gen TLX. At this point a 6MT or 7MT would be a nice surprise even if only the 310 hp version.
04-07-2014, 01:46 PM
#206
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Taurus SHO: 4358lb
300C: 4340lb
300C SRT8: 4390lb
Charger SRT: 4305lb
Also keep in mind, TLX is smaller than the existing 4G TL.
Bingo. That's exactly where the problem is with Acura. It's stuck with sedans and SUV's only. There's no extension of each product line. That also answers your concern that the average price paid for a TL is $36k. You can't sell what you don't have. You can't sell at a higher average price if the most expensive TL is only $45k. You can't push it much higher without a real performance model. Also note that I said "halo" not halo regarding this imaginary TLX twin turbo. All it means is that it's a top of the line high performance version of TLX.
300C: 4340lb
300C SRT8: 4390lb
Charger SRT: 4305lb
Also keep in mind, TLX is smaller than the existing 4G TL.
Bingo. That's exactly where the problem is with Acura. It's stuck with sedans and SUV's only. There's no extension of each product line. That also answers your concern that the average price paid for a TL is $36k. You can't sell what you don't have. You can't sell at a higher average price if the most expensive TL is only $45k. You can't push it much higher without a real performance model. Also note that I said "halo" not halo regarding this imaginary TLX twin turbo. All it means is that it's a top of the line high performance version of TLX.
Thing is the Charger is a bit fat but its also 475hp & 470ftlbs of torque. As for the rest there is a gem buried in there. Instead of dumping development money into a turbo why not into a Coupe & Convert targeting the mid $50's to fill out the product line?
I still think sales of the 377hp RLX Hybrid will give a good indication for the markets acceptance of a near or greater than $60K Acura.
The RLX's designated development target the 5 series is selling at near twice the rate the TL sells at while a years worth of of RLX sales would not cover a mid level month of 5 sales. The 5 series is also sporting 240hp 4cyl & 300hp 6cyl engines in most of those sales. Raw horsepower is obliviously not driving the sales.
04-07-2014, 05:17 PM
#207
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The current non hybrid RLX is about 4000lbs(Hybrid 4350lbs) the Accord 4 door about 3600lbs. The TLX should fall between the two.
Thing is the Charger is a bit fat but its also 475hp & 470ftlbs of torque. As for the rest there is a gem buried in there. Instead of dumping development money into a turbo why not into a Coupe & Convert targeting the mid $50's to fill out the product line?
I still think sales of the 377hp RLX Hybrid will give a good indication for the markets acceptance of a near or greater than $60K Acura.
The RLX's designated development target the 5 series is selling at near twice the rate the TL sells at while a years worth of of RLX sales would not cover a mid level month of 5 sales. The 5 series is also sporting 240hp 4cyl & 300hp 6cyl engines in most of those sales. Raw horsepower is obliviously not driving the sales.
Thing is the Charger is a bit fat but its also 475hp & 470ftlbs of torque. As for the rest there is a gem buried in there. Instead of dumping development money into a turbo why not into a Coupe & Convert targeting the mid $50's to fill out the product line?
I still think sales of the 377hp RLX Hybrid will give a good indication for the markets acceptance of a near or greater than $60K Acura.
The RLX's designated development target the 5 series is selling at near twice the rate the TL sells at while a years worth of of RLX sales would not cover a mid level month of 5 sales. The 5 series is also sporting 240hp 4cyl & 300hp 6cyl engines in most of those sales. Raw horsepower is obliviously not driving the sales.
Only the SRT8 variant is at ~470hp. The R/T and 300C are at around 370hp and are just as fast as the existing TL SH-AWD 6MT.
I also strongly agree that other variants should also be considered, such as coupe, convertible, wagon, etc. This $57k TLX Twin turbo is only ONE variant. I'm not saying that's the ONLY variant that Acura should consider.
We all know most sales come from the "lesser" trims. In the 5 series case, the 528i and 535i. These sell well because BMW has a great reputation of selling luxury cars. Where did that reputation come from? Well, probably having the likes of M3, M5, Z4, F1 racing helps.
Acura has no such reputation. As such, once it gets to the $50k sedan market, it becomes an issue.
Again, I stress that it doesn't have to be just performance. Look at Lexus, it's doing well by making their cars ultra smooth and quiet. And it took them a well to become well established.
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04-07-2014, 08:06 PM
#208
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They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
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rockyfeller (04-11-2014)
04-07-2014, 09:31 PM
#210
Racer
Difference is management. Toyota planned from day one to be a MB clone at an attractive price. At 50 feet you could not visually tell the difference between it & the S series it emulated. They stuck with the formula & grew the product line in a strong & consistent manner. If you look at the original Lexus & todays big model you can tell they are from the same car company.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
Honda cannot premium price its Acura line so much and this benefits prospective buyers such as myself.
I'm no car enthusiast and an Acura TLX SH-AWD should be good enough for our needs.
Last edited by internalaudit; 04-07-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (04-07-2014)
04-07-2014, 10:19 PM
#211
04-07-2014, 10:24 PM
#212
Three Wheelin'
Difference is management. Toyota planned from day one to be a MB clone at an attractive price. At 50 feet you could not visually tell the difference between it & the S series it emulated. They stuck with the formula & grew the product line in a strong & consistent manner. If you look at the original Lexus & todays big model you can tell they are from the same car company.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
Sure, evolve it over time, but don't go so far left or right field where you alienate your core base by making drastic changes. Real design is one where you can see the "core values" across the lineage of the products. The same about Lexus can be said about BMW, from the first beamers to the current ones, you KNOW....it's a beamer. Period. And that in IMO is real success in design through consistency and repeatability while staying relevant and fresh. You keep your core base, while slowly attracting more and more people to your brand.
I believe Acura is headed in the right direction now, slowly but cautiously making the right moves...the question is will they stick to their guns...
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04-07-2014, 10:45 PM
#213
Well said, and something I keep saying over and over again. To build real longevity and solid brand recognition, you have to create a foundation, and then stick to it.
Sure, evolve it over time, but don't go so far left or right field where you alienate your core base by making drastic changes. Real design is one where you can see the "core values" across the lineage of the products. The same about Lexus can be said about BMW, from the first beamers to the current ones, you KNOW....it's a beamer. Period. And that in IMO is real success in design through consistency and repeatability while staying relevant and fresh. You keep your core base, while slowly attracting more and more people to your brand.
I believe Acura is headed in the right direction now, slowly but cautiously making the right moves...the question is will they stick to their guns...
Sure, evolve it over time, but don't go so far left or right field where you alienate your core base by making drastic changes. Real design is one where you can see the "core values" across the lineage of the products. The same about Lexus can be said about BMW, from the first beamers to the current ones, you KNOW....it's a beamer. Period. And that in IMO is real success in design through consistency and repeatability while staying relevant and fresh. You keep your core base, while slowly attracting more and more people to your brand.
I believe Acura is headed in the right direction now, slowly but cautiously making the right moves...the question is will they stick to their guns...
04-07-2014, 11:17 PM
#214
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News flash, this is not Germany & the 2002 is considered an icon by most car enthusiasts.
Generally well accepted statement on the 2002
"Using the engine and suspension of the original four-door design in a smaller and lighter two-door unit body, the 02 series, especially the 2002, caught auto enthusiasts' attention and established BMW as an international brand."
& yes Ray Charles could see how the car evolved into todays.
BTW what do you drive?
Generally well accepted statement on the 2002
"Using the engine and suspension of the original four-door design in a smaller and lighter two-door unit body, the 02 series, especially the 2002, caught auto enthusiasts' attention and established BMW as an international brand."
& yes Ray Charles could see how the car evolved into todays.
BTW what do you drive?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-07-2014 at 11:27 PM.
04-08-2014, 12:58 AM
#215
Three Wheelin'
of what I think of the product. And even I can tell you the 2002 is an iconic vehicle in the history of BMW. I look at that car and I see a...BMW. And that in itself is their sucess in acheiving brand recognition.
I have a number of years working in product development and product management in the tech industry and the most successful companies are the ones that succeed in building a simple and recognizable trait through their products that even the most simple minded consumers can associate and connect themselves with. Whether its the taste of a food product, the color of a certain logo, the feel of a certain clothing item, or the emotion created the look of a car...creating foundational and recognizable elements through product design are key to being successful with a product.
I'm not the enemy of Acura, so stop trying to debate me like I am. I wouldnt be driving a 2014 RLX if I didnt believe in Acura. And I sure as hell wouldnt be on my 5th Honda/Acura car after all these years if I didnt enjoy their proudcts. However I am also not timid enough to not be able to see improvement when and where it's needed. I want to see Acura grow and improve. And growth and improvments dont come through arse kissing.
Last edited by holografique; 04-08-2014 at 01:03 AM.
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04-08-2014, 01:53 AM
#216
News flash, this is not Germany & the 2002 is considered an icon by most car enthusiasts.
Generally well accepted statement on the 2002
"Using the engine and suspension of the original four-door design in a smaller and lighter two-door unit body, the 02 series, especially the 2002, caught auto enthusiasts' attention and established BMW as an international brand."
& yes Ray Charles could see how the car evolved into todays.
BTW what do you drive?
Generally well accepted statement on the 2002
"Using the engine and suspension of the original four-door design in a smaller and lighter two-door unit body, the 02 series, especially the 2002, caught auto enthusiasts' attention and established BMW as an international brand."
& yes Ray Charles could see how the car evolved into todays.
BTW what do you drive?
04-08-2014, 02:18 AM
#217
dude, you really need to learn how to debate. I said NOTHING about reliability or whether it was pretty or ugly. I said that you can see the clear evolution of their design through consistent and repeatable design themes they have maintained throughout the history of their vehicles. I'm not a big fan of BMW, but even I recognize sucess through achievements in design regardless
of what I think of the product. And even I can tell you the 2002 is an iconic vehicle in the history of BMW. I look at that car and I see a...BMW. And that in itself is their sucess in acheiving brand recognition.
I have a number of years working in product development and product management in the tech industry and the most successful companies are the ones that succeed in building a simple and recognizable trait through their products that even the most simple minded consumers can associate and connect themselves with. Whether its the taste of a food product, the color of a certain logo, the feel of a certain clothing item, or the emotion created the look of a car...creating foundational and recognizable elements through product design are key to being successful with a product.
I'm not the enemy of Acura, so stop trying to debate me like I am. I wouldnt be driving a 2014 RLX if I didnt believe in Acura. And I sure as hell wouldnt be on my 5th Honda/Acura car after all these years if I didnt enjoy their proudcts. However I am also not timid enough to not be able to see improvement when and where it's needed. I want to see Acura grow and improve. And growth and improvments dont come through arse kissing.
of what I think of the product. And even I can tell you the 2002 is an iconic vehicle in the history of BMW. I look at that car and I see a...BMW. And that in itself is their sucess in acheiving brand recognition.
I have a number of years working in product development and product management in the tech industry and the most successful companies are the ones that succeed in building a simple and recognizable trait through their products that even the most simple minded consumers can associate and connect themselves with. Whether its the taste of a food product, the color of a certain logo, the feel of a certain clothing item, or the emotion created the look of a car...creating foundational and recognizable elements through product design are key to being successful with a product.
I'm not the enemy of Acura, so stop trying to debate me like I am. I wouldnt be driving a 2014 RLX if I didnt believe in Acura. And I sure as hell wouldnt be on my 5th Honda/Acura car after all these years if I didnt enjoy their proudcts. However I am also not timid enough to not be able to see improvement when and where it's needed. I want to see Acura grow and improve. And growth and improvments dont come through arse kissing.
A TLX V6 SH-AWD TT might not be for everyone; I never mentioned that, nevertheless this will attract the aficionados and purists, hence it will play a roll as a great marketing tool. Mix the TLX TT GT race car and hopefully in 2015 the NSX. I believe Acura is changing direction and I assume its the right one. Time will tell.
04-08-2014, 07:53 AM
#218
Senior Moderator
I think this thread has about run its course...............
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04-08-2014, 11:16 AM
#219
04-08-2014, 11:32 AM
#220
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Difference is management. Toyota planned from day one to be a MB clone at an attractive price. At 50 feet you could not visually tell the difference between it & the S series it emulated. They stuck with the formula & grew the product line in a strong & consistent manner. If you look at the original Lexus & todays big model you can tell they are from the same car company.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
They are the leader among the Japanese car manufactures of luxury cars because they had a goal, a good plan to get there & stuck too it even when people were making fun of them.
Acura has been all over the lot in what they want to be. In other words it does not look like there is any set plan just a bunch of reacting & direction changes seemly at random. The 2G does not look like the 3G. The 3G does not look like the 4G. But thankfully the 4G does not look like the 5G.
We are going to be Tier 1, no wait on tier 1 lets do smart luxury, most powerful Acura ever, not we are not doing all out performance MPG is important during these times & so on. They really need a grownup to set a reasonable plan then have the guts to stick to it & not continuously blow in the wind.
I agree. Initially, Honda's goal was to make Acura a Honda+ brand - a brand that allows sells higher performance and/or more luxury vehicles so that Honda can enjoy a higher profit margin. As such, they came out with the Integra (Civic+) and Legend (Accord+). That's quite different than the Lexus' approach. Honda was simply not as ambitious with the Acura brand at the very beginning. The foundation was laid at that time, and it's quite difficult to change that now.
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04-08-2014, 12:05 PM
#221
I agree. Initially, Honda's goal was to make Acura a Honda+ brand - a brand that allows sells higher performance and/or more luxury vehicles so that Honda can enjoy a higher profit margin. As such, they came out with the Integra (Civic+) and Legend (Accord+). That's quite different than the Lexus' approach. Honda was simply not as ambitious with the Acura brand at the very beginning. The foundation was laid at that time, and it's quite difficult to change that now.
Acura announced independency from Honda to a certain extend. The TLX GT TT Race car, the NSX 2015. Besides Honda's commitment with McLaren. Marketing money is not the issue. Philosophy is.
"Honda to make 2015 return with McLaren
McLaren have confirmed a multi-year technology partnership with Honda, reviving one of the most famous technical associations in Formula One history.
From the start of 2015, McLaren's cars will be powered by Honda engines and energy recovery systems, renewing a relationship between the two companies that won four drivers’ championships, four constructors’ championships and 44 Grand Prix’s between 1988 and 1992."
Everything together looks to me like changing direction, time will tell.
04-08-2014, 01:51 PM
#222
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I agree. Initially, Honda's goal was to make Acura a Honda+ brand - a brand that allows sells higher performance and/or more luxury vehicles so that Honda can enjoy a higher profit margin. As such, they came out with the Integra (Civic+) and Legend (Accord+). That's quite different than the Lexus' approach. Honda was simply not as ambitious with the Acura brand at the very beginning. The foundation was laid at that time, and it's quite difficult to change that now.
They might want to look at Hyundai on how to build a high end product line. Specific RWD platform V8 engine with a V8R performance motor at the top just like the other players have.. Hyundai/Kia will have better luck fighting off the economy car stereotype because they used a clean sheet of paper to build a car more in tune to what buyers are looking for.
The Genesis is out selling the TL & the Equus which starts at $61K & can run up to $70K is outselling the RLX. Was a time you could not give a Hunyadi away but the looked ahead & saw where they needed to go. Pretty much copying the Lexus marketing plan. Their sub KIA just launched the K900 V8 starting at $60K
04-08-2014, 03:14 PM
#223
That's Acura's problem. Inspire of being able to build first class race engines they have never translated that to their street cars. After the first year or two of the 3G the start performance was always at the back of the pack in the price range. Its still considered by most buyer as a Accord + a good value for the money but nothing outstanding.
They might want to look at Hyundai on how to build a high end product line. Specific RWD platform V8 engine with a V8R performance motor at the top just like the other players have.. Hyundai/Kia will have better luck fighting off the economy car stereotype because they used a clean sheet of paper to build a car more in tune to what buyers are looking for.
The Genesis is out selling the TL & the Equus which starts at $61K & can run up to $70K is outselling the RLX. Was a time you could not give a Hunyadi away but the looked ahead & saw where they needed to go. Pretty much copying the Lexus marketing plan. Their sub KIA just launched the K900 V8 starting at $60K
They might want to look at Hyundai on how to build a high end product line. Specific RWD platform V8 engine with a V8R performance motor at the top just like the other players have.. Hyundai/Kia will have better luck fighting off the economy car stereotype because they used a clean sheet of paper to build a car more in tune to what buyers are looking for.
The Genesis is out selling the TL & the Equus which starts at $61K & can run up to $70K is outselling the RLX. Was a time you could not give a Hunyadi away but the looked ahead & saw where they needed to go. Pretty much copying the Lexus marketing plan. Their sub KIA just launched the K900 V8 starting at $60K
I now, no one here will change your mind, even if the future might prove your wrong, you will senselessly further try to debate; even when facts are on the table.
VTEC - (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) is a system developed by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda comes directly out of Hondas Formula one developed engines. First commercially used in Europe saw the arrival of VTEC in the Honda CRX 1.6i-VT, using a 150 bhp variant (B16A1).
The US market saw the first VTEC system with the introduction of the 1991 Acura NSX, which used a 3-litre DOHC VTEC V6 with 270 bhp (200 kW). Besides VTEC there is much more. Nevertheless, I think everyone knows VTEC, more than half the auto industry started using it under all kinds of different names.
04-08-2014, 03:57 PM
#224
Sorry for the above spelling, still learning English - In a hurry as well.
04-08-2014, 04:06 PM
#225
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Kevin, see here is your problem, you live in the past...............................The US market saw the first VTEC system with the introduction of the 1991 Acura NSX, which used a 3-litre DOHC VTEC V6 with 270 bhp (200 kW). Besides VTEC there is much more. Nevertheless,
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Its was available back as far as I can remember. Nice to see Honda caught up with the rest of the world with DI. Looks like they can eventually move forward. Major advance in 1991 next major advance 2014.
04-08-2014, 05:20 PM
#226
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That's Acura's problem. Inspire of being able to build first class race engines they have never translated that to their street cars. After the first year or two of the 3G the start performance was always at the back of the pack in the price range. Its still considered by most buyer as a Accord + a good value for the money but nothing outstanding.
They might want to look at Hyundai on how to build a high end product line. Specific RWD platform V8 engine with a V8R performance motor at the top just like the other players have.. Hyundai/Kia will have better luck fighting off the economy car stereotype because they used a clean sheet of paper to build a car more in tune to what buyers are looking for.
The Genesis is out selling the TL & the Equus which starts at $61K & can run up to $70K is outselling the RLX. Was a time you could not give a Hunyadi away but the looked ahead & saw where they needed to go. Pretty much copying the Lexus marketing plan. Their sub KIA just launched the K900 V8 starting at $60K
They might want to look at Hyundai on how to build a high end product line. Specific RWD platform V8 engine with a V8R performance motor at the top just like the other players have.. Hyundai/Kia will have better luck fighting off the economy car stereotype because they used a clean sheet of paper to build a car more in tune to what buyers are looking for.
The Genesis is out selling the TL & the Equus which starts at $61K & can run up to $70K is outselling the RLX. Was a time you could not give a Hunyadi away but the looked ahead & saw where they needed to go. Pretty much copying the Lexus marketing plan. Their sub KIA just launched the K900 V8 starting at $60K
Everyone knows about RWD + V8. Honda doesn't really look at just Hyundai really. Honda has chosen not to pursue that route, and that's the way it is. It's too bad for some of us. With that said, I would not want Honda to follow HYundai at all. That would been overestimating power figures, stating false EPA figures, and, lack of fine tuning which separates a good car (Hyundai) from an excellent car (BMW).
Actually, not that it matters much, but for 2014, the RLX (1178 units YTD) is outselling Equus (918 units YTD).
04-08-2014, 05:56 PM
#227
2G TLX-S
^^^^^
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
04-08-2014, 07:14 PM
#228
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I think the whole performance thing @ Acura is pretty much limited to this web site & a small hand full of the faithful. I expect except for George & Justin almost no one has ever driven on a track. The rest prefer to spec race & the few who actually do a run were greatly disappointed they could come no where near the numbers from a few magazines. I asked one of my favorite “performance” oriented debate partners if he had run his 6MT SHAWD & he said no he was happy with the magazine reports & did not see the need to try it for himself.
Thing is that attitude covers about 99.9% of the 4G drivers. As a point of interest take a look at Drag Times.Com, not so much for the numbers which are not good, but for the number of people from each of the brands that we talk about that actually participate. BMW has 269 entries with the 335 alone, Audi S4 117 + all there other cars, MB hundreds spread out over regular & AMG lines while the TL has exactly 22 entries going back to 2004. Of those 22 entries 3 are 4G the other 19 are 3G.
For real live personal participation in motor sports BMW/MB are very much the Chevy/Ford of the imports & Acura is among the missing.. Large numbers of men & women are getting out on the weekend to see what their cars can do without legal restraints but despite all the huffing & puffing here the posters here are not among them.
I think Honda is aware that as long as they have good advertisements creating some image with the most powerful Acura yet punch line, the general customer base really does not care about the actual real life performance of the cars.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-08-2014 at 07:24 PM.
04-08-2014, 07:35 PM
#229
^^^^^
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
Some of the fastest laps in the Formula 1 History still standing today, where performed with a Honda/Williams Formula 1 race car (Formula 1 is the ultimate racing event in the world)
04-08-2014, 09:35 PM
#230
That's about 32 years ago & 4cars said you can't live in the past. I think the whole performance thing @ Acura is pretty much limited to this web site & a small hand full of the faithful. I expect except for George & Justin almost no one has ever driven on a track. The rest prefer to spec race & the few who actually do a run were greatly disappointed they could come no where near the numbers from a few magazines.
I asked one of my favorite “performance” oriented debate partners if he had run his 6MT SHAWD & he said no he was happy with the magazine reports & did not see the need to try it for himself.
Thing is that attitude covers about 99.9% of the 4G drivers. As a point of interest take a look at Drag Times.Com, not so much for the numbers which are not good, but for the number of people from each of the brands that we talk about that actually participate. BMW has 269 entries with the 335 alone, Audi S4 117 + all there other cars, MB hundreds spread out over regular & AMG lines while the TL has exactly 22 entries going back to 2004. Of those 22 entries 3 are 4G the other 19 are 3G.
For real live personal participation in motor sports BMW/MB are very much the Chevy/Ford of the imports & Acura is among the missing.. Large numbers of men & women are getting out on the weekend to see what their cars can do without legal restraints but despite all the huffing & puffing here the posters here are not among them.
I think Honda is aware that as long as they have good advertisements creating some image with the most powerful Acura yet punch line, the general customer base really does not care about the actual real life performance of the cars.
I think the whole performance thing @ Acura is pretty much limited to this web site & a small hand full of the faithful. I expect except for George & Justin almost no one has ever driven on a track. The rest prefer to spec race & the few who actually do a run were greatly disappointed they could come no where near the numbers from a few magazines. I asked one of my favorite “performance” oriented debate partners if he had run his 6MT SHAWD & he said no he was happy with the magazine reports & did not see the need to try it for himself.
Thing is that attitude covers about 99.9% of the 4G drivers. As a point of interest take a look at Drag Times.Com, not so much for the numbers which are not good, but for the number of people from each of the brands that we talk about that actually participate. BMW has 269 entries with the 335 alone, Audi S4 117 + all there other cars, MB hundreds spread out over regular & AMG lines while the TL has exactly 22 entries going back to 2004. Of those 22 entries 3 are 4G the other 19 are 3G.
For real live personal participation in motor sports BMW/MB are very much the Chevy/Ford of the imports & Acura is among the missing.. Large numbers of men & women are getting out on the weekend to see what their cars can do without legal restraints but despite all the huffing & puffing here the posters here are not among them.
I think Honda is aware that as long as they have good advertisements creating some image with the most powerful Acura yet punch line, the general customer base really does not care about the actual real life performance of the cars.
How much more of a performance oriented car do you think the 328 or C300 is over any TL? All those sales really equals people lined up at the track, ya ok. I would say the same percentage of people among most cars have the same position.
Certainly this post leaves for a lot of defining to be done like what is performance oriented in terms of a car or a person? My guess that according to you it means I appreciate performance less because I don't have the desire to beat on my car in a controlled environment or something, is that right?
FWIW, I do have torque vectoring on my rear axle and manual so of those looking for a performance oriented luxury mid size sedan, I would say there are those who are better, mostly because of more raw power which I did not find compelling enough and at an attractive enough price in a luxury mid but I would also say, I could have done a lot worse.
Furthermore, my cars are garaged and meticulously maintained, with excessively low mileage and while occasionally pushed and enjoyed, I don't beat them or mod them, treated more as collectibles, not toys. Everyone has their preferences, I take that away from none but that doesn't mean I can't notice the difference or enjoy it over another car or the same as anybody else. Last I checked lots of people relied on magazine reviews for intel, it's not like the dealership has a track in the back or something, even at MB and BMW.
What anyone typically finds out about their car with regards to performance is usually what they read and what they experience after owning, not a TV commercial or some ad. Of course, there are always test drives but that doesn't say much with regards to track and some have the luxury of someone they know having it but for the most part, that is usually it. Most rely on that sort of thing but doesn't necessarily mean they care any less or are less performance oriented because they don't need to validate it or their purchase, themselves, or something related. So not sure what applies here except that Acura doesn't attract many track nuts which goes back to what we have said about the brand and the hypothetical TLX model, people can't buy what isn't offered. Acura hasn't attracted that since they ditched the boy racer models and started falling behind the acceleration curve, another reason for the variation as opposed to against.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-08-2014 at 09:48 PM.
04-08-2014, 09:59 PM
#231
1991 is the past, about 23 years worth. BTW variable valve time was not even new in 1991. Just doing it by computer control was. I had mechanical variable valve timing on my race cars back in the early 1960's.
Its was available back as far as I can remember. Nice to see Honda caught up with the rest of the world with DI. Looks like they can eventually move forward. Major advance in 1991 next major advance 2014.
Its was available back as far as I can remember. Nice to see Honda caught up with the rest of the world with DI. Looks like they can eventually move forward. Major advance in 1991 next major advance 2014.
Developed by Giovanni Torazza in the late 1960s, the system used hydraulic pressure to vary the fulcrum of the cam followers (US Patent 3,641,988). The hydraulic pressure changed according to engine speed and intake pressure. The typical opening variation was 37%.
Just out of curiosity - Kevin which design where you using if I may ask.
04-09-2014, 07:46 AM
#232
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If the 310HP V6 engine in the RLX is any indication of what is coming in the TLX, then I can tell you that rev in the commercial is pretty spot on. If you've ever had the opportunity to "push" an RLX, it goes, and goes with a nice meaty snarl unlike any Acura/Honda I've ever driven.
You're not going to win many drag races, but when you need the power, it is there. I've said this somewhere else, but I'll repeat: I have to pass cars sometimes, on a Virginia secondary road. The first couple of times I did that with the RLX, I was very surprised.
In the time I thought I'd take, to hit 60 or so, I looked down and I was at 90.
It's surprising. I think that this motor in the TLX will be enough for most of us, although all of us hot shoes will be looking for a "GT" variant of some kind. :-)
The Taurus is even worse. It's disgracefully large considering the paucity of interior space.
And it's fine they give you all that power for the LE version, but it's badly controlled and in an all-out, extended, high performance situation all you're doing is bluing and burning to cord the big tires they give you.
Looks good on paper, but the driving thereof is not fun.
I still think sales of the 377hp RLX Hybrid will give a good indication for the markets acceptance of a near or greater than $60K Acura.
They would never have been able to sell a large volume of any variant of the Legend/RLX.
The enthusiast reception of the RLX SH-AWD will be interesting to see, but the sales won't be a reflection of the enthusiasm.
This is just a very odd vehicle.
If you get the opportunity, stick your head under the front end and tell us why they designed a suspension like that for this kind of car. :-) It's awesome, but very strange and hard to understand why they'd put that kind of money into the suspension of this kind of car.
Multiple ball joints, reactive shocks, multi-piece A arms made of different more than one kind of metal....
Just all very strange.
04-09-2014, 07:52 AM
#233
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0_o
LOL.... We're out here. I've had a TL 6-6 SH-AWD *and* an RLX on the track, and I held onto my K20A(*)-powered ITR '00 #110 for far longer than was logical.
Thanks very much for posting so thoughtfully. Most of your post...I "get it."
04-09-2014, 09:23 AM
#234
Race Director
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holy ego's
04-09-2014, 09:35 AM
#235
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Fiat was the first auto manufacturer to patent a functional automotive variable valve timing system which included variable lift.
Developed by Giovanni Torazza in the late 1960s, the system used hydraulic pressure to vary the fulcrum of the cam followers (US Patent 3,641,988). The hydraulic pressure changed according to engine speed and intake pressure. The typical opening variation was 37%.
Just out of curiosity - Kevin which design where you using if I may ask.
Developed by Giovanni Torazza in the late 1960s, the system used hydraulic pressure to vary the fulcrum of the cam followers (US Patent 3,641,988). The hydraulic pressure changed according to engine speed and intake pressure. The typical opening variation was 37%.
Just out of curiosity - Kevin which design where you using if I may ask.
Nice for Fiat but the concept goes back to 19th century steam engines. Also think “Double Vanos” the BMW system for both cams, intake & exhaust pre-dated the V-Tec upgrade for both intake & exhaust valves. Guess you can Goggle that.
Can’t remember who made it - Iskenderian, Crane, CompCams but it was a very simple system that took some work to dial in. Was a special timing chain set where the large sprocket that mounts to the cam had a open slider with a spring & a stop. At rest the cam was at full retard to improve low end response as the RPM’s increased the slider compressed a spring allowing the cam to slowly advance for top end performance.
It was adjusted by changing the spring rate & making the slot longer or shorter with a locking plate.
It enabled you to use a somewhat larger cam then the engine would normally take without killing low end torque.
BTW I did show & tell but you ignored my question about what cars you own & drive. Did you take my survey?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-09-2014 at 09:37 AM.
04-09-2014, 11:33 AM
#236
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^^^^^
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
Unfortunately, when Honda re-entered F1, back in 2006, as a full blown race team, it's F1 cars weren't competitive and weren't reliable enough to finish many races.
Eventually, after only 3 seasons, the Honda team withdrew from Formula 1 in disappointment.
Honda was very successful back in the 80's and the 90's, as an turbo-V6 engine supplier; but wasn't successful at all in Formula 1 back in the 2000's, as a factory race team.
That's about 32 years ago & 4cars said you can't live in the past. I think the whole performance thing @ Acura is pretty much limited to this web site & a small hand full of the faithful. I expect except for George & Justin almost no one has ever driven on a track. The rest prefer to spec race & the few who actually do a run were greatly disappointed they could come no where near the numbers from a few magazines.
I asked one of my favorite “performance” oriented debate partners if he had run his 6MT SHAWD & he said no he was happy with the magazine reports & did not see the need to try it for himself.
Thing is that attitude covers about 99.9% of the 4G drivers. As a point of interest take a look at Drag Times.Com, not so much for the numbers which are not good, but for the number of people from each of the brands that we talk about that actually participate. BMW has 269 entries with the 335 alone, Audi S4 117 + all there other cars, MB hundreds spread out over regular & AMG lines while the TL has exactly 22 entries going back to 2004. Of those 22 entries 3 are 4G the other 19 are 3G.
For real live personal participation in motor sports BMW/MB are very much the Chevy/Ford of the imports & Acura is among the missing.. Large numbers of men & women are getting out on the weekend to see what their cars can do without legal restraints but despite all the huffing & puffing here the posters here are not among them.
I think Honda is aware that as long as they have good advertisements creating some image with the most powerful Acura yet punch line, the general customer base really does not care about the actual real life performance of the cars.
I think the whole performance thing @ Acura is pretty much limited to this web site & a small hand full of the faithful. I expect except for George & Justin almost no one has ever driven on a track. The rest prefer to spec race & the few who actually do a run were greatly disappointed they could come no where near the numbers from a few magazines. I asked one of my favorite “performance” oriented debate partners if he had run his 6MT SHAWD & he said no he was happy with the magazine reports & did not see the need to try it for himself.
Thing is that attitude covers about 99.9% of the 4G drivers. As a point of interest take a look at Drag Times.Com, not so much for the numbers which are not good, but for the number of people from each of the brands that we talk about that actually participate. BMW has 269 entries with the 335 alone, Audi S4 117 + all there other cars, MB hundreds spread out over regular & AMG lines while the TL has exactly 22 entries going back to 2004. Of those 22 entries 3 are 4G the other 19 are 3G.
For real live personal participation in motor sports BMW/MB are very much the Chevy/Ford of the imports & Acura is among the missing.. Large numbers of men & women are getting out on the weekend to see what their cars can do without legal restraints but despite all the huffing & puffing here the posters here are not among them.
I think Honda is aware that as long as they have good advertisements creating some image with the most powerful Acura yet punch line, the general customer base really does not care about the actual real life performance of the cars.
6MT SH-AWD TL is nice. But it's no RS4, AMG's, M's, etc. I don't think what you said is at all surprising....the people who buy those RS's, M's, AMG's most likely are into cars, and have the money to go track their cars often. On the other hand, the folks who buy a TL is probably more interested in the car's value, performance, features, and ride comfort. They view the car more of a family car than a track car.
And what you said is pretty much in line with what I have been saying - Acura is lacking sporty cars. There's nothing in their line up that competes with RS's, AMG's, M's, F's, etc. You can't sell what you don't have. And certainly, people can't race cars that are not available (i.e. TLX twin turbo).
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BEAR-AvHistory (04-09-2014)
04-09-2014, 12:05 PM
#237
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Winstrolvtec I did not name you or single you out but since you posted I do think you are typical of the people who by a TL while the Boy Racer (Thank God) in me is more representative of people who buy 135/335’s/G37’s/Audi S & AMG’s.
What I was trying to demonstrate with the Drag Times comment northing more then their a much more active hands on base at BMW as opposed to the TL base which this site represents. Regardless of the sales disparity now back in 2004-2006 era they were knocking 50/60K TL’s a year & was the hot sales ticket in the price range. Still only 22 performance related entries over about a 10 year period covering the height of TL popularity.
Its not good its not bad, no value judgment being made, its just what is. Its also how I rate responses or comments, fair or not, on performance matters. I don’t think any of us are at the level of the pro & semi pro drivers that do the magazine & vid testing of these cars. I am much more interested in how the average Joe does with the car. But when someone waxes eloquent about a cars handling who has never come close to its capabilities or the competitors abilities I have to take it with a grain of salt, because they are just repeating someone else's experience. Magazine numbers are nice but when no one can duplicate them or even come close its hard to take them seriously.
You can go to the “race” section here to see all the people who thought based on C&D numbers that they had a 13 second car only to find out that mid 14’s was a good run.
I would tend to put more value in a response/comment about the TL from George or Justin than someone with just magazine level knowledge, that’s just me. They have been there, done that & have the tee shirt.
Paints dry time to drill some more holes.
What I was trying to demonstrate with the Drag Times comment northing more then their a much more active hands on base at BMW as opposed to the TL base which this site represents. Regardless of the sales disparity now back in 2004-2006 era they were knocking 50/60K TL’s a year & was the hot sales ticket in the price range. Still only 22 performance related entries over about a 10 year period covering the height of TL popularity.
Its not good its not bad, no value judgment being made, its just what is. Its also how I rate responses or comments, fair or not, on performance matters. I don’t think any of us are at the level of the pro & semi pro drivers that do the magazine & vid testing of these cars. I am much more interested in how the average Joe does with the car. But when someone waxes eloquent about a cars handling who has never come close to its capabilities or the competitors abilities I have to take it with a grain of salt, because they are just repeating someone else's experience. Magazine numbers are nice but when no one can duplicate them or even come close its hard to take them seriously.
You can go to the “race” section here to see all the people who thought based on C&D numbers that they had a 13 second car only to find out that mid 14’s was a good run.
I would tend to put more value in a response/comment about the TL from George or Justin than someone with just magazine level knowledge, that’s just me. They have been there, done that & have the tee shirt.
Paints dry time to drill some more holes.
04-09-2014, 12:41 PM
#238
I know there is still a huge 3G following in that department, maybe they are just modest about it or maybe the numbers aren't worth sharing. On the other hand, I have seen the 3G make great gains on minimal investments and tuning. FWD is hard to run so we have seen our share of so called underachievers but then they are those who surprise you. I think it comes down to what anyone's impressions are regarding the capabilities of the car in the fist place.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-09-2014 at 12:43 PM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (04-09-2014)
04-09-2014, 01:17 PM
#239
Winstrolvtec I did not name you or single you out but since you posted I do think you are typical of the people who by a TL while the Boy Racer (Thank God) in me is more representative of people who buy 135/335’s/G37’s/Audi S & AMG’s.
What I was trying to demonstrate with the Drag Times comment northing more then their a much more active hands on base at BMW as opposed to the TL base which this site represents. Regardless of the sales disparity now back in 2004-2006 era they were knocking 50/60K TL’s a year & was the hot sales ticket in the price range. Still only 22 performance related entries over about a 10 year period covering the height of TL popularity.
Its not good its not bad, no value judgment being made, its just what is. Its also how I rate responses or comments, fair or not, on performance matters. I don’t think any of us are at the level of the pro & semi pro drivers that do the magazine & vid testing of these cars. I am much more interested in how the average Joe does with the car. But when someone waxes eloquent about a cars handling who has never come close to its capabilities or the competitors abilities I have to take it with a grain of salt, because they are just repeating someone else's experience. Magazine numbers are nice but when no one can duplicate them or even come close its hard to take them seriously.
You can go to the “race” section here to see all the people who thought based on C&D numbers that they had a 13 second car only to find out that mid 14’s was a good run.
I would tend to put more value in a response/comment about the TL from George or Justin than someone with just magazine level knowledge, that’s just me. They have been there, done that & have the tee shirt.
Paints dry time to drill some more holes.
What I was trying to demonstrate with the Drag Times comment northing more then their a much more active hands on base at BMW as opposed to the TL base which this site represents. Regardless of the sales disparity now back in 2004-2006 era they were knocking 50/60K TL’s a year & was the hot sales ticket in the price range. Still only 22 performance related entries over about a 10 year period covering the height of TL popularity.
Its not good its not bad, no value judgment being made, its just what is. Its also how I rate responses or comments, fair or not, on performance matters. I don’t think any of us are at the level of the pro & semi pro drivers that do the magazine & vid testing of these cars. I am much more interested in how the average Joe does with the car. But when someone waxes eloquent about a cars handling who has never come close to its capabilities or the competitors abilities I have to take it with a grain of salt, because they are just repeating someone else's experience. Magazine numbers are nice but when no one can duplicate them or even come close its hard to take them seriously.
You can go to the “race” section here to see all the people who thought based on C&D numbers that they had a 13 second car only to find out that mid 14’s was a good run.
I would tend to put more value in a response/comment about the TL from George or Justin than someone with just magazine level knowledge, that’s just me. They have been there, done that & have the tee shirt.
Paints dry time to drill some more holes.
Kind of the same as stated above, we know the 3G was popular in this regard so I don't know if that is a great example and there are plenty of them out there and active in the boards and local street scenes, why not more at drag times, I'm not sure. Same reasons and possibilities as above I guess.
Where I draw the line is that the argument that average joe can't achieve this or that, can be made with any car, not just a TL. The data is there for anyone to cherry pick. Comes down to what the buyer values really. A mid 13 second car out the lot that is easily tunable is great, as is one of the best handling luxury mid size sedans but does no one any good if they don't completely use either that way, I agree. So that has to be brought into the shopping and buying considerations but you need some kind of baseline nonetheless, you still want an idea of what you're getting in that regard and I think the magazines are good for that, not to hang on every tenth or so.
FWIW, I typically look at the more real world measures or the ones that better translate such as trap and 5-60 and a little 0-60 as well. Not getting into it because you know the value of these numbers and how they apply, would also like mid range pulls but many don't do them and often in the highest gears when they do, so they have less value IMO. Think these paint a good idea of how cars compare for everyday use and the occasional heavy foot or play time.
Again, I care about performance comparisons as a baseline and not the deciding factor necessarily, some want the fastest car they can get in a straight line period or in what they like, tunability, etc. I wan't balance for what I like in a car, and would still take a manual if it meant the car was slower which is usually the case today.
However, with regards to the 4G, it's system actually makes it easier for the average person to get in and better take advantage of it's handling capabilities than other formats and I can quote at least a few examples of this if need be but based on the nature of it, that makes sense. Safe bet is that 90% of pros, amateurs and average jims will say this, while the flip side of that is the acceleration numbers are likely harder to duplicate because of the FWD basis and variable nature of the system and that it is a manual but it's been replicated enough for me to say it's possible, just not very easy or harder than, I think there is a difference, but again, that's why we also have traps and 5-60, while not perfect, take a lot of the driver out of the equation. Also think every car has some of this going on, in some capacity, one way or another, if we really wanted to get picky about them for whatever reason.
As a side note, no offense with the "track nuts" or the needing to validate their car or purchase wording, those are not necessarily bad things IMO, just how I chose to illustrate them for the sake of the discussion.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-09-2014 at 01:32 PM.
04-09-2014, 01:26 PM
#240
Goggle with copy & paste is a wonderful thing isn't it?
Nice for Fiat but the concept goes back to 19th century steam engines. Also think “Double Vanos” the BMW system for both cams, intake & exhaust pre-dated the V-Tec upgrade for both intake & exhaust valves. Guess you can Goggle that.
Can’t remember who made it - Iskenderian, Crane, CompCams but it was a very simple system that took some work to dial in. Was a special timing chain set where the large sprocket that mounts to the cam had a open slider with a spring & a stop. At rest the cam was at full retard to improve low end response as the RPM’s increased the slider compressed a spring allowing the cam to slowly advance for top end performance.
It was adjusted by changing the spring rate & making the slot longer or shorter with a locking plate.
It enabled you to use a somewhat larger cam then the engine would normally take without killing low end torque.
BTW I did show & tell but you ignored my question about what cars you own & drive. Did you take my survey?
Nice for Fiat but the concept goes back to 19th century steam engines. Also think “Double Vanos” the BMW system for both cams, intake & exhaust pre-dated the V-Tec upgrade for both intake & exhaust valves. Guess you can Goggle that.
Can’t remember who made it - Iskenderian, Crane, CompCams but it was a very simple system that took some work to dial in. Was a special timing chain set where the large sprocket that mounts to the cam had a open slider with a spring & a stop. At rest the cam was at full retard to improve low end response as the RPM’s increased the slider compressed a spring allowing the cam to slowly advance for top end performance.
It was adjusted by changing the spring rate & making the slot longer or shorter with a locking plate.
It enabled you to use a somewhat larger cam then the engine would normally take without killing low end torque.
BTW I did show & tell but you ignored my question about what cars you own & drive. Did you take my survey?
Kevin, you should know (Wikipedia), you add you’re on flair to it!!
Kevin, this thread is about a TLX V6 SH-AWD Twin Turbo suggested 400 - 425 hp with around 400 lbs. - Torque which would be a nice performance car without a supercar price tag. Most likely could be used as a reliable daily driver or beyond for individuals that like track fun. I know that you are against a concept like this, which is fine for me. To Each his Own, Kevin
Beside the point, I'm not interested to boost about all the cars I acquired in a half a Century of being behind the wheel and raced cars as well. The reason why I'm not interested is exactly what my forum name states mylove4cars and not because wealth might give an individual the opportunity to acquire exotic cars. I might have been lucky that I was able to do so; nevertheless the harder I work the luckier I get.
I'm a private person and not interested to supply a list to this forum with all the cars I owned. This might be important for you, not for me.
Sometime ago I purchased a MDX for my daughter which she likes very much; I liked the MDX as well, so down the road I purchased a TL SH-AWD for me, I like the car as a daily driver. From a personal perspective I would have liked a little more power. Looking at the birth of the TLX I thought the basis was there for Acura to make a step-up in their offerings and it would be nice to see a TLX SH-AWD V6 TT available to the public. That’s all what this is about, no more no less.
Btw. Yes, I participated to your poll.